for dinner through the meal and if they need be i'm asking for his name a bad feelings towards civil war in south africa is inevitable. it. was said it. was there any chong not be in the total viewer and to prove it to. me. this is max kaiser this is the kaiser report you know over the years i've talked to you about the in sexualization of the economy where we humans are becoming like

a colony of insects bees or and and that's all enabled by this 5 g. enabled surveillance state pretty cool right catch up on this well everybody knows that there's a surveillance state everywhere and they there is an alleged end to end encryption everywhere on this is protecting you and everybody is moving actually to encrypted messaging and that's what even facebook is trying to do they're getting rid of facebook essentially and they're now and crypted messaging service and telegram groups and all these sort of things that's where everybody's moving so we're going to talk about that 1st i want to talk about. something in this big data economy and this hyper unsexed who has ation sort of a khana me because this was a story it seems like a just a typical normal story but it's quite profound rare moon bear spotted living in korea in no man's land dotted with landmines so that the d.m.z. that little militarized zone between north and south korea where it's

a no man's land nobody goes in there and it is 155 miles long 2 and a half mile wide barrier and it has become an accidental ecological oasis after being left undisturbed for almost 70 years since the korean war of the 1950 s. ended with an armistice and the division of the peninsula and a rare moon bear which was believed extinct was spotted on camera in this is own and the point is that we're going to talk about some of the. otherwise would be extinct creatures including a mosque deer that also lives in the stone and this is the only safe haven is littered with landmines but at least you get to survive. you know mixing d.m.z. with they almost extinct moon bears got my attention i'm really curious now

where this is going so we're near extinct animals living in near extinct land masses or on top of landmines or what's happening so the only thing that is providing ecological survival the only thing that is providing survival for certain creatures that capitalism that growth that people that humans that suburbs that cities would have otherwise annihilated off the face of the earth is an actual war zone is called the d.m.z. the demilitarized zone but actually is a war zone if any human being steps into their their blown in obliterated up on a landmine or shot dead so here this has provided a safe haven where humans cannot go or they will die so this is provided one safe haven for one. species of creature to survive that humans can't go there is like you know that this sense to compare it to our human situation in the surveillance

state there are some humans that live outside of a c.c.t.v. camera there are some humans that don't have a g.p.s. monitor anywhere near them because they might live out in the middle of south dakota or north dakota way out in the one know where is land you know there are very few places like this on earth and this is one of the safe havens and in fact there they mentioned that there is a risk that peace actually happens between north and south korea because if that happens then the d.m.z. goes away and humans can enter and then these creatures get wiped off the face of the earth so tensions are building between these ecosystems some. lighted by post war mind fatigue but it's great for the moon bears if it's good for the moon bears it's good for the musk deer and it's good for the white nights cranes they're also musk deer which live in the mid eastern part of the d.m.z. didn't exist these species are highly likely to have been completely wiped out in

korea that's why they are of high value in preserving internationally you know it's corrupting the space with this ultra surveillance state that people are living in this kind of toxic zoo where they're being observed or the sexualization of us humans that are part of nation states to have gone rogue pretty much every single one of the world now is gone bat crazy and but if you happen to be and they are extinct mother bear living on top of a minefield you're in luck exactly but that's kind of like. a metaphor for the entire economy is here you have the utter surveillance state a lot of people have therefore long lost any knowledge of the moon bear people didn't know it exists must bear it must dear it's the same thing here is like people lost understanding and appreciation of the beauty of privacy of the right to privacy the right to assemble the right to free speech we've lost our 3 understanding of them because we we don't have a d.m.z.

equivalent on line to place to find these near extinct rights like to free the most space in the freedom to assemble or in extremely dangerous landscapes in places outside of the scope of the surveillance industrial complex where some humans huddle. and scrape to survive but they're free starring mel gibson yeah but at some point those those people are targeted as suspicious because if you walk through the airport the facial recognition is looking at you and if they can identify your twitter handle your facebook page your you know any information. nation on a google search that automatically triggered as you walk through the airport they say this person knows how to maintain their privacy and hasn't traded it for efficiency because again that these moon bear exists because there is no growth at all allowed in that area no humans can enter it here millions of people uploaded

photos to the ever app then the company used them to develop facial recognition tools the app developers were not clear about their intentions when every user said i believe it's an huge invasion of privacy let me explain you know we have massive distributed computing networks you know i remember back in the search for intelligent extraterrestrial intelligence the seti project which you were you donated your c.p.u. power to allow this massive parallel computing project to go out into the universe and find intelligent. extraterrestrial intelligence you know the mass surveillance state means we are all donating our conscious minds to this massive surveillance network and we're all living in our subconscious or unconscious minds and that's the end sexualization of humans so you know answer b s they're not consciously thinking oh i got had our a high right now make some money johnny i'll see you at the bar later now they're on a sub conscious unconscious level they're just performing their d.n.a.

specific unconscious in voluntarily controlled life their destiny as insects humans they had a conscious mind and they used to talk to each other and communicate and it was all about hey we come from a divine place and it's pretty cool because we're software but we're trading that now for fake security so that we can unconsciously just go from cradle to grave doing stuff that we're unaware of to serve a master that we never see well ok the rare moon bear is cuddly and sweet and fuzzy and we all see these credibly sweet little fuzzy animals well this is however pitched it we're such such consumers we want efficiency we want it now. right so this is how the dystopian reality behind this cuddly sweet app make memories that's the slogan on the website for the photo storage app ever accompanied by a cursive logo and an example album titled weekend with grandpa everything about

evers branding is warm and fuzzy about sharing your best moments while freeing up space on your phone what isn't obvious on evers' website or app is that the photos people share are used to train the company's facial recognition system and that ever then offers to sell that technology to private companies law enforcement and the military and so they have a separate web site ever is your app but they have a separate website called ever ai which is a pitch to law enforcement intelligence agencies and how to identify they promised that they can identify an individual that is walking through a video in a scene at a mall or something like. view starring warren beatty circa 1960 whatever you know it's not about making memories it's about replacing memories yes right let us fake

state produced centrally busy located prison industrial complex memories so that you can no longer exist as a free willed individual but become part of our dystopian sexualized ant colony thank you have a nice day. yeah and they say they have 13000000000 photos and videos and that they can compare this anybody you need anybody law enforcement needs who you know right now are like but if you did nothing wrong you have nothing to hide and the f.b.i. are good guys in the cia good guys and we love our good guys but what if china takes over the world and they don't like you and living in wyoming and they like they want to. eradicate every wyoming person to be the bearer of bad it is but you know the fact is that a guy who is driving this ai is self-aware ai is evolving the robots are winning anyone who resists and thinks that there's a bunch of intelligent humans behind this to create a more perfect state of

a come to me and live in community is severely deluded the robots are now openly attacking us and when i saw that video of a chimp on instagram browsing around looking for dates i realized look all the chimp out to do is figure out how to hire a lawyer and now it's going to be chimps vs robots humans are gone humans are extinct we're going to enter a chip vs robot dystopian nightmare and it's happening now but like i said at the beginning the d.m.z. there like the fact that if peace breaks out then these poor rare moon bearers are . there they're no longer going to exist but ever ai also promises prospective military clients that it can enhance the survey events capabilities and identify and act on threat the sun moon bear some of those furbies remember those their little 1st generation generated kids' toys that spied on kids as some are being invaded by an army of ai furby and they're coming into our home and they're

stealing our brains anyway you know us the consumer you're isolated neoliberalism in our economy has isolated you in your bedroom it's too expensive to even leave your only source of solace is to go online and look at photos of other people to know that other people are out there thus giving ai the intelligence to identify and know you and understand and predict where humans are going to do in certain situations and thus you know you're you're not you're not inside the d.m.z. you're outside and that's bad luck in this situation. you know when i was a kid i was a lot simpler way just sniffed globe all right well we're going to take a break and when we come back much mark i'm going away.

with more make this manufactured consent to public wealth. when the ruling closest to protect themselves. with the famous. nor middle of the room.

welcome back to the kaiser report i'm ask iser time editor day harry help and he's a cryptographer are working on all sorts of crypto stuff including nam and why am i going to talk about right now barry welcome hey thanks for having me here i'm a big fan of the show and i'm a long term study that's awesome you know thanks for running over here all the construction downstairs a bit of a you know a. sprint to get here but thanks so much so let's talk about nim the cia

just tweeted out a link to their tour site to communicate with them on the dark web so what is tor what is the dark web in there and then what is new because according to something i'm reading here nim the goal of nim is to anonymize the world yes so when the internet was 1st started it was essentially a government research project and it didn't really have any like security or privacy or encryption but that didn't stop people from using it for all sorts of crazy things and when like darpa which is the defense advanced research projects agency realized that you know the un encrypt internet wasn't particularly good for the world good for them they forced the internet to the sort of military internet called arpanet which had encrypted years later like a decade later we added encryption to the internet t.o.s.

that like defend our transactions like anyone in the world just couldn't see them but the problem is that even with that basically any sort of outside observer anyone who's like watching the internet which could be the n.s.a. could be the cia could be a government could be a well funded company if you're into big coin it could be chain analysis they can just watch the network level transactions who's sending a packet to who and they can use that to figure out who's top. to who and then they can d.n.r. mys them figure out who they are what they're doing and do whatever they want to do with them right now i've heard of tor think i've used or once or twice so what is tor and wise in him better yes so sure is interesting because it started out as a navy research project from what was called the event by paul cyber sent from the naval research lab and paul said how is it i can encrypt and hide like my packet going to another packet and so we popped through like a kind of hops of routers and that's called onion encrypt because each moment

packets encrypted it's d. encrypted and like the onion layers are being stripped out well that's like good and effective on some level anyone who watches the input to the tour network and the output to the tor network can essentially still do what's called traffic analysis correlations between the inputs and outputs and figure out who's talking to who can get that metadata and d.n.a. on a miser and that's even in the tour so the tour is like a really great product if your enemy is like the government of in a swale the government of iran some government which can't see the entire internet or some company which you only see a small portion of the internet but if you're like the u.s. government the n.s.a. chain analysis you can probably monitor the entire internet and so this is all there design call mix networking which just 2 things 3 if you think about it that tor doesn't do 1st it mixes the packets so it's not like you get all the packets they gather and you like randomised we shuffle them like

a deck of cards and then the next thing you do is you hold the packets back so you like destroy the timing information and then if there's not enough like real packets coming through you send fake packets dummy packets and these like 3 things combine destroyed completely the pattern of the sort of packets being sent and that somehow tor doesn't do and therefore. even roger dingle dean from tour would admit that for message based transactions which are asynchronous like for example you know big point transactions like just doing some peer to peer gossip you're throwing some traffic out there it doesn't really matter exactly when it gets in just to get in pretty soon for those kinds of things there's no doubt that makes networks which were invented by david charm but kind of being pursued by us in a particular manner or better they are the n.s.a. we believe cannot do you know on a miser them and that's i mean of course you know in the long term the arms race

they're going to new stuff we're going to do new stuff but it's amazing that no one else has tackled this problem and the other benefit is that nim does not take grants from the united states government so tor is you know comes from the u.s. government to some extent but it's open source software it's ran by volunteers it takes grants but essentially it's nonprofit doesn't have like incentives to run it and what nym is doing which is really different is that we're basically source saying we can create a network where people are paid to help make other people's traffic private and we think this out so well it's basically we jump in for a site because there's a couple of things that come to mind so. you can work through this for me a little bit so existing players in the market like narrow and z. cash i believe you can comment on that why this could be perceived as a an improvement on that also comment on and encryption messaging apps like what's app and how does this possibly an improvement or not improvement on that so

let's start with an arrow in z. cache is it an improvement potentially yeah so like z. cashman arrow are all basically encrypting making private the block chain itself but the thing is big corn and all sorts of copper currencies or more then the block chain right when you want to talk you know sin the bitcoin transaction using a peer to peer broadcast on the network level so. even if you use like 0 knowledge proofs and use ring signatures like the narrower ever it is on the chain itself that peer to peer traffic is actually capturable recordable. by any enemy who's watching the network and anonymize and him and him. it's. like the chain is level one and we're like beneath the chain we're handling the network traffic just like tor or v.p.n. ok so therefore what you could make a similar comment exactly that all the same doesn't really matter how much

encrypted you use if you're using the internet without some network level protection you know any adversary can watch those packets streaming through and they don't have to interfere and they can just watch them passively capture them and go back and look look at that data and the d.n.a. on a miser right while the history of bit coin comes from the cypherpunk movement when they were very concerned about. you know anonymity and so this is kind of a it's interesting that now the big quakes reaching kind of institutional acceptance there's that new wave of cypherpunks almost you could say that are looking to make a massive leap of improvement in terms of and and i'm izing the transactions in the communication so with is that a fair statement yeah like what you're seeing with bitcoin now the addition of snorre signatures all these new technologies that slowly slowly between itself is becoming more private. more more people or where it's like it's actually completely crazy like transfer money and leave your transfers in

a permanent immutable log like no business would do that no person who's doing anything that they might not want the entire planet to know would do that but these technologies can be added to virtual currency can be added to bitcoin so that you know so now i'm here talking who's a friend of our show you know we're one of the 1st to interview him going back to 2011 and we were at the praga venton 2011 that i mean i hosted he's and he's in by . in the project and he calls a star quality to point out our quad was a project of. recently so. amy air is that is that as accurate as this is that the team kind of behind this moving this forward so amir is one of my oldest friends the space he gave me my 1st big coin you know when he was a young man he was living in a squat in spain of a fatality was at that point nothing to fear him just like a writer from because magazine working with much of spanish hackers and european hackers to make dark wallet you know i'm a researcher of a ph d.

in machine learning so therefore i'm very aware of traffic house and surveillance and when i saw he was building this kind of wall at the height of these really strong privacy guarantees it was really popular like an amazing video and whatnot lots of followers i said we got to go talk to this guy and i actually was hoping to recruit him to be a ph d. student instead he like went off to syria to fight isis and i'm proud of him by the same point i still think there's need and i really enjoy working and i hope amir can pull this off there's real need for a user friendly privacy wallet and i think amir has the integrity and vision to pull that off the way to think about nim in the mix that is just like you know you have a big point in your wallets there's also the network between them and them is actually a generic infrastructure which is in the background in the behind let's say a wallet and for example you know the chain it's protecting that network but you

can actually you know the whole idea is not just to focus on wallets but also you know you want to be anonymous you want as many people using something as possible that's one of the reasons why tor kind of works or is lots of users who knows of a tory someone using tor as a cia agent and human rights activists we don't know and what we want to do with our mix network is a similar thing we incentivize people to throw in as much traffic as possible so we just don't want just the wallet we want you know we were. messaging traffic we would like you know maybe even v.p.n. kind of traffic all sorts of traffic that basically provide greater privacy for the crypto currency transactions so it's like a win win the problem is the real fundamental design were based on his base from academic research which was funded by the european commission to build like an alternative to tor for europe after the snowden revelations and the chief scientist of the project george denise this he's a really really close friend an amazing guy one of the best privacy has technologist ever but fact of matter is you know we couldn't get enough funding to

keep him and he has other start up recently just got acquired by facebook so now he's working on building facebook stable coin irag right that's always a problem isn't it the corporations cream off the the talent and you know it's always a struggle now as far as funding goes you don't have a token i'm assuming so how is that going and what are you working on that well i mean i think what we're we're not quite crowdsourcing funding right right yet we're talking to essentially venture capitalists and venture gobblers are pretty crazy because you know they are effectively the silicon valley venture capitalists are the ones that have built this mass surveillance apparatus you know they're the ones who built facebook the one who's built google not all but quite similar to some bitcoin cryptocurrency i mean he's on the theory him and they have these like really crazy ideas of what they think can succeed when you come to them and you say look you know this is really about values it's about supporting privacy it's about

supporting human freedom you know they're like well you know we like privacy but there's not really a market there don't really want you know we don't anyone wants it we don't really see the business case and the wonderful thing that we've seen about the cryptocurrency is that silicon valley no longer controls all the funding we're currently backed by by nantz which did get the big hackneyed up there privacy and security obviously and what we're seeing. as all these companies and venture capital firms and stuff from overseas or the ones who are like really interested in upping the game on privacy particularly privacy for crypto currency so for me it's like you know silicon valley is over it's game over for them they built google they built facebook there's no more innovation and we need to go big and talk to people all over the world who are involved in crypto currency and just one part of c. for whatever reason they do and get them to store pile in and support these projects we only have a little bit of time before the next big financial crisis and when that happens

going to be too late to build the kinds of privacy and hansen technologies the kinds of freedom and handsome technologies that we need right well certainly my man says deep pockets and these exchanges do have deep pockets so i think you're going to be ok in the funding side so if someone wants to access more information about them how do they do that you can just go to the website name tech not net follow some twitter and project and you know we want to support all privacy unhandsome technologies but we will need your support and we will be crowdfunding probably later in the fall with some big announcements come back for that sounds like a blast you'll be a new video of the party. ok call but it's got to be anonymous say after all your years you're like stealth coat so no one can see you when that's going to do it for this edition of the kaiser report with me max kaiser and stacy herbert like to thank our very special guest the one and only harry help in nimba if you want to catch us on kaiser report it's twitter and so next time.

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