hello and welcome to cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle it was only days ago we were told the u.s. was preparing to strike iran for nonspecific reasons to deter specific threats then the narrative simply disappeared into thin air just exactly what is the trumpet ministrations policy regarding iran and where is trump in all of this. cross talking iran i'm joined by my guest in washington he is a policy analyst at the arab center washington d.c. into the end we have mohammad marandi he's a professor at the university of tehran and in philadelphia we cross to dave lindorff he is an independent journalist with a long experience covering u.s. military as well as founder of the new site this can't be happening dot net or

a german cross rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want i always appreciate mohamed let me go to you 1st in turn on a title in this program nonspecific iran there's been a lot of nonspecific stuff being bandied about a lot of threats maybe a lot of bluffs and a lot of people are nervous a lot of bluster out there so what is the nonspecific threat coming from the country in which you reside in. against the united states what could you define it because nobody in power can define what specifically is going on except for there is a lot of hype go ahead mom and i think the same question that people are asking here as well the united states we hear that. there was something a rocket fire that the u.s. embassy in terms of it was like 3 kilometers away and then within hours iran is accused of carrying out. its by the obvious that. for anyone in teheran that iran

has no motive to do such a thing it doesn't gain anything by doing such a thing and i think the americans knew quite well that it had nothing to the iran with iran and it's probably some sort of like operation carried out by some elements or a cell within isis with so the unseen. but. the mood in tehran is that. and from the very beginning more or less except for some people was that the chance for military conflict has always been very low because i think the iranians. have stated to the americans on numerous occasions that if you strike iran we will strike back very hard and the persian gulf region is a very sensitive region of the oil and gas insulations are very vulnerable and oil and gas insulations will be as well as the anchors will be destroyed and in the crossfire and that would be to

a global economic catastrophe and there is nothing that can attack anyone who sloane over the persian gulf region knows quite well that there is it's absolutely impossible for a few ships or an aircraft carrier to protect such insulation yammer so if the saudis out the americans or any other country helps the americans then they will have to face retaliation from iran so that would lead to an old global economic catastrophe you have a degree in the me go to dave in philadelphia doesn't mean you can't have fantasies and want to live them out i'm thinking of john bolton here i mean can you kind of put into a nutshell what what the administration's policy is towards iran i mean even trump glibly it was a few days ago he said well nothing's happening we don't expect anything to happen can so what was the last 3 or 4 weeks all about dave go ahead in philadelphia. it's pretty hard to figure you know i've been looking at this and scratching my head which isn't good because i don't have any hair you know it leaves marks. you know

trump and so the only thing transparent consistent on is saying that obama made the world's worst deal with erin on the nuclear fuel enrichment agreement. which the u.s. of course has always expanded into you know a huge agreement that iran is supposedly violating the terms of but you know aside from that he's totally inconsistent he's talked about bombing iraq until it doesn't exist he's talked about wanting to strike a great deal with iran you know he's back and forth. and what i think has happened is that he's farmed out his foreign policy to bolton then pompei you and bob bolton is a crazy man who has for years had this ambition to be in charge and i

think he's actually overstepped his authority enormously ordering an aircraft carrier out you know i don't think that was trump that did that so it's a pretty weird way and what is a little scary what is the place of a national security adviser to be ordering aircraft carrier task groups around that i've never heard that i thought he gave advice let's let's go to joe here i mean what is it we're at this rate the name is title is adviser yeah well that's what i'm getting at here let me go to joe in washington you know is there is there any rhyme or reason to this because he could always go back and say the more you confuse your adversaries the more you're it's to your advantage i mean you know the whole nixon madman analogy here i tend to think that's not in play i tend to use the word outsource trump is outsourcing this policy here and basically saying do whatever you want but don't get me into a. because i want to be reelected go ahead joe in washington. i mean obviously the sudden decision has a different approach on iran recently there was more to call sort of of course

additional power between bolton and poor people and others so there was a big push on sanctions obviously is the breaking point the problem there is still communication lines between washington thought on anymore so there was a lot of miscalculations and that sense there was a report from the intelligence that came to to the white house it seems bolton exaggerated the routine intelligence information that came and then i don't think he personally only took the position of his it was endorsed by the white house but he claimed that in the new york times story and then after the things got out of control there was a lot of miscalculations from both sides and trump eventually put some more about us on what i was pushing what is the other thing is that the perspective what what is the other side you said both sides miscalculated what sides are you talking about. iran is definitely not in the red line and how do they do that how did they miscalculate. well little assumptions always in in

to her on the part of the regime she is true to the invasion maybe. they thought there would be more pressure now on them so we thought what happened and the whole sees the rockets and so the arabia so there was some little bit of messages that the iranians feel under sanction under the strain so they've been trying to basically send the message to washington and elsewhere that we can basically they tell you but the at the end of the day both sides cannot go to war in iran the traditional military is weak to face the u.s. they have a big economic crisis also here in washington we are going to go out of the political crisis we have the election coming coming over there they want to protect the troops in iraq they're trying to distort each other so they basically throw it to the logical war with played with the need and it's a this is where we get to do miscalculations not yeah but it seems to me one side

is more proactive in the you have the right think everyone would agree with that i don't see iran starting out with threats what it's doing is reacting it was go back to mohammed in in town it's seems to me that again if you look at what is important to trump obviously the israeli lobby is important to him and donors in the united states as he goes into the election campaign and he always seems to want to bend over backwards for the saudis so he made the israelis and the saudis in some donors happy that's the only thing the kind of logical thing i can draw out of all of this go ahead mahmoud into. yes i think we have different voices coming out of the white house are elected and is based on. a course. sinus speaks of the rapture that. i've seen in american supremacy 2 as a grudge against iran or anyone who's ever opposed american policy i personally.

don't think that iran has miscalculated i think that the strikes carried out by. the whole east in yemen is up our ongoing war in saudi arabia and yemen the saudis are starving the country and. yemen the resistance the government the state the army and the whole these they are becoming more sophisticated in their capability of striking they are the last record was older than him or they would in a letter to a stroke know how to riyadh go go ahead joe jump in go ahead. but i don't i know they would never strike without it under constant would never strike this is very critical the timing it's very clear and this is a subtle iranian message which we understand spoke of what's going on between the 2 but you cannot tell me that that's the hosts on their own that decided one day to strike inside saudi arabia the oil for what what what evidence do you have of that joe what evidence do you have i think that they couldn't have those weapons without

without with those in support 2nd at this level in this moment of tensions between the 2 doesn't come across just the regular regular. regular message of the regular routine operation i mean i cannot conference i will i don't have well i don't have to for sure what i am in any human holding you know when you me when you make an argument evidence is a kind of helpful don't you think dave you want to jump in there in philadelphia go ahead yeah i'm going to say i think that if the iranians have miscalculated to me the miscalculation that the make is when they make you know these. threats against the u.s. you know the you know will destroy your your military whatever you know the have these these set phrases that they're going to get the united states and punish us badly. which maybe they could do maybe not i don't problem with their. don't you

there thinking they are days don't you think in the well let me finish let me finish you know united's head in the united states the american people the american people react very badly to being told that we're going to wipe you out you know and it it hands then i don't think they realize what that hand to the right in in the government to to trump to the republicans in congress and even to many democrats in congress react very badly to these you know over the top threats to the u.s. if you do this we'll do that well and i think it it doesn't it doesn't advance the cause when they do that ok well you know the scene did it set in the same to me and i well i think that's that's for not i care not cringe when i hear that and i think when i the united states does it all of the time it has been in decades of history of making those kind of oh no i'm not an elite now do you saying it's not understandable i can't i'm going to jump in here guys we're going to go to i don't understand after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the run stay

with us. when else so seemed wrong. but all wrong just don't call. me. yet to see palin just come out of. it against me because betrayal. when something you find themselves worlds apart we just of the common ground. the tense situation in venezuela is still all over the news the problem in venezuela is not that socialism has been poorly implemented but that socialism has

been only template for inside venezuela things are different we're going to announce sanctions against the troll venezuela so if you. have a son of a moment who thinks that absent that. data to see on the. moment the focus of the whose story isn't new nixon called in henry kissinger to tell him not be tolerated in latin america. an alternative economic and social system could take hold and therefore the policy would be to make the economy scream so wants now making the economy of venezuela screed. lake says and see it forms part of a high altitude nature reserve. it's one of the

famous to turn into an easy is principal waterway starts its journey. but it can be summed up to the top to bottom like i said and. it runs 300 kilometers from source to mouth and they're out of the $200.00 industrial facilities range to its banks. and your muscle. to do 3 things. i don't like to tell someone to be. room to irrigate scoop of 4000 rice fields and supplies drinking water to 25000000 people. at the most well yes. you can buy so many of us about us.

welcome back across the uk where all things are considered on people about a month we're discussing iran. ok it's go back to joe in washington. after the air aircraft carrier abraham lincoln was sent to the gulf and they've been these numbers were bandying around 120000 troops and then that kind of story fizzled the aircraft carrier still there and now they're talking about 10000 troops need to be sent to the region they're not saying where or why what would 10000 troops to i mean it seems to me this is just a message in what it is them. a message that the white house is sending out because everything is nonspecific it's that's why it's difficult for is a kind of connecting the dots because there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason

except for when it comes to iran domestic domestic politics and in the u.s. domestic politics as well so why is this in the media dribbling this out to us what kind of message we're supposed to come what kind of conclusion are we supposed to come to joe go ahead. and with this should be a specific conclusion as i said this psychological war and some sense they want to show that they are they are fixing their muscles they are serious about what's happening and they want to bring it on basically to let a bit of a political issue to the question table eventually and this is the ultimate goal and trump know what's happening you know the proxy war basically between the u.s. and europe it's not like we came out of nothing. and syria and iraq and yemen you don't want to see it in yemen you'll be a lot of evidence is basically of the organ support the obviously the surviving competition for for influence and that will change they want to bring them back to life again what is what is your evidence for the 2 of them what is your evidence for that show everybody so it's a sound bite i hear all the time but nobody likes to really sit down and give the

evidence i let me go to mohamed here mohamed what is the evidence of that moment in the red you always cut me off i did not look well i mean what was your ideas here to be i mean i'll state my trivial ok go ahead muhammad. i understand joe's argument. the difference between iran and the united states and iran and saudi arabia is that the americans have oxys in the region the saudis have oxys but they think that therefore iran's role in the region is the same and therefore they see your runs allies as proxies and that's simply not the case the reason why iran's allies in the in the region are what they like to call the resistance are so successful is because they have a relationship that is not top to bottom the houthi is don't or have sort of not doesn't get orders from teheran they are fighting their war but they see that you

run eons on their side as the united states and the europeans are hoping the saudis . bring about starvation they see that the only one of the few countries that is signing with them sincerely is the iranians or in the case of syria or iraq or lebanon i have to say the case there is no the issue is not money because the other side doesn't generally want points the other side the saudis the americans have infinitely their wealth is infinitely greater than iran pulled together their resources are infinitely greater but they failed across the border they failed in syria they failed in iraq they failed in that and on the yemen and that's simply in my opinion because these are not iranian proxies because they are people who feel that an unjust head germany has ruled over them for so long and has destroyed their countries and their lives and they are resisting and they see iran is on their side

so i don't see i don't believe at all that iran gives orders to hezbollah or the hokies but i do indeed believe that they have a very close relationship with iraq and with the hashish i'd be with the mobilization popular mobilization in iraq and so on i think that's the case but i don't see them as proxies and i think that's one reason why the americans are always miss calculate. dave in philadelphia you want to jump in go ahead i would i would like to enter yeah i have been suspicious all along a bit you know i have no doubt that iran is sympathetic with the who tease and may coordinate things with them when they can but you know i'm very suspicious when they hear that erin is supplying the who tease with advanced weapons to attack the saudis because if you look at the map. there's no connection between iran and yemen in any direction and the u.s. has so many satellites over that area planes flying everywhere blockaded craft

carried carriers destroyers with radar a blockade and if they were shipping large rockets to yemen. then we are after all these years of this civil war going on and we're from saudi arabia and yemen where is the capture of these so i mean the u.s. intelligence unit has this irrational this is ok it's not a hassle and learn ok that joe jump in washington go ahead joe and no i mean. because some don't know but there's been u.s. intelligence about this for 40 years especially for the obama years the things that are going through a month yes but no cash or and there's no destruction of the trance it. you know it's all along the will is action in lebanon or in iraq i had to stand i said i agree what pummelled said regarding the picture and how the delicious as additional

get on with the proxies but my problem is we cannot deny that there are mixed messages we are getting from yemen you had some was rolled from what they busy had and then launching of the weapons at the same time before the battle talking to us mediation basically in lebanon to the israelis so yes i mean there are mixed messages coming coming from iran and again the study of this thing going on saudi arabia didn't get it could not be at the stand with the context of the us american tension the timing was very clear at this moment after what happened in the new york times and the tension between the 2 doesn't mean it's very obvious even hezbollah said that clearly if you don't is under attack we're going to come and help them so yes and also us approx is serving us interests of the saudi proxies even the little and the weak and inefficient also that are trying to serve saudi interests so there is this war going on and denying that there is that the u.s. out of nothing just lunch all of this. issues is not accurate yes bolton is actually

of the. it is not i think but now it is back channels now and we are you know if you can see else let me and evidence we have plenty go ahead dave go ahead we have plenty of evidence of us. over and over if we find evidence of u.s. weapons being used against the who he is and the yemeni people by of american weapons you see them exploded then they show the pictures of the parts with us labels on them in serial numbers and everything we don't get the evidence of iranian weapons being fired at the saudis and the kind of evidence that would show meijer support for the rudeness from erin and you know saying that he. ok you got a little bit of a we're going to something that's or evidence ok let me go to mohamed here i'm going to toss the rules we're not going to make it now how many and where they come from ok i'm going to get it right now how is this. hyper activity on the part of

the united states and its allies impacting the region because it would seem to me that you know i've been watching closely my pompei on john bolton as the trial the global trot around the world pitching an anti iran policy and most people are irritated by it. they feel like they're being bullied right here i mean it seems to me this this this heightened activity is really alienating and actually isolating the united states they're not going to get the allies they want to go along with this not in any way i mean they're very publicly scorning it is well go ahead. without a doubt while the americans are hurting the iranian economy and or and their intention is to make people suffer i mean this is something that even trump admitted in his recent interview on fox where he also said by the way that the military industrial complex wants war which was an interesting statement but he he he's saying that

he's waging economic warfare in iran and it has an effect but what he has also done is that this fight the powerful american narrative and the fact that it controls all the media across the globe and that the united states is has been the sole superpower for for quite a while the united states for the 1st time has isolated itself when it comes to iran and we see that across the globe even american allies at these verbal ie they supported iran and are critical of the united states even the europeans who though they are abiding by american demands and they're in clear violation of the nuclear agreement and they're showing their weakness as a result but still at least a verbal either oppose the united states and what the americans have done actually by sanctioning china by carrying out an economic trade war with china and the sanctions on russia as they've created a convergence among different countries and i think that's going to be more of

a problem in the in the months ahead for the united states here the united states and in my opinion of course they believe that iran would either collapse or that the iranians would come begging to the negotiating table and neither are going to happen and this is going to be a failure in itself as i said despite the fact that ordinary people are hurting but i'd like to just add one point going back to what joe is saying again the term that i find problematic is is. proxies these are not iranian proxies there is no eve equal in between the 2 sides the whole thesis and sort of not the yemenis if they were proxies they would have. by now many years ago and it would have collapsed the fact that the been able to us down and up against this infinitely more powerful opponent meaning the united states the french the british the germans the canadians and so he's bringing in tens of thousands of mercenaries from north africa and central america the fact that they've defeated this powerful

forces because they have their own agenda the they wants to protect themselves they want to defeat an enemy that is brutalized them so much ok definitely iran is we want to hear i don't think it's not a not iranian we see we have one more minute and i could joe often during the program i want to give him the last word in the last minute on the program go ahead joe where do we go from here co. i mean we have not. going gone with it on monday iraq switzerland so i think there is at least. it doesn't mean they want to talk soon but maybe to try to go to the prebuilt on a crisis to merge the differences now you see more of a divorce in iran now we're conservative voice here so at least they can merge their relation to get to the presidential elections and we see what happens next i think it's eventually for them to talk but no they're not ready well joe i really like i think you've pointed a new phrase here pretty bold tin ok the arrow pretty bolton i mean and that was

pretty chaotic ok i want to thank my guests in washington and in philadelphia and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember. if you will not obey the voice of the lord your god be careful to do all these commandments and the statutes which i command you this day in all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you. and then the people is stolen property and the point must be returned to. get rid of whites all the problems will go away. within the. presence of the fleet. white farmers in south africa every single day people being tortured to death expression the

elderly people in the. place while also find themselves affected by. means outs sweat and laugh. what are you going to have for dinner through the ceiling if anything i'm asking from miami bats those feelings to civil war in south africa easy never to. profit from one wires or any chong not be in the top of your hand to begin to. look. after the previous stage of my career was over everyone wondered what i was going

to do next the multiple different clubs on one hand it is logical to sort of go from fields where everything is familiar on the other i wanted a new challenge and a fresh perspective i'm used to surprising people. or not if you think. i'm going to talk about football not the or else you think i was going to go. by the way what is it that flying here.

is. an attack on journalism and a direct assault on the 1st amendment protection force and for media freedom groups as you just. 17 and your charges against julian assange is carrying up to 10 years in jail. and emotional theresa may call the day i now think she will step down as conservative party leader on june 7th. and i do so with no ill will but with enormous gratitude to attach the opportunity to the country. also this hour the philippines is threatening to dump tons of numbers likeable and.