i'll see you the. moon welcome to worlds apart it's been barely a week since the new ukrainian president was sworn into office but he's already being threatened with lawsuits and an overthrow by the very same people who came to power by violent street protests 5 years ago can blood to ms lewinsky deliver on his promise of reading ukraine of the old guard without employing their old habits well to discuss that i'm now joined by ilya up on the matter of

a former member of the russian parliament who made a new home in ukraine there's a bit of myself it's always good to see you how are things in kenya. is very good thanks for having me here always my pleasure now mr dyleski had such a smashing success of the polls that one would think that he has it absolute mandate from the people to implement his agenda and yet. when you look at the people's representatives for example the speaker of the current dr don draper would be there seems to be quite a lot of pushback against the new president how do you explain that you know if. he's vidia trumper like personality he teamed to power with the promise to break the system as the call to the elite came to that's quite natural that all the elites really like him if you. actually voted for mr who else could you would see that. the very center of the you were

both against him. some of the districts western ukraine and the rest of the country gave overwhelming support for the new president well i personally think that mrs eland is a little bit more likable than mr trump he seems to be more progressive found to be honest with you i think the. the political establishment in the united states is also a little bit more. well i would say reserved in ukraine because if we take mr proby for example he's not your regular scheming politician he's actually a pretty violent guy i mean he represents a pretty extreme faction of the ukrainian politics he's people were filmed moving around weapons on them on my donkey you know that he's widely speculated to have had some role in the massacre that followed when he alludes to the smell of burning tires as he did on twitter just the other day how is that not a threat well i think you're describing mr power be your forwarding.

russian i mean he he has a previous catchy record and it's recognised not only in russia but also in the west. part of the middle so i don't think many people would agree with what you just said of course in culture the rostrum radicals. they are not representative of the parliament so this parliament is an area that would be a union between right wing conservatives. liberals this is true but busy very much the same for example in our country in russia. very very similar portraits of the parliament on the very different from the parliament seen other countries in the west you could at least agree with me that mr pruitt be has been quite critical of zelinsky 1st moves as president 1st and foremost his

decision to disband the parliament and call for new elections he's been he's rhetoric has been pretty did this if i would say you disagree but mr probus is a representative for both parts of cold popular busy front and this party is suffers the most. of the premature elections because right now they they came 1st in the previous elections lost a lot of the popular support because their prime minister mr he said you had to be responsible for the most unpopular reforms in the contrail and increase of gas and electricity tariffs what people of course didn't like a poll. that's why the. approval of the sponsor right now is. so it's over this that in the next elections the sponsors move making it to the next parliament so of course he was. against and of course was speaking very loudly

against this but. another political party which makes that will encourage. be a pro presidential party is the other way around so they want premature elections because they think that there was for there were no lies right now in that they can become the major opposition in the next parliament which. for this because well i think this is actually a very interesting. epic because the outgoing rather is filled with my down political class these are the people who just 5 years ago presented themselves as this new generation that's radically different from all their predecessors and yet judging from opinion polls their chances of getting reelected are about as good as pressure why do you think the voters are getting so skeptical i will put it mildly so skeptical of the my don crop of politicians you see here. you can see that happened 2014 when it was most feel has it even started a law it was started because they managed to overthrow the previous government. the

former president and c.e.o. of course which to free the country or. go to rio for representatives of the old elites the poor associate that that will be only achievement 5 years down the line. that was the major the major thing of course people wanted much more and they didn't want just the ability to travel freely with europe they want to through to become part of europe but to become part of europe means a lot of social guarantees social care it means. living standards. this is a very far way to go still in ukraine now one consistent feature of ukrainian politics is the ability of politicians to shed their political skin i'm grow a new one do you think people who used to associate themselves with either pressure or somebody else avi likely to try to rebrand themselves as supporters.

but i don't think they will be generally very much successful. ukraine is true for the 1st time in this history to receive a parliament where one part of the would have the majority of seats that will be a personal scheme is a political. partitive called this sort of i'm for the people. in ukrainian politics because before the water started to give one chunk of power to the president and the mother to his opponents in the in the parliament secondly. of course because for the parliament is elected partially on the parts of the eastern part of trillions to go monday it's. districts those people who are elected directly by the people usually the people from the business just. local dignity. interests. tend to be politically of course. in the

past they most likely would join the. corps currently they are more likely to be alliance with mr resilience q but they knew where i think that the decisions would be made snowing in his office the power would be we more consulted the 5th the 5th was before now eason to be taking it for granted that selenski is would have a smashing success the parliamentary party would have a smashing success at the parliamentary elections but it's clear that he's team is very limited they don't have people on the ground they don't have enough infrastructure to organize that vote and to some respects the parliamentary vote is much more complex and complicated than the presidential vote because you have to vote with the many many representatives rather than the why you so sure that all those people in single man they districts will support him because they tend to associate themselves with deposit impression seems to be quite fired up to continue

his political life. of course the former president will fight for his best to stay in port 6 but we saw the moment move to previous elections though selectional shoulder very clear is that people want all the people from the pa. it's to go. that's why me some of the key have got almost 75 percent or 4 popular support as those elections of course. parliamentary elections you are you absolutely correct would be not so convincing most likely he would get closer to 50 percent support for his political party but that would be sufficient to get more than 50 percent of seats in the parliament of course we will see how that goes about the current forecast that he would have $230.00 seats

in $450.00 seats at home and other now i heard you say recently dad the changes that you personally like to see in russia would have to start in ukraine and this is something we're heard 5 years ago from petrov who essentially continued with politics as usual now clearly selenski looks fresher and more progressive but i suppose it's not just about looks aren't you being carried away by his style at the expense of substance or substance is yet to come because it's being associated with a government ukraine is that what the presidential republican is a parliamentary republic and the government is being formed by the parliament so right now president is more a symbolic figure rather than the real either so he would take as you mean the power i would say or only by the end of the summer. before that

but returning to your original question you see mr poroshenko was coming to power as the president of peace unfortunately kremlin has pushed him to become the president who are. a fool scale offensive in eastern ukraine by grabbing more pieces of territory of the original i suppose mr poroshenko didn't have a same. you are trying to tell me that everything is decided in moscow they present a few great had absolutely no decision and that there is there is an aggression and the country has to defend itself and you cannot be the president of peace when you have to defend yourself you can still deal with corruption issues and economic growth reach he didn't deal with successfully i think you would grant me that that's a separate issue the primary issue for ukrainians was the question of war and peace and that was the 1st major problem with the previous present them but that was more

his fault it was the fact that was imposed over the country by the external force and the force was in more school rather than arguing about who is to blame for what's happening between russia and ukraine what i'm more interested in is the sort of the transformation in post of its side is and we all know that it's far more complicated than it seems look at armenia for example they had a peaceful transition of power last year and i think it's clear that the new prime minister is facing a lot of difficulties reforming the system getting rid of corruption etc i just wonder if people on their ass have made how difficult it is to change things in our countries and if they perhaps expect too much from their leaders and too little from themselves nor of course it is a very difficult and ukraine is a large country. 45000000 people so with just one 3rd or for the size of russia so. the 1st smoke like 10 times a 100 times. like small georgia with 4000000 people we were

just out of his reforms or what 3000000 people you know with. of course we are talking about a country which has them times larger. of course the fact that when their share is very large what's to it starts from the feeder off the. either you for the neither if the leader is voting. if neither one. has a priority. to making his prosperous the early think over thing would move in the right direction and i think that is exactly the type of neither i'm talking about well mr pena myself we have to take a short break now but we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned.

next geysers financial but they say money to develop. this is the central plank support diet limits on the problem might say stuff to. welcome back to worlds apart in the up in the matter also russian politicians in exile in ukraine. by the way your twitter handle still describes you as temporarily reciting in ukraine is that an accurate description given that from what i know

you've recently acquired the ukrainian passports are you there still temporarily or are you there for life or i here until we see positive changes both in ukraine and russia yes i acquired ukraine you know citizenship from hands of former president mr poroshenko that's happened through his last day and more in his. the last working hour in his office which i am proud of from very very thankful for him. no we need to make the country successful and that's what i am diligently working at every day did you have to give up your russian citizenship to get the ukrainian one or ukrainian rule or current food acquires a year or so to say grace period during which i am to decide to give up my russian citizenship so it's not that i am pressured to do this immediately and there are lots of discussions in the parliament to we actually allow the will citizenship but

i don't think that would be a political goal for russians because. my country unfortunately still the aggressor . ukraine and i think that for russia there will be an exclusion and there will be rolled out these the will see the citizenship but anyway we see well i think the experience of some of these self exiled ukrainian politicians may all for some hope to you because a lot of them have been returning to kiev these days after a few years of self exile in israel or in the europe the most prominent one the one that attracting a lot of attention is obviously eager kalinowski what do you think is the nature of his relationship with the new president. of the part of course because mr t. was the or when they're off t.v. channel one plus one we're 50 a quarter of the. 4 mr seals key was go into life.

as far as an enormous took almost he was heavily in the film from 2495 words or less why he had to support me so who else could your intellectual so that's what what he did and i suppose this is not where the. connection ends at least in public imagination because president selenski has. made a number of controversial appointments recently but they want that attracted most attention is the bog down columbia personal lawyer who is now serving as. they had of the lansky presidential administration do you think this appointment is consistent with. promise to put in and to politics as usual. you know more about the politics as usual in the mean when you fist or ready. the people it was actually display like least like an experienced president from

the people means to go about was performed by mr president has come into power and he has as he's right and as the chief of staff a person from the past who is actually helping him to leave the troubled waters of ukrainian politics so in this appointment of mr borden is fully consistent with this promise and that's exactly what he did but speaking seriously. is local so i popped it off mr cohen. mr walker the political career i mean has started in the political party of the president in the times before intrusion and. both of them was in the ether to get a hold of that other but by president bush and co and was on the part of the. political party. now he's working

with mr steele's case so i think is he is just a professional mercenary so to say a professional warrior who works for different masters well one of the masters you failed to mention was the ousted president viktor you know convicts he served in his government as well and believe it or not he was responsible for fighting corruption for one year for one year if he was appointed as a cheerful. once a corruption team and they're sure to resign because he. failed story actually when the success in the environment that was at the time well but he still worked for the administration and from what i understand there is a law that prevents him or prevents the administration from appointing him in any civil capacity now what i'm interested in is why do you think mr selenski would take such a controversial decision because he clearly is a smart guy he could have been oblivious to the kind of outcry that he's this

appointment would produce do you think he made it on purpose or do you think it's indicative of the governing style that selenski may assume in the future i think that. here is the parallel with mr trump coming to power the person who has no political experience he needs to have people who form one size he can trust from another side who can actually do your. and there is a great defensive of such people next to. hugh there are some people whom you can trust. another appointment which i think is close to brew into is when he appointed his former executive my leisure of flying for as quarter of this t.v. show as the new chief of. the new chief or again the speaking american storms on the homeland security. which may. here in kiev but that's because that's the persons of interest he's a trust to clean up. sort of the sense of corruption. that

are facing him with mr wharton was just that the more it is the most politically experienced guy and he is appointed to the position or for home office for mr zinni else king or if the person who they call the back office stuff all the dirty work for this purpose i think that that he fits perfectly now are you. koreans are known for their exquisite sense of humor and i think the success of his lengthy is a testament to that but i think you would also perhaps agree that what people in ukraine and in many other post soviet countries want to see is some sort of meritocracy rather than a new leader coming in and appointing his close friends in the position of power regard list of whether they have. the necessary experience on not it's understandable in the 1st few days of administration but do you think that approach would have to change as mr selenski moves forward or.

was a promise that was absolutely clear in the movie the time will come although he's not the political platform no seriously is that force. that's why people are actually voted for him i have all saw myself. doubt so whether all the people will be able to perform properly but most likely. would learn some of them probably will be replaced in the future if if they would fail to do your. trust for free and they are more part of part of the past which i really appreciate let me ask you one more question about the book down i don't know if you had a chance to read his recent interview but what struck me in it was that he almost tries to project himself as the steve bannan of ukrainian politics he takes credit for pushing selenski toward the elections he claims to be this larger than life

political strategist almost the muster mind of the lefties candidacy do you think it's a fair comparison between bogged down bad and i think it's more speaks about the personality these guys are really a very ambitious guy. he was criticized heavily by everybody so i think that he is in the. friend that. he is trying to brand that all the time by a mindless mr coleman that's why he wants to say no guys i'm different i have my own opinion you know one of the favorite jokes currently in ukraine speaking about ukrainian humor is that ukraine is all war with game or forms ukraine is now starting young. i know that these young poor periods as one of the favorite serious of mr was in ski and his 1st public performances remind you so much about that in the if you remember all those masterminds all those people who are quite convinced

that they would be able to pull strings there eventually were completely out of any political influence and they think that would be the case with mr zale skills well that's you know there's parallels with cinnamon they make me think of ask it is because i mean it's one thing to watch something on on the telly and people usually do that when their reality is not very. exciting do you think they will have to come a moment when the ukrainian political class will have to face the harsh reality of actually building the economy and delivering on the promises that it made to the whole place think that it's quite obvious the focus will be the primary focus for mr sale scare truth to fix the economy because currently unfortunately yes it is the poorest country in the you were up and that's the result of previous posts is together if you create in the leaves and international advisor so why am i from the

whole others. commute to fix all that in the near future but also that probably would not be achieved without making peace with russia and stopping their aggression in eastern ukraine and they think that also has started is the right approach he wants to speak directly. people you want to the critical question for hope to achieve peace on the public referendum and i think that's the exactly the right approach to war. with the order needs to move to a new future well i i i don't know if you've heard that but i think he's already a backpedaled on the promise of having some direct engagement with the chrome and he was asked the other day whether he wants to have any talks with moscow and he said no and this is actually what i want to ask you about. the kind of approach that you would like most good to take i'm sure you know that the kremlin has so far

been called addict and distant yet i can tell you that russia would love to have a new beginning with ukraine it's avodah and regardless of who you talk to what kind of approach do you think would be optimal here because clearly i mean investing too much hope and big too forthcoming may not work well as well because as as i said the landscape has already been cattle from his promises. are fourscore wants to have. with ukraine there is a very clear and very easy math of how to do this thing called military force from eastern ukraine and crimea and there will be peace with ukraine you call that easy seriously you have an experience in russian politics you think that's easy what you're proposing here what this means the structure world war peace unfortunately my country currently wants war and more peace but i think there is a possibility here to negotiate about one part of the war of the one which is

ukraine you remember a few years ago there was a also pretty tensions relationship between russia and georgia politically died relationship hasn't been restored but at least when it comes to the economy the trade is back do you think the same scenario of bringing some sort of economic rapprochement could be a political to your relation. between moscow and kiev of course i think that's. always been if you fall. the question is well these being if you really help to fight the war ukraine can both afford the. first step which needs to be taken to the. eastern ukraine stop in the face or. in the blood of the shootings.

i think i would i would agree with you but the statement about both sides of the division line i think that's critical taking both sides to convict based upon a matter of it's always fun talking to you we have to leave it there thank you very much for making yourself available thanks for having me i might have yours to keep this conversation going in our social media pages and hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds apart. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy. let it be

an arms race. experience dramatic development only mostly exists i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time to sit down and talk. join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guests of the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then. thank you thank. you thank. you.

and a marked change of attitude us mainstream media now one of the dangerous precedent being set for journalists by washington's intensified pursuit of julian assange. president trump announces he's sending more troops to the middle east and speeding up arms sales to the region to keep iran in check. and crowds of yellow vests protesters have once again descended on paris for the 28th consecutive weekend of demonstrations. to take r.t. with you on the go just download our android or i phone coming up next on r.t. international going underground discusses the results of india's recent historic election and in the u.k. and i.