but the u.s. insists china will have to respond only high and it's never afraid of any pressure on china certainly has been pressured he has a us cable news presenter telling the world not even to be surprised by revelations from former cia contractor edward snowden now in moscow for safety it's not a huge surprise that the u.s. military is engaged in off fans of cyber attacks yes but the usa is not just offensively hacking countries it is involved in full spectrum surveillance as revealed by edward snowden arguably making accusations against chinese companies like whoa way even more risible joining me now by skype from the british colony of the meter is guinness world record holder jim rogers he founded the quantum fund with george soros and is the author of a bull in china investing profitably in the world's greatest market jim welcome to going underground so you've said trump is making china great again do you think something chinese communist party officials a lot of thing at the latest sanctions against weiwei well trump called out of the trans-pacific partnership and the chinese looked around and said well that means

we're the only ones left so they can take over asia now. and maybe that's what mr trump is thinking make america great but it is doing a lot to make china great because now they don't have any major rivals in asia and the pacific for mentioned terrific you know but you've been talking for years about the end of the dollar or perhaps the end of the dollar as a reserve currency do you think china will be seeing this and the developments of the bank as they try and promote that as as presaging the end of the dollar or as you well know several people were several countries in the world looking for replace the competitive with u.s. dollars it is starting to happen there are the banks that the chinese and others have developed to compete with the u.s. dollar and it's happened i mean when the pound sterling lost its status it didn't happen in that year didn't happen in a decade but it happened and the same thing is starting to happen with us thought.

i know you've been saying it for a while lots of people been saying for a while and you just put your historian hat on there saying mentioning the british empire why has it taken so long for countries like russia china iran to start using currency swaps in rubles and romney meese. 1st of all there's no went for structure if you call up your bank and say i want to do something else the bank doesn't know what to do nearly and earlier everywhere in the world including america including in iran so it takes a while for people to start thinking about it it takes a while for people to actually learn how to do it and it takes a while for people to do it a bench everybody does it is 2nd nature they know that it's better off or it's easy thing to do but right now i know most places in the world if you save foreign currency everybody says u.s. dollars that's the problem and that's why people are the competitors are now trying to rise because they gave us dollar and u.s. government too much power i don't know where the run into christine legarde recently the famously convicted previously convicted of corruption in

a french court head of the i.m.f. but i mean when you meet people like that they don't seem nearly as concerned as you do they seem relatively sanguine about the world order of the world financial architecture bureaucrats to where you make it in that world issue you rouse up their academia or bureaucracy and you do what you're supposed to do you do what everybody else is does you accept the conventional wisdom and then all of a sudden you look around and the whole world is changed and you don't know what happened for goodness sakes if you're good and you heard lies from government bureaucrats and politicians and academics oh my goodness you're going to have real problems i'm not sure how many countries the united states currently sanctions but do you really think the united states might sanction turkey a nato ally turkey because it's now threatening turkey after it's obviously been threatening recently more on venezuela or on iran who knows who else it should look

around in the past 2 or 3 years especially the last 2 or 3 years america keeps doing contradictory things one that they say x. the next they they say why and i'm not sure anybody in washington has a central focus on what's going on mr trump. doesn't seem too and then i don't know who else does you see that recently in the middle east they started attacking capture or capture one of our largest charity bases and then in white truck and the people in washington were bad mouthing catch all right left and center but finally somebody glimmers the trouble is that they wait a minute you know one of our largest military bases there let's calm this down do you think ironically as well the american people seem to understand some of the things you've been saying for so many years because the word socialism is now in parlance and people like sun does talk about mass infrastructure projects probably a bit like china who knows as the only way to stop the kind of financial meltdown you've been predicting since 2008 we're going to have

a no one even though the central bank in america says we want and what i said is that the next one is going to be the worst in my lifetime i don't know when it's going to be i guess you should watch our team to find out when but you know in 2008 we had a problem because that too much debt well since then the debt is skyrocketed everywhere even china has a lot of debt now so no we're certainly going to have another one and it's going to be the worst in my lifetime now i know you're out there for all the big investors but we have here british steel going a bust in this country and so many of the names famous for the privatizations ever since the 980 s. in this country mrs thatcher what would you suggest a government like britain's to do to begin that she lies in now ahead of any big meltdown like the one you're talking about. no nationalization it's never been good for anybody do you think the post office is a paragon of fictious it you think you can you probably think that reprivatize the

post office here i have to tell you it's just the united states you go national when we had one 0 that's right they didn't profit does the post office there so over the internet i don't know the middle east or go to that every room is the british post office nearly privatized is also in financial trouble that maybe somebody should take it maybe they should take over the american post office and try to fix ours i was certainly not very efficient. nationalization in my view you know we tried socialism we tried comminges and we tried it many many places many many times it has not worked maybe it will work the next time we try it but human nature is such that it's not going to work while we are responding to this latest us google attack by saying they're going to start vertical integration in their own operating system some people saying soon relatively soon china will be able to supply its own market let alone the international markets do you do you see policymakers understanding what's going on in that part of the will that you invest

so much in well i will certainly say that sanctions have never worked they've always hurt people in the end for instance right now every morning russian farmers wake up and say thank you mr trump he put sanctions on russian farmers russian agriculture is booming booming because of the sanctions what unforeseen is going to happen is the chinese are going to become self-sufficient in many things which means that many american companies are going to lose their markets you say that the chinese will not be able to produce everything well but i'm skeptical of that statement because they're 1300000000 chinese they produce 10 times as many engineers every year is american some of the bad engineers some of got to be good so i don't i don't think this is going to rebound and. of america rather than help us just finally thanks for the advert for r.t. but of course a lot of you as of r t n around the world tend to blame george soros and i know you work closely with him

what do you think about these attacks on single individuals instead of into structures when it comes to neo liberalism in the fight back against their liberalism 1st action which killed 48 was 40 years ago you might as well ask me about my 1st wife. you just saw it was doing nor do i care but certainly most arguments amount hanumant never been good you know if you cannot come up with a logical rational argument on your own you start attacking people that's never been a good sign in fact when i was a kid in university where used to say if you start resorting to argumentum ad hominem that means you've lost it you've lost the argument jim rogers thank you well as u.k. media picks apart the results of the e.u. elections one thing is almost certain that the left wing case for brix it will not receive airtime on the likes of the british state mandated b.b.c. or channel 4 something that anger is the only kissed poet actor and writer benjamin

zephaniah whose band the revolutionary minds is currently on to a bringing views ignored by the mainstream to people across the u.k. we met him at the premises studios in east london benjamin thanks for being on going underground again while we had the premises studio in east london and what is the revolutionary mind of the tour the album the track wow. truck. and the album i guess is about. the revolution that i think we need now not necessarily one where people take to the streets and all that stuff although sometimes i think we need a bit of that but more about trying to get people to think differently and i'm just convinced that the old way of doing stuff is just redundant imo you hear that from the labor party people who are here to change you know our neighbor but you know our city before you know i feel like an anarchist and that's the only way i can describe myself because i look at so many of the way people have tried the think they're all letting us down in one way or another and we've got to find a new way i don't know what the name of it is i'm not telling people have to vote

i'm just trying to say think outside the box you know what i show you had low key there's a drill minister must be falling x. even mainstream stars like storms you're on this music too or i mean i turn on the b.b.c. and channel 4 in britain and they often have a debate about whether it's the music that's part of the problem as regards arguable economic violence austerities as the 20 away crash music as far as i've seen as not made people on imply that music is not put people into bad how the. music is not left kids on the street hungry music is not cause homelessness music is trying to reflect those feelings lisa jailing or suspended sentence a certainly for musicians drill music in south london the start in south london now international that's being blamed for the rise in syria's use drones i know. artists that do drill music and what used to be cold rolled music and grime music

and. a lot of them a very creative people but they live in a very hostile environment and they're just reflecting the reality look when i started creating music it was reggae music and we were talking about unemployment you talk about bubble under system it was doing that what it was doing to us that was our reality there's a wonderful. sorry for quoting my seems they're all typical for a guy with dreadlocks to be quoted above a guy who dreadlocks but it was an interview when somebody was interviewing bob marley and said you know why is your work so political and he just didn't understand the question i agree that it was just the thing was just an honest because he just for i'm just writing about my reality on this writing about the way we live on one thing about the way we suffer i'm writing about the way we're policed you know i'm writing about the white colonialism is affecting me. you didn't sit down to go and i'm going to write political music and i don't think you know grill artist and are going to write really drill music to upset people and

cause violence this is their reality more from the germans off in iran when drudge wiki leaks in the left wing case fabric sets after the break as well as a performance from the band the revolutionary minds. what politicians do. they put themselves on the line they get accepted or rejected . so when you want to be president i'm sure. somehow i want to be that's. what you going to be it's like the $43.00 of them or the people. i'm interested always in the lives of our. friendship.

you know watching going underground in part 2 of our interview with anna kissed poet benjamin zephaniah at the premises studios in east london we see jimmy cliff was on this show around the time the wholesale environment story started to emerge and obviously he was suitably anger. but since theresa may and the disgraced home secretary i think she will be burning of a leader this is she went we've been having africa families on the show talking about people who are in their eighty's you never traveled abroad who people with threat of deportation are going to funerals there are deaths in jamaica after deportation i mean it's appraiser going on to you you've been talking about issues to do with immigration and raises of longer does it surprise you in 1903 i

pro 9093 drug gardener was killed she was killed by an organization called the extradition squad that was a squad that used to go around and deport people she was in the house with her son and they came and i'm going to quote my own poetry they put a liver belt around her 13 feet of type and bound handcuffs or to cure her and only garden of ourselves she is illegal so the porter said the empire that brought her she died nobody killed and she never killed herself it is our job to make return to jamaica so the alien the porters of the poor people like me the palms much longer than that i wrote that in 1993 you know this is being going on for years i used to travel to jamaica and i remember once around the same time probably a bit early and eighties getting on a plane and behind me there was a woman in handcuffs and when she saw me to recognize me she screamed benjamin

benjamin help me please help me and i said what's the problem today deporting me deported me i came to england when i was 6 months old they send him back to jamaica i don't know jamaica brother help me help me a mother got up to sit and talk with the places that back off. all food affrighted jamaica i could hear a cry of. and i just want let me go near her so we've known about this for years this is the 21st century and later going on i don't know why you're so surprised no it doesn't surprise me. it's very sad that it doesn't surprise me but it doesn't surprise me not much has changed and certainly when it comes to kind of. immigration there was no time when the whole market is when the home office said a stock we're going to have a look at this and. do something about it if there's been tweaking it and then

the strange thing is that we can hit in the wrong direction they're not creating an environment for these people to feel at home they're creating a hostile environment that's not a word that leveling of made up for in by the words of tourism a yes we've just recently we've had 5 people killed in jamaica and i heard from another one does a couple of days ago after deportation yes after deportation the one guy that has gone back he came here while he was young but army had a driving offense and they sent him back and he said all these neighbors think he's a rapist in a murder because some m.p. said we're only deported rape is the murder of. and he and he and he's been deported on a driving offense i don't know about you but i have a driver defense you know we get parking tickets all the time speeding tickets or department i do you look so innocent i don't have a driver. there's just been very big campaign about to change course islands maybe many people in britain don't know much about it. why leave involved

and what did you make of this court ruling that the british films are being annoying that britain has to release its imperial control of these islands in the pacific well 1st of all what you said is right every time i write or talk about these islands i get feedback from people saying never heard of it could do to really have happened. that's why i talk about it it's outrageous what happened does ireland and when it comes to the british government ignore in. the court's rulings well that shows you that when people talk about the rule of law that's fine until it's an inconvenience for them and then they just ignore it especially when it comes to the child are silent because it's not really in the headlines i mean i think at the moment a lot of important things in british and international politics but i'm speaking

from a british perspective and not in the headlines because we're so overwhelmed with bricks of. and the government are going away with a lot of things because of that if you go on question time so i've been on a few times. and i. brought that up they would tell me that it's not current news you know. it's not in the papers now so it would be shut down. so who decides what is current and was not current rosy feel that the notice still should be an issue very much in the news or bricks it though is the main issue in this country and i understand i mean you've been on the mainstream journals really bad is there that one of the people that helped you through this was joni ben the late johnny byrne tell me a bit about that about what really peddled you a break well tony benn was always until you. and he always say that he's the nearest thing i had to a political mentor because i could sit down with him for i was and he would talk to

me about things i was trying to work out and he was always very open with me always say this is the way i see it you may see it another way and i remember him telling me about the and he always felt that it was distant undemocratic but also. this is something i feel a revolutionary. if i want to go and get my politician. i think not very far from here but the ones in europe are very far away in the scattered you know some of them in brussels some of them in front for the minimum piracy. so deep down in my instinct was to kind of follow tony benn's example and to want to leave for if you like left wing reasons. the sad thing was that just wasn't part of the debate when when i saw the people i was getting in bed with and the reasons why vi were leaving they just didn't correspond with the reasons why i want to leave so

you know i made it clear i voted to remain i mean the birth of a royal baby oh now you're not going to tell me that media seriously called you up to comment on the birth of oil baby in terms of its identity politics race imperialism in a context just some went when the baby was a day old well this is a very important moment in our history. no providing look i'm just not interested in revolutionary minds don't give a damn when a baby in the palace is born i'm really not interested what would you think is going through the minds of the kinds of journalists that immediately think it could be a black baby uncle benjamin's if i don't answer very difficult to get into the mind of somebody think that there's some some journalist some media people who think that you know. benjamin's i phone i. can be andrew card. for these are the smoke people for the black community

i mean they were trying to bury we just we have our point of view we create art and i poetry or whatever and we have a point of view but we never claim to speak for the black community and we none of us are experts on black people but they seem to think we are you know i mean i've had worse things than that i had an interview there were a day where a lady kind of reached out to me different from benjamin told me what is it like to be black i should remember that this is a critical loving how do you know ok just i just that either of never being what i think judy is belmarsh prison the circle going time of prisons in this country what do you make of wiki leaks and. and the situation where you are in journalism which you know i really don't know much about him. but as soon as i started to hear about his work suddenly claim to forward that it would end this way

. the idea of somebody who says there's all this stuff that hidden from you and i'm going to show you it i'm going to give it to you left right and center. is the kind of person i've always wanted to see you know what i've always i've always felt that there's so much that we just don't know about it and here's somebody to kind of put me in the public domain one thing that really upsets me is that we don't hear about all the stuff that they're putting out i sort of film of american soldiers shooting innocent people in the street you know this is big news these are the kinds of things that the people of my country the people who worship know about these are the kind of thing that these people get up to there's a line of poetry unmonitored one of my tracks on the album is called in this world and the line that you could apply to. we live in

a world where people who expose corruption in illegal activities and governments become the ones who are persecuted and hunted down we live in a world where both are exposed violations of the law of themselves violated by the law and i really think that's what's happening to him tell me about cool down because people are told whether privatization of stress being mental illness obviously there's a scary obviously there's a kind of revolutionary fervor on demonstrations uprisings what is called down about it's about young people and i got to say it was originally written about 10 years ago about young people on the streets who were kind of killing themselves at my use and guns fighting because. this kind of post cold war to the side case of a day where a kid is just sitting that sized up a station or guy comes up to me says what ends are you from he didn't even answer him suspecting that he came from another place is shot him. i do think sometimes it

is overblown in the media but i do know parents who have lost their children that way so for them it's a very serious thing i had to be a few in order for a couple of weeks ago a very similar story. so it was a message to them i've always said that. in the kind of society we live in it's natural to be angry you know it's what you do. and when you just start killing your neighbors and your brothers and sisters you're directing it in the wrong y. front fernand wrote about with kind of sometimes when people commented that the people that i read the press and then they start to think i've got themselves and i think that's what's happening benjamin's and i thank you and now benjamin zephaniah and the revolutionary minds with cooldown.

cuchulainn . feel like i was crying. thank you thank you me. because the crew coco. good luck. to both of. you. to egypt thank you. thank you. thank you thank you.

thank. you rick i should be. looking for a way out to try to get. so

what we've got to do. that we have.

so you have economies of scale you know lots of trailer parks all socialize reporting to one. straight and they're extracting the dimes and a lot of people are suffering. facebook and google started with a great idea and great ideals unfortunately there was also a very dark side. they are constructing a profile of you and that profile is real it's detailed and it never goes away turns out that google is manipulating your opinions from the very 1st character

that you type into the search bar it will always favor one dog food over another one comparative shopping service over another and one candidate over another they can suppress certain types of results on what they think you should be seeing if they have this kind of power then democracy is an illusion the free and fair election doesn't exist the more we give them the sooner we all. want everybody to know who else in all of them. is that is. the.

right wing. with the green. parliamentary elections. in 20 years. in the u.k. . party is expected to. win the final results. leaving the conservatives. with britain's prime minister. through.