we need to learn that values of tolerance and liberalism back from the europeans who took it from us in the 1st gentleman and the islam that we are trying to move back to i've not sure that's the way it should be so we're out of time now but we do appreciate your time on this my answer and how much of a thanks for joining us on r.t. international thank you thanks so much. thanks for checking in with us there sal be back with more from the moscow news team in just about half now. claims another victim who will replace to receive me bojo is waiting in the wings and trumps a very confusing and contradictory iran policy who's in charge. going

on the ground of the 93rd birthday of the so-called butcher of cambodia or alleged war criminal henry kissinger recently praised by britain's foreign secretary jeremy hunt the former us secretary of state is accused of torture killing in displacement of tens of millions coming up on the show will the west survive the impending economic up all collapse we speak for the adventure capitalist who made billions with george soros about the ever growing debt that will cause the worst crash in history and as mainstream media obsesses over who will be the next tory prime minister we examine the issues that really matter from wiki leaks to windrush is legendary writer and musician benjamin zephaniah told us of all coming up in today's going underground but 1st away from the u.s. economic wars of the e.u. russia venezuela and iran to its attack on the superpower of the 21st century china is what the doldrums not yet resigned f.b.i. director christopher ray says about china it's

a threat to our economic security and by extension it's a threat to our national security. but it's even more fundamental and that is behavior that file it's the rule of law it violates principles of fairness and integrity it violates our rules based world order that's existed since the end of world war 2. put plainly china scenes determined to steal its way up the economic ladder at our expense we've been unable to secure an interview with the chinese ambassador to london about allegations like these the china is a rogue state bent on theft suffice it to say that the us is clearly violated the post 945 rules based order from career in vietnam to palestine nicaragua or in cuba here though is what china is saying about us policy if the us and china will have to respond to me highness never afraid of any pressure on china certainly has been pressured he has a us cable news presenter telling the world not even to be surprised by revelations

from former cia contractor edward snowden now in moscow for safety it's not a huge surprise that the u.s. military is engaged in off fans of cyber attacks yes but the usa is not just offensively hacking countries it is involved in full spectrum surveillance as revealed by edward snowden arguably making accusations against chinese companies like wall way even more risible joining me now via skype from the british colony of the meter is guinness world record holder jim rogers he founded the quantum fund with george soros and is the author of a bull in china investing profitably in the world's greatest market jim welcome to going underground so you've said trump is making china great again do you think some chinese communist party officials a law fing at the latest sanctions against weiwei well trump called out of the trans-pacific partnership and the chinese looked around and said well that means we're the only ones left they can take over asia now. maybe that's what mr trump is they can make america great but it's doing

a lot to make china great because now they don't have any major rivals in asia and the pacific for mr rich you know but you've been talking for years about the end of the dollar or perhaps the end of the dollar as a reserve currency do you think china will be seeing this and the developments of the bank as they try and promote that as as presaging. the end of the dollar well as you well know several people whichever countries in the world are looking for replace mark least a competitive with the u.s. dollar it is starting to happen there are the banks that the chinese and others have developed to compete with the u.s. dollar and it's happening i mean when the pound sterling lost its status it didn't happen in a year didn't happen in a decade but it happened and the same thing is starting to happen with the us stock i know you've been saying it for a while lots of people been saying for a while and you you just put your historian hats on there saying mentioning the british empire why has it taken so long for countries like russia china iran to

start using currency swaps in rubles and renminbi this. 1st of all there's no went for structure if you call up your bank and say i want to do something else the bank doesn't know what to do nearly and earlier everywhere in the world including america including in iran so it takes a while for people to start thinking about it it takes a while for people to actually learn how to do it and it takes a while for people to do it a bench everybody does it is 2nd nature they know that it's better offered easy thing to do but right now i know most places in the world if you save foreign currency everybody says u.s. dollars that's the problem and that's why people are competitors are now trying to rise because they gave us dollar and u.s. government too much power i don't know where the run into christine legarde recently the famously convicted previously convicted of corruption in the french quarter head of the i.m.f. but i mean when you meet people like that they don't seem nearly as concerned as

you do they seem relatively sanguine about the world order of the world financial architecture the bureaucrats the way you make it in that world is you you rouse up to academia or bureaucracy and you do what you're supposed to do you do what everybody else is does you accept the conventional wisdom and then all of a sudden you look around and the whole world is changed and you don't know what happened for goodness sakes if you're good and you heard lies from government bureaucrats and politicians and academics oh my goodness you're going to have real problems i'm not sure how many countries the united states currently sanctions but do you really think the united states might sanction turkey a nato ally turkey because it's now threatening turkey after it's obviously been threatening recently more on venezuela or on iran and who knows who else it should look around in the past 2 or 3 years especially the last 2 or 3 years america keeps doing contradictory things one day they say x. the next day they say why and i'm not sure anybody in washington has

a central focus on what's going on mr trump. same to another i don't know who else does you see that recently and the middle east they started attacking capture or capture as one of our largest charity bases and their truck and the people in washington were badmouthing catchall right left and center but finally somebody glimmers the drop is that they wait a minute you know one of our largest military bases there let's calm this down do you think ironically as well the american people seem to understand some of the things you've been saying for so many years because the word socialism is now in parlance and people like sun does talk about mass interest the kind of financial meltdown you've been predicting since 2008 we're going to have a no one even though the central bank in america says we want and what i said is that the next one is going to be the worst in my lifetime i don't know when it's going to be i guess you should watch our team to find out when but you know in 2008 we had a problem because that too much debt well since then the debt is skyrocketed everywhere

even china has a lot of debt now so no we're certainly going to have another one and it's going to be the worst in my lifetime now i know you are out there for all the big investors but we have here british steel going a bust in this country and so many of the names famous for the privatizations ever since the $980.00 s. in this country mrs thatcher what would you suggest a government like britain's to do to begin that she lies in now ahead of any big meltdown like the one you're talking about. no no national it's never been good for anybody do you think the post office is a paragon of fictious it you think you can you probably think that reprivatize the post office here i have to tell you it's just the united states you go national when we had one 0 that's right they didn't profit does the post office they're so over the internet i don't know the middle is a go but every room is the british post office nearly privatized is also in front

of trouble that maybe somebody should take it maybe they should take over the american post office and try to fix ours i was certainly not very efficient. nationalization in my view you know we tried socialism we tried comminges and we tried it many many places many many times it has not worked maybe it will work the next time we try it but human nature is such that it's not going to work while we are responding to this latest u.s. google attack by saying they're going to start vertical integration in their own operating system some people saying soon relatively soon china will be able to supply its own market let alone the international markets do you see policymakers understanding what's going on in that part of the will that you invest so much in i will certainly say that sanctions have never worked they've always hurt people in the end for instance right now every morning russian farmers wake up and say thank you mr trump he put sanctions on russian farmers russian agriculture is booming

booming because of the sanctions what unfortunate is going to happen is the chinese are going to become self-sufficient in many things which means that many american companies are going to lose their markets you say that the chinese will not be able to produce everything well but i'm skeptical of that statement because they're 1300000000 chinese they produce 10 times as many engineers every year is american some of the bad engineers somehow got to be good so i don't i don't think this is going to rebound and. of america rather than help us just finally thanks for the advert for r.t. but of course a lot of you as of a t.n. around the world tend to blame george soros and i know you work closely with him what do you think about these attacks on single individuals instead of into structures when it comes to neo liberalism in the fight back against their liberalism 1st action which killed 48 was 40 years ago you might as well as me about my 1st wife have no idea what just is or was doing nor do i care but

certainly most arguments amount hanumant never been good you know if you cannot come up with a logical rational argument on your own you start attacking people that's never been a good sign if back when i was a kid in university where used to say if you start resorting to argumentum ad hominem that means you've lost it you lost the argument jim rogers thank you well as u.k. media picks apart the results of the e.u. elections one thing is almost certain that the left wing case for brix it will not receive airtime on the likes of the british state mandated b.b.c. or channel 4 something that angers the advocates to poet actor and writer benjamin zephaniah whose band the revolutionary minds is currently on to a bringing views ignored by the mainstream to people across the u.k. we met him at the premises studios in east london benjamin thanks for being on going underground again while we had the premises studio in east london and what is

the revolutionary mind of the tour the album the track wow. truck on the album i go through that by. the revolution that i think we need now not necessarily one where people take their streets and all that stuff although sometimes i think we need a bit of that but more about trying to get people to think differently and i'm just convinced that the old way of doing stuff is just redundant imo you hear that from the labor party people are here to change you and all but you know our city before you know i feel like an anarchist and that's the only way i can describe myself because i look at so many overweight people have tried and i think they're all letting us down in one way or another and we've got to find a new way i don't know what the name of it is i'm not telling people have devolved i'm just trying to say think outside the box you know what i actually read low key there's a drill minister must be following x. even mainstream stars like storms you're on this music too or i mean i turn on the b.b.c. and channel 4 in britain and they often have

a debate about whether it's the music that's part of the problem as regards arguable economic violence austerities as the 20 away crash music as far as i've seen made people on imply that music is not put people into bad housing. music and not let kids on the street hungry music is not cause homelessness music is trying to reflect those feelings lisa jailing or suspended sentences only for musicians drill music in south london the 3rd in south london now international that's being blamed for the rise in syria's use drones i know. artists that do drill music and what used to be cold rolled music and grime music and. a lot of them a very creative people but they live in a very hostile environment and they're just reflecting the reality and when i started creating music it was reggae music and we would talk about implied

unemployment we talk about bubbling under system it was doing it that's what it was doing to us that was our reality there's a wonderful. so for quoting it may seem stereotypical for a guy with dreadlocks to be quoting him of a guy who dreadlocks but it was an interview when somebody was interviewing bob marley and said you know why is your work so political and he just didn't understand the question i agree that it was just the thing was he just didn't understand because he just for i'm just writing about my reality on this writing about the way we live on one thing about the way we suffer i'm writing about the way we are policed you know i'm writing about the way colonialism is affecting me. you didn't sit down and go when i'm going to write political music i don't think you know grill artists kind of are going to write really drill music to upset people and cause violence this is their reality more from the germans out in iran wind rush wiki leaks in the left wing case fabrics that's after the break as well as a performance from the band the revolutionary minds. you're

watching going underground in part 2 of our interview with anarchist poet benjamin zephaniah at the premises studios in east london jimmy cliff was on this show around the time the hostile environment stories started to emerge and obviously he was suitably angry but since theresa may and the disgraced home secretary i think she might be burning now for leader says she went we've been having africa caribbean families on the show talking about people who are in their eighty's who never traveled abroad who people with threat of deportation even going to funerals there are deaths in jamaica after deportation i mean surprised us here going i'm

going to you you've been talking about issues to do with immigration and racism for a long time does it surprise you in 1993 i pro 9093 joy gardner was killed she was killed by an organization called extradition squad. that was a squad that used to go around and deport people she was in the house with her son and they came and i'm going to quote my own poetry they put a lever belt around her 13 feet of tape and bound handcuffs or to cure her and only garden of ourselves she's illegal so the porters had the empire that brought her she died nobody killed and she never killed herself it is our job to make a return to jamaica said the alien the porters and the poor people like me the poems much longer than that i wrote that in 1993 you know this is being going on

for years i used to travel to jamaica and i remember once around the same time probably a bit early and eighties getting on a plane and behind me there was a woman in handcuffs. and when she saw me to recognize me she screamed benjamin benjamin help me please help me and i said what's the problem today deporting me deported me i came to england when i was 6 months old they send him back to jamaica i don't know jamaica brother help me help me and as i got up to sit and talk with the police as that back off. and all food affrighted jamaica i could hear a cry and i just wouldn't let me go near her so we've known about this for years this is the 21st century and the these flights are going on i don't know why you're so surprised no it doesn't surprise me. it's very sad but it doesn't surprise me but it doesn't surprise me not much has

changed and certainly when it comes to crime of. immigration there was no time in the home office is when the home office said a stop we're going to have a look at this. and and do something about it i've just been tweaking it and the strange thing is that we can hit in the wrong direction they're not creating an environment for these people to feel at home they're creating a hostile environment that's not a word that living of made up for and by the words of generator may yes we've just recently we've had 5 people killed in jamaica and i heard from another one does a couple of days ago after deportation yes after deportation the one guy that has gone back he came here while he was young but army had a driving offense and they sent him back and he said all these neighbors think is a rapist in a murder because some m.p. said we're only deported rapist or murderer of and he and he's been deported on a driving offense i don't know about you but i have a drive

a defense you know we get parking tickets all the time speeding tickets or department i do you look so innocent i don't have a driver. there's just been very big campaign about the change was ireland maybe many people in britain don't know much about it. while either involved and what did you make of this court ruling that the british government has to be ignoring that britain has to release its imperial control of these islands in the pacific well 1st of all what you said is right every time i write or talk about these islands i get feedback from people saying never heard of it could destroy really have happened. that's why i talk about it it's outrageous what happened does ireland and when it comes to food a british government in. the court's rulings well that shows you that. when people talk about the rule of law that's fine until it's an inconvenience for

them and then they just ignore it especially when it comes to details are silent because it's not really in the headlines i mean i think at the moment a lot of important things in british and international politics but i'm speaking from a british perspective and not in the headlines because we're so overwhelmed with breakfast. and the government get away with a lot of things because of that i mean if you go on question time i've been on a few times. and i. brought that up they would tell me that it's not current news you know. it's not in the papers now so it would be shut down. who decides what is current and was not kind of easy feel that the you know this chill should be an issue very much in the news as breakfast though is the main issue in this schedule and instead i mean you've been on the mainstream jails a girl who said that one of the people that helped you through this was tony benn the late only be just tell me a bit about that about what jodi penciled you about break well tony benn was always

anti e.u. and. he i always say that he's the nearest thing i had to a political mentor because i could sit down with him for hours and he would talk to me about things i was trying to work out and he was always very open he was always a disses the way i see it you may see it in the hallway and i remember him telling me about the and he always felt that it was distant undemocratic but awful. this is something i feel a revolutionary. if i want to go and get my politicians i think not very far from here but the ones in europe a very far away and discovered you know some of them in a bus or some of them in frankfurt the monument in paris in a. so deep down my instinct was to kind of follow tony benn's example and to want to leave for if you like left wing reasons. the sad thing was

that just wasn't part of the debate and then when i saw the people i was getting in bed with and the reasons why vi were leaving they just didn't correspond with the reasons why i want to leave so you know i made it clear i voted to remain i mean the birth of a royal baby oh now you're not going to tell me that media seriously called you up to comment on the birth of oil baby in terms of its identity politics race imperialism in a context just some went when the baby was a day old well this is a very important moment in our history. no i look i'm just not interested in revolutionary minds don't give a damn when a baby in the palace is born i'm really not interested what would you think is going through the minds of the kinds of journalists that immediately think it could be a black baby i'll call benjamins if i don't answer very difficult to get into the mind

of somebody think that there's some some journalist some media people who think about you know. benjamin's i phone i. can be andrew card. for these are the spokes people for the black community and we never claim to be we just we have our point of view and we create art and i post here whatever and we have a point of view but we never claim to speak for the black community and we none of us are experts on black people but they seem to think we are you know i mean i've had worse things than that i had an interview give a day where a lady kind of reached out to me different from benjamin tell me what is it like to be black i should remember that this is a critical loving how do you answer a gay just i just that either of never being what i think judy is belmarsh prison the circle going time of prisons in this country what do you make of wiki leaks and

. and situation regarding julius which you know i really don't know much about him but as soon as i started to hear about his work suddenly claim to forward that it would end this way the idea of somebody who says there's all this stuff that hidden from you and i'm going to show you it i'm going to give it to you left right and center. is a kind of person i've always wanted to see you know what i've always i've always felt that there's so much that we just don't know about it and here's somebody to kind of put me in the public domain one thing that really upsets me is that. we don't hear about all the stuff that they're putting out i sort of film of american soldiers shooting innocent people in the street you know this is big news

these are the kinds of things that the people of my country the people who world should know about these are the kind of thing that these people get up to there's a line of poetry and monitored one of my tracks on the album is called in this world and the line that you could apply to it and it says we live in a world where people who expose corruption in illegal activities and governments become the ones who are persecuted and hunted down we live in a world where both are exposed violations of the law of themselves violated by the law and i really think that's what's happening to him tell me about cool down because people are told whether privatization of stress being mental illness obviously there's a scary obviously there's a kind of revolutionary fervor on demonstrations uprisings what is just one cool down about it's about young people and i got to say it was originally written about 10 years ago it's about young people on the streets who were kind of killing themselves at my use and guns. fighting because. there's kind of post

cold war to the side case of a day where a kid is just sitting as i struck the station or a guy comes up to me says what ends are you from he didn't even answer him suspecting that he came from the place we shot him. i do think sometimes it is overblown in the media but i do know parent to have lost their children that way so for them it's a very serious thing i had to be a few in order for a couple of weeks ago a very similar story. so it was a message to them i've always said that. in the kind of society we live in it's natural to be angry you know it's what you do. and when you just start killing your neighbors and your brothers and sisters you're directing it in the wrong y. front fernand wrote about ruth kind of sometimes when people can't it have to the people to read the press and then they start to think i've got themselves and i think that's what's happening benjamin's and i thank you and now benjamin zephaniah

and the revolutionary minds with called out. thank you. thank. you thank. you like i was crying. thanking me. because of the drug trade cocoa. good luck. to both of. you. to egypt thank you. thank you.

thank you thank. you rick i should be. looking for a way out to try to get. maybe. it's a waste to. let. me just.

leave. you know world a big part of newton's law and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the bats and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for

the truth the time is now we're watching closely watching the hawks. a major blow in the. u.k. . with support from the governing conservatives and labor opposition evaporating.