statements but that's that i think trump was actually expecting that as the mueller investigation finished that he would be able to work a little bit with the democrats to be able to do some policy and let's not forget he went to that meeting with nancy pelosi that you have a structured meeting and he walked out of it and he was upset he was upset that palosi is still going for this impeachment line that the democrats are still going after the impeachment they're still talking about russia that they're still talking about collusion and obstruction and all that stuff and so what do you see now you see the terrace with china you see tariffs against mexico you also saw tariffs against india peter yet end does not forget they have tariffs against turkey as well and so what is a tariff tariff is a barrier and if trump cannot get his infrastructure if he cannot get his wall then he's going to build a different kind of wall yes going to follow on his campaign promise make america great again build the wall he's doing it with tariffs he's going after google now

as well you see a tribe that is just i think visibly telegraphing the message you know what this is all out war the democrats are not going to work with me mainstream media is not going to let go i'm just going to go full force and actually i'm going to glenn here actually is also an indication of acting unilaterally ok however i do have my doubts here i mean the supply chains particularly when it comes to mexico i mean you have companies station in the united states that have subsidiaries in mexico now their own to delivery chain is going to be interrupted here i see the message and maybe it's more of a threat right now because i have a very hard time believing that mexico can actually control its own border so after so many decades of actively encouraging people to cross it here some from the outside world looking in it looks like trump against the world. yes all very much so but i would just point us to not just mexicans is also mexico allowing central nowhere really as an end to transit you know using their territories trances just

walking through it going into the united states so again i think it all fits within trump's main message which is so all the previous presidents really just managed america is the client and you know he's the great the deal maker who will be able to reverse this and make america great again when it comes to the tariffs i think its own 100 places very well to his campaign promise to call his base of your suitcase because one he said will to then slow the migration by making the mexicans do their share of the work extra tariffs will then be able to pay for the wall so again mexico will pay for the wall. it could make american manufacturers more competitive versus their mexican counterparts so at the face of it it could look like a great idea on the other hand. it's fraught with dangers there's just as much a supply chain there's a lot of american companies who rely on this on this mexican suppliers and all

those companies will have a very hard time 2nd america itself is starting to look very unreliable to the entire world and i think this is what alex point out as well which is the most important thing is if america was only going after mexico then yes perhaps it would be then the benefits would outweigh the disadvantages however it's going after everyone this is the chinese the russians the germans all the e.u. iran venezuela everyone at the same time and i think this is when the u.s. might end up isolating itself and simply the whole cost benefit. it's seems to me that you know the people like bolton pompei you don't care about that in doesn't care about a very very different reasons or let me go back to athens alex i think it's interesting here i said in my. auctioneer i think this is also a very strong message to the chinese because we have the 1st breakdown of talks here and trump is showing that he can be very dynamic and that word is open up for

interpretation dynamic could be dynamically good dynamically bad but he's making a really strong statement and he's also said he's on the record that you know the 1st round failed the 2nd round going to be even tougher for you i think he's telegraphing to the chinese that his primary audience right now because of this very important trade relationship between the 2 countries go ahead alex yeah i agree peter i think that trump is number one concern as far as trade and tariffs right now are the chinese and and i think that unlike mexico the chinese do have tools in the twin talks i mean they can hit back at the u.s. i think mexico is in a very very tough position yes the u.s. is taking a risk and yes they are putting themselves as well in a tough position but i think looking at the u.s. economy right now that it could weather the storm mexico on the other hand is going to have big big problem for the chinese can it back and i think trump knows that so he is sending a message to the chinese but he is also sending

a message to mexico as far as immigration goes as far as you know the migration over through mexico over the border any sending a message to his base so it's kind of you know healing a lot of birds with one stone here you know what will work ok i mean and we'll work with the chinese because i. believe right they have a lot of tools in their toolkit here and the united states could be hit pretty hard for me is it really about the at tricks right now because it's 5 percent in some time in june sometime in this week here but that's a threat ok i mean is this this kind of dance that do you know that the trumpet likes to engage in the art of the deal as it were as everybody else in the world is watching all i think so because that's the main you know the how in the goetia it's maximum pressure and the. the maximum pressure in the beginning and that is ordering a deal after a same as with iran and with no expression then later on you can call me let's make

of the oh so it might be something like this with the china's world that they're hoping that the chinese would. sooner or later. try to reach out to the us. agreed to make some unilateral concessions in order to get on their good side again but again that was china is very different and will become very different. points out he argues it should necessarily be to get a better deal the goal should be to break the chinese because we are in a very interesting time with the us well since the 2nd the 3rd industrial revolution the us has risen to to privacy and this is a very different new industrial revolution we're entering and the chinese seem to be taking leadership so if you want to break the chinese this is kind of the time to do it so it's i'm not sure if you have a record when you do you know one thing can lead to another and we have to remember that some of the most. devastating wars in history their origins were trained here oh yes and i would point to much like alex pointed out the chinese are very more

capable of responding there they have more autonomous supply chain stake in the rewire global bell the chains around china themselves and they can use this issue with the united states to stoke up nationalism which they're doing and they go back to athens here to talk about about impeachment here trump in his orbit are all are all for it because they believe that is a losing issue i think they're tend to be right also i would say that they wanted the democrats want to move towards impeachment they want to keep that momentum moving to it not actually doing it to run out the clock before the election go ahead in athens yeah i mean i think the impeachment thing you know you're look at biden and palosi and they're kind of taken a step back and biden isn't saying anything at all actually and he's doing the best out of all the candidates so you keep it quiet. and i think pelosi also understands schumer that impeachment is a losing proposition but i think everyone else on the democrat side you know they

have nothing to lose their numbers are so low right now at least the candidates that are that are looking to run for president their numbers are so low key they're just playing to the radical left base and each one of them is just trying to outdo the other is impeachment good for trump yeah absolutely i mean you know we know it's not going to pass in the senate and we know it's only going to hurt the democrats so of course they're going for it but i think in the end at least my hunch is that palosi will calm things down and she'll she'll bring some common sense to her caucus and i don't know if they'll actually move with impeachment proceedings or if it's just going to play it up in the media until the elections come around that your guest said you just said the key word media c n n m a s a b c they need this for ratings ok they show continues ok act 2 act 3 of this ridiculous conspiracy now this is this is a money making machine for the media the left media glenn last word in the you know i couldn't agree more i think that. the democrats will probably use this

impeachment because of the rush to get talks going to end the too soon i think they will push it towards the election to try to drag on but at the end of day i also agree that it will backfire because a lot of the voters they this is not what they want to hear tired of his story they hired it sucks out on the oxygen. i'm tired because america is having some difficulties they want to overcome then what they want to hear from democrats what are other sources of this what are the ways of addressing these problems and instead it's just trump or all day long and so they don't actually have a platform except we have trump and so i think this will it seems like a good idea to you know go after trump discredit him to really i think it will just prevent them from well in the in the clear message time i think we should be. waiting for william barr and his investigations and a number of other ones here we could see the. the left in the end the liberal media

really go on the defensive which i think it's about time because for 2 years 2 and a half years we had one narrative the other narrative too is just beginning to take off here and i think it's going to be it's going to be shocking and we have donald trump going to the u.k. it looks like we could get a document dump before he even gets there i think that's his going away present to teressa may and the in the her government here i think and i know there's nobody right there ok we're running out of time i'm really glad we had you in athens alex thank you very much ok we've run out of time after a short break we'll continue our discussion and some real news today with r.t. .

after the previous stage of my career was over everyone wondered what i was going to do next the ball different clubs on one hand it is logical to sort of go from fields where everything is familiar on the other i wanted a new challenge and a fresh perspective i'm used to surprising people and i saw one on t.v. . i'm going to talk about football not for you or else you can think i was going to go. by the way ways of the flying here. there's an petersburg international economic forum is a unique event in today's business world. over the last 21 years the forum has

become a leading global platform for discussing the keys economic issues facing russia emerging markets and the world thousands of business community members attend a forum to address today's vital issues. watch our special forum coverage on r.t. . china is not a partner or number one for us yet steel. and e.u. countries our trade partners number one with this and. i cannot share the. those who are those who say that it's a turn of russia eastport you know russia i hope will never turn eastwards. you know russian egoless is is looking to move the sides west towards a nice towards.

you.

so. and a very warm welcome to you you're watching on c.n.n. last. welcome back to crossfire where are all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing some real knows. and now we're joined by john laughlin in france he's a lecturer in political philosophy and i says the catholic university of n.d.

welcome to the program jon i wish i were sitting in the garden with you right now it looks so nice there let's do a post-mortem on the elections. agree or disagree with me you can't say it was a protest vote any more than something is very dramatic is happening in the european body politic and it's not just a protest you could have said that over a number of elections you can say it after this last one something is happening and i want to talk about also the phenomenon of the greens was i don't think it's given enough commentary go ahead john you're absolutely right peter to emphasize the greens because in both france and germany they did very well and they are the left wing version of the protest vote or rather of the increasing disaffection with the european project everybody knows that the 2 main parties in the european parliament lost their absolute majority the socialists in the christian democrats and that is a significant development and they lost it to the expense of as you say the greens

and of course to the so-called right wing populists particularly in britain also in france and above all of course in italy so these are important developments on the other hand in some ways i feel that the results at least in national terms i'm talking mainly about france now are not so much about britain we're not exactly a disappointment but they weren't exactly fantastic either in the sense that the national front in the national mall national in france got exactly the same percentage and i think the same number of votes as it did 5 years ago so it's old. the voters held the set that you know the supporters held we can't really say there's a breakthrough the only major development in france was that the center right party the equivalent of the british conservative party collapsed just as the british conservative party has collapsed spectacular results we had obviously in britain with nigel farage as party with this extraordinary very on british phenomenon yet

of a parliamentary party winning elections which. has never existed before of british politics and obviously as we all know in italy where geni won 31 percent of the vote and thereby gained far more than his coalition partner in in rome so the balance of power in rome has been at least symbolically reversed but of course your basic question is right the the center the center cannot hold to that to quit w.b. yeats right the center which is the establishment vote the establishment vote of the same as ever this what you know you can vote you can choose whatever color you like so long as it's grey that finished and that is now over you know glenn it looks it seems like something is coming to an end because of these centrist parties center like a left center right but is there something new beginning i mean i definitely see

the end of something ok the end of the this had gemini but is there something new in replacing it i think that's where we are we're really in a kind of kind of misty cloudy environment right now. could the good question i think you mentioned earlier on it's reasonable to say this is not the protest vote in more and i think it initially was treated inaccurately 1st because you had this populist or classical conservative emerging on the right for a while the. more or less a bump in the road if we just continue on ignore them nor the ignore them they will . always there is a referendum goes by. ignoring the full steam ahead by us to notice the the more they ignore this. this new party is this populists of one a column of. the more they're also ignoring their own voters and you see that the disenfranchisement. of happiness with political lives is just growing and growing

so. so obviously you have the big ones in the u.k. france italy the fact that you had. the populist party. taking over replacing them with their major the major establishment party says quite remarkable placing them yeah and also obviously the greens as well especially in germany it's quite much like john walker so the dissenters more or less are falling apart but it's not clear what exactly let me go back and go back to france or. we have we look at each individual nation say we've seen a lot of. changes over the last few years and i suppose that the establishment parties are hoping angling that these parties will not be able to work together again kind of divide and conquer i mean that is really an issue right there because the populist or more right wing however you want to determine that mean they're they're not exactly the same actually each one has very specific characteristics

that are for a 1000000 or to others but not exactly the same i think this is what the center is going to do. be very determined to divide and conquer go ahead john and for france that's absolutely true but let's never forget this election to a european parliament is a fake election it's not an election of a european government right and so whether or not the opposition can work together is completely irrelevant because the machine the european machine and the euro by which i mean the brussels machine but also at the level of national governments that will continue whatever the. action result is in the european parliament even if even if 100 percent of seats were to go by and by john get that that's untenable in the long term isn't it i mean that mean that is meaning that you actually genuflect to a democracy deficit instead of ignoring it you're genuflecting in front of a bad is not a long term solution to europe's problems go ahead john you know. europe europe's

problems are extremely serious and we see this is what i was going to say we see this in this election and in the fallout from the election particular of course in britain the fallout from bricks it what we see is what the great franco russian political philosopher alexander koshare have predicted he predicted that in a society in which there would be no more values no more traditional values that the only thing he said that would hold society together anymore was snobbery move and a city that wrecks it. some place hatred of the people risk hatred of the people who dared to vote against. you know a system of free lunches for the elite that has brought out people's fury and anger and their very clear anti democratic instincts they are determined as we know from the british vote but also from many decades of european experience to prevent the democratic voice from being heard so the problem as i see it is not so much

that these parties will not be able to work together because in a way it doesn't matter if they work together at the european level the dangerous slightly different it is that some of these protests parties may and it's not the case for farage but it may be the case for the national front in france and it may be the case for the italians maybe they are happy to grandstand on immigration and and being anti establishment without actually intending to go through with it and finish with the european union and the end of democracy that it represents in other words are they prepared these parties to go the. hold hold or is it just another political game yes it is it's politics it's as theater it's the theatrical debate it's a bit again that goes glenn that goes back to what i was saying well it's clearly something seems to be coming to an end but if you know what john just said right if it's going to be political theater. of stamping your foot in shouting slogans then

we have a bigger problem than we actually think go ahead. either way the some of the impacts on politics even though this is a parliamentary election or was one it was also entering general elections within the e.u. countries well i think britain would be a great example of this. if both countries now both parties seems to nar continue to polarize the result of this election so for some of the tories they are now being that if they want to stay relevant they really have to go after the votes but again as john pointed out are they actually going to follow through with the interesting thing is to as we all talk about how the tories have been crushed but the labor didn't do very well either i want to have one more topic before we end the program here we go back to john in france. for frau merkel made a commencement speech in harvard here i thought in the us which i thought people praised the larches the last year liberal standing apparently i thought it was

a shameful thing. a politician leaving power goes to a foreign country and insults the political head of state i mean if you like trump or not it's immaterial i thought it was really a lot a lot of taste and couth go ahead john. i didn't see the speech but there's no doubt that germany now sees herself and mrs merkel as an example of this as the leading power in europe and to some extent the world and this is one of the most amazing developments that is in a sense reported that germany regards herself as the leading power in europe and in the world and now. quote it's cloaked in liberalism you know with trump it's now left to germany to lead the liberal world but germany has structured europe around herself with federal or rather imperial style structures which suits her political culture perfectly and she is determined to be the leader of this system and thereby as she sees it as germany sees it to lead to the entire world and it's very

important that europeans and other. countries outside of europe understand that we are back in a sense in a very old conundrum in european history a resurgent many determined to make everyone do as they want and that is that is what that is it sent really now in europe that was very interesting because glenn i mean she she wants to. claim the mantle of liberalism but given what john just said right there democracy doesn't have anything to do with the anglo merkel and the germans then asked the europeans if they want to be part of this grand plan ok one last minute goes to you know all it rests on herself above the nation state and that's kind of the liberal dogma she is pushing that's real besides really liberalism in a year later they made a hole there so again the speech was about walls so she grew up by the berlin wall was arbab change is always good and now she asked americans to tear down this wall

of ignorance. and this is kind of what makes her this liberal hero she was are always bad and this kind of represent all historical nuances for that which is a ridiculous cliche ridiculous cliche yeah and it kind of reflects our liberal thought this openness always reach out but the liberalism itself is a cliché that is what has to be balanced with some conservatives in which you know was have a function as well you build up a distinctive community a family a large tribe if you want with your certain specific traditions something that binds us especially so you need this balanced. tween my walls and bridges so this for me this was this is just down suppose this liberal hero all like it's all i can say is people like angle merkel build walls around us ok that's all the time we have here many thanks to my guests here in moscow athens and in france and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time remember.

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