hello and welcome to all the part of the last day kate has seen many unnecessary awards but even among them the libyan catastrophe stands out as a one to loss of lives and infrastructure is there anything and anyone who can still put libya together again want to discuss that i'm now joined by i guess until i may have the united nations support mission in libya this is i'm as good to talk to you always thank you very much for the time thank you for inviting me now you know over the years i've interviewed many u.n. and a voice on syria and they all felt obliged to express their results about that mission but there was always the sounds of hopelessness of what they were trying to achieve and i suspect that you maybe even the more difficult position than that. it's not an easy position but a when i accepted the. job. a cold the unity of the security council on syria was not cool but the division

has been there since 28 government and. i told that there was superficial unity on libya what they discovered late there was this was really thin and one or the big event that unity can collapse and that's what's happening now with libya have been playing in the bus 2 months since the year mr half those movement against tripoli have been playing to produce a product from the security council and it does very very difficult so for now the united nations which you know represented is i would claim indirectly complicit in the disintegration of libya and by the time i mean the misuse security council resolution $1703.00 which was used as a pretext for violent regime change in that country do you think the. human still

has the moral mandate of trying to know how in anything. you're knowledgeable enough about the us to know that you can not go couple do you and in general i don't it comes to this it was a security council decision what i thought then about this resolution is very different they can tell you so it was a security council decision and basically the council is a present that there will be the will of state. of the united nation as an entity but also the collective security thinking of the states including the major states at this point. therefore don't ask people who work for the un about their thoughts sometimes are not to be was what the security council produces or doesn't produce well the reason i'm asking it

about this is because i know that you've been very disappointed by general haftar you over to alluded to that essentially it uprooting the result of your own work of trying to bring the parties together but wasn't his offensive on tripolitania in a way the replay of events back in the spring of 2011 when calls for pilot a call dollop were ultimately used as a prelude for you know lateral military action no i think the situation is very different in the sense that. you have you had the regime established for 4 decades and you had some protests against this regime and then you had an external intervention military intervention by nato. accepted or not accept the but this was a un resolution used to legitimize this intervention now you have

a completely different situation you have a government into probably that is internationally called nice since early 2016 and you have a challenger coming from the east in the present system they have many members of the words there have been throughout a number of countries in the world including of the security council supporting them so the situation is quite different somehow now what we need from the security council is not to call upon anybody to intervene militarily we were in the security council to cord for the strain for the respect and the arms embargo against all the but this appends you've been very critical of how open 3 the arms embargo that you just mentioned is being violated i mean it's done in all point of view for everybody and what i find interesting is that various countries who support various sides and libya i don't even using it as a pretext to wage allegations against one another isn't that an indication that all

sides to the libyan conflict have made peace with the war. all sides. are getting support from outside there are between 6 or 7 countries and 10 countries now sending weapons to libya recently some of those buses in libya wanted to boost the morale of their troops that they are not alone but they haven't international support so they won the extra my wealth not only importing these a.p.c.'s because it was basically apc's into libya but also all of the filming them and having given us a good late thing and all this in order as a morale booster for their own troops but from our point to. you this is a blatant violation we nor the location so far have been discreet way lesions in the open which perhaps suggest that all the parties while playing pay some

lip service to political process by the fasting that knowledge is always a logical for and it's not in addition of reason for the security council to react because the security council 1st does his duty to look after the peace and security in the wood and does now contain conflict in libya expand to the rest of libya possibly to neighboring countries therefore it is important that the security council takes care of it but on top of that these embody who have a relation that we are witnessing hitting the hope of the security council credibility so when i said yes to the security council your arms embargo is becoming a cynical joke i meant it because if people not only important but so it of brag about it and the security council does nothing what would be left of the

multilateral collective security council it will die but don't you think that this multilateral security council has already effectively rearranged itself because you've been very critical of advances on tripolitania but not of the un security council members including russia made very strong condemnations of his move in fact carol have to. receive almost a presidential treatment last month in in paris which i would say suggests perhaps all the major parties to the conflict may have to if you are exceptions are more or less ok with what he has been doing i haven't criticize most that have harshly i have just been faithful to the fact. i put them before the security council members some of them i accepted them some of them said yeah me have a behavior that is different that's why when you started this conversation i told

you i was counting on a minimal unity within the council what i'm discovering more and more is that on the one hand this minimal unity is more or less preserved but on the other hand many countries including members of the security council are behaving in their own way so it is very hard for me in libya to explain this to the libyans to explain to the libyans the why they hear gunfire is saying that they supported me that in fact they are doing their own things in libya you mentioned unity and i think we have their rare occurrence now that both russia and the united states which usually if find themselves on opposite sides in any geopolitical game they both blocked u.k. draft that resolutions on libya can downing general are. both moscow and washington seem to be ok with what he has been doing how do you

explain that do you see any convergence between how russia and the united states approach the events in libya. they agree on any fight against terrorists they be quiet but i would say not in alliance but similar they have similar attitude and they also agree on the necessity to keep the libyan oil flowing because this is important for the sort of oil market and also stability. and also for the food for the libyans themselves. now for the rest i don't think they actually more than that. but when it comes to libya i think that from my today's visit to to moscow a. more hopeful that russia. will have the realistic. assessment of the military situation on the ground and

why 2 months have passed since the offensive against tripoli that now they have an idea that is a stalemate and this stalemate. cannot remain a stalemate it will necessarily deteriorate in something else so it leaves a lot of room for that that is to use the libyan scene and in fact that which if you attacks in libya now has increased his attacks in the past 2 months 5 but that from dies on top of the. the escalation can bring countries through into the field day that plea and the conflict which means that other countries will also interfere so far it has been political diplomatic and was the exports of arms but i am afraid that one day will come with one or other country with the few basic what could

possibly spark that interact intervention if this is a clear defeat in the horizon for either side this could be the case now i heard you say before that gen doesn't have the support of tripoli but clearly the un backed prime minister fayyad us also rush doesn't have the support of the rest of the country in fact he has major difficulties exerting his authority even within the capital how do you think the international community at this point should approach you know they say game of ascertaining the level of support and who is legitimate to be in politics who is legitimate is a question that is crucial in libya and the one who needs to decide is the libyan people that is why we should carefully slowly gradually illegally go into elections today you have basically 2 parliaments you have basically 2 governments you have basically in me that does not consider the country's army by

the other side so everybody labels the other the way he wants because that is a very deep crisis of legitimacy and this crisis of legitimacy cannot be solved by going to be ins themselves that is. why the national conference we we're working on for a good 14 but it was delayed because of the offensive was meant to build the road towards the election so we sold not because i am fond of democracy or because i want to explore democracy everywhere this is not my plan but an old go to school with a very specific issue is the institution of the business at them and and libya well we have to take a very short break now but we will be back in just a few moments thank you.

china does not want to fight like we are supposed to fighting up at the same time we're not afraid of it china is bold and resolute and he's able to defend its legitimate rights and interests china is still holding the door open for the u.s. china trade negotiations if the united states wishes to proceed with them needs to be more sincere. what is it calling decline is magic internet money the new type of digital currency essential digital scarcity chancellor. of 2nd or bank that's called the genesis blog for reason because being a civil disobedience a source of optimism because i can control my own financial destiny it's just

a new way of coming to consensus is a game changer in the human history this is columbus discovering a new world this paradigm shifting technology that transforms economics and finance in a heartbeat the apollo 11 landing on to the root. that's max and stacy. welcome back to worlds apart until i'm a had of the united nations support mission in libya this is tell me just before the break we started discussing a conference which was a plan that by general advance and. he already gained a lot of control over additional territory. do you think whenever you bring that subject of a conference again in the future do you think he's territorial gains will in any

way change the juxtaposition of the. arrangement of forces sure that is the police they put forward and force a pretty for on many issues 1st that is now a thrust the has been sort of child trust was never there and leave. them in that whole war so you know we trust yes all of us that but we brought people together in the past 2 years we've brought people together 2nd it's important the people who are the stakeholders who are not present the noble w. or not present this with be no they're much part of the political process so the you cannot go into the political process without a suspicion of hostilities because as long as those that it is going on it means that one of the top of his believes that this is going to win which i don't believe is the case i believe that the choice is between the long war. it's

a situation of course that it does but not with quickly isn't that also true that one of the parties militarily has been much stronger than the other i mean the kind of really ignore the fact that general having started this small battalion has amassed a significant force that's been progressing towards the in the west of the country i mean he certainly doesn't look like somebody who wants to negotiate his position within the country's politics i agree with you however i think you would have to one day you would have tours with it i think reality the reality on the ground is much more complex than everybody believes it is true that a lot of that that it to the is now under his control but the true also that the majority of the population is not on that has controlled so far and. the the guys who are fighting against him with it generally be members of the groups that

are or the size by the international community in tripoli you have those or imprisons it will be those but you have also a lot of number or floor crew gangs local people local militias it's at that it's at the water not listed. at all by the international community so the spectrum or those who are opposing him into a bully is larger that is why the battle is more difficult and on top of that you have a lot of people coming from other cities from from misrata from the m a z group to the rescue of the youth india group so that is why i am saying the e.u. the choice is between a long war and this is sation a facility you often refer to you mr also russia's un backed prime minister for your own legal nights you have recognized the prime minister but obviously you know that many people in libya question his mandate he overstayed his mandate for a couple of here is that there is also issues about. his ability to exercise

control i understand that one year and speaks in his favor at the u.n. is actually no backing him personally but rather the process that the u.n. has launched but there comes a point when somebody has to ask a question about the i think it's an efficiency of the u.n. process i still sure that it's about the libyan people and not about the united nations it's institutional role and its reputation well if the security council doesn't take any measures in order to establish its credibility it was all these for your patience or go or of and violations of u.n. resolution u.n. security council resolution yes the credibility of the u.n. is a play now locally what we have is an international in the government i will not sing in your presence the praise of the government i will not do that because

of course that the government has made my life extraordinary difficult to push that government to work together instead of quarreling within the presidential council i have wasted a lot of my time still. you do not want to produce a vacuum you have your enemies when you should what we were working for was a replacement of the presidential council and it a placement of the present cabinet by consensus among the 2 large forces in the country that's what we will in a way i think for 1st by bringing the 2 assemblies together but they fail to agree at the end on the mechanism then we brought mr half that and mr severs together and the most crucial point was supposed to be the national conference in that is where in number of issues concerning the constitution the election there were 3 distribution with to be solved by the libyans themselves speaking about the labor.

themselves i heard you compare the libyan situation to the civil war in your name to flovent on saying that the libyans were wasting their national tragic you commit suicide and i think that presumes that or did they really be and still have a say about what's happening around them and to them is that really the case you know and ordinary libyans really influence the lands on the ground no i i tried to play the or pinion i have tried to play the academics the mayors the journalists the doctors the professionals the technocrats i try to tell them you need to sort of devise is. a concept of national interest that is different from the politicians interest. but this have to confess will take a generation because for a long time these 3 provinces forming

a surface that is almost as big as saudi arabia is too big for a population that the sketch was a strong local identities but we took care of them i mean the economic measures we brought to the dinar from $1.00 to $10.00 do not and they have to for me not we the price of commodities in september went down by 30 to 50 percent we are trying to have the national oil company remain united and preserve its and we did it was the oil crisis and the crisis in july last july and we did it again was the shut out of field in february so we are trying to put the national interest of the libyans independent from the maneuvers which are so often very mean of the libyan politicians let me bring you back to this question of people's participation because libya was raised to what it is today primarily because. somebody number

of countries wanted to make a battery and wanted to make it more democratic in those i would argue it wasn't such a horrible place to begin to as it was one of the most developed countries in north africa you see it on the border of many international institutions concerned with peace building and calls of prevention do you think the libya case all force any broader story about how to improve lives for people around the why was openly opposed to the war against iraq in 2003 but they went to iraq for the u.n. because they felt that what was done was done the plea was if it accompli now we need to help the iraqis rebuild their country. was not of this similar feelings in 2011 concerning libya but they went to libya because we need why. it is not

for the u.s. and it is not for it is because when you feel that you have a kid in the family that this says you do not say i go in to succeed or not this is i mean i understand your intentions but i think you also have to make broad their judgment in a made broader conclusions because if you keep committing the same mistake over and over again because as what kind of mistake did i commit trying not talking about young talking about the international community about the many western countries who believe that they have it in themselves the knowledge they expertise of improving lives because the micro saying that that was it was a was a mistake well they said that involves iraq as well there but that didn't stop him from improving or trying to improve i think it's by now those countries more reluctant to go into this kind of crusades i think the as

one by the way american observer once said we went into iraq and we all could buy the and it was a disaster we didn't go into syria and it was a disaster we went into libya but we didn't talk about it we left immediately and it was a doll i think you're referring to of president obama hero boredom go to full of gold well i heard president obama say something to them i said it was a mistake or maybe he said it was a mistake but what he amount was. the mistake you meant not the intervention nadab use of the u.n. security mandate but by not doing war post intervention then i want to ask a somebody who has very broad expertise in these affairs do you think the west could have done more post intervention to put libya on the right track once that he was murdered once he was government his army was disbanded do you think the west would have done more to improve life in the b.n. it could well what exactly could it it could have played the better. and

institution building not the west necessarily but if. you have allowed the sort of international organizations to come and help the libyans because libya libya is a country like by the way where you have a lot of traders already docked engineers that so you needed just some kind of. interest where it was needed i think in this kind of situation where it is crucial is police and justice police in order to have domestic police for people to move around and justice because they're usually after this kind of conflict a lot of cases before maybe once this was the case in the about and this is the case in libya i think if we had given more attention to that as international community that was crucial what was done was a regime change the rule of the you and that is stuff that this was not the best

way to go and it would have been probably best not to wound to the whole story but this is another matter well not that i think it is that he today can ask him very shortly you often talk about the impunity but there is also impunity about making that fateful decision about intervening in a troublesome but no other horrible country i mean there were issues legitimate questions with regard to the gadhafi government 1 but generally the country was much better than it is today do you think people who made those decisions about overreaching the u.n. mandate do they have to face justice. well not yet there in fact we'll be having that i don't know i don't know i think we're. into a situation where multilateralism does not fit with the way neither on the international level nor on the region and i see organizations that are not very

very operate in and it's not even about the multilateralism responsibility and democracy if you know where who wouldn't do that democracies in those countries i suppose at least democratic countries there should be some responsibility. mr sarkozy was defeated in the election mr obama that is that the only place you want when you want more no i'm asking you whether there is a responsibility for taking decisions that have major implications for hundreds of thousands of people there should be responsibility if you believe there was an investigation in iraq in the u.k. about iraq that led to some kind of blaming for the decision to go and for the kind of arguments that had been used but i don't think the international system today has a mechanism to look at this kind of decision in courage responsibility on the part of freebie and players if the international system this is my old one and this is

my or my role is not to add a new violation to the internet the number of violations of the international system my role is to try and convince the libyans look very very carefully at your own national interest your own national interests is not to fight each other to your own national interest is to unite and to rebuild your country and if you do with the international system will react to that positively but if you give those who interfere in your affairs domestic affairs the reasons and ways and still means to interfere nobody will stop the well necessary man. i wish you all the best lack in these very difficult that i take i would need that life i would need that's why i hope you get it at least from this capital but. we'll see what time will tell thank you very much for sharing things thank you i encourage our viewers to keep this conversation going in our social media pages and i hope this year again same

place same time here on all the part. where. nobody could see coming that false confessions would be that profile in the spock place the phone book of virtues if you look at any interrogation out there what you'll see is threat promise threat promise threat lie a lie a lie the process of interrogation is designed to put people in just that frame of mind make the most comfortable makes them want to get out and don't take no for an

answer don't accept their denials she said therefore with poor barry sanders statement that i would be home by that time the next day there's a culture on accountability and police officers know that they can engage in misconduct that has nothing to do with solving their crime. the russian and chinese pres. hail the current state of relations between their countries as shooting ping begins a state visit to moscow. a republican congressman defends a u.s. navy seal accused of war crimes saying killing civilians is part of the job.