hello and welcome to cross talk or all things are considered i'm peter lavelle on this edition of the program we discuss what drives the russia china relationship critics claim it is a marriage of convenience proponents say otherwise it is the pivotal relationship of the 21st century. and some real news i'm joined by my guest dmitri bobbitt he's a political analyst we spoke nick international and in london we cross to marcus papadopoulos he is the editor of politics 1st magazine hari gentlemen cross-talk rules in effect that means he can jump any time you want and i always appreciate only go to marcus 1st in london we had in st petersburg over the last few days a visit by the chinese president sealed some deal new trading deals with russia at

the same time we had this gathering commemorating the 75th 75th landing at normandy which 2 events of the last few days will be remembered most in history go ahead marcus well anyone who forsake and it's naziism who all who falls against imperial japan should be commemorated and should be celebrated its however ever since the end of the 2nd world war unfortunately in the west principally american influence and history has been really reasons because if someone some another planet and suit earth is able to spank that will suit and it's on the beaches of normandy which is absolutely incorrect it was only decent ones will load will suit was won and lost is on the east and fronts the battle in 88 percent of the consul was. let me put it in

a novel way before if german soldiers killed it was to. silence in the red army and it's the sacrifices of the great army that enable not to be discrete it's be destroyed and peter you and i would not be fastened this discussion. with the sacrifices of the soviet union exactly exactly well that's absolutely true also i would like to make it clear why the xi jinping did not come to france 1st they were not invited because it was supposed to be at their prime ministerial level for some reason this year and 2nd in 2015 when russia and china commemorated they were victory days in may and in september the end of huge tremendous suffering you know the 2 nations that lost moved during that war the western leaders didn't come our bomber was invited he didn't come to moscow he didn't come to be even though he was invited so now when they're mainstream western press is heaping all

criticism on trump well i think grampa has been behaving very badly in the last few years but it all started under obama so you know talking about this and they cheney's trade war and other things i think the relationship between their liberal establishment and trump is like the relationship between dr jekyll and mr hyde crump is doing all of this something that the liberal elite has started doing secretly but they are bombing did not include china in the transpacific partnership or that was armor and that was intentional absolutely he did not include russia he did not include china he did not include the 2 biggest nations or west pacific into trans-pacific partnership so it was clear that these partnerships would die and when trump killed that he basically continued what obama started doing. so

before you criticize trump who is misstep who is mr height looking to the molecules of evil inside mr jekyll is mr jake a life no this is this is the relationship between that liberal establishment in the united states and trump the l a law him to do unpopular things that they themselves wanted to do it's go back to london marcus it's not about china in russia i mean the critics of this relationship it growing relationship they call it a marriage of convenience you can also argue as i said in my introduction that it may be the pivotal relationship of the 21st century when what say you marcus well it was only in 2016 when i gave a speech at king's college london on russian sino relations in which i asked can the relationship between moscow and beijing become even close oh well freeze on some that space it has it is unprecedented it's high level and there are

a number of factors for that one of them is that russia has an extraordinary amount of natural resources and china lacks natural resources in particular and the chinese economy is made massively dependence on natural resources so the russians of course are supplying. gas coal and also water to china which is crucial for the chinese economy also china and russia are alarmed at american aggression in the world as a china is alarmed at the increase in the american naval presence in the south china sea china is alarmed at the american defense system in south korea and of russia is alarmed by nature in eastern europe but i'm not i know this is going to disappoint some people if they get the idea that russia and china are going to constitute take on american bankruptcy america is of course following the china name. the last achieve nothing short of an economic miracle and. it's

relationship with china so the chinese will not do anything that could jeopardize their economic so i would describe the relationship and china. something like. i think it's good for global peace think it's good for global stability and china more allies they are i think that's a very good point and i actually that is my position as well you know given we've heard a lot about this relationship and some people called strategic partnership there's been a lot of words ok trade is taking but it's still relatively small when you can compare the kind of trade that russia still has with europe so i mean our our actions now finally catching up with words well i think this is in fact coalition this union between russia and china would have never been possible if it hadn't been for the conduct of the west and i don't mean just the united states i mean

also the european union because you know the kind of articles that if all of these d.-day you know anthony beaver in the times compared to how much you know days of chain it was really disappointing to me this is a grammar story and he's related skills and he's an interesting historian but he's analogy was that russia and china are like the drama nonsense and tromp is is disintegrating the western alliance against them so he's misbehaving you know he is a new beazer and this apparently was absolutely wrong it's actually immoral the same parallel for all marked on the organ in the washington examiner. i am asking myself would american public support a more than phoebe assault to liberate a foreign country what if china seized the japanese islands off simcock 1st they're not japanese that n.k. bit and that i'll go to you know there's so many. there are going to go and then

what the frosh invaded the baltics would we start an in phoebus assault to help need to push them out of that these are provocative statements and unfortunately they're not mangia no they reflect the mainstream the mainstream over there or the western media so in these situations when the united states and war against qual wait and see and then overall they're all the media outlets c.n.n. is writing that these squad waveband research showing and showing the country wide slowing down countrywide adoption in the united states over the 5 g. so maybe we will be legen behind china cold now even russia not usually thought of as a leader maybe poised to pull ahead and quote so that the states and the leadership of the united states in the big i mean an impediment for technological

development i mean the trade war. that you just mentioned enemy turn back to london markets here it's built into the mix that russia and china are the enemy i mean look at this this is this preparation of the of the populace. to d.m. russia and china in really together all my goodness you know threatening western institutions and their way of life i mean just a very rhetorical pitch tells you a whole lot about the policy perceptions will we have the united states changing its foreign policy and defense postures assuming that the the adversaries that they will fight is not the war on terrorism because it was never a war on terrorism but now great appear power confrontations which of course keeps our defense industries well well paid ok and if you invested in those companies you're going to make a lot of money go. marcus well i think that american politicians little want

services really are lectures creatures because undoubtedly there are some who do believe in china are going to seem up its hate on america and what is their fear because of that that the russians and the chinese will impair america's ability to wage war around the world what's wrong with that. what you're on with that had china the north at back i seen it all continental army 35 years on a likely united states unlikely you go and marcus go keep going well i mean it is stomach turning that these people in america on capitol hill they want to continue ruining people's lives they want to continue destabilizing the globe and stability and stability and they fear that russia and china could prevent them from doing it it really is and in 30 wells and the commentators that dimitri just referred will person i wouldn't give them any ads whatsoever but these are the same people who

don't question how bill clinton said that god told him to bomb serbia or how george w. bush oh how adults hold g.h. w. bush to invade iraq or how my own putrescent he said donald trump was all to protect israel from iran these people are serious the silence on what i would describe as critical comments yeah all of the you know demon i mean the imperial endeavor is a bipartisan i'll give you the last word in this part well right now there russia cheney's trade is one $180000000000.00 and usually the critics point to the fact that a lot of its energy a lot of i want of it is energy and the critics point to this fact saying all their american cheney's trade is still much bigger well 200000000000 so it has already been import you know. 10 us who are imposed on that plane to 5 percent 300000000 are under threat of status so if the united states. and if their western wall at

large continues behaving in that way russia's trade with china will grow ok you have no experience in h.r. i want to thank marcus papadopoulos from joining us here in london we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on some real needs state with our.

lists lists lists lists claims. lived. and very well might continue watching on since last. welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing some real news. and now we're joined by alexander macarius in london he is a writer on legal affairs as well as editor in chief of the duran dot com all right let's go to london alex i know you heard the 1st part of the story of the program here let's continue with the russia china story here it's kind of flip it from what

we've talked about with marcus papadopoulos i mean really what is stake here as i said in my introduction this may be the pivotal relationship of the 21st century because what you're essentially is in process of being played out is the integration of the your out your asian lands. landscape where we have you know in economic integration. very little competition between russia and china actually there working together that is a world historic event in itself and it actually happened in the 1990 s. remarkably under boris yeltsin this is what the u.s. it it's fear most is the integration of the of the part of the world in the popular population of where the there is the essential what is growing the global economy this is what they want to push back against go ahead and london yes this is exactly right peter i mean he's the joining together and seek economic integration of you

regime as you correctly say this is what china's belgian road project is principally around we see discussions about uniting that union find that with the e.u. range an economic community which the russians have built we see we see railway lines not being discussed we see massive point lines that are now coming into very soon coming into action transporting russian gas. or you all to china we see talk about joint ventures to develop the arctic and the vast arctic reserves of gas and oil that the russians have we see talk between the russians and the chinese to uniquely unify their e-commerce systems and china is very advanced in that field and russia much less so but we see that happening we see discussions about between the russians and the chinese to develop joint aircraft projects they will be

co-hosting the max 2019 air show in moscow i mean this is a gigantic enterprise and if i can just say something about some of the themes that were discussed in the 1st segment really interesting comments about d.-day but here we see the western allies looking backwards exactly one team 44 under chinese and the russians looking for it into the 21st century the contrast could not be great and they mean to stay with alexander macarius in london i think also with this. belton road initiative i think what also the west is wary of is that it's the demonstration effect or nothing succeeds like success because we have countries like italy for example getting involved in this initiative in certain sectors if this takes off and does come to fruition it will have a demonstration effect and erode what. the remaining western institutions like

they have a form of germany this is what they fear they fear success go ahead before i go to . absolutely that's exactly what they're afraid of very they look at this gigantic your asian economic and political system that is being created and we should talk about a system rather than an alarm. because are entirely indoors that you that this is not directed against anyone exactly west westerners lesson to see this and it means that they are no longer west is no longer at the center of the economic and political universe as it has been in fact potentially eurasia would outmatch them an economic resources now an intelligent policy would be to partner with it to join in with

a long way instead of what what they're trying to do is they're trying to obstruct it but with every step they take to obstruct it they should increase the inputs both by the chinese and the russians exactly you will see it because what the russians and the chinese the fun is that they can trust each other and work well together they can't do so to the same extent when the united states or with its european allies in the west anymore they have a very good point considering what the european union did to ukraine in 2040. a lot of critics of us here you know a lot of critics say that china russia is getting involved in a relationship with you know we can find our lines where in our partner whatever ok but the kind of working with china the way they are the russian will inevitably be the junior partner how do we have to the world there was such a danger of the west is liquidating this danger by its own actions and was

originally this so-called new silk route was very much supported by his beginning of brzezinski because what later became belton rolled initiative was opposed to war through the central asian republics former central asian republics of the soviet union do they care span and then why are there are still europe. look what happened suddenly china saw that the united states and the west in general ease of the sort of a. instability they've started to trade war the technology war with wade was not china who started this confrontation china try to make peace and few observers note of this bug. after his meeting with putin he goes to be here goes to do sean bear their capitals of the central asian republics very smart all the xan try very strategic get organization meeting i advise our viewers gold to the documents

go to the resolutions of shanghai cooperation organization c.s.t. or extra security treaty organization and compare them to there is allusions of nato from nato it's all of us with threatened russia is a threat chinese a threat. is facing enormous external pressures see a stool or shanghai cooperation organization we're not directed against any country we are fighting terrorism while fighting extremism we cooperate none of us is the big brother none of us is the biggest of on it's all of the western press that says china is the biggest russia is the biggest one and and look at their economic results you know basically china is no reorienting its its trade routes to russia because russia is a reliable partner unlike their allies over the united states it will not go away it will not for example for the u.s. for the u.s.

sanctions against iran as their european countries basically did you know despite all the rhetoric from the european union that aviation is it shows there's. absolutely. a chinese side it's a very pragmatic racial approach if we're treated like that in such a coastal way by the united states if you is spineless then russia and the eurasian you. oh yes they are there to hear it while we go back to london now alexander again i think the way that the united states and its in the washington consensus let's put it that way they seem to want to create a 0 sum world you're either with us or against us and essentially having 2. 2 mega civilizations the west in the in the in the chinese world in its orbit here i think that's what they're driving and they're trying to make countries side with

one another which would be well counter productive instead of looking for a compromise and trying to find our mutual interests it is actually looking for confrontation it's either us or them go ahead in life that is exactly what the united states does it looks at every single development around the world we which is not directly involved and it sees a threat and if the united states wants to create a situation where the chinese and the russians both start to see the united states as an adverse certainly that is exactly what the united states will achieve by treating them in that way now the chinese and the russians have both repeatedly gone to extraordinary lengths to try to reassure the united states that they are not adverse to resent the united states seizing plane went to

visit donald trump's soon after don trump was elected the chinese and very very successful trading relationship with the united states just as marcus padley job was said the russians in the case of the russians mr coote in to the annoyance of many people still refers to the americans as our partners they still don't want good relations with the united states has. the united states which 1st insisted on imposing this you need. on the world. that. is trying to shape it into a bipolar prudes human really new order to enforce strict to block this upon those countries which it continues to call its arms you know to me you said something and i like to expand upon it i mean when i asked you would brushwood become a junior partner in this parlay here and i think you should kind of reiterate i

think it's really hitting the nail on the head is that there is a trust there's a chinese russian trust right there where there is trust in this relationship there is a lack of trust which when the chinese look at the united states when russia looks at the united states and its allies there's an enormous amount of distrust because words and actions are never matched to hardly ever manage trade in business very rarely you have junior and senior partners because both partners are necessary for each other your sale and something to another person or another company he is asked necessary to us you are right so that kind of relationship does not presuppose you know seniority with the west it's a different story because we have the 3rd to tell you terry is and we've had quite minister then it has and we've had not at that the let there in years now would have altered a new girl to 30 tearing as in the west it's very funny when they call china and the authoritarian state. put him in jail. simply because she

talked to some people in the republican party you know even the girl and she just you know we tried to imply in some american political culture in russia you know namely. the same story with. discourse jean-paul and who spent 3 years jail without. you know all and all the charge of influencing poor british public opinion in the ways useful for russia that's now a terrible crime you know in point so the west has slowly become to put it there in and into that it tends. to make an entire program on that one sentence that we have run out of time here i want to thank i was going to be curious in london for joining us that's all the time we have many thanks to my guests here in moscow and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. the next time remember.

you know to go 2017 the german newspaper developed published an article claiming that the european union the last 30000000000 euros as a result of its very anti russian sanctions. particularly affected eastern europe many polish vamos went broke and he committed suicide. sometimes i can't recall that i was i was of on the good. will put on the ground on the.

young. stuff. as a kind of unknown. and then let's see in the. song the smiths. and doesn't dance with all the folks in the. you know world of big part of. lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smart we need to stop slamming the door. and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks.

to get up off the ground serve begin to pay down the. democrats on the sounds of men and maybe a grown man with misleading essentially. john. pushed it away from the officer. of his group. they obviously did a kind of lunge for the web in one smith's and then when it happened on she swung at the observations didn't hit him i never saw any contact with. any kind went back to where they were so the answer is back here they're trying again 15 feet apart at this point and that's when the officer is gonna need to turn 3.

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