they decide with. darrell davis musician who convinced 100. members to give up their robes joins me today to share his story. despite decades of victories for the civil rights movement america's race problem is still permeating the fabric of society with hard line rights groups bringing race into the spotlight again. with the parallel white supremacists and right wing is. backfiring or provoking an extremist response can racism in the u.s. only be confronted with militancy. in the method of calm conversation and gradual away. without provoking fun. darrell davis musician and author of the book climb the same relationships welcome to the show it's really great to have you with us sotero you are quite famous for befriending k.k.k. members and in many cases your friendship resulted in them living in the klan you

wrote a book about it so when you were starting to work on your book did you yourself have any preconceptions about clansmen on how many of those stages are eventually. well yes i did have some up preconceptions about them because you know as a child we hear things like a tiger never change its stripes a leopard never changes the spots so why would i think that a klansman would change his robe and hood so i had no intentions or perceived ideas that these people and i think all i want to know from them was how can you hate me you don't even know me just tell me that and i'll be happy but through the course of conversation and dialogue we began to humanize one another and we will find if you spend 5 minutes with your worst enemy you will find

something in common if you spend 2 minutes i mean 10 minutes you'll find even more so if you nurture those commonalities you are forging a relationship if you know which are the relationship you are then forging a friendship and so that friendship the things that you had in contrast so such as skin color or whether you go to a church a temple a senate or a mosque begin to matter less and less so they be ensuring that ideology so over time just over 200 members have left i don't want to say that i converted them but i was the impetus for their conversion they converted themselves you know as a result of the dialogue that we would have yeah but but what came before. when you said i want to sic i want to say converted well that's how it looks like that you sort of converted them but those that you did convert so to speak are not real

racists from what i understand because if they were for real they wouldn't be talking to you i mean. so where does this collective bigotry come from if it is so is a later spelt with a good polite conversation 5 or 10 minutes you. see. you are a rational person so therefore you're looking for rationale yes these are real racist people indeed there's no question about it if they weren't they would not be in the most racist organization known to this country the ku klux klan i so yes many of them are very hard core racists but the reason why some of them will top know there are those who would not talk to me out of fear of me out of thinking that they were that much superior than me and didn't have time for me or whatever but those who did talk to me yes indeed were racist but they did not feel that they had anything to lose you know they wanted to demonstrate their superiority over me we just why

they talk to me but over time they began to find out that we have more in common than we had in superiority or inferiority so what were those people like tell me more about them were they hard core extremists all of them like to say or was it more like a religious or political assembly. all across the board a klansman or clans woman is not stamped out of a standard cookie cutter for example become for all different walks of life some joined the klan because they're more politically motivated you know they want to run for office and institutionalized racism others are hardcore streamlets they want to get in there and do night writing but at night time bomb churches and you know hurt people and things like that so they come all across the board you have people who are white separatists and you have people who are white supremacists so

when you were 1st invited to return to a k.k.k. rally going all alone i mean there must have been like staring a hornet's nest were you scared at all. no i was not scared you know when the leader. invites you then you're ok because everybody there is going to do exactly what their leader told them to do or not to do so you know even though there were those who resented my being there they knew that they'd better not do anything or the leader would have consequences for them so because i was invited by their leader they complied. so you said that when you heard roger calley the leader of the maryland k.k.k. talk he said things you didn't agree with but there were also things you grade on what were they this is correct well for example we both agreed that we need better education in our school district for children eradicate drugs from the street

there's a drug epidemic going on in the country so we sound things and promise everybody needs education a white drugs do not discriminate it will take a white person out just as fast as they would take a black person out so what i did was i found that we had in common and. you know what this guy says the same way i do about a lot of these things and i would create you know the 1st steps. so tother my education you also sad that hate comes from ignorance and we hate things we don't understand but if you look at david duke the prominent white supremacist politician i mean he's got a bachelor's in history and i heard that they're educated people a master's a great all in the klan as well as are a special kind of ignorance in plays and one that's not addressed by

a formal education so to say. sure there are people who are extremely racist and have. been have the highest office in the land so to speak won't name anybody but david duke. is a college educated man we have had we have had. 2 presidents at least who were in the klan president harry truman joined the klan for a very short time. before he became president he didn't like it he got out president warren g. harding was sworn into the ku klux klan in the green room of the white house supreme court justice hugo black had been a klansman he had to leave the ku klux klan in order to sit on the supreme court senator robert byrd who was our oldest living senator here in the united states who passed away just a few years ago he had been a klansman back in the 1940 s.

so they come from all walks of life from the 3rd grade dropout to post college degrees but you know it's how you were raised that that lasts with you your entire life so they had this ideology for a long time regardless of how much or how little education they may have had. you sad that racists should be given a platform that their ideas need to be challenge in the opening for instance in the wake of their white supremacist attack in new zealand the official response was pretty much to go for censorship so do you think that even the ideas that leads to human deaths shouldn't be censored. i think what happened over there was it was a definitely a tragedy no question and and that guy needs to pay the consequences you know for what he has done but i do believe in giving people a platform we have the right to hate in this country but we don't have the right to

hurt so if they want to talk all that stuff that's fun but when they crossed the line and began inflicting damage or hurt upon somebody that's where it stops that's where the platform ends and they are prosecuted but we need to know what people are thinking because if we ignore them that doesn't do any good the ku klux klan was formed in 1865 where are we now 2019 while this still here because we have ignored them we need to listen to them find out what's going on what is wrong oh in their minds what is it that they're fearing and then address those concerns that's what i do and that's how i've been successful in influencing people to convert themselves have you ever met white supremacist hardcore announced that you went like oh no it's

a smash and cannot be helped yes absolutely i've met some who will go to their graves being 5 and hateful and racist absolutely there is no changing some of these people. well for somebody. to sit down into all. possibility. absorb information. carol we're going to take a break right now when we're back we'll continue our discussion. and the way to tackle it was darrell davis our and then musician who doesn't. stay with us.

we had one man 3540 years old. it off this child in the water. some 30 fisherman well this judge later in this letter. addressed to. me that eva elements of the had. allowed one of the wealthy will stop when and what they meant and. i believe that this is one of the therapy is. tama. absurd really harsh things that happen in life. that. just driving the trumpet ministrations iran policy is confusing contradictory

and even incoherent would be an understatement as members of his administration beat the drums of war the president suddenly injects themselves into the conversation with the words to the concord what is the world the thing. descriptions sound up to tasing even for the owners so how to choose just pet food industry is telling us what to feed our pets really more based on what they want to sell us than was necessarily good for the pet turns out pet food may not be as healthy as people believe we have animals that have you know diabetes in our stride they have auto immune disorders allergies we are actually creating these problems it's a huge epidemic of problems all of them i believe can be linked to very simple problem of diet and some dog owners so heartbreaking stories about their pets less treats

the larger corporations are now. because they're already making dollars on it and there's no reason to do that research. or back. in the who had k.k.k. members of their ropes to him discussing the problem of racism in today's america you've been criticized by some in the black lives matter of movement as willing to sit down with the enemy and legitimize to give them

a chance to say hey we're not races we're just spoke to a black guy so do you feel that you actually are giving these guys a good reputation by you know interacting with them in some way. no because i've been at this long enough to know when someone is trying to take advantage of me for their own publicity or their own game i know that game very well so you know there are some who may try to do that but i'm well on top of that and the ones who criticized me you know you said the blast was better movement. last july's matter is not a centralized organization there are many many many different groups a blast was matter and they all autonomous i have some in detroit and new york who contact me and say you know do you do workshops you teach us how to do what you do

and there are others who simply will be apart so there is no cohesiveness within that movement unlike say the n.w.a. c.p. or the boy scouts of america we have one central organization and policy is created here and disseminated to all the chapters so everybody is on the same page. so white supremacist and far right groups have existed in record for ages but the crips emerging now adays claim that there are a reaction to movements like black class matter to the new theory and somewhat radical civil busy rights activists is it a fair is it fair to attach some of the blame for the rise of extremism to bail them and its brazen confrontational ways no not at all and of course you know people always want to blame somebody else for their issues i can tell you what's going on here in this country. as you probably know. whites

are a minority globally but in the united states lights are indeed the majority and they have been so ever sense for 400 years but by 2042. it will be like this whites and non-whites it will level out 50 percent white so percent nonwhite by 2042 and then shortly thereafter it's going to flip for the 1st time in the history of the united states whites will become a minority so white while while there are many many many white people who embrace that change they realize that you know things evolve and they welcome that change they as a percentage of white people who do not embrace that change and they are very disconcerted about it and they're concerned that they're losing power because they have sat on the throne of power for 400 years and now they're thrown legs are being

chopped off and they're being lowered down to the level of what they call the inferior people the brown people ok so they don't want to give up that power and that's why we're seeing more and more lone wolves going out and shooting up black churches shooting up sort of gods or these groups creating mayhem trying to start what they call rocco up or the race war robbo i mean this racial holy war so as we get closer and closer to this shift change we're going to see more and more of that unfortunately which is why it is impending up on us to address these issues now and not put them on the back burner we should have been addressing them in this country decades ago but we failed fee. you have the patience and the strength to sit down with con members with arian brotherhood in talk sense into them but black

lives matter are about different kind of racism police shootings driving while black black incarceration and they soak us on racism in the system not just in french radical groups to using what you do you can how cops restrain themselves when dealing with black people or have you ever try to get a racist cop or chides or community at justice to. listen i just met last night with our chief of police where i live i meet with him the 3rd thursday of every month and so yes police can change too and they definitely need to hear these conversations no question about it. forms of racism where the system it is situational. or you know overt like the k.k.k. or neo nazis you know having their little rallies in the park or whatever all of it needs to be addressed and there is no one way to solve the problem we have to do is

we all have a responsibility to make our country the best it can be but we have to work together in concert with chief this and we don't she but by putting each other down and criticizing with somebody else's doing those people who want to work with with the systemic racism that's great that's fine and they need to ok i work with individuals now i can tell you this. system does not run itself is the people behind the system the individuals that control the system thus systemic racism so if you change the minds of the individuals then you change the mind of the system it. so in the me 2018 paid a visit to the national museum of african american history and culture was your friend richard preston the klansman who shot at a black man touring the charleville rally do you feel the man showed any empathy

they make and dance and his perception of reality absolutely sure did i talk to mr preston every week ok he and i are very very good friends mr preston was able to see things you know he still has a ways to go i don't know don't get me wrong you still has a ways to go but at least now he's going in the right direction and again that is a result of sitting down and having dialogue. right but in the netflix documentary about you he say the marilyn clown chapter pretty much fell apart after he got roger kelly to give his rope to you however mr preston seems to have raced abolition chapter i mean this makes you literally got a 4 year ago had. ok. when when roger kelly with the plan he did not pass it down to the next in command he disbanded it

and it was it was gone there was no more coup plus planned in the state of maryland for almost 11 years. now that does not mean that there were no more racist america there are plenty of racists in the state of maryland where there was no organized racism no k.k.k. . but 11 years later richard preston decided he was going to create his own plan. it is a very very small clan so it's not even considered a group it's not even chartered it's not even read just like a kelly was was but so a question here you might as we'll yes russian bear a broder character i mean on this small example this just makes me wonder did you ever feel like no matter how many people you've a friend or a convert there are always be someone else to take their place oh sure you know

that yeah it's reducing is reducing but yeah it's not be like that for a while until people become more educated about racism and begin to have more and more of these conversations as long as we are talking with people with whom we just agree yeah you're always going to have replacements but the more we can feel let's talk about this etc then we will see it vanish i don't think racism will be here forever now there are people who would disagree with me it would be here for a while but know the more we address it and feel open about it yes we are eradicating it that's my opinion so you testified on preston's trial and is a fan sent 2004 he also testified intercessor chester dole unit leader for ash alliance and class men with a history of violence and both men showed no signs of remorse about their deeds but

you still call them friends choosing they were saying do you as a friend or as a convenient p.r. tool. no not at all both men are indeed my friends and what happened was just a dose happens to a lot of people black people white people whatever when when prosecutors don't have enough to put you away with with the evidence that they have put you away for as long as they can what they do is they throw a lot of charges on you and hoping that one that's one or more will stick and you'll get that. just there was definitely guilty of some of those charges but there were others that were placed upon him of which he was not guilty and those are the ones to which i testified because even though i may not have agreed with his ideology i don't believe. in falsely listen charges against somebody

or accusing them of something they did not do. and which are president's case i can tell you right now. richard does have a ways to go but had that had that man been a white man with a flame thrower pointing it at his klan group but your precious still would have fired the gun. so i know i know richard very well and i know chester very well but talk about friends how did your african-american friends react to you standing up for haters like that because there are no known haters in public did anyone ever accuse you of some kind of the trail or somethin. my friends know because my friends know who i am they know what i stand for and they know that i don't stand for racism what if in like that and i do not stand up for racism i just say we have the right to hate we don't have the right to hurt so while i mean i like what some

of them are saying or what some of them are doing i will defend i will defend their rights because if you take away their rights it won't be long before mine or yours can be taken away now those people. people who don't know me yes i get a lot of pushback now understand something if i were to run across a picture. i will black person shaking hands with a man in a robe and a hood i would have a visceral reaction like what the heck is going on here but maybe i would read the back story to find out why is this happening oh ok i got it now very interesting there are some people who read the back story and there are others who will go no further than the picture they would jump to conclusions this person is and is a race traitor is a sellout he is a disgrace to our rates without even knowing the back story and i have had some of

those very same people who have accused me of that later come back to me and say we understand you know case in point you mentioned the netflix documentary you saw that's their year and later those same people reach out to me and we had dinner together and now we better understand each other they don't agree with everything that i do but by any means but they understand the work that i'm doing and they appreciate it and big great we all need to work together to do the best that we each are qualified to do. tara thank you so much for this wonderful entering and for everything here doing for mankind actually good luck with all your future and i'm sure you know these are great questions you have thank you that's all about my team they can be happy to hear much thank you so we're talking to darrell davis was a great musician and author of clandestine relationships discussing their roots of racism and best ways to deal with it that's it for this edition of stefan call so

next. why a paradise with some ground turned into a round the experimentation field for agricultural chemicals we know that these chemicals have consequences they are major irritants there's no question otherwise why would that the chemical company workers themselves be geared up that suited up locals attempt to combat the on regulated experiments but often in day you have many of these people where one foot into the biotech pharma and the other foot in

the government regulatory bodies this kind of collusion is reprehensible while the battle goes on the chemicals continue to poison hawaii and its people so one has to ask the question whether there is a form of environmental research going on in hawaii whether these companies feel they can get away with this because the people have less political power. joined me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to us of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see of that. that i would go to the barracks or have to go behind or to feel very precise about how to argue. every does that mean it's. just

a city the letter should it. be so much because we moved. to nominate the fish you know not just go from home in israel. they are the house from. god since we. need to go to me you don't need. this kid who in the. middle kind of prison system definition in ahead and innocent in the news to him. quick now for those italian want to keep their savings or put it into big. confiscation of the government or the vatican runs the country over there and you'll preserve your wealth and jurisdiction that respects your sovereignty as an

individual and respects your wealth don't live in a country that's just going to rip you off blindly. says he cooled off a strike on iran the last moment after he found the number of possible casualties. president putin pounds russian air laws from flying the citizens to georgia after mass protests in the capital tbilisi. student claims that he was kicked out of class up to saying there are only 2 genders he see. telling him oh. i knew what you think and i knew quick. thanks for you if you want to clear up very clear that you meet new discrimination on the grounds of. discrimination and.