this extremist almost in the state non-secular and all thanks to mr moody who has now been the treated his vision into the fabric of indian society i think this crisis unfortunate as it was exposed the changed pakistan worse is the changed india and if i were the world i would be very scared of what i see in india right now for both leaders it was definitely an opportunity to exercise leadership and they chose very different strategists one of them chose to flex muscles the other one i thought relied more on his weight do you think that's more reflective of the personality of the 2 leaders mr modi and mr han or is it indeed more long term reflective of the country's national standing and national post. personalities certainly have a role to play i think you will hear more than mr const personalities mr moody's personality which has had a rule to play in what india has become in the last 5 years i've been screaming at the top of my lungs for the us by years that india is being let that literally it's

playing with fire and it will not be able to put this genie of extremism back in the bottle because once you allow people to become so extremist in this thought process in their action in their reaction then that becomes you so india is no more the secular shining rising india that we thought was possible and the prime minster were crimes from the moment and it's a very different india and pakistan i think the process of the reintroduction of democracy and the political parties maturing has had a huge role to play in that and i think you saw the parliament acted in reacted to this crisis it was restrained it was considered it was debated the prime minister supremacy confound it very easy to take this posturing which was what the parliament and the people of pakistan wanted so it's actually a reflection of changing society behavior and changing national priorities for both countries it's just visible to. perhaps from this incident while. what is

also visible to people like myself is that india is a democracy it is facing a major parliamentary election in may which may explain why prime minister modi may be more motivated to burnish his strongman image i've also heard people say that this could be something more long term this could be a change in india's a military strategy in becoming more assertive what do you think is more likely do you think it's mostly political or do you think it's indeed strategic. look i think it's a bit of both ok because. in a rather stunned really election really prime mr moody using the images of people who who passed away in the incident so it is bringing nationalism and the military right in the middle of politics ok that's one secondly again people like myself have been observing this since perhaps in the months since time where the deep

establishment in india is becoming more and more powerful i remember the time when they wanted to solve the dispute and promised a moment singh was very keen to do so also but was held back by what i can call the deep establishment in the india so in some ways you know i even tweeted about it you see india and pakistan fall into very different trajectories we are moving a v. from extremism into a moderate progressive hopefully a developing society and india is moving 2 words a very very belligerent aggressive extremist india and i would just a little bit perhaps disagree with you when you see this is only election related because the lynching of people the whole process of using we reap and pellet guns a state policy into smear and really very aggressive behavior towards muslims whether they were in mumbai or your push me or do you or anybody else this started as soon as by mr moody came into power well not that hard the pakistani government

is also accused of major human rights abuses on its own territory so let's not paint it black and white but i'm more interested in the political angle of this whole skirmish because when the security and the sovereignty of a state i directly engage there is always pressure on latest to respond in a mass killer and symmachus way in order not to look weak and yet prime minister han * went out of his way to stay conciliatory do you think his response where have been the same if he like his encounter. we're facing an important election no this is what you we really need to understand about pakistan pakistan has changed on that ground pakistan no more considered and the more city against india encouraging in the mostly among to its nationals against any one of its neighbors as a good state policy right this is where pakistan is very different than we than india

right now because i think we've learned our lessons from history and therefore we don't wish this upon india also because if they go on this trajectory unfortunately they will not be able to be responsible players in this region this region has suffered for far too long because of this ongoing conflict between these 2 giants in the region you know if you look at any progress that the street and could potentially have made we've lost out ok i think we need to fight wars against poverty against giving education to our people giving help opportunities giving economic opportunities it's really sad if in the neighborhood as large as india move towards this extremist belligerent aggressive nation because it doesn't do any good to any of its neighbors and least of all pakistan well i agree with you that the indian response was quite extraordinary because there were suicide attacks before but it was the 1st time that indian fighter jets crossed * deep into pakistan since i think the and 971 into pakistan of what how much of

a shoghi thing though is indian air raids were to the pakistani political leadership you know interestingly i think with prime minister mu the being in power for the last 5 years in india we in pakistan were prepared for anything which is unreasonable which could be avoided grabber and close to the election coming in march and we were we were quite mindful of the fact that any incident will be perhaps manufactured or created i'm not pointing any fingers over there but it will be used as an excuse to do something very irresponsible. because the extent of the responsibility of this act and then the extent of the of the nature of shipping and the lies which have now been exposed internationally it has actually damaged india's credibility far more than the length and breadth of the selections so very responsible people in india perhaps now we can up to that realization and you know very responsible voices from india also pointing out that we need to stop looking

towards pakistan for indigenous problems because what has happened in push me the reaction of the kashmiri people is because of the very strong state terrorism or aggression which has been. pointed towards them in the last 5 years now i don't want to go into a blame game right i don't want to say you do this we do that i want to see that these 2 countries are far too important for the region for their own people and for the world we need to really come to the negotiating table and really have uninterrupted and uninterruptible don't know because dialogue is the only we to really of conflict long term this contract position of 2 nuclear states whose purpose is it serving it serves no one it just creates a lot of negativity within the region and keeps the region and these 2 countries from going forward while again one version that i heard in the pakistani and international media who is interested serving it at least initially were intended

to serve the interest of their ruling party in india it's too early to say conclusively have this point of time but do you think this incident will end up helping mr modi's electoral chances or g. think it will and hurting him look i saw a route which is report recently which clearly says that his. numbers are getting better right after this rate and you see him in the electioneering process really using this as as an. as a powerful tool. would be very the never know how elections turn out and we never know how politics play out because now in the last 23 days you see some sanity emerging by no means about the killing 300 people in pakistan when they did those have been completely debunked by international media and international organizations so it's really going to be anyone's game but obviously mr grimes to

move the is trying very hard and it's quite sure that this will assist him i can also see how it will assist him because in the last 5 years he's made a very ultra nationalist. ultra extremist sort of narrative shipping in india has now almost become very ingrained it's dangerous for india as it. is dangerous for pakistan now you mentioned before the role of the media and how differently they cheer countries in gauge the media because india almost immediately closed of this side of the suicide bombing attack whereas pakistan around the country invited media over to this side of the strikes to undermine the indian damage claims i wonder if this is perhaps an eel area of foreign policy or of diplomacy for pakistan in gauging the international public

opinion much more practically and by the use of not only traditional but also social media you know i don't think it's about public opinion that we don't think it's about pakistan was able to you know do agree drawer at a p.r. handling i don't think that you're handling it says this i think this is a changing reality excesses and i think pakistan was just able to engage of both the world through its changing reality and i think the importance of the state in the world depends on its credibility that now the credibility of india through this whole crisis and. how they managed it has actually been reduced to a very very low number simply for the fact that every claim that was made by the establishment by the military by the indian politicians by the indian media has actually been proven to be incorrect satellite imagery has proven it to be incorrect though everything that pakistan was seeing could be proven by exposing them to be a little on the ground and therefore pakistan was meche more keen to engage with an

awful bindiya and international media because what it was seen could be corroborated by facts on the ground now this is a very dangerous situation because if a country feels if the people who are in power in that particular country in india for instance feel that they can for their own people into this ultra nationalistic you know jingoistic reaction by feeding them lies and then the media picks up those lies and multiplies the many times then what are you turning your population into and how are you expecting them to react to a neighbor like pakistan because then everything that happens in india is immediately put on pakistan short or this is a dangerous dangerous trend and for a country as ours is india aspiring to be a security council member to lose its credibility this march and to be using lies and manufactured events both in front of international for forget the media international players and its own people i think it's very very sad and i don't

think this plays on well for anyone even pakistan should not be happy by in india which is choosing to exit in such a manner we don't want to embarrass them while madame hard we have to take a short break now but we will be back in just a few moments. my. my . a paradise with some ground turned into a round the experimentation field for agricultural chemicals we know that these chemicals have consequences they are major irritants there's no question otherwise why would the chemical company workers themselves be geared up that suited up locals attempt to combat the on regulated experiments with often in day you have

many of these people one foot into the biotech pharma and the other foot in the government regulatory bodies this kind of collusion is reprehensible while the battle goes on the chemicals continue to poison hawaii and its people so one has to ask the question whether there is a form of environmental research going on in hawaii whether these companies feel they can get away with this because the people have less political. interest rates spike and gapping in the spread is widening and what i call the interest rate apartheid if you're in the wrong side of the friends of jeffrey epstein you end up in a bantustan of extortion ery credit card rights if you're a friend of jeffrey abstain then you get the insider rate of negative and you get paid to lend money or to borrow money excuse me from from the bank.

welcome back to worlds apart a bit here and that rabani khar pakistan's former foreign minister and a member of the national assembly madame har while the. current episode seems to be defused the initial premise for the attacks remains that is militant groups which india considers terrorists which the united nations considers terrorists operating in a pakistani territory do you think that could lead to the tensions flaring up again in the future look i hope the initial premise as it existed 10 years back has

moved a long long way and you might have the luxury to be able to ignore that i unfortunately did not have the luxury to simply for the reason that pakistan the last 10 years has for 70000 of its citizens trying to find these very militant groups that the world claims we have done nothing about pakistan has lost 70028000 soldiers paramilitary forces fighting these very militant groups scoots the pakistan like india the state cannot do everything at the same time right now the premise of this particular attack being manufactured or planned or emanating from pakistani soil is entirely incorrect and it has almost been proven to be incorrect not to use anything that happens indigenously because of state policy because of state terrorism in kashmir as a tool to whip up a stand is obviously not fashionable or allowed or will hold because eventually all

of us have to look internally pakistan as a country to do by the way which is a change country we are all confident enough to look internally at the fault lines that we had that we are trying to correct we're trying to protect minorities better we try to protect the i.d.p.'s the people who were displaced because of military action against militant groups in the fatah region which is now. and everywhere and the fabric of our society has suffered because of that so this to be told for a country which has suffered so much and frankly speaking most of it for your sake or for the militancy or anyone else is sick but for own sake we had to correct meaning of the mistakes that we made in the past and the last 10 years we have started the journey of corrected them rather quickly now i think in some ways this incident perhaps gives the world an opportunity to be able to look slightly more deeply. into what pakistan is today and not to judge pakistan by what it was during many many past 3 genes which were not democratic and then have speaking about this

change pakistan dainton prime minister when he was. responding to this just share of goodwill on the part of your country at the release of the pilot sat in our previous straightforward and i would even say threatening way that this was this whole skirmish on the border was just a training practice and that quote the real thing is yet to come is there any point beyond which pakistan will not be able to maintain its conciliatory post ciarán look pakistan as a policy not by accident did 2 things ok but the sun did not remain conciliatory to the extent of allowing india to enter its international borders its territory and exit without there being a little you should be retaliated because we had the responsibility to protect ourselves a little bit you also sought to deescalate would be a point when you will be much less motivated to do that this is exactly what i'm

telling you so we'll let them nor that if you can do military adventurism we can also do it on the side no i am very very concerned about the prime minister who can 1st of all use that type of language about talking about. you know military adventurism in the way that this was a pilot project you will see what will happen even get into your houses who are those who took him to get into anyone's else's international borders the security council doesn't the un charter doesn't international law doesn't so what my my reaction to your specific question is that if there is result to military adventurism i think all of pakistan's dense united behind its armed forces and i think our armed forces if anything have displayed that they don't need to make stories about what they've achieved but be able to actually achieve did we do any chest thumping. we're going to fight the fight to you know i to be in stone of capturing the pilot we actually turned the pilot into hero and forgot to celebrate

i won't buy that we don't that mean simply for that reason because we did not want to create this war hysteria you know we sent it by lit within 48 august back in to indian territory this is the difference in approach is that the 2 countries have it with you on the difference in their approaches but i think they were the kind of world that they believe in is not always in compliance with international law or even the african norms i mean there are a number of countries in the world that allow themselves the right to strike targets in somebody else's territory israel would be why the united states would be and the other if india precedes with these kind of approach in india is a much much stronger state than yours i'm asking you not as a social commentator but as somebody who used to be in charge of these very very important decisions how much will be too much for pakistan because there's always a limit to everything in my country and you know from its recent experience you can

see that sometimes when you are being pushed too strongly you will retaliate and respond and sometimes that responsibility not to somebody else's liking 1st of 4 so far i think india being militarily but strong holds of course it is a much bigger country and it spends far much far far far more than pakistan don does on its military much as international opinion completely in a different sort of direction ok so simple the simple answer to your not so simple question is that pakistan will not be in the military adventurism into its sovereign dead tree if that happens pakistan has not only the right but the responsibility these understand this we have the responsibility to react all of pakistan stands as one the parliament has made exactly the scene. this given the same direction in its resolution the national security council says exactly the same thing in its meetings with the executive the parliament and the people of the

pakistan stand behind the armed forces because armed forces of popular have now acted very very responsibly and we know this isn't this is the united nations against belligerence i can assure you this episode has put pakistan i think strongly bonet pakistan together and i think it's probably too many pakistanis that pakistan stands together as a united front pakistan is a far stronger an issue and it's much bigger an issue that we're talking about one of the most militarized regions in the world with a very very high security presence and i think it's a valid question how would a young local man and we're talking about a man in his twenty's who is believed to be this initial suicide bomb attack how would he be able to source 750 pounds of explosives to carry it out one that being the interest of pakistan to find out and don't you think that your country should be perhaps

a little bit more forthcoming in offering its assistance to india to deal with this major terrorist issue in the indian controlled kashmir look i think we have been more than forthcoming to the extent that the indian media and the indian politicians have used it as pakistan coming to its knees wanting to negotiate asking us over evil him but they will actually not so this is all a narrative shipping and i think pakistan has said at every forum from every level the police we would like to assist you in this give us some credible evidence we would like to move with you we want to fight not to fight terrorism we want to discuss terrorism with you because we all have different versions of who is a state terrorist and who isn't right so look on this particular incident this particular incident the intelligence that one has heard so far and i'm not in government i don't have access to in the end. diligence percy but from what i have heard from credible sources is that the mood in kashmir because of what you can

only call staters and really high handed behavior when major listen and you will go into much into d.d.'s if a major of the military of india puts a fish meat in front of his jeep and takes him out and allows him to be stoned and he becomes a decree to men this is telling you what india has done in that country in that region if there is anyone within that area to a pakistan who has assisted who has help we are not supportive of anyone who assists while it's anywhere be it inside our borders or outside that's a change but the stand that the world is perhaps taking too long to accept because you are judging us by a few this repetition the not being able to understand that in the last 1015 years pakistan has changed direction and pakistan has credibly strongly with monthly falling trying to completely d. you know human it extremism from all parts of our society now let me ask you one

now one more question about an important player in the region which is the united states i've heard some acts where it's claimed that this indian pakistani issue didn't dissolve on its own that the trump administration in gauged in some quote quiet diplomacy behind the scenes which with this white house is hard to believe both when it comes to the word quiet and when it comes to the war diplomacy what are you hearing in islamabad is that true ok so again i need to remind you i'm not in government so i do not know exactly what and where but from what i know and from what i see starting from president i'm calling it a calling attractive news coming in from the subcontinent after this conflict you know after this crisis erupted which is obviously indication that the americans were playing a role and then he went on to also say that we are try. to speak to both parties and we are hearing attractive news so he was obviously talk talking about american role in trying to diffuse the situation beyond that also we also hear that 60

pompey are also played a role so look when 2 nuclear stand eyeball to eyeball then of course the world would choose to try and deescalate the situation i thought the world could have chosen to do it earlier we should not have even reached this point but it's important that we understand that we have been very restrained we have been constrained we have been very very careful and all of that but. with a country as large and as military a military really sort of. or or a villain let's say because i don't know about this is that hasn't shown much but we're lindo as india to be as aggressive and as belligerent in this mindset coming all the way up from the prime minister to the smallest media house in india and meeting to the rest of the population is a very dangerous trend and i met them high e.s.p.

as you've been trying to say throughout this interview countries change pakistan has changed significantly so can india not only here for the worse but also for the better so let's hope that they may elections perhaps a bill and make it a little bit last villager and but we have to leave it there it's always a pleasure talking to you thank you very much for being so generous with your time that you to be bankers are here is to keep this conversation going in our social media pages and i hope to see you again same place same time here on world apart.

good for the sense of those 2 syllables. i built for sunday and this is. the world's going to say the course of business with a must do to it look. this is an english. not a slow slow slow slow slow motion i am. on . the case in that book i'm going back to the bios to look at the model your body has to follow its most of its own for most of the show such as the moon souls and. moon new one

you must. move. cash cow and. alfonzo are among. those changing to a change guard serve our. whose 1st words were at a lower c.r. a challenging post you've got to use to me as. i have no doubt that what happened was criminal. let's concentrate maki 1000000000 dollar industry these huge financial motivation

to solve these problems there are numerous showing that doctors were keen to test concentrates for insights of its own that patients won't gives them doctors the wrong quite. why they would keep me sick each of those years. and people still die i don't know which question michel i find being hard to leave so many. other her.

you know in the room. losing it all. among the stories that shape the week comin to russian pilots pull off an expert emergency landing to save their crew and passengers lives after their plane suffers double engine failure during takeoff. a medical examiner rules that the death of the disgraced financier geoffrey epstein was a result of. the tycoons lawyers though say they're not satisfied with the conclusion and intend to carve their own investigation. on the islamic state terrorist group say's it is behind a suicide blast on a wedding ceremony in the afghan capital which.