one more turn to create a work of those in the shadows where bringing in the pieces together is often ignored and officials take the credit but not today i talk to a french businessman who takes no glory in saving lives and in conflict. here expert in peril diplomacy chairman of brazzaville foundation today. with international mediation politicians and career diplomats feel to it conflicts forces come into play working quietly as private citizens of the spotlight growing mistrust and blood feuds patiently bringing warring parties to the table why does parallel citizen diplomacy work will. do the people willing to work. with

the promise of nobel peace prizes or t.v. and how do they get the job done don't you thank you very much for being with us today thank you for everything. to be in such an interesting profession i want to know all about it so you are a noted negotiator lots of success stories in africa i know that you're now trying to get sites in libya to sit down and talk i mean in a way you're more successful than united nations at least you're getting these guys to sit down and talk. with you the issues as you would need united nations but also somewhere somehow i needed those. 2 forces which. working palate so you are right now talking about putting down the barriers of mistrust in libya but those barriers are where actually put up way before you and for the reasons that are beyond you what makes you think that an outsider can bring them down. first comes the.

knowledge of the country and i know as a country. since my 1st trip to libya was and then $69.00. and better also so he spect was a condition and is always a completely leaves and. going to one. why it all off i think where all countries affecting over libya why not giving. me to it to exist as a voice and to jointly express what i would like to do is a home country she's my aim is not to make peace east to create. the fundamentals to create. for. peace this is

what i'm trying to say what kind of effort do you have to make to actually bring this people together in the same room bust. class is always the big word yes he said he went but it's essential what they have done for libya for example is a following i think tied to look i don't the 5. is a general scope of politically. 2 extremes of the scope and i for i found bishop was aids and very close to their feet and a large ability of belhaj was formed it was thought to but to fight has got to fit him since he has years of 70 so. and those odds are to expect the one who uses it will never talk together because. one accusing the other of. the worst things and. so i put

them together how how by convincing them that their meeting will be not to discuss . the past and what these won't but to see what they have in common what they want for income and what is that point of conversions as far as the v.a.'s goal. is concerned and the knowing is a point of difference off of point where they don't like leon and it happened. of course they will accept any city caused by their own people or as a people of a fellow else how can you meet a man who can you see to his belhaj how can you see to be sure sonny but foams that meeting. ziyad agree on very simple principle the future of libya. is a visa should be one country should be sea region government should be an army will respond to civilian government so this should be an independent judiciary because

this is something that's what i'm saying like this is something that international diplomats have been trying to do forever and you're just saying you know i convinced both sides that they shouldn't talk about the past just talk about the future and the common goal of libya this is a very simple straightforward formula that other diplomats use as well i still don't understand how it works out when you come in a dozen when other diplomats to you must have a key that others don't know what is that key thing i ever keep the one i have a pass to meant to give them some kind of guarantees what. you could have. handled the beginning because it could have left it shows i left a 5 minutes no problem easy. once you have when you are not an institution when you are not a government. your voice is your voice it belongs to you and if this trust in your voice zen people accept to do sings they would not accept was

a situation we believe it is this is a difference we can between palin diplomacy and enjoy official diplomacy. the office of diplomacy is one line everybody talks the same way it mean nobody can have as an individual opinion they have to express what was it. the others or is it the early for that me i am not bound to that i can i can have i can do what i want when i want and people believe after close me. just one example in south africa i stopped. dialogues between white and black by an exchange of prisoners and other than 60 people 5 countries involved 5 country and forced. to place it in. my beak it happened very smoothly everything went right

not one document was sent there is not a pepper. which has been set everybody rife with his address was in plain stupid but back to back of the prisoners everybody believe that it should be issued arrive at that time and be part of that that. not one people. and that it was involving millions country like hans. south africa now media mozambique. so i wonder if it always goes down so i had a friend an american friend who was working at the fall of apartheid in south africa just like you and he was telling me you know every time he's in the conflict resolution as well and he was how we know every time i go for a new job i have this feeling that i know what to do i know how to fix it i know it better and after 3 years of being there he was like you just fall into this state

where you understand you don't know anything and you probably will never understand anything do you ever get that feeling when you go to a new conflict to a new country where you feel like i know it i'm going to do this and then you're on the ground and you trying to do your job trying trying trying and then at the end of the day you like i just don't understand anything and probably never will you with this. so it's good they had some success. but they also say to you i have big figure i pod to fix. so of course i am. my success but why is to give a chance to to the to peace to give a chance to peace doesn't mean that you get on t.v. that you will bring peace but at least you give a chance to achieve peace this is what i've only tried to do with no guarantees

that i will succeed so i am much more courageous and much more ambitious than if i am seeking ways and i'm going to succeed or not she's not my issue i am not sinking was what i was a chance what i was a statistic what that was a possibility for me to succeed and not interested i just say shall i do i have enough elements in my hands to try to bring peace. do i have elements here. are my going to put them aside to not doing what they want no of course not i go for it this is their s. life danger at any point in your line of work where you feel like sense of superiority here i am white man from the land of prosperity and peace i come to you party squabbling our solve your pain because i know better does do you ever get that feeling because it's dangerous there's a there's

a fine line when you have so much power and trust. in your hands and you can make the processes move you can get that sense you can yeah sure i don't you don't have i am very as i don't believe that i am to sure of what i'm doing that i am as i am president is it. is it and i don't know the world in english i'm sorry as i adopt about what i'm doing. just a feeling of superiority can never. because if i doubt that means that they don't have a sense of superiority. and i never go resistance of. people knows that you know we are dealing with men we do mean we human and sometime we have to put the sides of paper and document. z. explain the. whole explain the issues. to to get.

also a human side in the piece because everybody will use. people who. is a muslim to be the most wired cocktails somewhere somehow was hoping for peace and want peace is it easy even it out of your body. i think maybe something good when worst and sense of security that a lot of big powers get while they're going in conflicts is ignorance because right now we see a lot of politicians. they don't have the understanding of the region when they actually act in that region they don't know the complexity of the fragility of the places that they affect for instance i remember president obama saying that not lack of planning in libya was probably one of the biggest mistakes of his presidency just recently norway admitted having no idea what they were doing when they send their claims to bomb libya and we see that happening actually a lot where does this i'm

a tour approach come from i mean should they elected leaders be sent to some mandatory job or political lessons about the world because this happens all the time you know when you when you start to do something and it's valid for government all individuals don't cause i. don't. see it twice before you. he needs a bad and you replace it by the worse and this is unfortunately what's happened more and more in ins in a question that i guess you you you want to check to take off of because of bad but you're replaced by something worse at the bad you have taking off and for me of course how can you avoid that you avoid it by i think o.c.d. asians z.z.z. . because when when you leave a conflict by keating and there's a conflict when you when you you you you solve

a solution by kidding another of the people you face but when you deal. with. the c.d.c. as if you've bought do you really want to build a future together then you are avoiding. a place to go from bad to worse mr olivier we're going to take a short break right now while we come back we'll continue talking about harold the promise and what is it and is it more effective than the official diplomacy stay with us.

in the. meeting what does it. just. how long. is enough. but i'm also the most companies you know. when i meet all. these companies humans get almost human nobody goes from didn't you know it's risky to see music is put to you if you're a coke. machine live in the you kind of this. little kid is. always stay in the i'm not ok. so.

this is the poseidon adventure mixed with the titanic one colossal sinking of the global economy right now we've got donald trump starring what the ghost of paul newman on the bridge of the titanic watching as they engineer colazal failure of the global economy. join me every thursday on the all excitement and i'll be speaking to us of the world of politics sport i'm sure. i'll see you then.

and we're back with joan if only yeah expert in peril diplomacy and the chairman of the foundation and i remember you expressing your opinion in the early times of the syrian conflict escalation you were about wrote about wars of good versus evil. that was you rightly said that you know that you said that this is led by us and they can longer force on everyone because balance of power is shifting so i always think of why does the united states still go over and over again for the same strategy of fighting the black and white good versus evil wars when it has brought all the asli so much misery to the world and to themselves in the 1st place why not

to me to answer to this question here introduce limit. to me. why should a express an opinion on the rabble of any kind know i. am getting worse as it will worse yes. i am just saying we have to be very worried. that you we by taking something badly placings by subsidy given us and this story as proof that some of the actions taken by this one those. have been the placing something bad something event with us. we leave that to the 20th century and. those mistakes because while as you said about president obama they were not planning after what do we do after how out and for me i am taking this after as a very fundamental bass. after has to be

a consideration is it is a consideration they can be a change of opinion it can be democracy at last i'm not talking about western democracy or eastern democracy or specifically little possibility the ability of the people to decide of their own future and that can only be done. before they considerations here and that is a real so you just mentioned earlier in the into that parallel the promise in official diplomacy it's pyro because they go without crossing pass so that means that you're not part of the system right official system there that this stablish meanwhile when you do your job as a diplomat but a lot of your success stories in the african period they were tied to it all they were tied to shock seen you kind of are in the system or are you completely not part of the system. after certain moments it's time for the system to take over. that's for sure i am as

i said earlier i am not here to make peace i am here to facilitate peace. is going to make peace izzie a situation because you need 20 agreement it's one which i am not thinkable to to take so yes after certain moment there is let's say if. some people accept it some countries accept it there is a like of communication and. takeover by country of 2 brings everything to lose if in the finality when i did so because i feel which led to the independence of namibia and for the 1st time as a cuban and the american was sitting at the same table with together with the south africans younger than it was i have the political has been signed. it was taken by the un and there was

a big show in. the un for the signing of the agreement i was not even invited i want to invent it nobody invited me when they all know that i was initiated this is because this time at a certain moment the official take over and i don't pretend that i can replace what is off the show of course not i am not here to the place anybody i am not here to to do. to i am here to help to assist not to replace did the official diplomats listen to your advice as an outsider or do they really try to shut you down because it's competition then we have to go back to the human nature i have extolled the need for friends with our diplomats and zander stand what i do and prove what it. of course. they belong to as i said feeling. myself probably not but then again it's not white and

black it's i have very good friends we have diplomats they had. and they have no problem with them because it is really allies that i bring some seeing. over should be progress but of course it is situation we don't like me maybe they don't like successes or has have your political convictions or i don't know moral convictions ever get in the way of doing the job as a imperiled diplomacy for instance this guy i cannot talk to that want to talk to or whatever you feel personally please always irrelevant if you have to make peace and make people reconcile. there is not one person in the planet has so little if you sort of course never one. as criminally can be i will accept if he is a d. to talk about peace i will talk to him of course in the beginning of the interview

said that i bring fighting sides to one table because there is trust you know they trust me and they trust that you know with they come together it's going to be for the better of the common cause does this always work how do you make people who are not willing to reconcile change their mind or this is only work when they actually do want to negotiate deep inside you see this is a technique between rickles. when i did i did the 1st conference which is in may in the car which is called now that i won because hopefully we are going to have a deck out to. i get invited people said i didn't know all the people would say but i've done. i went to beijing sally i went to a billet village and i said please convince your friends to come to the conference

so exam. and been convincing their friends to come to the conference so i was not exposed as a person the test was. jumping jumping from one person to the other but at the end of this way also because if i would have been the one who'd been travelling with my legs and going to to see the people i want to invade to convince maybe i would not have succeeded because it dawned on me and of us of me they who were his white men in the in the libyan conflict as you say. but if i am using somebody was done by that. that's a different push this is something which is you don't very briefly when i started to be interested in africa i had a chance i was very young i was 20 i was i was invited for dinner by a very fantastic men we were president of a device if you want to cause. any and invite me to have

a luncheon he was listening to me and i wasn't recessed he got a call in what i want to do with africa an hour into africa i was there and as the end of the dinner he said you weren't interested was a fake i am going to give you only one advice only one never enter an african village if you are not accompanied by somebody who is known by the village. and they have apply. all my life is. a caution is the. beginning is never given by myself is given by somebody who has a test of a person. and it works so i realize that there are no guarantees of any kind of anything when you get 2 people when you get people in the same room that have been killing each other for such a long time it's always a big deal that they sit down but what is the success rate usually those people who

have been feuding for so long ok they're in the same room what is the success rate after they start talking have you i'm sure you've. already there in your personal theory i don't i don't count ok but let me tell you something. dialogue is a most essential thing because that means easy and accepted to meet. it has been a patient was a meeting is not is not. no idea what they're going to discuss your bed so indeed a cli indeed take the dialogue has been established between them by me most probably most of the time for me so. don't. have before they meet have evaluated appreciated. that it was going to be very be still very solid i was already but i never

experience. a moment we are putting 2 parties together and no one is left never explained that they might not and. it did happen in the car one when after mrs. delegates. accepted to be on the plane that charter i've been that guy but when this all was going to be their homes i said no we cannot sit there with the same people in the left so. the. ways that. i never experimented but do you know like gestures words that are it already like signal to you that there's going to be a deal here do you feel yes dance or are this like a center for ages and is when you're intervene. you know you're on the toilet. he manes as long. as it is not. beginning or slight of

conflict your positions then yes you have to intervene and calm down and tell people but geez what do you mean she's what do you. know that they may be you you can match and. you feel it you. knew you feel at the time. you you sure you should. and having yes would you work on a complicated conflict like syria and if not then what would you advice people to do that no i would never work on the conflict because unfortunately syria is going to be young people of syria of syria. i still believe that the libya yes not yet live and where it goes beyond the people of. the people of syria as a pretty people of syria too doesn't count i mean it's. so what will

be my role to. syrian government. in the u.s. government and. i don't have a key and. i cannot. give up i don't know. well good luck in the cases that you are involved in i'm sure they're going to be successful like most of the cases you have undertaken think you're much but this is thank you very much it's been a pleasure it was been a pleasure for me to. so we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy. let it be an arms

race off and spearing dramatic development the only personally i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time to sit down and talk. in this community and there are people who believe that it's ok to sell fractional food on my table it's really hard there are no jobs and you see that i've got kids and ask and as a parent. i can come up with lots of arguments there's a lot of time. late in the game between the 2 most of the conflict i would say revolves around money and most of them money is made. close one on each other does he know each other is good business the state of california alone makes

$6000000000.00 a year of prison complexes you get so when you live where. you don't care. for the symmetrical response to the latest u.s. missile test that as russia warms the un security council of a new arms race is not taken. we are one step away from an arms race that cannot be controlled regulated in any way the united states will not remain a party to a treaty that is deliberately violated by russian. conservative activists in the us celebrate to offer a court agrees to reconsider a case accusing global temperature like google and facebook of conservative. couple whose child was severely malnourished after being placed out of. jail but a hand of community service instead.