can bring them down. first times or. the knowledge of the country and i know as a country. since my 1st trip to libya was and then $69.00. and better also so he spect was a condition and is always a completely leaves and. going to one. while all easy to show off i think where all countries are fighting over libya why not giving really begin to proceed to have to exist as a voice and to jointly express what they would like to do is a home country she's my aim is not to make peace east to peate. the fundamentals to create woods for. peace this is what i'm trying to say what kind of effort do you have to make to actually bring

these people together in the same room bust class is always a big word yes he said he went but it's essential what they have done for libya for example is a following. a tie to look i've done to 5 injured is a general scope of political the. 2 extremes of the scope and i thought i found bishop was aids and very close to. their feet and a large ability of belhaj was formed it was thought but to fight has got to fit him since he is the age of 70 so. and those are the 2 weeks or so as a someone who uses it will never talk together because. one accusing the other of. the worst things and. so i put them together how

how by convincing them that their meeting will be not to discuss. the past and what he's on but to see what they have in common. what do you want for in common what you want of course versions as far as the v.a.'s goal is is concerned and the knowing their point of the. point where they don't like anyone and it happened of course they will accept me because by their own people or as a people of a photo else how can you meet and how can you see. can you see sunday but homes that meeting ziad agree on very simple principle about the future of libya. is a visa should be one country that this should be a civilian government should be an army will respond to civilian government so this should be an independent judiciary because this is something that's what i'm saying

like this is something that international diplomats have been trying to do forever and you're just saying you know i convinced both sides that they shouldn't talk about the past just talk about the future and a common goal of libya this is a very simple straightforward formula that other diplomats use as well i still don't understand how it works out when you come in a dozen when other diplomats to you must have a key that others don't know what is that key thing they ever keep the one they have a past 20 do them some kind of guarantees what. of course not so there's no guarantee you could have given checks ahead at the beginning or they could have left the shows are after 5 minutes no problem is. once you have went you are not an institution when you are not a government. your voice is your voice it belongs to you and if this trust in your voice sent people accept to do sings they wouldn't accept was

a situation we as it were is this is a difference we can between palin diplomacy and andrew fishel diplomacy is the office of diplomacy is one line everybody talks or same way it mean nobody can have as an individual opinion they have to express what was it. the others or early for that me i am not bound to that i can i can have i can do what i want when i want and people believe after class me. just one example in south africa i stopped the dialogues between white and black by an exchange of prisoners 160 people 5 countries in force 5 country and for. us to place it in. mozambique it happened

very smoothly everything went right not one document was saying that he's not a pepper. which has been sacked everybody rife with. planes to be put back as a back of the prisoners everybody believe that it should be issued arrive at that time and be part of that that. not one people. and that it was involving millions country like hans or south africa now maybe mozambique. so i wonder if it always goes down so i had a friend an american friend who was working at the fall of apartheid in south africa just like you and he was telling me you know every time he's in the conflict resolution as well and he was how we know every time i go for a new job i have this feeling that i know what to do i know how to fix it i know it better and after 3 years of being there he was like you just fall into this state

where you understand you don't know anything and you probably will never understand anything do you ever get that feeling when you go to a new conflict to a new country where you feel like i know it i'm going to do this and then you're on the ground and you trying to do your job trying trying trying and then at the end of the day you like i just don't understand anything and probably never will you with success. so it's good i had some success. but they still say you. i had big failure i tied to fix conflicts which i didn't succeed. so of course i am. my success but why is to give a chance to to the to peace to give a chance to peace doesn't mean that you get on to that you will bring peace but at least you give a chance to achieve peace this is what i'm going to try to do with no guarantees

that i will succeed so i am much more courageous and much more ambitious than if i am seeking ways and i'm going to succeed or not she's not my issue i am not sinking was what i was a chance what i was a statistic what i was a possibility for me to succeed and not interested i just say shall i do i have enough elements in my hands to try to bring peace. do i have elements here. are my going to put them aside not doing what they want no of course not i go for it this is their s. like danger at any point in your line of work where you feel like sense of superiority here i am white man from the land of prosperity and peace i come to you party squabbling i will solve your pain because i know that or does it ever get that feeling because it's dangerous there's a there's a fine line when you have so much power and trust. in your hands and you can make

the process as movies can get that sense you can yeah sure i don't you don't have i am very as i don't believe that i am to sure of what i'm doing that i am as i am a person who is it. is it and i don't know the world in english i'm sorry as i doubt about what i am doing. just a feeling of superiority that can never. because if i doubt that means that they don't have a sense of superiority. and i never go resistance of. people knows that you know we are dealing with men we do mean we human and sometimes we have to put 2 sides of paper and document. z. explain the. expectations. to to get.

also a human side in the piece because everybody will use. the people who are. the most worried to be the most wired cocktails somewhere somehow was hoping for peace want peace. i think maybe something given worst and sense of security that a lot of big powers get while they're going in conflicts ignorance because right now we see a lot of politicians. they don't have the understanding of the region when they actually act in that region they don't know the complexity of the fragility of the places that they affect for instance i remember president obama saying that not lack of planning in libya was probably one of the biggest mistakes of his presidency just recently norway admitted having no idea what they were doing when they send their planes to bomb libya and we see that happening actually a lot where does this i'm a tour approach come from i mean should they elected leaders be sent to some

mandatory job or political lessons about the world because this happens all the time you know when you when you start to do something and it's valid for government all individuals don't cause i. don't. see it twice before you. he needs a bad and you replace it by the worse and this is unfortunately what's happened more and more in the us you you you want to check to take off because of the bad but you're replaced by something worse at the bad you have taking off and for me of course how can you avoid that you avoid it by think or see asians z.z.z. . because when when you leave a conflict by keating and those are when you win you. over solutions by

kidding and those of the people you face but when you deal with the issue with those he should be seen as if you. want to build a future together then you are avoiding. a place. from bad to worse here we're going to take a short break right now welcome back we'll continue talking about parallel diplomacy what is it and is it more effective than the official diplomacy stay with us. this is the poseidon adventure mixed with the titanic in one colossal

sinking of the global economy right now we've got. trump starring what the ghost of paul newman on the bridge of the titanic watching as they engineer. failure of the global economy. and his community there are people who believe that it's ok. it's really hard there are no jobs and you see that i've got kids and ask and as a parent. i can come up with lots of arguments there's a lot of conflict in the game between the close of the conflict i would say. money . close one on the children's. is good because the state of california makes $6000000000.00

a year of prison complex just to get some point where. you don't care. tony. i'm a little but i think. one. body. or i came from me as i knew she needed that name of community yeah i am kind of.

a he made the move a little bit of that young enough. and we're back with joel if only yeah expert in peril diplomacy and the chairman of the foundation and i remember you expressing your opinion in the early times of the syrian conflict escalation you were about wrote about wars of good versus evil.

that was you right and he said that you know that you've said that this is led by us and they can longer force on everyone because the balance of power is shifting so i always think of why does the united states still go over and over again for the same strategy of fighting the black and white good versus evil wars when it has brought all the asli so much misery to the world and to themselves in the 1st place why not to me to answer to this question you're a true diplomat no i'm not to me. why should a express an opinion on the battle of any american no i. am very sure says it will worse yes. i am just saying we have to be very worried. that you we by taking something bad will be placings by subsidy given us and this story as prove that some of the actions taken by this one those. have been they placing

something bad something event with us. we leave that to the 20th century and. those mistakes because while as you said about president obama they were not planning after what do we do after how out and for me i am thinking this after has a very fundamental bass and after has to be a consideration is it easily cost addition they can be exchange of opinion it can be democracy at last i'm not talking about western democracy or democracy or specifically democracy. of the people to decide of their own future. only be done. evil hate considerations here and that is here so you just mentioned earlier in the into that parallel diplomacy in official diplomacy it's pyro because they go without crossing pass so that means that you're not part of the system

right official system there that this stablish meanwhile when you do your job as a diplomat but a lot of your success stories in the african period they were tied to the hall they were tied to shock seen you kind of are in the system or are you completely not part of the system. after certain moments it's time for the system to take over. that's for sure i am as i said earlier i am not here to make peace i am here to facilitate peace. is going to make peace izzie a situation because you need 20 agreement it's one which i am not thinkable to to take so yes at a certain moment there is let's say if. some people accept it some countries accept it there is a like of communication and. a takeover

by country of 2 brings everything to the feel of finality when i did so. which led to the independence of namibia and for the 1st time as a cuban and the american was sitting at the same table with together with the south africans younger than it was i have the political as been signed. it was taken by the un and there was a big show in. un for the signing of the agreement i was not even invited i want to invent it nobody invited me when they all know that i was initiated this is because this time at a certain moment the official take over and i have don't pretend that i can replace what is all for show of course not i am not here to the place anybody i am not here to to do. to i am here to help to assist not to replace to do the official diplomats listen to your advice as an outsider or do

they really try to shut you down because it's competition then we have to go back to the human nature i have extolled the need for friends with our diplomats and zander said what i do and prove what it. of course. they belong to. myself probably not but then again it's not white and black it's i have very good friends we have diplomats they had. and they have no problem with them because it is really allies that i bring some seeing. of the progress but of course it is situation we don't like me maybe they don't like successes or has have your political convictions or i don't know moral convictions ever get in the way of doing the job as a in peril diplomacy for instance this guy i cannot talk to that want to talk to or

whatever you feel personally is always irrelevant if you have to make peace and make people reconcile. there is not one person in the planet has so i would have a few sort of course never one. as criminally can be i will accept if he is a lady to talk about peace i will talk to him of course in the beginning of the interview set that i bring fighting sides to one table because there is trust you know they trust me and they trust that you know with they come together it's going to be for the better of the common cause does this always work how do you make people who are not willing to reconcile change their mind or this is only work when they actually do want to negotiate it inside you see this is a tactic between records. when i did i did the 1st conference which is in

may in the car which is called now that i won because hopefully we are going to have a dugout to. i get invited to peoples here and the north people would say what i've done is i went to bishop's alley i went to a billet village and i said please convince your friends to come to the conference so exam. have been convincing their friends to come to the conference so i was not exposed as a person the test was. jumping jumping from one person to the other but at the end of this way also because if i would have been the one who'd been travelling with my legs and going through to see the people i want to invade to convince maybe i would not have succeeded because it dawned on me and of us of me they who were his white men in the in the libyan conflict as you say. but if i am using

somebody was done by. that's a different that bush says something which is you don't very briefly when i started to be interested in africa i had a chance i was very young i was 20 i was me i was invited for dinner by a very fantastic man were president of a device if you want to cause. me and he invited me sort of a luncheon he was listening to me and i was interested he got a call in what i want to do in africa an hour into the africa i was there and as the end of the dinner he said you weren't interested was a fake i am going to give you only one advice only one never enter an african village if you are not accompanied by somebody who is known by the village. and they have apply. all my life is. a caution is the. beginning is never given by myself is given by somebody who has

a test of a person. and it works so i realize that there are no guarantees of any kind of anything when you get 2 people when you get people in the same room that have been killing each other for such a long time so it's a big deal that they sit down but what is the success rate usually those people who have been feuding for so long ok they're in the same room what is the success rate after they start talking have you i'm sure you've. already there in your personal theory i don't i don't count ok but let me tell you something. dialogue is a most essential thing because that means even accepted to meet. it has been a patient was a meeting is not is not. no idea what they're going to discuss your

bed so indeed a cli indeed a key is a dialogue has been established between them probably most probably most of the time for me so. they don't. have before they meet. evaluated appreciative. that it was going to be very detailed very sour and i was already but i never experienced. a moment where i put 2 parties together and no one is left never explained that they might not and. it did happen in the car one when after mrs. delegates. accepted to be on the plane that charter i've been that guy but when this all was going to be their homes i said no we cannot sit there with the same people in the left so. the.

ways that. i never experimented but do you know like gestures words that are it already like signal to you that there's going to be a deal here do you feel you have dance or are this like a center for ages and is when you're intervene. you know you're not. he manes as long as it is not. beginning or slight of conflict your positions then yes you have to intervene and calm down and tell people that geez what i mean this is what the. generals that they may be you you can match and. you feel it you. knew you feel at the time. you are you sure you should. and everything yes when you work on a complicated conflict like syria and if not then what would your advice people to

do that no i would never work on 2 conflicts because unfortunately syria is going to be young people of syria of syria. i still believe that in libya yes not yet it should live and where it goes beyond the people of. the people of syria people of syria who doesn't count i mean it's. so what will be my role to. have syrian government. in the u.s. government and. i don't have the keys and. i cannot and. i give up i don't i'm not following well good luck in the cases that you are involved and i'm sure they're going to be successful like most of the cases you have undertaken thank you much but this is thank you very much it's been a pleasure it was been a pleasure for me to. join

me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sport i'm showbusiness i'll see you then. give me my. cup with. just that. is enough. but i'm also the most companies you know. when i meet with.

this company siemens get almost communist came in. he goes from didn't you know this was going to say he's just put to use one whole different story. that was dumb and i'm going to hit the notion of missing live in the little you kind of this. little kid is. always stay in the middle but i don't look to your list to. go to you. because he. and his community there are people who believe that it's ok. it's really hard there are no jobs and you see that i've got kids that ask and as

a parent. i can come up with lots of arguments and there's a lot of conflict in the game between the teams most of the conflict i would say revolves around money their most of their money is made. close one on each of those he knows each other is good business the state of california alone makes $6000000000.00 a year off to prison complex just to get some 20 a life where. you don't care and. so you don't care about anything. just manufacture consent instinctive public will. when the ruling classes project themselves. in the final merry go round to be the one percent. that's not to ignore middle of the room

signals. i mean real news is. the world. hussein orders a symmetrical response to the latest u.s. missile test after washington pulled out of a key treaty. a new york times political editor is accused of anti-semitism over a series of tweets after a similar scandal involving the paper's washington editor. and conservative activists in the u.s. celebrate after a court agrees to reconsider a case accusing global tech giants like google and facebook of anti conservative bias. wolf moral these stories you can head to r.t. dot com and stay with us next for the big picture. on this week's show just when you thought you're protected yourself from identity theft the.