do you know what's interesting is that up until the 1970 s. the financial sector wasn't even included in g.d.p. it was actually seen as just a transfer of the existing value from one place to another kind of like you wouldn't include social security payments it's just a transfer and before that in fact the way we would talk about finance was also in terms of rent so the classical economist talked about in terms of unearned income it literally just moving stuff around which of course isn't true of all the finance but anyway there is this kind of skepticism of what is finance actually doing and so in the 1970 s. which is when the deregulation and some other changes the size of the financial sector started to become larger where you had was that the people who were doing the systems of the national accounts s.n.a. inside the united nations started to say i got this thing that's growing larger and larger in the economy isn't even being accounted for so instead of pausing and saying oh dear why is that what is this thing this blob actually doing they just came up with a justification for including it so investment banking was included under the term

risk taking that it was a service for risk taking remember that when you include things into the national accounts you have to kind of say what it is doing so in the u.s. as national income and product accounting so all of this is suddenly stuffed into the g.d.p. figures out without any kind of value judgement is it actually producing something or is it just moving things there when you maybe want your virgil to each other or up a little newspaper and it's talking about basically g.d.p. growth is all that we can hope for for you without booze using this sort of massive well let me give you a little test. what happens if someone is cleaning your house let's not make this under a civic and then you marry that man. what happens to g.d.p. before it falls and if you pollute. we all in the river so all the strain the only shows or things that only the only things that we pay for get included just explain the pollution yeah so when we pollute g.d.p.

nothing happens to it only once we pay someone to clean up the pollution does it change and in this case it would rise or the example of the cleaner was if someone is doing something in your house and then they keep doing it even if you're no longer paying them perhaps because you married them and they still do that the g.d.p. was is going down whereas other services in the house for example care 2 you know really important care services which we know are very valuable in the kind of a more colloquial sense simply because they're not being paid for don't going to g.d.p. this by the way something that feminists economists have been arguing for a very long time environmental economists have been arguing the point about pollution for a very long time what i kind of brought to the table was this whole issue about also the financial sector which is you know is that actually creating value how would we kind of make that valuation given that actually how we measure of value is simply through price it is for the really big as a feminist to go in as divorce is good as well yeah why not exactly but you know

this is the big revolution and in the history we cannot make thought is that the logic used to be from value to price nowadays we have a theory of price which then determines what we value so take teachers what's really interesting with public school teachers public schools the teachers that work inside them because the service gets provided for free to citizens we don't actually include the value of a well structured you know education system all we include are the the costs so the salaries of the teachers go into g.d.p. not the value of the product that they're producing if you divide it by the demand side as you can cut g.d.p. in different ways but on the demand side so all the consumption spending all the government spending the investment spending and that exports this country mainly grow. consumption led growth and that consumption is fueled by private debt and the ratio of private to disposable income is actually back at record levels to what it was just before the financial or that is you talk about apple the most valuable companies in the world so again by your meeting government. or government

investment in these sorts of figures we arrive at the idea of up will be a great. company with a lot of her nurse garage tinkerer is that souter you say it's the government that well what i need in the case of the apple story in this kind of builds on my previous book called entrepreneurial state is that the state in again how we talk about an economy is just seen as fixing a problem economists say fixing market failures and if you think of the more colloquial use of you know you're talking about the state it's there to enable to facilitate to deal risk to set some sort of basic framework conditions and then get the hell out of the way but actually what the state has done in places like silicon valley and the few places in the world that have actually grown through innovation because there's different ways to grow the state actually acted as an investor an investor a 1st resort but when we just think of the state of spender administrator or regulator we don't sort of capture this investment side and the true story behind apple is that everything that makes that phone smart to not stupid was funded by

the public sector so internet touchscreen display g.p.s. siri the voice activated system all those were funded not only by public money but by particular organizations that darpa in the department of defense that also has had to be structured in a particular way in order to you know use the smart innovation driven investments but it's because we don't think of the state as creating value but just facilitating it and fixing market failures we also don't ask ourselves for countries that want to emulate for example the silicon valley model what does this mean for how we structure our public organizations to take risks to experiment to explore to be more mission oriented other guys are available. where the operative by the way is in trouble with the u.s. government but where did it become all and when does it become all pervasive that innovation goes from the private sector not from go to directly the opposite of what you're saying than the name adam smith being used so often as part of this

idea that government is role that's just factually wrong by the way so even if you survey as completely mysterious because adam smith what he meant by the word free market was free from rent free from rent and rent seeking to really free the economy of rent you also need ambitious policies that do sell but i would say so i start the book with quoting plato not adam smith and i say that plato said storytellers rule the world and the stories about where wealth creation comes from so only in companies like apple or in the financial sector a better capitalism cetera is i think a story that also then justifies this very skewed way in which we're distributing the rewards which are actually fruit of a much more collective system and so what i would argue is that the kind of battle against the state that began with margaret thatcher and ronald reagan had to be accompanied by a whole narrative a discourse a story using plato's words that kind of portrayed the state as being you know

a bit boring and inertial but what most people don't realize and so it's not enough just to tell that kind of basic story is that the tech itself the really high risk technology was also funded by the state must use the new hero of space but also solar electric vehicles he received $5000000000.00 from the u.s. government forestry companies space x. tests and solar city these are investments in particular companies and it's really i think quite foolish to think that the taxpayer only socializes the risks and then we privatized the rewards as we did by the way with the bailouts of the banking system it was on the road that everybody has to bail out and their spirit he goes on but of course i mean just in the past few days the word marxist is come up repeatedly in parliament actually. were. of contempt and even b.b.c. journalism yet the would because again and again in this book what is it do you think the torah was so much of the most you have never read marx at best they've read the communist manifesto and how how how does most help the marxist fascinating

and if you mean the irony is if you read marx you end up really appreciating capitalism he describes it as a system driven by innovation constantly changing he has these wonderful metaphors for that change even in the communist manifesto but i'm really talking about capital is kind of magnum opus capital volume 12 and 3 which i read as carefully as i did adam smith's wealth wealth of nations david ricardo's principles of political economy the 3 were the classical economists compared to today's neo classical economist david ricardo already an $821.00 was asking the question that everyone thinks are so smart when they talk about it today the robots are taking our jobs he was already saying this mechanisation which is fueling growth under the industrial revolution has huge problematic features it's displacing labor it's causing unemployment and a pressure for wages to go down but then what you have for 200 years up until the 1980 s. basically is that the profits that were being generated from this new machinery and industrial revolution were being reinvested in other parts of the economy so even

though some jobs were being displaced there were then being found elsewhere literally creative destruction not just in technology but in jobs what then happened at the same time of the factor reagan years you had this obsession with maximizing shareholder value in terms of how companies were governed and that was you know became i think a fundamental problem sickness in modern day capitalism which we're really seeing still today which is the lack of reinvestment of profits back into the economy the profits are being hoarded on record levels but also being used simply to boost share prices and stock options and executive pay through practices like share buybacks so 3 trillion dollars have been spent to share buybacks in the last 10 years by the fortune 5. companies and when you talk to companies that engage with this practice and that would include you know pfizer cisco exxon apple they say well there's no opportunities for investment and then you look around and you see massive opportunities we have you know climate change which the i.p.c.c.

report tells us we have 12 years left 12 we have all sorts of challenges around health systems that really could be rebuilt and remember that if you do this ambitiously this also creates opportunities for profits themselves in modern economic thought that instead of looking at these objective conditions of production division of labor mechanization productivity they look at preferences so even wages are seen as the outcome of the preferences that workers have for leisure versus work and it's all focused on the individual the individual company maximizing profits the individual consumer maximizing utility the worker maximizing their choice of leisure versus work and that kind of takes the attention away from the structural conditions of the economy which are very problematic president as a cutter thank you after the break a new film about revolutionary cuban ballet dancer carlos acosta office not to go to mainstream portrayals of the socialist nation we speak to the film's director and its writer and your blake scribe paul levitz we. shot over.

the red. revolution from that all the people going about to go underground. cas calendar is drawing alfonzo a long day and there's changing page he's dard served. his 1st words were added i will see you're a challenging post you've got 2 years to live. i have no doubt that what happened was scriven.

that's causing trademark it is a $1000000000.00 industry these companies have a huge financial motivation to sow these products there are numerous stocks showing that doctors were keen to chest x. ray concentrates for infectivity on that patients what gives them doctors the wrong stoplight gault term system why they would keep me from sick each of those years day to day and people still die i don't always question or so i tried being hard to live when so many have. to quit frowning at him and i'm not. i'm a little but i think it's ended up by one thing when names we're buddies. did

both lot on. one of them one night he should have an extra. put them to i don't want that or i can't help. yes i. do know that i want to hear that they encourage. people to feel that he had a ticking down the lane he made the out of all the land here when i don't know before had a. welcome back united states economic war will undoubtedly continue on countries in latin america this week with further sanctions on venezuela and cuba being i'd buy the trumpet ministration is it any wonder when measures like these are parroted by major nation mainstream media with

a new film that follows the life of revolutionary cuban ballet dancer carlos acosta uses dance to dispel the mainstream media myths around cuba as well as highlight the effects of decades of u.s. economic war in the socialist nation we met up with the film's writer paul laverty who also wrote identical blake with ken loach and the film's director issue of bullying in central london i started by asking paul what made him choose the project i'm a very good friend called under calderwood is a scottish producer should read carlos's autobiography no way home because the cost of the valley done so yes sunday it's a terrific read he's known as i get it done so he's a great writer and it was hilarious the because just really sparky very very funny he grew up in a very pure and ivana his dad was an absolute brute but he's also loved in a sort of strange sort of way and we're going to watch the age of 9 himself he was a grandson to a slave so he's really tough on carlos and didn't want congress to going to trouble this is regularly about school so the exact opposite of billy elliot and there's

carlos carlos the one to them and he wanted to play for the office you know exactly so and that was the starting off point i suppose and then then we went met carlos yeah and then we're meant to abandon to see him rehashing there with his company the company that place that big rolling in the film and then i mean there were so many reasons to do the film and very few do not. in the film because he's such an amazing character is is a boy who starts from a beautiful neighborhood in atlanta in sap playing the 1st black romeo in that area so it's an incredible journey and then him and then we could tell these amazing story so we went for it because it's a warts and all picture of cuba as well which is in the news obviously draw trump saying we're going to destroy the country and its usually image allows a covert as a war kind of economy that will be brought in by germany gober conscious of how you're going to depict the kuber of color's acosta yeah well we just wanted to be

truthful because them and we listen to the propaganda from trump an hour from the british government we forget that there's an economic embargo against the stay nation is going to for 60 years which is totally against international law and is condemned every single year in the general assembly the united nations and they try to stereotype it but we actually go to cuba it's actually a very determined self-sufficient brilliant nation you know as it certainly felt the full with the united states is you know illegal and bargo but there's a great spot we're there's great vitality brilliant talent fantastic dancers some of the best ballet dancers best education systems in the world they don't talk without very much on them so commerce grow up and not just wanted to leave it to be truthful to that and we look at that economic period where it was a you know it was the special piece was a bit of a tough people trying to escape and rough so we don't try to. make it rosy who was just trying to be truthful because his life and kind of his life obviously you know

is wrapped around what's happened in cuba his last 45 years of his life just the smedley butler seem. to feel that was this was odd to put that here and there they did into it because it's so startlingly political in what is otherwise a story of aspiration you know something it was hard to defend because he had had quite a few critical. legal people are on it but the thing is as paul says you cannot understand cuba without the united states so because we are are not only telling cutlasses life cover story we are talking about cuba the united states has been blocking it in the island for the last 50 or the years. the united states have interfere in the politics of so many other countries as smoothly which was these in this general area pacifist after his life. in intervene in so many other countries he became a pacifist and he wrote this book which was call what he said wreck it and then to

enter the i mean that was an amazing idea to say ok let's dance. the united states in the race and all over the world all these deals politics and we just go on that's them but there was an amazing character really well known up until very recently he was the most awarded military figure and the entire history unbelievable a marine general smedley butler but people don't know his name and it's because after he retired he just said i have become a thug i have been i was washed an al capone i'll cop on only at 3 districts we invaded 3 continents and so this wonderful remarkable man his voice has been silenced and i'm so glad of that still an issue very conscious of the fact that your work obviously very was filmed you are always talking about huge geopolitical ideas and then focus from drumming so tell me is the. we're a lot about the script 1st i don't know how you. already will you us to work for us

undercover we'll ask him and then he asked me and then we both came in as a team what i think that was what was fascinating our callouses life story is it's about carlos it's about that cuban dance here in this is about how how he managed to break through and be a super successful one of the best in his generation but also he's cuban and also his life goes parallel to the last 40 years and that's something which where they're in the story i mean carlos his family which is very present in the film lived through the last 40 years of their life in the island and that was fascinating because you're telling the story of an amazing dance about the story of this country in the last but it doesn't force a bus there i mean carlos he's 2020 when he when he's hired by there by the english national ballet and then when he comes back to cuba he faces put on the sense that in the economy the soviet union has collapsed 8 cuba has disappeared and they face these special period which was which was the worst time ever in the island so him

so he faced that and he censored that he wanted back in cuba and everybody was leaving so we didn't force that into the story that that was actually what actually happened and it's the same thing with today carlos mature man who has decided to be part of the press and of his island by creating his company there and that's part of the film as well so he's known yuri oh no he was always connected to cuba he was holding back to cuba he was he never for his roots so all these things were what make this story short track of so relevant detail and so full of of well it's a great story and it wasn't forced to actually talk about all these things in cuba of course is what happened and what was very nice was actually like some of your question actually was bring in the film back to heaven or you know there was a 5400 people in the car my son. to see the opening of the film of the festival and there was thousands of say again that issue again and what was remarkable was just

defection there for carlos because he has not forgotten his resume to come oh well superstar in the world of dance because never forgot his roots and he wants to go back to cuba and he wants to contribute and build things there again and i think that's why he's held in such affection just on there's a scene where you really is in a place we're here actually looking at mainstream media coverage all over cuba why pick that particular clip of where he's looking at it we were just talking about all the people trying to flee well it was but again it goes back to his point when he went back in israel in his early twenty's there it coincided with the collapse of the soviet union there was still the embargo of united states there was great poverty in the country and people were trying to flee you know free and if in you know escape and rafts and we just fell with the boat was part of the reality and something that deeply touched them as a cuban see in the pain of these people always was a very important point to train bring in what about this blurring of fiction and reality when ken loach was

a large show you talked about your script for your break that script was mentioned allows a commons with politicians you're saying this is fiction it's not real what is this blurring of fiction in reality in the hugely well. very good question and because his father was actually born he was a grandson of a slave. that whole experience really marked him he went to work the age of 9 he was brutalized themself and beaten up by a very refined it annoys own father be given a very very rough background and there colors that have all these stories about slavery you know and cuba yeah magine them it was part of his reality too and i think as we have making sense of his father so it didn't go to the actual plantation they decided to dance it because he was absolutely convinced that those are the experiences that made his father such a tough contradictory character so. so although it's not literal i would argue it is very very truthful play going to make films together again because obviously i

understand you both met on carlos well the setting of a spanish civil war movie which obviously was not always going to take what. we've done 3 so far hopefully we'll do more years ago in the. film directed by the wonderful ken loach called landon freedom so he got me into a lot of trouble because he introduced me to theater software and you ever made the 3 films together may when the if she for patients continues she may do another one with us i don't know one bed on a hill i'd. never think of advance it never take every day i have very high demand saw i have to join a queue as you as you just said yeah i was land of freedom not close as a regular rug. i know the films already won awards or you've won or it's they going to take it to one guy don't run as wally or and both of them are all in brazil and all the countries in that numbers fear that may not be so rosy about the victories

of jager of our fidel castro i would love to bring it there and perhaps of they had a society where everybody who was over 70 is good talent you know have a chance to go to school and fulfill the talent i would love i would love to see that but when you see mr abbas now just now and in and one of the biggest countries in brazil celebrating an army which just convicted of so much torture and murder and i think it probably didn't get to see some beauty some dance some of my generation and the famous and the subtlety of the human spirit thing i would be brilliant and i would cause for venezuela as well and nicaragua with daniel ortega . thank you both if i. get good luck. good to see the would see.

you leave the call us acosta story is in u.k. cinemas this friday that's it for the show will be played out by singer songwriter nat he with his song revolution c. on wednesday to talk last civilizations and colonialist talking all the g. with bestselling author graham hancock has nothing with revolution. been thinking about what you said. i've been thinking about your plan. to get down by the lake side. so see you minds and. all those things you've set out. the night you want to take the stand.

we talk a lot about me. back in london. they saw couldn't saw so their faces go. they say your go in the town. but i don't see. not firing your eyes. when i say your bowing down. standing before me is the shadow of the. dream the revolution.

i dream the revolution. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation let it be an arms race is on off and spearing dramatic development only closely and going to exist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical of dying time to sit down and talk.

let me pick up in the give me my best lead up with this tool is human and we said. more just at home i would like a law school there's an awful lot in common i'm old but i'm also the most amazing knows i've been a kid who says it a bit deaf ways not emotional when i meet. his compass he most people in the school janish even though he goes from didn't he never speak to c.b.c. as per usual a few i called. him was dumb and i'm going to hit us if the notion of close was missed. look it is. always a. little bit of ok you win these 2. men

because he. is an officer. told them to get up off the ground after begin to pay him down to. hurt them freaks on the sounds of fighting a grown man like wrestling essentially. druids are drawn. to visual wish to away from the officer. of his group. the obvious or did they kind of lunge for the weapon once missed and then when it happened on tree swung as observations didn't hit him i never saw any contact me to do any kind of went back to where they were so the officers back here there try again 15 feet apart at this point and that's when the officer pulled out his gun and he did it on 3.

cameron is head by divisions rooted in its colonial past as a fierce pro of civil war in the african nation. california adopts america's strictest laws regulating the use of force by officers when making arrests of all the studies showing that police brutality is the fix most common cause of death among young men and the us. also this hour australian parents whose baby daughter was left malnourished by being in died of void jail time our guest break down the issues raised by the case i would. be the best to greece is going to be feeding the children.