i know you've been saying it for a while lots of people been saying for a while and you you just put your historian hat on there saying mentioning the british empire why has it taken so long for countries like russia china iran to start using currency swaps in rubles and romney meese. 1st of all there's no went for structure if you call up your bank and say i want to do something else the bank doesn't know what to do nearly and earlier everywhere in the world including america including in iran so it takes a while for people to start thinking about it it takes a while for people to actually learn how to do it and it takes a lot of people to do it a bench everybody does it is 2nd nature they know that it's better off or it's easy thing to do but right now i know most places in the world if you save foreign currency everybody says u.s. dollars that's the problem and that's why people are competitors are now trying to rise because they gave us dollar and u.s. government too much power i don't know where the run into christine legarde recently the famously convicted previously convicted of corruption in the french

quarter head of the i.m.f. but i mean when you meet people like that they don't seem nearly as concerned as you do they seem relatively sanguine about the world order of the world financial architecture bureaucrats the way you make it in that world is you you rouse up to academia or bureaucracy and you do what you're supposed to do you do what everybody else is does you accept the conventional wisdom and then all of a sudden you look around and the whole world is changed and you don't know what happened for goodness sakes if you're good and you heard lies from government bureaucrats and politicians and academics oh my goodness you're going to have real problems i'm not sure how many countries the united states currently sanctions but do you really think the united states might sanction turkey a nato ally turkey because it's now threatening turkey after it's obviously been threatening recently more on venezuela or on iran who knows who else it should look

around in the past 2 or 3 years especially the last 2 or 3 years america keeps doing contradictory things one that they say x. the next day they say why and i'm not sure anybody in washington has a central focus on what's going on mr trump. same to another i don't know who else does you see that recently in the middle east they started attacking capture or capture as one of our largest charity bases and it bit in white truck and the people in washington were bad mouthing catch all right left and center but finally somebody glimmers the trouble is that they wait a minute you know one of our largest military bases there let's calm this down do you think ironically as well the american people seem to understand some of the things you've been saying for so many years because the word socialism is now in parlance and people like sun does talk about mass infrastructure projects probably a bit like china who knows as the only way to stop the kind of financial meltdown you've been predicting since 2008 we're going to have

a no one even though the central bank in america says we want and what i said is that the next one is going to be the worst in my lifetime i don't know when it's going to be i guess you should watch our team to find out when but you know in 2008 we had a problem because that too much debt well since then the debt is skyrocketed everywhere even china has a lot of debt now so no we're certainly going to have another one and it's going to be the worst in my lifetime now i know you are out there for all the big investors but we have here british steel going a bust in this country and so many of the names famous for the privatizations ever since the 980 s. in this country mrs thatcher what would you suggest a government like britain's to do to begin that she lies in now ahead of any big meltdown like the one you're talking about. no national station it's never been good for anybody do you think the post office is a paragon of a fictious it you think you can you probably think that we have privatized the post

office here i have to tell you it's just the united states you go national when we had one 0 that's right they didn't profit does the post office there so over the internet i don't know the middle is a go but every room is the british post office nearly privatized is also in front of trouble that maybe somebody should take it maybe they should take over the american post office and try to fix ours i was certainly not very efficient. nationalization in my view you know we tried socialism we tried comminges and we tried it many many places many many times it has not worked maybe it will work the next time we try it but human nature is such that it's not going to work while we are responding to this latest us google attack by saying they're going to start vertical integration in their own operating system some people saying soon relatively soon china will be able to supply its own market let alone the international markets do you see policymakers understanding what's going on in that

part of the will that you invest so much in i will certainly say that sanctions have never worked they've always hurt people in the end for instance right now every morning russian farmers wake up and say thank you mr trump he put sanctions on russian farmers russian agriculture is booming booming because of the sanctions what i thought she is going to happen is the chinese are going to become self-sufficient in many things which means that many american companies are going to lose their markets you say that the chinese will not be able to produce everything well but i'm skeptical of that statement because they're 1300000000 chinese they produce 10 times as many engineers every year is american does some of the bad engineers some of got to be good so i'm i don't think this is going to rebound and. or america rather than help us just finally thanks for the adversity but of course a lot of you as of a t.n. around the world tend to blame george soros and i know you work closely with him

what do you think about these attacks on single individuals instead of into structures when it comes to neo liberalism in the fight back against their liberalism 1st action which killed 48 was 40 years ago you might as well ask me about my 1st wife. you just saw it was doing nor do i care but certainly most arguments amount hanumant never been good you know if you cannot come up with a logical rational argument on your own you start attacking people that's never been a good sign in fact when i was a kid in university where used to say if you start resorting to argumentum ad hominem that means you've lost you've lost the argument jim rogers thank you well as u.k. media picks apart the results of the e.u. elections one thing is almost certain that the left wing case for brix it will not receive airtime on the likes of the british state mandated b.b.c. or channel 4 something that angers the advocates to poet actor and writer benjamin

zephaniah whose band the revolutionary minds is currently on to a bringing views ignored by the mainstream to people across the u.k. we met him at the premises studios in east london benjamin thanks for being on going underground again while we had the premises studio in east london and what is the revolutionary mind of the tour the album the track wow. truck on the album i go through the bow tie. the revolution that i think we need now is not necessarily one where people take to the streets and all that stuff or those sometimes i think we need a bit of that but more about trying to get people to think differently and i'm just convinced that the old way of doing stuff is just redundant and i know you hear that from labor party people in here have changed you yeah yeah no i mean you know it's a city before you now feel like an anarchist and that's the only way i can describe myself now because i look at so many overweight people have tried nothing they're all letting us down in one way or another and we gotta find a new way i don't know what the name of it is i'm not telling people have devolved

i'm just trying to say fink outside the box you know what i show you had low key as he drill minister marty for an x. he mainstreams just like storms here and is music to or i mean i turn on the b.b.c. and channel 4 in britain and they often have a debate about whether it's music that's part of the problem as regards. you will economic violence austerity says the 2 anyway crash music as far as i've seen has not made people on imply music has not put people into bad housing. music has not left kids on the street hungry music has not cause homelessness music is trying to reflect the things the leaves are jailing or a suspended sentence or certainly for musicians drill music in south london and started to allow international that's being blamed for the rise in syria's use drought i know. artists that do real music and what used to be cold rolled music

grime music and. a lot of them a very creative people but they live in a very hostile environment and they're just reflecting the reality look when i started creating music it was reggae music and we were talking about plus unemployment you talk about bubbling under system it was doing that what it was doing to us that was our reality there's a wonderful. sorry for quoting it may seem stereotypical for a guy with dreadlocks to be quoting him of a guy who dreadlocks but it was an interview when somebody was interviewing bob marley and for the no one is your work so political and he just didn't understand the question i agree that it was just the thing was just an honest cause he just for i'm just writing about my reality on this writing about the way we live on one thing about the way we suffer i'm writing about the way we are policed you know i'm writing about the way colonialism is affecting me. it doesn't sit down to go when i'm going to write political music and i don't think you know grill artists are going to write really drill music to upset people and cause violence this is the

reality more from the germans up in iran windrush wiki leaks on the left wing case fabric sets after the break as well as a performance from the band the revolutionary minds. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation let it be an arms race. spilling dramatic developing only and dangerous east i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical

time to sit down and talk. toyota to get up off the ground yasser begins again. on the sounds of. the grenade big mistake especially if you're. his return. was to go away from the officer. to his group. they obviously did a kind of lunge for the web in one smith's and then when i haven't done chase one and i didn't hit him i never saw any contact with. any kind of went back to where they were so the officers back here they're trying again 15 feet apart at this point and that's when the officer pulled out his gun in a minute john kerry. in a world of big partisan mafias and conspiracy it's time to wake up to

be deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door. and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now we're watching closely watching the hawks. at the ball of the trap that will last forever. so you. see death look what you. want your share.

of the source of your might your bonus for. the missed the word supporter. are you able to teach a student actually a person. to speak. you're watching going underground in part 2 of our interview with anna kissed poet benjamin zephaniah at the premises studios in east london jimmy cliff was on this show around the time the wholesale environment story started to emerge and obviously he was suitably angry but since it's raised in may and the disgraced home secretary i think she might be burning now for leader this is she went we've been having africa caribbean families on the show talking about people who are in their

eighty's who never travelled abroad or who are people with threat of deportation even going to funerals there's not deaths in jamaica after deportation i mean surprised us here going i'm going to you you've been talking about issues to do with immigration and racism for a long time did it surprise you in 1993 i pull mine to 93 story garden it was killed she was killed by an organization called extradition squad. that was a squad that used to go around and deport people she was in the house with her son and they came and i'm going to quote my own poetry they put a lever belt around her 13 feet of tape and bound handcuffs it to cure her and only garden of ourselves she's illegal so the porter said the empire that brought her she died nobody killed she never killed herself it is our job to make return to jamaica said the alien the porters of the poor people like me the poems much

longer than that i wrote that in 1993 you know this is being going on for years i used to travel to jamaica and i remember once around the same time probably a bit early and eighties getting on a plane and behind me there was a woman in handcuffs and when she saw me to recognize me she screamed benjamin benjamin help me please help me and i said what's the problem today deporting me deported me i came to england when i was 6 months old they send him back to jamaica i don't know jamaica brother help me help me and i got up to sit and talk with the police as that back off. and all food affrighted jamaica i could hear a cry and i just wouldn't let me go near so we've known about this for years this is the 21st century and the these plates are going on i don't know why you're so surprised no it doesn't surprise me.

it's very sad that it doesn't surprise me but it doesn't surprise me not much has changed and certainly when it comes to crime of. immigration there was no time in the home office is when the home office said a stop we're going to have a look at this. and and do something about it they've just been tweaking it and then the strange thing is that we can it in the wrong direction not creating an environment for these people to feel at home they're creating a hostile environment that's not a word a living of made up for in by the words of tourism a yes we've just recently we've had 5 people killed in jamaica and i heard from another one does a couple days ago after deportation yes after reported him and one guy that has come back he came here while he was young but i mean had a driving offense and they sent him back and he said all these neighbors think he's a rapist in a murder because some m.p.

said we're only deported rapist or murder of and he and he's been deported on a driving offense i don't know about you but i have a driver defense you know we get parking tickets all the time speeding tickets or department i don't look so innocent i don't tell a driver. there's just been very big campaign about to change course islands maybe many people in britain don't know much about it. while either involved and what did you make of this court ruling that the british government seems to be ignoring that britain has to release its imperial control of these islands in the pacific well 1st of all what you said is right every time i write or talk about these islands i get feedback from people saying never heard of it could destroy really have happened. that's why i talk about it it's so outrageous what happened does ireland and when it comes to depreciate government or in. the

court's rulings well that shows you've got. when people talk about the rule of law that's fine until it's an inconvenience for them and then they just ignore it especially when it comes to the child as ireland because it's not really in the headlines i mean i think at the moment a lot of important things in british and international politics but i'm speaking from a british perspective are not in the headlines because we're so overwhelmed with bricks of. and the government are going away with a lot of things because of that i mean if you go on question time i've been on a few times. and i. brought that up they would tell me that it's not current news you know. it's not in the papers now so it will be shut down. so who decides what is current and was not kind of easy via the know this jill should be an issue very much in the news as brick shadow is the main issue in this schedule and instead i mean you have been on the

mainstream jails liberals is there that one of the people that helped you through this was tony benn the late tony be don't tell me a bit about that about what gerry penn told you about break well tony benn was always anti you and. he i always say he's the nearest thing i had to a political mentor because i could sit down with him for hours and he would talk to me about things i was trying to work out and he was always very open he was always a disses the way i see it you may see it in the hallway and i remember him telling me about the and he always felt that it was distant undemocratic but awful. and this is something i feel a revolutionary. if i want to go and get my politicians i can get them not very far from here but the ones in europe a very far away and discovered you know some of them in a bus or some of them in frankfurt the monument in paris in a. soul deep down in my instinct was to kind of follow tony benn's

example and to want to leave before if you like left wing reasons. the sad thing was that just wasn't part of the debate and then when i saw the people i was getting in bed with and the reasons why vi were leaving they just didn't correspond with the reasons why i want to leave so you know i made it clear i voted to remain i mean the birth of a royal baby oh now you're not going to tell me that media seriously called you up to comment on the birth of oil baby in terms of its identity politics race imperialism in a context just some wind when the baby was there no a day old and i well this is a very important moment in our history. no providing look i'm just not interested in revolutionary minds don't give a damn when a baby in the palace is born i'm really not interested about what you think is going through the minds of the kinds of journalists that immediately think it could

be a black baby i'll call benjamins if i don't answer very difficult to get into the mind of somebody think that there's some some journalist some media people who think about you know. benjamin's i phone i. can be andrew card. for her. freeze are disposed people for the black community i mean they were trying to be we just we have our point of view we create art and i poetry or whatever and we have a point of view but we never claim to speak for the black community and we none of us are experts on black people but they seem to think we are you know i mean i've had worse things than that i had an interview give a day where a lady kind of reached out to me different from benjamin tell me what is it like to be black i should remember that this is a critical loving how do you again just i just the other of never being what i

think judy is belmarsh prison the circle going time of prisons in this country what do you make of wiki leaks and. and the situation where you are in journalism which you know i really don't know much about him. but as soon as i started to hear about his work suddenly claim to forward that it would end this way . the idea of somebody who says there's all this stuff that hidden from you and i'm going to show you it i'm going to give it to you left right and center. is a kind of person i've always wanted to see you know what i've always i've always felt that there's so much that we just don't know about it and here's somebody to kind of put me in the public domain one thing that really upsets me is that we don't hear about all this stuff that they're putting out i sort of film of american

soldiers shooting innocent people in the street you know this is big news these are the kinds of things that the people of my country the people who worship know about these are the kind of thing that these people get up to there's a line of poetry unmonitored one of my tracks on the album is called in this world and the line that you could apply to. we live in a world where people who expose corruption in illegal activities and governments become the ones who are persecuted and hunted down we live in a world where both are exposed violations of the law of themselves violated by the law and i really think that's what's happening to him tell me about cool down because people are told whether privatization of stress being mental illness obviously there's a scary obviously there's a kind of revolutionary fervor on demonstrations uprisings what is called down about it's about young people and i got to say it was originally written about 10

years ago it's about young people on the streets who were kind of killing themselves at my house and guns fighting because. this kind of post cold war it is a side case of a day where a kid is just sitting at his deposition our guy comes up to me says what ends are you from he didn't even answer him suspecting that he came from another place and shot him. i do think sometimes it is overblown in the media but i do know parent to have lost their children that way so for them it's a very serious thing i'd be if you notice a couple of weeks ago a very similar story. so it was a message to them i've always said that. in the kind of society we live in it's natural to be angry you know it's what you do. and when you just start killing your neighbors and your brothers and sisters you're directing it in the wrong why front fernand wrote about ruth kind of sometimes when people contact type of people

to read the press and then they start to think i've got themselves and i think that's what's happening benjamin's and i thank you and now benjamin zephaniah and the revolutionary minds with called out. thank you. thank. you thank. you michael crowley. thank you thank you me. the crew coco. good luck. mediocre.

creature thank you. thank you. thank you thank you. thank. you i should be. looking for a way out to try to get. maybe folks. movie finds ways to get radio. because.

most. leave most. moved to.

a. nation going into that. room to get skilled and educated as. a female to move a little bit. from both of. us. we are in a depression in america populations all over america there's poverty and more than half the population lives at or below the poverty line so they're already has a bit of a ghost depression going on which has developed into a full blown depression because of neither policies work from the central bank so

maybe the problem is the subtle. paradise with all year round turned into a round the experimentation field the agricultural chemicals we know that these chemicals have consequences they are major irritants there's no question otherwise why would that the chemical company workers themselves be geared up that suited up locals attempt to combat the on regulated experiments but often in day you have many of these people who have one foot into the biotech pharma and the other foot in the government regulatory bodies this kind of collusion is reprehensible while the battle goes on the chemicals continue to poison hawaii and its people so one has to ask the question whether there is

a form of environmental research going on in hawaii whether these companies feel they can get away with this because the people have less political power. a bold bold risky move from the british prime minister as boris johnson us the queen to shut up parliament until mid october and then attempt to lock in the u.k. as a did from the european union. also coming up on the program a russian journalist karylle deficiency is released from free trial the tension he spent a year in a good creamy and jail meeting face charges of treason. in a 1st of its kind really a u.s. federal court ordered.