it violates principles of fairness and integrity it violates our rules based world order that's existed since the end of world war 2 put plainly china's scenes determined to steal its way up the economic ladder at our expense we've been unable to secure an interview with the chinese ambassador to london about allegations like these that china is a rogue state bent on theft suffice it to say that the us is clearly violated the post 945 rules based order from career in vietnam to palestine nicaragua or in cuba here though is what china is saying about us policy if the us and china will have to respond to me highness never afraid of any pressure on china certainly has been pressured he has a us cable news presenter telling the world not even to be surprised by revelations from former cia contractor edward snowden now in moscow for safety it's not a huge surprise that the u.s. military is engaged in off fans of cyber attacks yes but the usa is not just

offensively hacking countries it is involved in full spectrum surveillance as revealed by edward snowden arguably making accusations against chinese companies like while way even more risible joining me now via skype from the british colony of them you there is guinness world record holder jim rogers he founded the quantum fund with george soros and is the author of a bull in china investing profitably in the world's greatest market jim welcome to going underground so you've said trump is making china great again do you think something chinese communist party officials a law fing at the latest sanctions against weiwei well trump called out of the trans-pacific partnership and the chinese looked around and said well that means we're the only ones left so they can take over asia now. maybe that's what mr trump is thinking make america great but it's doing a lot to make china great because now they don't have any major rivals in asia and the pacific rim ensure if you have a you've been talking for years about the end of the dollar or perhaps the end of the dollar as

a reserve currency do you think china will be seeing this and the developments of the bank as they try and promote that as as presaging. the end of the dollar well as you well know several people were several countries in the world looking for replace mark beast a competitive with the u.s. dollar it is starting to happen there are the banks that the chinese and others have developed to compete with the u.s. dollar and it's happening i mean when the pound sterling lost its status it didn't happen in a year didn't happen in a decade but it happened and the same thing is starting to happen with the us stock i know you've been saying it for a while lots of people been saying for a while and you you just put your historian hats on there saying mentioning the british empire why has it taken so long for countries like russia china iran to start using currency swaps in rubles and romney miss. 1st of all there's no went for structure if you call up your bank and say i want to do something else the bank doesn't know what to do nearly and earlier everywhere in the world including

america including in iran so it takes a while for people to start thinking about it it takes a while for people to actually learn how to do it and it takes a while for people to do it a bench everybody does it is 2nd nature they know that it's better offered easy thing to do but right now i know most places in the world if you save foreign currency everybody says u.s. dollars that's the problem and that's why people are competitors are now trying to rise because they gave us dollar and u.s. government too much power i don't know where the run into christine legarde recently the famously convicted previously convicted of corruption in the french quarter head of the i.m.f. but i mean when you meet people like that they don't seem nearly as concerned as you do they seem relatively sanguine about the world order of the world financial architecture bureaucrats the way you make it in that world is you you rouse up through academia or bureaucracy and you do what you're supposed to do you do what

everybody else is does you accept the conventional wisdom and then all of a sudden you look around and the whole world is changed and you don't know what happened for goodness sakes if you're good and you heard lies from government bureaucrats and politicians and academics oh my goodness you're going to have real problems i'm not sure how many countries the united states currently sanctions but do you really think the united states might sanction turkey a nato ally turkey because it's now threatening turkey after it's obviously been threatening recently more on venezuela or on iran and who knows who else it should look around in the past 2 or 3 years especially the last 2 or 3 years america keeps doing contradictory things one that they say x. the next day they say why and i'm not sure anybody in washington has a central focus on what's going on mr trump. same to another i don't know who else does you see that recently in the middle east they started attacking capture or

capture as one of our largest charity bases and it bit in white truck and the people in washington were bad mouthing catch all right left and center but finally somebody glimmers the trouble is that they wait a minute to know one of our largest military bases there let's calm this down do you think ironically as well the american people seem to understand some of the things you've been saying for so many years because the word socialism is now in parlance and people like sun does talk about mass infrastructure projects probably a bit like china who knows as the only way to stop the kind of financial meltdown you've been predicting since 2008 we're going to happen when even though the central bank in america says we want and what i said is that the next one is going to be the worst in my lifetime i don't know when it's going to be i guess you should watch our team to find out when you know in 2008 we had a problem because that too much debt well since then the debt is skyrocketed everywhere even china has a lot of debt now so no we're certainly going to have another one and it's going to

be the worst in my lifetime now i know you are out there for all the big investors but we have here british steel going a bust in this country and so many of the names famous for the privatizations ever since the 980 s. in this country mrs thatcher what would you suggest a government like britain's to do to begin that she lies in now ahead of any big meltdown like the one you're talking about. no nationalization it's never been good for anybody do you think the post office is a paragon of a fictious it you think you can you probably think that we have privatized the post office here i have to tell you it's just the united states you go national when we had one 0 that's right they didn't profit does the post office they're so over the internet i don't know the middle is a go but every room is the british post office nearly privatized is also in front of trouble that maybe somebody should take it maybe they should take over the american post office and try to fix ours i was certainly not very efficient.

nationalization in my view you know we tried socialism we tried comminges and we tried it many many places many many times it has not worked maybe it will work the next time we try it but human nature is such that it's not going to work while we are responding to this latest u.s. google attack by saying they're going to start vertical integration in their own operating system some people saying soon relatively soon china will be able to supply its own market let alone the international markets do you do you see policymakers understanding what's going on in that part of the will that you invest so much in well i will certainly say that sanctions have never worked they've always hurt people in the end for instance right now every morning russian farmers wake up and say thank you mr trump he put sanctions on russian farmers russian agriculture is booming booming because of the sanctions what i thought she was going to happen is the chinese are going to become self-sufficient in many things

which means that many american companies are going to lose their markets you say that the chinese will not be able to produce everything well but i'm skeptical of that statement because they're 1300000000 chinese they produce 10 times as many engineers every year is american some of the bad engineers some of got to be good so i don't i don't think this is going to rebound in. or america rather than helpless just finally thanks for the advert for r.t. but of course a lot of you as of r t n around the world tend to blame george soros and i know you work closely with him what do you think about these attacks on single individuals instead of into structures when it comes to neo liberalism in the fight back against their liberalism 1st action which killed 48 was 40 years ago you might as well ask me about my 1st wife. you just saw it was doing nor do i care but certainly most arguments amount hanumant never been good you know if you cannot come up with

a logical rational argument on your own you start attacking people that's never been a good sign in fact when i was a kid in university where used to say if you start resorting to argumentum ad hominem that means you've lost you've lost the argument jim rogers thank you well as u.k. media picks apart the results of the e.u. elections one thing is almost certain that the left wing case for brix it will not receive airtime on the likes of the british state mandated b.b.c. or channel 4 something that angers the advocates to poet actor and writer benjamin zephaniah whose band the revolutionary minds is currently on to a bringing views ignored by the mainstream to people across the u.k. we met him at the premises studios in east london benjamin thanks for being on going underground again while we had the premises studio in east london and what is the revolutionary mind of the tour the album the track wow. truck on the album

i go through the bow tie. the revolution that i think we need now is not necessarily one where people take to the streets and all that stuff or those sometimes i think we need a bit of that but more about trying to get people to think differently and i'm just convinced that the old way of doing stuff is just redundant and i know you hear that from labor party people and hearing of change you yeah yeah not only that but you know it's a city before you now feel like an anarchist and that's the only way i can describe myself now because i look at so many other ways people have tried nothing they're all letting us down in one way or another i mean gotta find a new way i don't know what the name of it is i'm not telling people have devolved i'm just trying to say think outside the box you know what i show you head low key as he drill minister marty for legs he will mainstream stars like storms here and is music to or i mean i turn on the b.b.c. and channel 4 in britain and they often have a debate about whether it's music that's part of the problem as regards. will

economic violence austerity says the 2 anyway crash music as far as i've seen has not made people on imply music has not put people into bad housing. music has not left kids on the street hungry music is not cause homelessness music is trying to reflect things that elisa jailing or suspended sentence of certainly for musicians drill music in south london and started to allow international that's being blamed for the rise in syria's use drams i know. artists that do real music and what used to be cold rolled music grime music and. a lot of them a very creative people but they live in a very hostile environment and they just reflect and we got to take a look when i started creating music it was a reggae music and we would talk about unemployment we'd talk about bobby and on the system it was doing that's what it was doing to us that was our reality there's

a wonderful story for quoting it may seem stereotypical for a guy with dreadlocks to be quoted and of a guy who dreadlocks but it was an interview when somebody was interviewing bob marley and said you know why is your work so political and he just didn't understand the question i agree that it was just the thing was he just didn't understand because he just for i'm just writing about my reality on this writing about the way we live on one thing about the way we suffer i'm writing about the way we are policed you know i'm writing about the way colonialism is affecting me. it doesn't sit down to go when i'm going to write political music and i don't think you know real artists to kind of are going to write really drill music to upset people and cause violence this is their reality more from benjamin's up in iran when drudge wiki leaks in the left wing case fabrics that after the break as well as a performance from the band the revolutionary mind. survival

guide to the start to. get. back to. replace relations with the rest 70 years. ago with the bad guys record. here's. the deal.

you're watching going underground in part 2 of our interview with anarchist poet benjamin zephaniah at the premises studios in east london jimmy cliff was on this show around the time the wholesale environment story started to emerge and obviously he was suitably angry but since theresa may and the disgraced home secretary i think she might be burning now for leader this is she went we've been having africa caribbean families on the show so he we had people who were in their eighty's would never traveled abroad who were people with threat of deportation even going to funerals there are deaths in jamaica after deportation i mean surprised us here going underground you you've been talking about issues to do with immigration and racism for longer does it surprise you in 1993 i pro 9093 troy gardener was killed she was killed by an organization called extradition squad that was

a squad that used to go around and deport people she was in the house with her son and they came i'm going to quote my own poetry they put a live a belt around her 1st 100 feet of type i'm bound hunk officer to cure her and only god knows what else sees illegal so deporter said the empire that brought her she died nobody killed and she never killed herself. it is our job to make return to jamaica said the alien the porters of the poor people like me the poems much longer than that i wrote that in 1993 you know this is being going on for years i used to travel to jamaica and i remember once around the same time probably a bit early and eighties getting on a plane and behind me there was a woman in handcuffs and when she saw me to recognize me she screamed benjamin benjamin help me please help me and i said what's the problem today deporting me deported me i came to england when i was 6 months old they send him back to jamaica

i don't know how to make a brother help me help me and i got up to sit and talk with the police as that back off. and all food affrighted jamaica i could hear a cry and i just wouldn't let me go near her so we've known about this for years this is the 21st century and the these rates are going on i don't know why you're so surprised no it doesn't surprise me. it's very sad that it doesn't surprise me but it doesn't surprise me not much has changed and certainly when it comes to crime of. immigration there was no time in the home of business when the home office said a stop we're going to have a look at this. and and do something about it i've just been tweaking it and the strange thing is that we can it in the wrong direction not creating an environment

for these people to feel at home they're creating a hostile environment that's not a word that living of made up for in but i words of derision may yes we've just recently we've had 5 people killed in jamaica and i heard from another one there's a couple of days ago after deportation yes after deportation the one guy that has come back he came here while he was young but i mean had a driving offense and they sent him back and he said all these neighbors think is a rapist in a murder because some m.p. said we're only deported rapist or murderer of and he can and he's been deported on a driving offense i don't know about you but i have a driver defense you know we get parking tickets all the time speeding tickets or department i don't look so innocent i don't have a driver. there's just been very big campaign about to change course ireland's maybe maybe even been don't know much about it. while either involved and what did you make of this court ruling that the british government has to be ignoring that britain has to release its imperial control of these islands in the

pacific well 1st of all what you said is right every time i write or talk about these islands i get feedback from people saying never heard of it could destroy really have happened. that's why i talk about it it's so outrageous what happened does ireland and when it comes food a british government in. the court's rulings well that shows you've got. when people talk about the rule of law but fine until it's an inconvenience for them and then they just ignore it especially when it comes to child island because it's not really in the headlines i mean i think at the moment a lot of important things in pretty soon international politics but i'm speaking from a british perspective and not in the headlines because we're so overwhelmed. and the government are going away with a lot of things because of that i mean if you go on question time as i've been on

a few times. and i. brought that up they were telling me that it's not current news you know if it's not in the papers now so it would be shut down. so who decides what is current and was not current rosie feel that the notice still should be here issue very much in the news or bricks it though is the main issue in this country land is there i mean you've been on the mainstream journals really bad is there that that one of the people that helped you through this was joni ben the late johnny byrne tell me a bit about that about what really peddled you a break well tony benn was always and you and. and he i always say that he's the nearest thing i had to a political mentor because i could sit down with him for i was and he would talk to me about things i was trying to work out and he was always very open with me always say this is the way i see it you may see it another way and i remember him telling

me about the and he always felt that it was distant undemocratic but also. this is something i feel a revolutionary. if i want to go and get my politicians are not very far from here but the ones in europe are very far away and the scattered you know some of them in brussels some of them in frankfurt the minimum in paris. so deep down my instinct was to kind of follow tony benn's example and to want to leave for if you like left wing reasons. the sad thing was that just wasn't part of the debate when when i saw the people i was getting in bed with and the reasons why vi were leaving they just didn't correspond with the reasons why i want to leave so you know i made it clear i voted to remain i mean the birth of a royal baby oh now you're not going to tell me that media seriously called you up

to comment on the birth of oil baby injuns which identity politics race imperialism context just some went when the baby was that it would dale today well this is a very important moment in our history. no i look i'm just not interested in revolutionary minds don't give a damn when a baby in the palace is born i'm really not interested about what you think is going through the minds of the kinds of journalists that immediately think it could be a black baby i'll call benjamins if i don't answer very difficult to get into the mind of somebody think that there's some some journalist some media people who think that you know. benjamin's i phone i. can be andrew card. for these are the spokes people for the black community i never claim to be we just we have our point of view and we create art and i post

here whatever and we have a point of view but we never claim to speak for the black community and we none of us are experts on black people but they seem to think we are you know i mean i've had worse things than that i had an interview give a day where a lady kind of reached out to me different from benjamin tell me what is it like to be black i should remember that this is a critical loving how do you are gay just like us that either of never being what i think judy is belmarsh prison the circle going time of prisons in this country what do you make of wiki leaks and. and situation where you are ingenious which you know i really don't know much about him but as soon as i started to hear about his work suddenly claim to forward that it would end this way the idea of somebody who says there's all this stuff that hidden from you and i'm

going to show you it i'm going to give it to you left right and center. is a kind of person i've always wanted to see you know what i've always i've always felt that there's so much that we just don't know about and here's somebody to kind of put me in the public domain one thing that really upsets me is that. we don't hear about all this stuff that they're putting out i sort of film of american soldiers shooting innocent people in the street you know this is big news these are the kinds of things that the people of my country to people who world should know about these are the kind of thing that these people get up to there's a line of poetry unmonitored one of my tracks on the album is called in this world and the line that you could apply to. we live in a world where people who expose corruption in illegal activities and governments become the ones who are persecuted and hunted down we live in

a world where both are exposed violations of the law of themselves violated by the law and i really think that's what's happening to him tell me about cool down because people are told whether privatization of stress being mental illness obviously there's a scary obviously there's a kind of revolutionary fervor on demonstrations uprisings what is wrong cool down about it's about young people and i got to say it was originally written about 10 years ago it's about young people on the streets who were kind of killing themselves at my use and guns. fighting because. this kind of post cold war do the side case of a day where a kid is just sitting that sized up a station or guy comes up to me says what ends are you from he didn't even answer him suspecting that he came from another place is shot him. i do think sometimes it is overblown in the media but i do know parent to have lost their children that way

so for them it's a very serious thing i had to be a few notice a couple of weeks ago a very similar story. so it was a message to them i've always said that. in the kind of society we live in it's natural to be angry you know it's what you do. and when you just start killing your neighbors and your brothers and sisters you're directing it in the wrong why run from under oath about ruth kind of sometimes when people contact type that the people that i read oppressing them they start to think of them selves and i think that's what's happening benjamin's and i thank you and now benjamin zephaniah and the revolutionary minds with called out.

thank you. thank. you thank. you michael crowley. thank you thank you me. the crew coco. good luck. to you folks. to egypt thank you. thank you. thank you thank you. thank.

you you should just. keep it away i'll try to try to get. maybe folks a full. blown. movie brains wasting radio. talk to a. just me but just no.

place. to. go electric going to. the lead i. play the lead. thanks to. the tell me.

i'm. full. body. he. should have been there so. i don't want that i want to keep it from me as i knew she needed to move to the united yeah i am kind of whom he could feel that he had to keep. going i need to move a little bit more that you know enough to before. we are in a depression and america populations all over america there's poverty and more than half the population lives below the poverty line so there already is a bit of a ghost depression going on which has developed into

a full blown depression because i'm not either of policies work from the central bank so maybe the problem is the son told. the british prime minister secures the queen's approval to suspend parliament until made toba what's being seen as a risky move to block and peace chances they look forward to going no deal breaks it. russian journalists career over since he is released from pretrial detention he spent a year in the ukrainian jail waiting to face charges of treason. and in a 1st of its kind ruling a u.s. federal court orders the state of idaho to pay full gender reassignment surgery for an inmate can.