cross talking russia and china i'm joined by my guest joel and paris he is the president of the bridge tank in washington we have earl he is the executive vice president of the eurasia center and in singapore we cross to jim rogers he's an international investor and the fact that means he can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate jim let me go to you in singapore as i said in my introduction this is no longer a marriage of convenience if it ever was the reason why we're doing this program as i remember is reflecting upon a bed in the new york times and they were basically reacting as like wow the everybody notice this happening which all of us have and remarkably said it trump was right to improve relations with russia as actually to do and reverse nixon when it came to china what are these people talking about where have they been it seems like they've just crawled out under from a rock go ahead jim in singapore. but i would tell you peter if you go to moscow

airport now it's full of chinese 5 years ago there were nobody there if you go to red square they're all speaking chinese mr trump and they're americans are pushing the chinese and the russians closer and closer together breaks my heart i'm going to merican but this isn't saying it's insane if you can get out a map or study demography or geography you will know you don't want to be against those 2 countries combined ok well very good point joe let me go to you in paris i mean this is being going on slowly but surely in for a variety of reasons here of course russia is against nato expansion it seems it is a existential threat to its security which it is in any military alliance moving towards your borders is by definition and the chinese well we see that the united states again raising the issue of tariffs and possible sanctions chinese interaction with a country like iran i mean china and russia are natural allies in light in reacting

to the policies coming out of washington and it doesn't really matter who's in the white house by the way go ahead and paris yeah you know i think of being friends you know you have the same enemies who share the same and he's but i'm not sure it's what models the most you know of course the fuel the frenchie but i think that the 2nd way we choose to have come on issues is more important i would suggest the centrally. growing lead to middle east ease shared issues between the nation's economy can be. in terms of security so i think it's a friendship which is going to last there are all of the same question to you this is much more than a marriage convenience because that's what you constantly hear that is to refrain when it comes to western observers watching russia and china i mean i think it's gone way beyond that i mean it's gone way beyond dating there in a relationship they will probably never get married. ok because neither country

under its own laws can be a part of a strategic alliance with another country but they certainly do parlay very well go ahead earl. yes peter i mean it's been happening for a while and i and just to be surprised recently it's kind of. you know where have you been but absolutely it's more than just a marriage of convenience going much deeper also which couples that the makes it even stronger is the personal relationship between president. president putin which basically they're they call each other their best friends and that spills over into government and we've got natural which we've kind of talked about a little bit the central asia i think peace is very critical expression of support the road initiative and we've got. russia's got abundant the resources china needs resources but it's much more than just economic and we've got 2600 mile border

the relationship to go on much dieter geo political interests personal interests economic and now potential military security interests as well you know one of the things that's very interesting is that. detractors of the russia china relationship always say that russia is choosing poorly it should choose the west over china but i always counter is that under that scenario russia must surrender a great deal of its sovereignty and that it is unwilling to do that its relationship with china both countries preserve their their sovereignty and their very adamant about it i mean if you look at their relationship when one is not subservient to the other they have mutual strong interests and that's where they start from go ahead jim they have huge enters together they have the russians have bass natural resources the chinese that best amounts of labor the russians need labor and the chinese need natural resources siberia used to be part of china you

know it's only in the past 150 years or so that siberia big name part of russia is the russians but you know the history i'm sure so you know this is makes perfectly natural sense it's going to be good for both countries again i'm an american i don't particularly like it. i don't like saying what's happened but no it's fabulous for everybody the russians get what they need the chinese get what they need and if you look at a map nobody wants to find those countries it's going to have. to have people their borders i mean you'd have to be crazy to build it and those 2 people. there's been a lot of craziness in washington think of iraq ok think of libya think of syria i mean don't put it past these people here ok seriously you don't not just peter you're exactly right politicians all over the world throughout history have done some unbelievably clueless things america's doing that now but don't think others

won't do them too. joe i mean what is the possibility of a reverse nixon ok because this is what you know this the new york times recently has talked about encouraging donald trump doing better relations with russia have to do what the media and the his political opposition the democrats have done for the last 3 years and how the liberal old lady great lady comes out and says mr trump you shouldn't group improve relations i mean i don't even think russia would even shake a hand extended at this point and i think that that's one of the primary reason they say we have to look east i mean it's common sense jolie go ahead and paris. while you know nixon the time came with his own terms and they were understandable then agreeable i think it goes much beyond did that trump in america today war didn't have their own terms i really appreciated what earl said from washington when he mentioned the bolton road initiative what the 2 countries what china and

russia could do to get back to them quickly this share in common is not chose quantum of interest in resources and labor their share in the interest in securing some land in developing some land in developing the hinterland of central asia and and the middle east as i said which are areas which have been blind spots for the us under many governments they have been the highlights of course for security reasons but not for economy so i think that to do whether the white house would want on not to shake hands to extend a hand to russia all be back to extend a hand to china and few years from now it's not all longer just about clinton's about trade about quantities about finance it's about having this shared joel strategic vision and development vision which is not. very much present in washington d.c. these days i think so. maybe do you with the means of their policies which have

always the potency jimmy wanted to do you want to do you want to get in jam jenkin you how can washington suddenly become friends with them with the russians the previous republican candidate for president said many times russia is i deep as bright most powerful and most dangerous enemy this is you know a guy who was running for president before trump many people in congress sit there and say like lunatics we've got to fight the russians they're terrible terrible enemy russia is and how do you know me of the united states we should be doing everything we can with them and we should be with the chinese people in washington have no clue about the world ok i see earl you're nodding your head in agreement why go ahead. absolutely i think china and russia are not enemies of the us whatever maybe they are there are there are challenges on the economic side with china let's competition. gemini that's

a competition surely it's competition and i think china china and russia are both open to a partnership with the u.s. they're not anti the u.s. but they want their own there their own vision and they have a i think shared geo political economic development vision for the world not just for central asia but and i think they're working that closely together and i think other countries realize that they respect them as well so i think there's a dangerous path for the u.s. to go and i think we need some policy shake up to realize that. both these leaders are pragmatic they realize the u.s. very influential and i think they want to work with the u.s. . ok well joe i mean i think the problem but it's not one versus the other well it doesn't that's what it gets down to in washington and i mean again in washington wants a gemini ok i see that russia and china visa v. the united states want at the very least peaceful coexistence but going back to you

know what would jim is saying you know i mean it's either one way or the other that is not going to work now because china and russia to collectively together are way too powerful and as i always like to stress to people they have resources and they can they have options ok it's something that they don't have to automatically accept promotion go ahead joel in paris. no you know the u.s. have been great in history of having one enemy but i'm not sure they would be double as great as having 2 enemies you know and i agree completely with what earl was saying that they can't afford to do is there a sure vision i don't know as an economist i would put it 2 ways 1st of all on resources there will be a competition there would be a growing competition so it's about the perception seen from d.c. on how much the u.s. can adjust to the share of sorcery to increase the rising competition for resources for global resources but the 2nd views would be in the future i think the us is

still a very dynamic very inventive technology driven society and it would be for the genius of the american people and the american nation to express confidence in their own future germany have to jump in here gentlemen we have to the only motivation we have to go to a hard break here the american people have ingenuity they just have bad leaders after a short break we'll continue our discussion on russia and stay with. good politicians to do something to. put themselves on the line. to get except the reject. so when you want to be president. or some want to be.

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said she stressed to us take this or that the british at the bottom of the in the world must have. stopped us from was so here she needs to taste it she's a cia which quite a shock. to which we don't know i'm not watching. in the best teacher or woman in there or she. want to talk to you so if you are my it's your bonus for should be. it's a mistake so it's a court of ours to put them to work to get over there is this interview are you going to these to today it's a studio surely the person to revoke or should. just go and speed.

welcome back across like where all things are considered i'm peter to remind you we're discussing russia and china. ok let's go back to earl and washington you've mentioned central asia you already twice on this program i think it's really important and instructive for our viewers to understand is that when the soviet union came to an end boris yeltsin probably the only good foreign policy decision he ever made was to work with china to make sure that there would be stability in central asia where there would not be overt strategic competition and that was a genius move because that started the process of this bilateral relationship to develop where they decided we're going to work together we're not going to compete over central asia the reason why i bring this up is that again you know the quote unquote axis of beijing and moscow if they are poor into western values what i find

very interesting is i don't see russia or china under. any circumstances exporting their economic or political model the west does that by default and what russia and china do not do that they don't say you're going to be sanctioned because of your evaluating our sense of truth or some kind of western value they just say that's what you do we do something different that's the signets a very big difference that western audiences and think tanks don't want to recognize go ahead irl. that's the absolutely true peter. you don't see russia and china kind of imposing their own political structure upon people and and expression with central asia and i just it was in their last year speaking the there are huge opportunities with the road initiative and and russia's historical relationship with them the plays a critical role as well and they're looking for economic development and they're

not looking for military they're not looking for someone to tell them what kind of government to have but they're looking for economic development and this is where i think you see this partnership between russia and china coming into play that you really put in the role of the eurasia economic union plays a role in this as well you've got a whole pathway that built and wrote an issue of because yes is or is their objective for china for it yes but but in general it's going to provide huge economic development opportunities raising millions of people out of poverty. and providing new opportunities across that whole region and that's a very key as well as providing stability so i think important thing is they want stability and they want to encourage a natural growth for these countries in that area jim just 10 years from now america is going to wake up and say oh my gosh look what's happened the chinese and the russians have one by one road they have pipelines they have labor agreements

that russians are not big debtors like the u.s. is the chinese are huge creditors america's the largest debtor nation in the history of the world what is this that we're pushing those 2 together whether the people in washing just have no clue about china and they have no clue about russia and all of us are going to suffer well i think there's an answer to that jim let me go to joel in in paris the military industrial complex i mean read what the pentagon has been saying since the. beginning of this year mean with their position papers i mean that's just the gravy train it's the gravy train we've got another enemy now in there together oh my goodness the sky is falling we need more money more military more expenditures because as we've all pointed out on this program when china and russia will be building in the hugest in infrastructure projects probably in the history of humanity all across the eurasian landmass the united states is its its infrastructure will continue to crumble and it will waste money

on the military on a threat that they hope they will never have to honor and that means going to war with 2 of the most important countries on the planet that explains everything it's stupid at its core but it explains it go ahead joe. yes maybe here i would trigger liberty to answer as a french because in france we do have a military industry now it's true that over the last 15 to 20 years the military complex in the us has increasingly. been for commercial attitude now a military complex can also serve as a driver for innovation and the only thing that at least for china the military complex is there to help chinese renaissance chinese developing new technology the chinese companies developing new technologies by being able to have a divided from that what's military what its jewel technology and what's what civilian i know less about. but i think it's a bargain i think

a very true it's about the. american military or military complex to be maybe kind of 3 shuffled or re regulated by the police in d.c. in the congress and or the white house and i think that's very important for the sustainability of international relations i would just want to add one thing and central asia few countries are very very strategic like kazakhstan i think kazakstan is very loose treaty of how to get countries china and russia work together. you know on the least have explored whether the 2 countries would disagree on the trains going true and it's a 2 and if agreed and for the shared interest and for the interest of kazakhstan and development maybe the next learn look maybe the next problem would be would be ukraine where here of course the russian position is slightly different ok but i

mean earlier you know one can make the argument i've heard this many many times is it the reason to overthrow the government in ukraine in 2014 was to obstruct this the whole eurasian land mass development they want to pull ukraine out of it in. it into the western orbit hillary clinton the worst secretary of state in history said this actually in congress but i want to slightly change gears here earl one of the other things that's happening here as russia and china gravitate towards each other we also have these technological competition that joel has been mentioning is that what we could will get is a dual internet will have dual technologies we have to be on one platform or another and i think that there's a lot of people in washington are terrified that people will choose the eastern platform and i mean everything you can imagine telephones community computers tell communicate everything ok it's like the difference between android a n n o s ok

will be different and they don't want to see russia and china leading that because that will be a major technological challenge to the supremacy of the west what do you think irl . well i think there are always going to be bridges across and i think it's important to keep bridges those gateways across but but there is. obviously there's a concern and you can see this bearing out with a while away. you know aggression that's going on towards them. always leading technology in 5 g. 5 g.'s the next area for communications infrastructure that enables so much more expansion new development for corporations and startups and capabilities and now you've seen noun. you've got russia russian company now you can be developing software for who always mobile because they get cut off from android russia is now cooperating with them on a 5 g. infrastructure projects so you've got that's going to be an enabler for

a new communications high speed infrastructure and and yeah you've got. there there's overlap the interrupter operate but i think they want to be independent in case they get cut off in case something happens you can be independent and you can till still continue to operate and that and that's throws that throws that there's a i'll tell you where the security threat is for for a while it's not them tapping into anything it's our ability not to tap into some of their networks that's where the concern is i think more so as well as trade in competition to what 11 power spying is better than another is that's really a credible that's that that's called exceptionalism gone brizard but anyway jim you want to change it go ahead he is your need to see not just technology but when then says well you know the russians and the chinese and others indians are coming up with a new competition to the american tour natural system there will be

a new world bank there will be a new i.m.f. because the americans today don't like you they cut you off from the u.s. dollar where the chinese are the russian the brazilians and then you say wait a minute this is. search system so now america's forcing a new world bank a new i am they have a new everything and then the u.s. dollar will have its supremacy because we have abused ourselves it's going to build up a whole new competitive financial system not just technology ok joel let's say school i want to have a parent article here what would it take for you because this is what you constantly hear and think think tanks you know what would it take to entice russia to turn westward again what would it have what would have to happen ok what sanction relief all these kinds of things here i'm just trying to imagine a scenario where you can reverse the trends that have been going on for a couple of decades about what could stop this trend of russia and china getting

closer and closer together go ahead in paris. well you know i think the answer to your question lies in the fact that there's nothing like the west either in finance in currencies in trade or in technology there's nothing by deal with this do you with say. some countries in europe as the e.u. you know some eastern european countries not part of the u. there's not a west and the question is whether we see a west in which we antagonize russia if we see a great addition of western countries in which is russia can have its its space and please you know no this is too generic and then but you forget the specifics for instance technology for instance energies i think in technology we are going to be cool thinking for talking from a european person to you the europeans are not quite there in the 5 g. that's all key we are there in batteries we have their new electric vehicles i

think russia could have the same person you all trying to have different alliances different technology called an economy partnerships with different countries so i think. it's all natural for china and russia to get closer for russia to go to was china as a close neighbor sharing some interest as i said but on all the fronts technology finance i think the eurozone. parts of the e.u. can be natural partners as well so it's not so much i would say is science fiction. senile you i think it's about the world getting really really motor natural like deeply truly evil to natural not multilateral the u.s. we will get well that's a very good point because it is there is a vision for a multilateral world but at has a hedge i'm on the alternative is there is not a hedge i'm on and it is based on competition and i think that's what the russian and chinese are are going for it so i'm sorry i'm sorry we're running out of time

gentlemen for the last run out of time your idea many thanks and i guess here is washington and in singapore and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember. when i was still seem wrong. but all. just don't call. me. to shape out to stay active. and engaged because the trail. went something find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground.

you know. i'm one of them but i threw my she ended up by going to one when israel buddy had. a lot. of them one night he should have been there so. i don't want or i think that's i mean yes i knew she was going to that home of community yeah i am kind of whom he could feel that he had to keep. going i know i need to move i want to follow the man that you know enough i don't know before i don't know. we are in a depression in america in populations all over america there's poverty and more

than half the population lives at or below the poverty line so they're already is a bit of a ghost depression going on which has developed into a full blown depression because of neither policies work from the central bank so maybe the problem is the subtle. paradise with all year round turned into a round the experimentation field for agricultural chemicals we know that these chemicals have consequences they are major irritants there's no question otherwise why would the chemical company workers themselves be geared up that suited up locals attempt to combat the on regulated experiments good often in day you have many of these people one foot into the biotech pharma and the other foot in the government regulatory bodies this kind of collusion is reprehensible while the battle goes. the chemicals continue to poison the why and its people so one has to

ask the question whether there is a form of environmental research going on in hawaii whether these companies feel they can get away with this because the people have less political power. the british prime minister secures the queen's approval to suspend parliament until mid october now it's being seen as a risky move to block m.p.'s challenges of avoiding a no deal breaks that. russian journalist over shinseki is released from pretrial detention piece spent a year in a ukrainian jail waiting to face charges of treason. as the global outcry continues over the fires and go thing vos chants of the amazon rain forest the brazilian government's business practices on ties to watch.