china his was the doldrums not yet resigned f.b.i. director christopher ray says about china it's a threat to our economic security and by extension it's a threat to our national security but it's even more fundamental and that is behavior that violates the rule of law it violates principles of fairness and integrity it violates our rules based world order that's existed since the end of world war 2. put plainly china scene's determined to steal its way up the economic ladder at our expense we broke state bent on theft suffice it to say that the us is clearly violated the post 945 rules based order from career in vietnam to palestine nicaragua or in cuba here though is what china is saying about us policy if the us and china will have to respond to me highness never afraid of any pressure on china certainly has been pressured he has a us cable news presenter telling the world not even to be surprised by revelations

from former cia contractor edward snowden now in moscow for safety it's not a huge surprise that the u.s. military is engaged in off fans of cyber attacks yes but the usa is not just offensively hacking countries it is involved in full spectrum surveillance as revealed by edward snowden arguably making accusations against chinese companies like wall way even more risible joining me now by skype from the british colony of the meter is guinness world record holder jim rogers he founded the quantum funder george soros and is the author of a bull in china investing profitably in the world's greatest market jim welcome to going underground so you've said trump is making china great again do you think something chinese communist party officials a law fing at the latest sanctions against weiwei well trump called out of the trans-pacific partnership and the chinese looked around and said well that means we're the only ones left they can take over asia now. and maybe that's what mr trump is thinking make america great but it's doing a lot to make china great because now they don't have any major rivals in asia and

the pacific rim ensure if you know you've been talking for years about the end of the dollar or perhaps the end of the dollar as a reserve currency do you think china will be seeing this and the developments of the bank as they try and promote that as as presaging the end of the dollar or as you well know several people were several countries in the world to look. for replace mart least the competitive with u.s. dollars it is starting to happen there are the banks that the chinese and others have developed to compete with the u.s. dollar and it's happening i mean when the pound sterling lost its status it didn't happen in a year didn't happen in a decade but it happened and the same thing is starting to happen with the us stock i know you've been saying it for a while lots of people been saying for a while and you you just put your historian hat on there saying mentioning the british empire why has it taken so long for countries like russia china iran to

start using currency swaps in rubles and renminbi this. 1st of all there's no went for structure if you call up your bank and say i want to do something else the bank doesn't know what to do nearly and earlier everywhere in the world including america including in iran so it takes a while for people to start thinking about it it takes a while for people to actually learn how to do it and it takes a while for people to do it a bench everybody does it is 2nd nature they know that it's better off or it's easy thing to do but right now i know most places in the world if you save foreign currency everybody says u.s. dollars that's the problem and that's why people are competitors and now trying to rise because they gave us dollar and u.s. government too much power i don't know where the run into christine legarde recently the famously convicted previously convicted of corruption in the french quarter head of the i.m.f. but i mean when you meet people like that they don't seem nearly as concerned as you do and they seem relatively sanguine about the world order of the world

financial architecture the bureaucrats the way you make it in that world is you you rouse up to academia or bureaucracy and you do what you're supposed to do you do what everybody else is does you accept the conventional wisdom and then all of a sudden you look around and the whole world is changed and you don't know what happened for goodness sakes if you're good and you heard lies from government bureaucrats and politicians and academics oh my goodness you're going to have real problems i'm not sure how many countries the united states currently sanctions but do you really think the united states might sanction turkey a nato ally turkey because it's now threatening turkey after it's obviously been threatening recently more on venezuela or on iran and who knows who else it should look around in the past 2 or 3 years especially the last 2 or 3 years america keeps doing contradictory things one day they say x. the next day they say why and i'm not sure anybody in washington has

a central focus on what's going on mr trump. doesn't seem too and then i don't know who else does you see that recently and the middle east they started attacking capture or capture one of our largest charity bases and they're in white truck and the people in washington were badmouthing catchall right left and senate and finally somebody glimmers to drop is that they wait a minute you know one of our largest military bases there let's calm this down do you think ironically as well the american people seem to understand some of the things you've been saying for so many years because the word socialism is now in parlance and people like sun does talk about mass infrastructure projects probably a bit like china who knows as the only way to stop the kind of financial meltdown you've been predicting since 2008 we're going to have another one even though the central bank in america says we want and what i said is that the next one is going to be the worst in my lifetime i don't know when it's going to be i guess you should watch our team to find out when but you know in 2008 we had

a problem because that too much debt well since then the debt is skyrocketed everywhere even china has a lot of debt now so no we're certainly going to have another one and it's going to be the worst in my lifetime now i know you are out there for all the big investors but we have here british steel going a bust in this country and so many of the names famous for the privatizations ever since the 980 s. in this country mrs thatcher what would you suggest a government like britain's to do to begin that she lies in now ahead of any big meltdown like the one you're talking about. no no national it's never been good for anybody do you think the post office is a paragon of fictious it you think you can't you probably think that reprivatize the post office here i have to tell you it's just the united states you go national when we had one 0 that's right they didn't profit does the post office there so over the internet i don't know the middle is

a go but every room is the british post office nearly privatized is also in financial trouble that maybe somebody should take it maybe they should take over the american post office and try to fix ours i was certainly not very efficient. nationalization in my view you know we tried socialism we tried comminges and we tried it many many places many many times it has not worked maybe it will work the next time we try it but human nature is such that it's not going to work while we are responding to this latest us google attack by saying they're going to start vertical integration in their own operating system some people saying soon relatively soon china will be able to supply its own market let alone the international markets do you see policymakers understanding what's going on in that part of the will that you invest so much in i will certainly say that sanctions have never worked they've always hurt people in the end for instance right now every morning russian farmers wake up and say thank you mr trump he put sanctions

on russian farmers russian agriculture is booming booming because of the sanctions what unfortunate is going to happen is the chinese are going to become self-sufficient in many things which means that many american companies are going to lose their markets you say that the chinese will not be able to produce everything well but i'm skeptical of that statement because they're 1300000000 chinese they produce 10 times as many engineers every year is american some of the bad engineers somehow got to be good so i don't i don't think this is going to rebound and. heard of america rather than helpless just finally thanks for the advert for r.t. but of course a lot of us of a t.n. around the world tend to blame george soros and i know you work closely with him what do you think about these attacks on single individuals instead of into structures when it comes to neo liberalism in the fight back against their liberalism 1st action which killed 48 was 40 years ago you might as well as me

about my 1st wife you just saw it was doing nor do i care but certainly most arguments amount hanumant never been good you know if you cannot come up with a logical rational argument on your own you start attacking people that's never been a good it's back when i was a kid in university where used to say if you start resorting to argumentum ad hominem that means you've lost it lost the argument jim rogers thank you well as u.k. media picks apart the results of the e.u. elections one thing is almost certain that the left wing case for brix it will not receive airtime on the likes of the british state mandated b.b.c. or channel 4 something that anger is the only kissed poet actor and writer benjamin zephaniah whose band the revolutionary minds is currently on to a bringing views ignored by the mainstream to people across the u.k. we met him at the premises studios in east london benjamin thanks for being on

going underground again while we had the premises studio in east london and what is the revolutionary minds of the tour the album the track wow. truck. on the album i go through that by. the revolution of i think we need not necessarily one where people type of street and what i saw for the something different we need a bit of that mood about trying to get people to think differently i'm just convinced about the old way of doing stuff and just redundant the more you get up from going to point to people who are here to change you know money but you know absolutely before you know i feel like a nonissue. and that's the only way i can describe myself because i look at so many overweight people have tried and i think they're all letting us down in one way or another and we've got to find a new way i don't know what the name of it is i'm not telling people have devolved i'm just trying to say think outside the box you know what i actually read loki redrill minister mussy folly x. even mainstream stars like storms if you're on this music too or i mean i turn on

the b.b.c. and channel 4 in britain and they often have debates about whether it's the music that's part of the problem as regards arguable economic violence austerities is the 20 weight crash music as far as i've seen as not made people on imply that music is not put people into by the house in. music and not let kids on the street hungry music is not cause homelessness music is trying to reflect those feelings lisa jailing or suspended sentences only for musicians drill music in south london the start in south london now international that's being blamed for the rise in syria's use drones i know. artists that do drill music and what used to be cold rolled music and grime music and. a lot of them a very creative people but they live in a very hostile environment and they're just reflecting the reality and when i

started creating music it was reggae music and we were talking about employer unemployment you talk about bubbling under system it was doing it that's what it was doing to us that was our reality there's a wonderful. sorry for quoting it may seem stereotypical for a guy with dreadlocks to be quoting him of a guy who dreadlocks but it was an interview when somebody was interviewing bob marley and said you know why is your work so political and he just didn't understand the question i grieve that it was just the thing was just an honest cause he just for i'm just writing about my reality on this writing about the way we live on one thing about the way we suffer i'm writing about the way we're policed you know i'm writing about the way colonialism is affecting me. you didn't sit down to go and i'm going to write political music and i don't think you know just going to write really drill music to upset people and cause violence this is the reality more from the germans up in iran when drudge wiki leaks in the left wing case fabric sets after the break as well as

a performance from the band the revolutionary minds. and politicians to do something to. put themselves on the line they did accept the rejected. so when you want to be president i'm sure. will somehow want to be rich. but you'd like to be close it's like that before 3 in the morning can't be good. i'm interested always in the why is it our. first city. to get up off the ground yasser begins again. on the sounds of. the grenade we recently.

switched it away from the officer. we obviously did a kind of lunge for the weapon once mr anywhere. had been done she swung and i didn't hit him i never saw any contact with you till they became a back to where they were still doubters back here to try again 15 feet apart at this point and actually have. his gun he did. your watching going underground in part 2 of our interview with anarchist poet benjamin zephaniah at the premises studios in east london jimmy cliff was on this show around the time the wholesale environment story started to emerge and obviously he was suitably angry but since theresa may and the disgraced home secretary i think she might be burning now for leader this is she went we've been having african families on the show to hear about people who are in their eighty's

who never traveled abroad or who were people with threat of deportation people can go to funerals there are deaths in jamaica after deportation i mean surprise us going underground you you've been talking about issues to do with immigration and racism for longer does it surprise you in 1993 i pro 99 to pray joy gardner was killed she was killed by an organization called extradition squad but was a squad that used to go around and deport people she was in the house with her son and they came i'm going to quote my own poetry they put a live a belt around her fur 1000 feet of type and pound hunk officer to cure her and only god knows what else sees illegal soul the porter had the empire that brought her she died nobody killed and she never killed herself it is i would jump to make

return to jamaica so the alien deported to deport people like me. the poems much longer than that i wrote that in 1993 you know this is being going on for years i used to travel to jamaica and i remember once around the same time probably a bit early and eighties getting on a plane and behind me there was a woman in handcuffs and when she saw me to recognize me she screamed benjamin benjamin help me please help me and i said what's the problem today deporting me deported me i came to england when i was 6 months old they send him back to jamaica i don't know how to make a brother help me help me and i got up to sit and talk with the police as the back office. and all food affrighted jamaica i could hear a cry and i just wouldn't let me go near so we've known about this for years this is the 21st century and the these plates are going on i don't know why you're so

surprised no it doesn't surprise me. it's very sad that it doesn't surprise me but it doesn't surprise me not much has changed and certainly when it comes to crime of. immigration there was no time in the home office is when the home office said a stop we're going to have a look at this. and and do something about it they've just been tweaking it and then the strange thing is that we can it in the wrong direction they're not creating an environment for these people to feel at home they're creating a hostile environment that's not a word that living of metaphor in but i words are generated from a yes we've just recently we've had 5 people killed in jamaica and i heard from another one does a couple of days ago after deportation yes after deportation one guy did just come back he came here while he was young but i had a driving offense and they sent him back and he said all these neighbor think is

a rapist in a murder because some empathy said we're only deported rape you for murder of and and he's been deported on a driving offense i don't know about you but i have a driver defense you know we get parking tickets all the time speeding tickets or department i don't you look so innocent i don't have a driver. there's just been very big campaign about the change was ireland maybe many people have been don't know much about it. while either involved and what did you make of this court ruling that the british films are being annoying that britain has to release its imperial control of these islands in the pacific well 1st of all what you said is right every time i write or talk about these islands i get feedback from people saying never heard of it could destroy really have happened. that's why i talk about it it's so outrageous what happened does ireland and when it comes to the british government ignore in. the court's

rulings well that shows you that. when people talk about the rule of law but fine until it's an inconvenience for them and then they just ignore it especially when it comes to the child island because it's not really in the headlines i mean i think at the moment a lot of important things in pretty soon international politics but i'm speaking from a british perspective are not in the headlines because we're so overwhelmed repressive and the government are going away with a lot of things because of that i mean if you go on question time as i've been on a few times. and i. brought that up they would tell me that it's not current news you know if it's not in the papers now so it would be shut down. so who decides what is current and was not current rosie feel that the know this still should be an issue very much in the news of bricks it though is the main issue in this country and i understand i mean you've

been on the mainstream journals really bad is there that that one of the people that helped you through this was joanie ben the late journey beyond just tell me a bit about that about what really peddled you a break well tony benn was always anti you and. and he i always say he's the nearest thing i had to a political mentor because i could sit down with him for i was and he would talk to me about things i was trying to work out and he was always very open with me always say this is the way i see it you may see the other way and i remember him telling me about the many always felt that it was distant. undemocratic but also. this is something i feel a revolutionary. if i want to go and get my politician. i think not very far from here but the ones in europe are very far away and the scattered you know some of the minibus or some of them in frankfurt the minimum in paris you know. so deep

down my instinct was to kind of follow tony benn's example and to want to leave for if you like left wing reasons the sad thing was that just wasn't part of the debate when when i saw the people i was getting in bed with and the reasons why vi were leaving they just didn't correspond with the reasons why i want to leave so you know i made it clear i voted to remain i mean the birth of a royal baby oh now you're not going to tell me that media seriously called you up to comment on the worth of oil where we're in jersey which identity politics raises imperialism in a context just some wind when the baby was a day old well this is a very important moment in our history. no providing look i'm just not interested in revolutionary minds don't give a damn when a baby in the palace is born i'm really not interested about what you think is

going through the minds of the kinds of journalists that immediately think it could be a black baby uncle benjamin's of i don't i it's very difficult to get into the mind of somebody think that there's some some journalist some media people who think that you know. benjamin's i. can be andrew card. for these are the spokespeople for the black community and we never claim to be we just we have our point of view and we create art and i pod or whatever and we have a point of view but we never claim to speak for the black community and we none of us are experts on black people but they seem to think we are you know i mean i've had worse things than that i had an interview there were a day where a lady kind of reached out to me different from benjamin tell me what is it like to be black i should remember that this is

a critical loving how do you ok just i just that either of never being what i think judy is belmarsh prison the circle guantanamo of prisons in this country what do you make of wiki leaks and. and the situation where you are in journalism which you know i really don't know much about him but as soon as i started to hear about his work subtly kind of forward that it would end this way the idea of somebody who says there's all this stuff that hidden from you and i'm going to show you that i'm going to give it to you left right and center. it's the kind of person i've always wanted to see you know what i've always i've always felt that there's so much that we just don't know about it and here's somebody to kind of put me in the public domain one thing that really upsets me is that we don't hear about all the stuff that they're putting out i sort of film

of american soldiers shooting innocent people in the street you know this is big news these are the kinds of things that the people of my country the people who worship know about these are the kind of thing that these people get up to there's a line of poetry and monitored one of my tracks on the album is called in this world and the line that you could apply to it and it says we live in a world where people who expose corruption in illegal activities and governments become the ones who are persecuted and hunted down we live in a world where both of expose violations of the law of themselves violated by the law and i really think that's what's happening to him tell me about cool down because people are told whether privatization of stress being mental illness obviously there's a scary obviously there's a kind of revolutionary fervor on demonstrations uprisings what is just one cool

down about it's about young people and i got to say it was originally written about 10 years ago it's about young people on the streets who were kind of killing themselves at my use and guns fighting because this kind of post cold war the side case of a day where a kid is just sit in that position or a guy comes up to me says what ends are you from you didn't even answer him suspecting that he came from the place we shot him. i do think sometimes it is overblown in the media but i do know a parent to have lost their children that way so for them it's a very serious thing i'd be if you noticed a couple of weeks ago a very similar story. so it was a message to them i've always said that. in the kind of society we live in it's natural to be angry you know it's what you do. and when you just start killing your neighbors and your brothers and sisters you're directing it in the wrong why

run from under oath about ruth kind of sometimes when people carted type to the people that i read the press and then they start to think i've got themselves and i think that's what's happening bedouins and i thank you and now benjamin zephaniah and the revolutionary minds with cold out. you. could. feel like i was crying. thanking me. because the crew coco.

revoking. the egypt thank you. thank you. thank you thank you. thank. you really should be. looking for a way out to try to get. maybe folks. movie finds ways to radio.

but. most. leave most. an.

issue you know that. he's going to get killed and the chicken dads. who made the most of all the. simple. we are in a depression in america populations all over america there's poverty and more than half the population lives below the poverty line so they're already has a bit of a ghost depression going on which has developed into

a full blown depression because of neither policies work from the central bank so maybe the problem is the central. british prime minister secures the queen's approval to suspend parliament until mid october and what is being seen as a risky move to block m.p.'s chances of avoiding a no deal breaker. as the global outcry continues over the fires in golfing vast tracks of the amazon rain forest to the brazilian government's business practices and ties to washington come under increased scrutiny. and a russian journalist to machine is relieved from pretrial detention he spent a year in a ukrainian jail waiting facing charges of treason.