well welcome to sophie shevardnadze. of the u.s. is still just a dream or does help spring eternal when it comes to beating the curse of aging having haunted us for centuries as a solution is finally within our grasp dr upgrade to grady and the anti-aging piano here in the chief science officer and co-founder of sens research foundation is my guest today. through the ages human self strongly. mortality and now with the president a technological leaps we might finally have a chance at the longevity of biblical prophets but how can science achieve possible will ever lasting life only be available to the rich creating a permanent population divide the. cycle of life and death sleep to catastrophic

and unexpected consequences. dr operate a great anti-aging pioneer chief science officer and co-founder of say or search a research foundation welcome to the show great to have you with us so what you propose in order to reverse aging claiming the organism all the junk that accumulates tear on a cellular level so tell me the gist of it why will that stop the wearing of time on my organs. well it's not quite that simple what we propose. we keep people healthy lives who are if. the body goes through itself throughout the course of its. cumulation of worth. between. but so it is not

quite like that for example sometimes simply we have too many of a particular bad type of cell though it's not that it's misbehaving or in other cases we don't have enough of a particular good time cells die and they're not necessarily replaced automatically by the division of other cells furthermore the damage to. the structure the kind of lattice of proteins that holds the body together which is called the extracellular matrix so as you can see there are many different types of damage and we have to fix them all now our work at sense research foundation is exactly that we're focusing on many of these things because we know that they all need to be developed and applied to the pit people all the same time in due course and in a few cases the rest of the world is already understanding this and focusing well on them so for example of course there's a huge amount of stem cell research going on worldwide but the reason we created

the foundation was because there are plenty of other areas which were very neglected luckily we've made lots of progress in that so now everyone's getting much more excited about it this is like a very general description of what you do what you strive for a better one how does this look technically like what do you do is it like a potion that you can jafta new ourself or what is this that you're working on. well let me answer that in 2 ways from the point of view of the person who's going to be receiving these therapies and also from the point of view of people like us the researchers who are developing them from the point of view of the person who's going to be receiving them they will just look like that you like no medicines delivered by injections or perhaps with pills in some cases the maybe surgery involved. into the what is being injected or introduced however it's going to be very very complicated lots of different components to it we'll be doing stem cell therapies we will still be doing gene therapy. bases where we introduce engineer

viruses into the body that modify the the the the d.n.a. of ourselves there will also be immunotherapy for stimulating the immune system to do things to repair things that it's normally isn't doing and also simple you know pharmaceuticals now in terms of developing these things it gets pretty complicated so for example one way in which we addressing the problem of waste product of the accumulation of stuff inside cells that stops them working is we are identifying bacteria that have the ability to break these things down and then we identify the genes that they have the given that ability and having done that with and modify those gains so that we can put them into human cells and they still work and we've succeeded in this regard in relation to some very important aspects of aging that a caused by the accumulation of waste one of them is atherosclerosis the

number one killer in the western world another one is macular degeneration which is the number one cause it's a successful drug test or surgery trial or anything else that gives proof that this is all within grasp that this is actually working. we've had a number of big hits but not quite of that kind because we work on the early stages of this research when we get to the point where therapy prospective therapy is anywhere near going to into the clinic to be actually used on human beings it's kind of no longer our problem by that time we have already maybe created a spin out company and transferred the intellectual property into the company so that it can attract investment from women from from wealthy people around the world and they're the people who take it forward to clinical trials for the moment so through such foundation has existed for more than a decade we've been doing this research but just in the past few years maybe 2 or 3 years we have been taking several of our project through out to the private sector

in the way i just described start up companies and those companies are not yet in clinical trials but in general they're only one or 2 years away from that point so the big hits that we've had in terms of allowing this to be seen as a feasible idea previously the approaches that we have pursued 10 years ago they were just viewed i was completely impossible everyone of the officially given up on these areas and we showed that they should have given up and you just need to try a bit harder so it doesn't seem that your research went down too well with the scientific community where sense is branded by some as i said a science do you feel this accounts hold water i mean learning from peer reviews and criticism is a major part of any way strange do you feel the negative in put has been helpful. the mistake that you have made in that analysis is you haven't looked at the dates

of the various reactions to what we say there was indeed a great deal of skepticism and opposition and he did denigration of this work when i 1st started putting it forward 1015 years ago people didn't really understand what i was going and as you say they often thought that it was just on scientific but i was able to engage my colleagues and careful scientific debate on these areas back in the mid 2000 and the result was basically i was convincing i was able to demonstrate that actually the only reason why my colleagues had been skeptical was because they didn't really understand what i would say and now this decade we're in a very different position in fact it's so good that people are reinventing the concept and pretending it's the new one and actually getting you know this is not completely mainstream papers being written used ready as the official or the

touchstone of the field as a kind of description of what the field is supposed to be doing and they're identically what i said a decade earlier so yes that fun to figure out what has been completely factual there are very very few people now who would say that this is unfair and if it so you've been saying that one of the major problems your research is facing is money why is that i mean don't reach people want to live forever don't we all want to cure disease. unfortunately the very way to persuade someone that they ought to support this financially does not only confess of getting scientific legitimacy yes with me their will to show that this is a sensible way to proceed but that doesn't say that it's going to succeed any time soon it could take a long long time and of course people don't like to get their hopes up you know people like to kind of put aging out of a mind and you know get on with their lives and kind of not be preoccupied by this

terrible thing that's going to happen to them and wildly research remains a relatively early stage that the time frame before it becomes really available is still very speculative but you know it's kind of not surprising that people are a little reluctant to get heavily involved that is changing now because things are far enough along as i mentioned that they can be invested in so people can actually make money out of this which kind of distracts them from getting too emotionally invested in whether they're going to be able to benefit themselves in terms of the therapy and so that's that's all working out quite nicely but there are so many other irrational reasons especially in the west why people don't get involved in this they'll say you know that it's because their wife doesn't want them to or it's because they think their shareholders are going to fail that they're. putting money

into science fiction and the price of that company will go down or you know the the they'll think that for example. philanthropy doesn't work you know crazy reasons like that but this is gradually changing over time i will say however that in russia when i come to russia i never have this problem whenever i speak whenever i come to russia i love it because everyone's really sensible about it they really want to. actually see this yeah and i bet they trust you because you look like dostoyevsky so. they probably see you and they're like oh he's trustable. well some people say i look like respites info doesn't necessarily work so tell me something what is your ultimate and again do you want to prolong life or do you just want to eliminate death altogether. well neither of those things really what i

do is a medical research so i'm interested in keeping people healthy however long ago there were books that's all now of course most people die from being unhealthy for big sick and certainly most people these days in the developed world when they get sick it's because they were born long time ago it's because they're old so that means that if we fix that if we keep people healthy when they're older than on average they will probably live a lot longer than they currently do you know that's a side effect it's a really nice side effect i think you know life is valuable life is good but the fact is it's still a side effect so we shouldn't really be thinking in terms of longevity let alone you know immortality the goal here the goal is simply to keep people healthy same as it is for the whole of the rest of medicine all right we're going to take a short break right now and when we're back we'll continue talking to operate a brain anti-aging researcher a chief science officer and co-founder of sands research foundation discussing

germination therapies and they promise everlasting genes stay with us. this is a sticker from the water bottle found in the stomach of the fish the brand is part of the coca-cola company which sells millions of bottles of soda every day the idea . is that let's tell consumers they're the bad was there the litter box they're

throwing this away industry should be blamed for all this waste the company has long promised to reuse the plastic. that's. a special projects funded me. on the. phone now the mountains of waste only grow while. the continuing brags that saga is boris johnson a friend or foe of democracy and another saga russia gate is the way to treat justice system one for the protected and one for the rest of us. during the great depression which are old enough to remember that it was most of the family were unemployed working. there wasn't it was bed much worse objectively

today but there was an expectation of the things were going to get better. there was a real sense of hope. there isn't today today's america was shaped by the turn principles of concentration of wealth and power. reduced democracy attack solo duo engineer elections manufacture consent and other principles according to no on. one set of rules for the rich. that's what happens when you put her into the. roof wilf which is dedicated to increasing virtue of just as you'd expect one of the most influential intellectuals of our time speaks about the modern civilization of america.

boy bad what. action this 7 researcher chief science officer and co-founder of research foundation talking about human body rejuvenation knowledge show so some are saying. aging people is set to hit the global economy by 20. do you see any major rejuvenation solutions available by that time. i will go further i would say that absolutely this rejuvenation by technology is the only way that we are going to keep the ageing of the population from completely crippling the global economy already we're in

a hugely problematic situation of course the difficulty is that the reason why we have so many people who are. elderly now is because number one we are preventing them from dying young because we're really good now at curing infectious diseases and so on but also because they thought the types of thing that people get sick from later in life they are slowly progressive chronic problem so people don't die out once the way they do from typical infections there will continue to gradually sicker and sicker and sicker and more and more expensive over time and so if everyone is doing that then of course the economic burden is absolutely astronomical and yes absolutely the only way we're going to be able to fix this is with rejuvenation technologies as a result of which we will have of course far more older people chronologically old

but far fewer sick people and therefore we will save a huge amount of money so will poor people be able to get access to this rejuvenation therapy well be affordable. oh yes and it will be affordable precisely because of my previous answer from the point of view of the government in any country you are look at whatever the political regime whatever whatever kind of country any country it will be far more expensive to let people get sick just because they can't afford these therapies than to keep people healthy in other words they for peace will pay for themselves exactly exact mechanism of how this is done of course will vary from one country to another depending on whether they have private healthcare depending on whether you know it's a democracy or not but the ultimate logic will apply across the board if the repairs will be enormously economically valuable and therefore it will be

economically absolutely imperative for any country to ensure that everybody rich everybody who is old enough to need them gets them even if they can't afford to pay for them themselves so let's say those in positions of power whether it's politicians or business models goes through rejuvenation therapy every couple of decades i mean they could just stay there forever never letting anyone new in their circle all of that number seriously what will the absence of the great equalizer do to the way our society is functioning. so of course i don't know precisely how the world is going to develop once we don't have aging anymore you know the world will be very different and a whole lot of ways because of people living longer people not getting sick people you know just being able to carry on contributing wealth to society maybe we will develop ways to incentivize people to step down and have new careers you

know just make them pay higher taxes the longer they stay in the same job things like that you know there are a 1000000 ways to solve these problems we just another detail yet but we don't need to know. so you don't think about how that's going to affect humanity in our societies coming up with something so groundbreaking as anti-aging medicine. let me be clear i certainly think about these things but i also recognize that i'm not an economist i'm not a politician i'm not a theologian you know i'm a biologist so all i'm doing is telling the people who are professional economists and so on what's going to happen and roughly how soon it's going to happen so they can do their job figuring out how society should now the guy that transition so like a real running out of space on this planet already they've this earth is overpopulated where will we all leave and how will we sustain ourselves i mean if we assume it won't be just a chosen few like you say and there will be enough for a given

a people to make an impact. right so we have to look at what other technologies are coming along at the moment you're quite right we already have the problem of overpopulation that's why we have climate change but the solution to that is not necessarily to have fewer people but rather to reduce the amount of pollution that people generate whether it's by. moving from fossil fuels to renewable energy or whether it's with artificial meats or whether it's with large scale desalination you know there are lots and lots of technologies that are already coming along and coming along even without the society having really woken up to the problem of climate change just coming along because the proving to be cheaper. original alternative and those technologies are going to increase the carrying capacity of the planet's going to mean that we can have a lot more people on the planet with less environmental impact than we have today.

that's the way we need to think about this already the problem is being solved and if you ask questions like how rapidly will the population rise as a result of the end of ageing the actual arithmetic is not particularly scary you know the moment we've got 7 and a half 1000000000 people people think by 2050 we might have 9000000000 or 10000000000 we certainly won't have more than 11 or 12000000000 even if we completely eliminate ageing tomorrow. so do you see people who know they will leave longer having fewer kids are a possibility that we're production could be less important in future will of course we're certainly saying today it's pretty much universal i think the only exception in the history of civilization is israel almost universally well and the country reaches a certain level of prosperity and female amounts of patient education then the

photos he writes goes down dramatically and there's a big thing that we need to take into account which is. not only do women on average have fewer kids but also they tend to have them later than they otherwise than they previously you. know because it's only a little bit lighter moment because very little boys exists in other words there's only so late you can go before you can have at the top and people want to have kids at some point but menopause is one of the things that's going to go away we're going to be able to make it safe. kids at any age so the 1st reaction to that may be that means that the average woman is going to have more kids in the top in their entire life because they're going to carry on having them but if we take into account this delay that we're seeing we can ask well ok this delay happened because women choosing to do other things with their life before they do this terribly time consuming thing of having kids. if they come but it's likely that on average

they're going to do having their 1st kid by another decade another decade or so actually we may even further reduce the rate of childbirth overall in the population so you've said that once this therapy has been made comprehensive you'll be able to choose your own age live like your biological 50 or like your 20 who will choose to be old that are old people going to disappear altogether. i certainly don't expect that very many people will choose to be biologically old for obeying biologically old means your body isn't working for also means your mind isn't working for well so i believe that indeed we will have pretty much no biologically old people even though of course we will have a much greater number of chronologically old people aging maybe it came to it is easy as you put it but it also is a personal experience and we would trust older people because they know what it's

like to be frail to see things past their wiser less careless what absence of aging take away all that from society like a big part of it actually. this intended goal i don't see why people would. i don't see why people would become any less wise as a result of being healthier you know a 100 year old person who is still able to think of as they could when they were 30 is pro-drug going to be more able to make the most of their wisdom than 100 year old who is of the kind that we see today so what will renewing yourselves do to our memories our experiences i mean will those be flushed out or damaged as you clear the pathways of the brain of deaths else certainly not in fact we can produce so the opposite of what we see dimentia today in alzheimer's disease is of course a loss of the ability to remember things and to recall things. but there is good

evidence that the main reason for this is not that the memories are gone but rather the system for retrieving memories is damaged so actually ready we may end up being able to have older people be have more memory of past them later today. you're also working on the technology cray apparent preservation that will give people the option to have their bodies frozen in liquid nitrogen until the technology is there to bring them back to life how is this supposed to work i mean will this be like waking up after a really long sleep will the person's still with same. so 1st of all just to correct a little bit i don't i actually don't actually work on that it sounds research foundation but certainly i'm a strong supporter of cryonics. so yes it will be very much like being in a deep sleep or coma for

a long time. the whole idea is simply that it's. ready revive somebody we will do so out a point where we can repair the damage that caused them to become legally dead in the 1st place over i'm sure you know the definition of death the legal definition of death has had to train. as medicine has improved and we have become able ready to repair and revive people who were previously thought to be on revival and this is just the next step in that process oh boy oh well let's just wait and see thank you very much for this interesting insights into the prospects of immortality and longevity it was really interesting talking to you. we were talking to dr outbreak decree anti-aging repair near am paint chips science officer and co-founder of sands research foundation but his mission a world war he says everlasting that's it for this edition of so thank lossie next

time. said she stressed to me not long but they said that the british and the bill of voted out that you had to. stop question was so here she didn't taste the piece to she's happy so i push quite all she'll. get which book i thought which is enough time and i know what you mean and i must

get your carmona me for sure i. want to go to the show through my it's your bonus for c.b.s. to give. it to mr ellsworth supporter to put them to spiro for fishing to be for you both these tickets the studio actually of course believe them or should stop them spinning. expressed. kind of financial survival john that it was all about money laundering 1st to visit this campus in the 3 different. oh good that's a good start well we have our 3 banks all set up here maybe something in your something in america something overseas in the cayman islands or do all these banks are complicit in their tough talk or say we just have to give my phone and say hey i'm ready to do some serious money laundering ok let's see how we did while we've got a nice luxury watch for max and for stacy oh beautiful jewelry and how about. luxury

on a bill again for max you know what money laundering is highly illegal. much kaiser of course. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest on the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. in the.

u.s. immigration officials have been granted permission to use fake social media accounts to monitor people seeking to enter the country blind in the face of efforts to read online networks of false profiles. and. the alternative for germany party celebrates 2 of its best local election results yet but the anti immigration euro skeptics coming 2nd in both brandenburg and saxony. also this hour a vigil commemorating the victims of the most deadly terror attack in modern russian history enters its 2nd day relatives of the victims and survivors share their painful memories of the melt.