executed on october 31st with or without a deal do we get to this point what lessons have been learned or should have been learned. cross knocking bags and i'm joined by my guess we're now here are to in paris he is chief foreign correspondent at le figaro in london we have allister donald he is an associate director at the academy of ideas and in edinburgh we cross and john white he is a political commentator and writer originally cross titles in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate let me go to john in edinburgh 1st here in my introduction i said there's a growing sense of inevitability that we will have brags that on the 31st here and my off the mark go ahead john i think with the tone of answers that you need slightly off the mark because there is one hell of a bottle taken place here and if you keep all of our own borders johnson is. trying to shoot parliament by suspend the moment for 5 weeks and having bricks it so and i

don't think it is inevitable no i think it me be more inevitable that we'll see the end or distortions very short term in government it's a general election does come to pass that his statement that you know say the commons and i'm saying is plan for elementary procedure to ascertain whether he will get as we get bracks it delivered on a technical support or what it reminded me of neglect church issues and to missed last speech and because it's an $889.00 the boos and jeers of the protests there's almost succeeded in germany and voters chosen him so this is a tory establishment in complete and utter traces unable to loot and you'll be and i think the creator says no maturity but it is beyond bricks that will remain and even be argued over it's never about this corner relic of the british state and i don't really stand on the ground of socialism or solidarity with jeremy corbyn john mcdonald at all or only get over it oh yes but let me jump in but john i mean it respect about we feel about it it's still on the agenda here let me go to where now . in paris i mean what could boris johnson get from the europeans from brussels

that to resume couldn't ok because he's saying he's still open for a deal even if the window is only a matter of days that are open go ahead in paris. no i don't think that he will get anything because for 2 reasons number one the big countries are really fed up with this british visitations that that you know like 60 years old so they're really fed up and the 2nd thing is it's too complicated to have like $27.00. countries agree on the new proposal because for foreign affairs matters you need. so technically the techniques of a european union it's too complicated so boris johnson will not get. anything more

he has been told that by. and by emmanuel in paris ok the same thing to you i mean it respective of how democratic or undemocratic the tories gambit is here it is ramming it through it but boris johnson and his associates will say but this is what people voted for and he's just doing the will of the people irrespective of well it's a bit devious but then politics and being devious are synonymous so go ahead alistair in london well yeah i think that's that's correct that he's acting on a democratic mandate and he's trying to get to a situation where the u.k. actually leaves the european union the problem just now and the problem that he's got in terms of concluding any of these arrangements by the 31st of october is that steadily and rapidly the rulebook his been torn off and terms of policy. this works there's all sorts of constitutional issues being arranged with

parliament grabbing hold of the order book and determining the order of business those legal challenges to what to his capacity to get us out so i think all bets are off just now in terms of whether he can get us out by the 31st of october and you know you could argue and indeed i would argue that those people who want to delay breaks it in fact want to do much more than that they want to actually stop that and right from the outset the mechanisms to stop or exit those are have always been posed in a kind of democratically friendly way but that mass their real intent which is really to stop or exits away other let's say with intentions i like that let's go back to admiral john i mean to resume was the worst person possible to negotiate brags because he didn't believe in it ok she wasn't she was

a remainder now we have boris johnson which with a very kind of a checkered past he's really kind of grabbed this thing and made it his own and he's going to fall on his sword one way or another when it comes to bragg's it here but least he's in braced it and it seems to me and you gentlemen in the u.k. are more familiar with it than i am but there it seems to me legally there's not much out there that can actually really stop him he's going to get this done deal or not go ahead john well their own. nation. under we don't know who actually has been released to test the legality or. should we don't know that question is yet to be determined and of course the series out you know a bit of dynamism a book oddity of girls or but also a kind of your compass that was really lacking in our culture our spirit realm it was treason was his base but given what he's trying to do in the last week it was all true to use a queen to give them to. mission to sustain adamant of fight weeks early in get

a loon you rex it that's all chiefs and i think it at that the plane get is issue shout be a against them idle think there's huge out of date for whom back to their mean i sent me it some would use of course you to me in an election to and the referendum pillar because not because i support you look because i believe this is a kitchell hugh our we watch than it is east but i think there's a sir a ship towards a new khushi a t. bricks at rather than are a little deal bracks i think that it's you tube ault or or which most people are standing in on this issue at this current moment take both course it is a huge amount of breaks it's a cheek an ecology people want to see this this old one rear the other look tired of talking about a and i take to he's of meat there's a lot of criticism for the read it she dili dell and along with 13 or these past 3 years and he's dealing good solutions with the well i or anyone let me go to pay you impairs i'm i'm sick and tired of talking about brags it is well i mean from the president position in europe i mean it this bill lay a delay a 3 months 6 months i mean what you need to cut the gordian knot ok and i did i

would suspect since boris johnson and his supporters are determined to have egg regs it executed than make at the 30 first's and be done with it i mean why i keep delaying it ok i mean uncertainty is the worse thing in politics go ahead in paris yes i think the were thing it was thing and put exam in the united kingdom is a mario throw the world forward so ole democracy but on your to a pen matter is breathless policy and british a democracies are total failure there didn't want to go do the beginning you know in the confound also of missin in the the confidence of room in $57.00 they didn't want to draw on the common market their tried to do something a competitor of the go government good to which didn't work so when they're realize it in were they are twice. the going to the common market

so are the go twice then they insisted again and again and finally the and then they needed a new refund and and then thatcher came and said oh but i don't like the rules i have to change their own and so on and so on we made you know they didn't want to utah so it's their way of eating and now they decided by referral and them to leave but even to leave it's complicated with them i mean after 3 years they don't know what they want and the house of commons does not know what it wants and so i think at least with boris johnson we have. square policy i don't believe that it is the interest of britain to leave the european union but it is britain's problem and britain's this is it but at least.

in my view is doing square and the standard ball politics nonsense let me go to alistair i reflected by what we just heard from our guest in paris interesting go ahead yeah yeah i think the thing to understand here is the shift that's taken place over the course of the last 3 years we have the referendum in 2016 the political class were overwhelmingly for remaining within the european union and the vote went against them so it came as a real shock to them the initial response from theresa may is as as been say it was one of fundamental a damage limitation in terms of how the britain withdrew from the european union she wanted to moderate the way that we withdrew so that we could retain as many links as possible and stay in sync with with our european partners the problem that she's hard and the problem that boris faces just now is that the damage limitation he's faced with is the very existence of the conservative party be. because the

people have taken against to raise amaze. poor attempt to leave and have continued to exert pressure on us to have a break from the european union so boris is forced into the situation of desperately trying to leave in the 31st of october because he has he has the challenge of keeping his own party together personally i'm not convinced that he wants a new deal breaks that i think this is a ploy for him to come back with some sort of moderated version of the withdrawal agreement which i don't think will be overly different but which he can hold up and say well this is what i've won we're going to leave so i think you know his problem is a tricky one and the situation we're in just now is that in a way the middle ground the more moderate positions fall in the party or remain as have become ever more confident that they can push towards a situation of revolt and those that one breaks that have been forced by the

remaining pressure to avoid leaving to go for ever more radical solutions which has ended up with the desire for a clean breakfast or no bricks it or however you want to phrase it ok well it's there it's very interesting here i like what you said you went with the you have the in the moderate views on both sides of the issue kind of fading away but that's what makes october 31st day or do were die in a many ways for both sides here or a gentleman after a short break we'll continue our discussion break stay with. i'm . ready ready ready ready ready

sure need to stop at the continuing to grow. i just never know very good about the idea of bringing children into the world because i didn't feel like things were in very good shape that a life was just going to be a lot of software program. but. there's no reason the more. you take things that are to me the. most is a myth something else that. everybody's scared to talk to that is certifiable is truly dependent on us addressing this issue and if we can even talk about it every chance even have a conversation of that it then. we're in trouble ready . join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to us from the

world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then. resists is a sticker from the water bottle phone in the stomach of the fish the brand is part of the coca-cola company which sells millions of bottles of soda every day the idea was that let's tell consumers there are the bad ones there the litter bugs are throwing this away industry should be blamed for all this waste the company has long promised to reuse the plastic. and i'm sure. it's difficult absolutely. demand that seems cool sets for something. on my end i need to stay clean you don't lose that special projects funding he doesn't have. oh to be on that i knew that that is the end of it for the team but for now the mountains of waste only grow higher.

welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle term and we're discussing bragg's it. let's go back to john in edinburgh ok let's work under the assumption that brags that occur as a result even if it's on october 31st or january 31st of next year it's happened outside our supposition right here there's a lot of talk here that the you know we came will drift into the us orbit because we have people like secretary of state mike pompei or just essentially drooling over the possibility of a new trade agreement with the u.k. which of course will have all those political attachments to it would they deal

with foreign policy i mean is this something that's going to happen because i think a lot of people on both sides of this issue say britain can't stand alone it's going to have to choose one side is that really an outcome that a lot of people that voted in the referendum are interested in seeing happen go ahead john you know i don't think it is and i think it was a lot of opposition. to route through new directions because of the trim administration you know the children initiation and both antipathy towards multilateral institutions and multinational blokes and if there is to deal by lead to the no biological basis no you'll see in groups that only the strong can compromise at all it equals can reach agreement does come cold and shivering out of the e.u. are there any deal that it will be vulnerable. any day tasks that trump then goes on and you see from this past week he slipped out it's not only your america's adversaries but also on its allies canada and france so ready everyone's greatly

worried about what this would intil for britain going forward clearly what is about the future of the n.h.s. a national health service which is a free health service at the point of it was introduced by the course for liberal government and is a shining example of social solidarity and action and people are worried about how this survived its trunk gets his hands on it because we know that the us corporations are see the n.h.s. as a glittering price and johnson has given guarantees bearable guarantees of the n.h.s. we see it but how can we do that for sure conditions on the cheap deal with us and if the course predicts a future will be imposed by us more than we buy and so yes i think people are rightly concerned about donald trump's. intentions towards britain in the event of a new direction i think that is feeding a lot of the opposition even on it wrecks it so to the prospect of and you gregson of course or no let me go back to paris here i mean i really appreciate how you

characterize the u.k.'s relationship with the euro you were european union for during and i want to go out after what kind of relationship what kind of constructive relationship do you think the e.u. will have with the u.k. post bragg's it i mean i'm sure that between france and britain the defense cooperation will go on because it's very important you have to realize that britain and france are the 2 only nations in europe that are ready to fight that they have phones or the ready to get killed and to kill because an army is done for that you know and we saw it everywhere we threw it in both now for instance. and other. armies in europe unfortunately use that for for for some foreign operations if you like you can rely only on

britain and france who are 2 nuclear powers who have a corporation in all fields of military including the nuclear field so i think that britain will remain a very strong partner in defense 2 fronts as far as the special relationship with america of course it will go on but you have to remember remembers something that they's a big difference between some and boris johnson that you saw in ballots boris johnson said openly that is pro free trade when of course is a protectionist and then also boyce would have to remember that british people is a proud people and they don't like when it's too open to clear that britain is the pool of the united states and when it became too poor to clear you know in you

remember this summit in some part of the book when when w. bush called blair or your boss asked him to come like a poodle to his seat you remember that scene and because of that. the labor party actually and britain fired tony blair as the prime minister because they cannot british people it is a proud people and they will not be the pull of america and you have seen that in the g. brought our prices in this grace one iranian ship that . america asked for another you know. british action against the iran. in britain well yeah but. he was my youth will not be the top of the boot and so really it's a really good example let me go to our show it's an excellent example but if i

mention it to a new trade deal between the u.k. and the united states is dictated by the united states then you're not going to how bad kind of freedom here i'm thinking about iran for example where france has the european position and the u.k. would be open to a lot of pressure by the united states to side with it when it's a very unpopular policy around the world the british the british would be reduced to having to have to follow orders and i think again that's something that's not really been discussed very much i'm on the brig's it's i don't get me wrong ok but there are a geo political implications of it go ahead alister well yeah the huge geopolitical implications i mean i think though the thing is that if we come out of the european union with anything approaching a clean break where we have the ability to make our own policies are and then to enter into negotiations then we're in a better position than the decision's been handed down from. which we're

part of but which as a people as a demo swede never really hard any possibility of contributing to the making of so there's lots of scare stories yes but i think we should take. should look at the positive side of this of being able to. interact on something approaching our as a starting point on our own terms and obviously compromises will need to follow in all of these things but ultimately if you're talking trade then we've got companies in britain and companies in america and throughout the european union that want to make products and want to sell them at a profit so there's a certain logic in that which will lead to compromises we shouldn't be afraid of that on the police. tical site i think we have we have some big decisions to be made but the important thing i think to remember is that even within the european union just it's not all harmony is good from the heart of the european union the

think different things it's a leader wants with china that germany more that's exactly where i want to go here that's exactly where i want to go john what the what are the things that brussels is so infuriated by breaks that is because it sets a precedent and always a tappy in the european home ok and i think all of us would agree with that but once one gets out it creates a model for others to think at least start thinking about it and i think that's one of the reasons why brussels was so rigid with the u.k. and they were actually quite fortunate to have such a weakling is in may so but the president will be there and it's something that the mandarins in brussels certainly have to be thinking about go ahead john. oh yeah touching on women nor scent of a grown being are a coon in x. that's a rare in europe over the last 4044 years of us involvement in european union it's been a mutation but also source completely also missed under this process because it's

stuck to a rigid of shooter lane and not making any low end for the side of the little skepticism crush it up as noted become a mainstream political current. when it is always on the margins only the savini caution government which is indeed in italy or buying or only the rise of marie le pen and give rollers and all and then of course bricks or so brussels as events nor saying all of we're going to reform its institutions or forest practices and democratize and sorting is a castell footling well we'll monitor an absolute right you don't suffer a lot of damage if you came or to leave the 6th largest economy or 1st but largest economy 34 percent of all you keep imports are from the e.u. $46.00 of our own you can export judy e.u. so that would be a sizable chunk taken and specially in germany come manufacturers who have a big stick and what happens when this breaks it process so i don't lose

a lot of prestige around the world and its and its potency lansford beyond we we know that people at macro want to see the e.u. politicized and to move towards being a super state i think it's part of the reader never largely because of the e.u.'s handling of this process and the us for the units on which we're not to touch the point that was one of the best things that britain did was not to enter you know who that ended up not that's testament to the foresight of cordon brown who was the limit chancellor 10 years ago and made that decision not to enter leaders on your contradictions that are you know one does not lead in order to begin but it's that if you have a little model that sustains your opinion that is incomplete and not ok reza let's talk about that little or no that's go back to you in paris what is the biggest lesson from this whole breakthrough it's for experience from the continent perspective go ahead. you know. i interviewed the friend secretary last he had was when he go in on the lawn of his embassy in paris and you

know what he told me at the end of of the individual finally. charles the gold was right yes they bothered us like 60 years of that i finally saw a little was right. i'm not. you know it's amazing. when you find other jobs ago was right but. no i think that. the the your opinion is not in such a bad state you like it or not you know is a really good competitor for dollar it's a very strong currency it's used by everybody is getting stronger and stronger people said 5 or 10 years ago you know will die i don't see the death of you at all you are you are telling us that. europe is not united yes there is fights among you know but not so so such big fights because i remember that the

italia in the said funds and on the on the on the sanctions was russia that they would they would they would they would vote against the sanctions and you need only one you would have been a country to say we don't want the sanctions to go on and you have no most european sanctions against russia they the talents did not do that so you still avsim kind. of unity politically i think that the your opinion union is actually in a better state than the you like it in the right reverend gentleman would buy iran out of china who is part of the one other jonathan i want to read about that i want to repeat the most important sentence of this program goal was right ok many thanks to my guest in paris london and. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here in our d.c. an experiment remember. the

big 10 years in the crossfire started 10 years and i think it's time to shake things up maybe change the branding maybe the format here is what i've been thinking about next season related episodes filmed on an island 10 experts fight it out for a trophy what do you think ok a more affordable option $25.00 text birds. one red rose another suggestion political jeopardy parody no political cookout where we will literally wrote the elite. late night show it's a rare form of these days and it's cheap all you need is an old microphone in a printed banner. to leave me with one of my goals i can do this and laughter politics ready gone wild like music. ok crosstalk is not about hype

it's about meaning 10 years of talk and still going strong. peter if you want to change something why don't we get rid of the gotye no that is too much. during the great depression which i'm old enough to remember there was most of my family were unemployed. oh that wasn't it was bed you know much worse objective listen today but there was an expectation that things were going to get better. of there was a real sense of hopefulness there isn't today today's america was shaped by the turn principles of concentration of wealth and power. reduced democracy attacks so low down engineer elections manufacture consent and other principle holds according to no i'm chomsky one set of rules for the rich opposite set of

rules for. that's what happens when you put her into the hands of a narrow sector of will switch will is dedicated to increasing power for chills just as you'd expect one of the most influential intellectuals of our time speaks about the modern civilization of america. what politicians do something. they put themselves on the line and they get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president. or somehow wanted us. to try to be for us it's like the $43.00 of them or can't be good. i'm interested always in the waters about how. this should.

millions of serbian that made me a nation the poet simply end up in the hands of terrorists in yemen and. ofter they were bought by the u.s. and its allies according to leaked documents obtained by a journalist i did he writes and a very fine if you. don't. produce prime minister suffers 2 more defeats in parliament as lawmakers reject his call for an early general election to pass a bill to prevent a no deal breaker. iran and its plans for me new limits on its nuclear activities this comes.