audited the books of the port authority and produced 2 documents which he said showed that they had been claiming for services rendered to the port authority which were not actually jews at all subsequently that very person was convicted of forging those documents and was sentenced to 6 months imprisonment he in fact absconded so isn't in prison and very recently in the last month came back to kuwait where the kuwaiti court even though he did despondent and being convicted have allowed him out on bail while his appeal against that is that the contrast to what happened to marsha couldn't be more stark somebody convicted and absconded marcia who's been under investigation this is been hanging over her head and since 2012 she's been actively pursued by the authorities since 2015 so much so that she's been on bail when she was on bail and her american green card expired she

wasn't able to go and go to the states because she only and the bail conditions are like there are accuser and yet she was then detained for 472 days since november 27th 17 until just this june while he has been treated completely different is very arbitrary it's basically a personal problem with spiraled out of control why would they want to pick on her the greater judicial system or is it the greater authority is we believe that there is. in a sense this is bizarre why is this happening i haven't even told you that the same time this you you mentioned about these the sky idea that she them besought she actually bought of a company brought civil proceedings in the kuwaiti court saying this money is jew and owing and the quaids the civil courts both at 1st instance and on appeal actually agreed and. yes this money is due and owing and should be paid that's part

of the allegations against islam though right out if it doesn't know what the left hand is doing some people wages you think what you think about the death penalty which has just been reintroduced. what do you expect that was justice from a middle east or talks in any way well 1st stop kuwait who's just stepped out has as chair of the security council this last month and who has signed all the un treaties particularly the basic rights that everyone should expect in relation to a fair trial should respect them secondly we have many many non-nationals in kuwait and indeed in the gulf states generally who are coming there to do business acting and behaving lawfully they need to have to expect and have the confidence that the judicial system will treat them fairly and not arbitrarily as this is happened in this case there was

a big conference here about our british investments and there was a general ease about what was happening to foreign investors in the gulf in relation to the criminalize ation of what is essentially commercial disputes and essentially fights between commercial companies for lucrative gulf contracts and we believe that this is that marsh if you like is collateral damage in the wider by every between local firms for lucrative gulf contracts but i want to get on to international economic pressure in a 2nd it's quite noisy here very busy law firm it is i want to ask 1st of all you've filed a petition of complaint to the u.n. working group on over to detention would you expect from the working group well we found that about a month ago now kuwait has 6 weeks to respond so were eagerly awaiting their response to see how they justify this bizarre. behavior from some of their courts.

and then following that kuwait has time to respond and then they are working group will then consider what has happened and give their opinion as to whether in fact this is a case of arbitrary detention or not we confidently expect that an impartial body like that will see the difficulties in justifying this particular aspect and to come up with that is it partly depends of course on the response from kuwait because as i said they have 6 weeks they could ask for another month depends how big that long that response is so we're not talking about imminently that we will we will wait and see at the same time we've also engaged with another procedure the u.n. which is called the special report on the independence of judges and prosecutors and that is just his role isn't just to look at the independence of judges it's also to look at the. standard of behavior and in this case for example there was an

explicit r. thing that happened just the other week because i mention that marcia has not been able to push her case and she has a very good. support from including the former f.b.i. head who has looked at the evidence against and we've produced a report when he produced that reports to the court the judge came out with the extraordinary question of him which was who played you in the channel 4 series homeland i was in the kuwaiti court that was in the kuwaiti court because it was 4 of. louis freeh ok but what is the point of the u.n. arbitration working committee because as you know well they've criticized british authorities this came i think even before the un special rapporteur on torture accused the british government of involving torture julian a search for under wiki leaks if the british authorities don't appear to much about findings from a. but you've done sion when it comes to the most famous publisher in the world

what do you begin to think about your globes if you were them well the great government thing of course you know the u.n. working groups the un special rapporteur don't have any teeth i mean they don't have any troops to send in they don't have a police force to send in however they do have. opinion false and underweight of international condemnation behind that it's also the fact that as you may or may not be aware that under the u.n. human rights council there are 4 year leave reviews of countries compliance with human rights standards and kuwait is coming up in january and certainly we intend to make sure that this issue about the trial process and how there seems to be arbitrary justice a different sets of rules for one group of people from another and the dangers for international business pair persons coming to kuwait to carry out business

invest. in the country that should be something that we intend hope will be raised very strongly and kuwait would have to answer for that in the in the court of the united nations in the court of public opinion from you being human rights lawyer for you lara logan as a whole long i mean isn't this the problem with human rights when the lead rich russian national gets into problems in the middle eastern country. they had protections grenades against the we doomed community the rewards torture before death sentences. why is it only in our look we're not saying that marsh is the only person who may have suffered here in kuwait overseas that would be ridiculous but you know 1st of all mushed isn't exactly a huge elite. rich russian she is a businesswoman who has made her way in the world she has become very

prominent in kuwait partly because so few. women hold her sort of position but she made that position herself she came to kuwait as a foreign national and because of her work and her skills. put herself in that position secondly of course there are other human rights violations that we can we can all see around the world but one of the question surely is human rights is for everyone and rich or poor to have your liberty arbitrarily taken away from you. should not be done it out to process and a proper system of law you mentioned the former head of the f.b.i. louis freeh people have remarked on the very high profile defenders of the liberty of bush. river neil bush the son of george or walker bush. the don't trump has been briefed before me

a lawyer and the russian foreign minister sergei lavrov why do you think this case is attracting such high profile support because i think as we know people are concerned about the ability of international trade to operate in the in the right manner and this question about can business people who are going about their lawful business complying with the laws of the state can they be sure that if there is some sort of dispute it won't be turned against them in a way that leads to what happened to marsha $472.00 days in a kuwaiti prison confined in a room with 6 other women which was actually a cell phone to deprive in prison she was quite described as the russian woman in fact in court in some of the earlier hearings the judge described as the russian

woman this does not show. an equality before the law and just finally we're in the same building as the cherie blair foundation what is it given controversial surname you have what is the validation and what does it do around the world that the shrimp. foundation to it's 10 years old now in those 10 years we've reached a 150000 women in lower middle income countries and providing them with trading mentoring networks and. use of technology to grow and expand their small medium and growing businesses will mean taking control of their future and helping them to realize their dreams. thank you thank you after the break advisor to prince charles jonathon porritt on his name checking by mark roylance when he put the world shakespeare company over be all of them all coming up with what you have going underground.

for the big pain years since cross-talk started 10 years i think it's time to shake things up maybe change the branding maybe the format here is what i've been thinking about next season related episodes filmed on an island 10 experts fight it out for a profit what do you think ok a more affordable option $25.00 text for. one red rose another suggestion political jeopardy parody no political cookout where we will literally wrote the elites. late night show it's a rare format these days are going to cheat on him it is an old microphone in a printed banner but to leave me with i guess i can do this campbell after politics gone wild like music. ok crosstalk is not about

hype it's about meaning 10 years of talk and still going strong. peter if you want to change something why don't we get rid of. gotye you know that is too much. i'm. ready ready ready ready ready sure to stop at the continuing to grow. i just never know very good about the idea of bringing children into the world because i didn't feel like things were in very good shape that a life was just going to be a lot of software program. there's no reason the more. you take

things that are to me the. movie is a myth something else that we need to get rid of to everybody's scared to talk about it survival is really dependent on us addressing this issue and if we can even talk about it every chance i have a conversation of that is that. ready during the great depression which mr remember that was most of the family were working. and it wasn't it was bed you know much worse objectively day but there was an expectation that things were going to get better. and there was a real sense of hopefulness there isn't today today's america where shape my the 10 principles of concentration of wealth and power. reduced democracy

attack solidarity engineer elections manufacture consent and other principles according to no on. one set of rules for the rich officer said. that's what happens when you put power. the truth will which will is dedicated to increasing power for 2 of just as you'd expect one of the most influential intellectuals of our time speaks about the modern civilization of america. welcome back to the u.n. in geneva is today presented with a report into british racism exacerbated by conservative and liberal democrat politicians after the 28 western economic crisis un special rapporteur and yet you may have even suggested that the u.k. government should not be surprised by allegations of racism presumably she was

referring to outgoing prime minister to raise a may infamous for hostile environments and deportation advertisement vans but will things get better here because may has self said that boris johnson uses the wrong words when it comes to discrimination it's very clear that the language that boris johnson used to describe people's appearance has calls defense it's not language i would have used i think it's wrong to use that language boris of course could be prime minister in june of weeks or it could be this man the defacto former boss of the u.k. is universal health care system when doctors went out on strike here he is questioning the right of foreigners to get free health care is it right that someone can come from overseas pops a toast coming from america or japan and actually pay nothing towards the health care some might argue it is especially if it deterred a tourist with a contagious disease from seeking medical help while visiting britain but have both contenders to be prime minister by august have anything in common it is their interest in say fracking jeremy hunt was in slovenia lobbying for fracking in

february and johnson has argued that households should have a commercial interest in fracking that's not something that would be supported by brian of green politics in britain for decades joining me now is the chancellor of kill university an environmental campaigner jonathon porritt thanks so much older for coming on. so let's go straight there ma graylands one of britain's greatest actors name checking you directly as one of the reasons he has decided to sever ties with the royal shakespeare company because of its sponsorship by b.p. . to be fair this is. all mark's decision really and he asked me what i felt about it knowing that i have over the years done some work with oil and gas companies including b.p. and shell and had to come to a judgment for myself about the degree to which they are serious now about thriving in a low carbon world as it were without further investments in oil and gas so we talked about that at length and i feel very strongly that when someone like mark feels

a moral imperative that is wrong for a company like b.p. to be spending some of its what he would call ill gotten gains on supporting young people through the assisted ticket scheme you have to we have to listen to him he's thought about this really carefully it's a very deep moral decisions but i mean he quoted you as saying that b.p. has downplayed its role in causing the climate emergency and you just said you advise b.p. were they downplay it back then or the time that i was working with b.p. was when lord brown was chief exec has been on this show i should say good and there was a whole length of time for 5 years where b.p. was really serious about trying to think its way out of being a pure oil and gas company becoming what john brown described as an integrated

energy company in fact he would quite often say we're not an oil and gas company we're going to be an integrated energy company dr brown was very driven in his determination to change b.p. around it didn't happen and once they'd lost that opportunity then so this is sort of 2000 at the time that he was chief exec once that happened then they reverted to a much more traditional conventional row which is we have to keep rolling out the investments in new and gas every year to replace the stuff we bring out of the ground every year and they've never they've never got back seriously into now. politically. is against what you're saying bob dudley the current american c.e.o. says b.p. continues to make bold changes continues to make bold changes across the group as part of a commitment to advancing a low carbon future you know this is getting a bit outrageous that these companies will still talk about the fact we're going to be burning huge amounts of oil and gas through 220402050 etc etc and the next

moment they'll turn around and say we're being really serious now about our economy consistent with the climate goals of the bears agreement is what they say but but you have to look at the pattern of investment the amount of money they're spending on renewable energy now in comparison to the amount of money they're putting into brand new oil and gas projects and suffer a $1000000000.00 after 1000000000 on renewables $16000000000.00 on oil and gas and that's the pattern that goes on year after year after year and they have to get smart about this before their investors get smart about it because once the investors say we're not going to put any more money into projects that are never going to be able to deliver the revenues for us as investors given the world has to decarbonise. during that time the investor is eventually going to say to bob dudley and his board you've got this wrong you're calling this wrong there's no way around

this of course the investors can be politicians regulations actually mean that not diversifying into renewables is still profitable not diversity firing into really rules is like signing your own death warrant we have to have massive new investments in renewables every year i mean at the moment investments in renewable is run at about about $300000000000.00 a year globally which isn't bad it's quite a lot of money going into it as you can imagine but we need somewhere between $800000000000.00 and a. trillion dollars of new investment in renewables every year so politicians are getting smarter about this to be fair a middling performance on this world leader on offshore wind power put a lot of resource and thinking into that and that's the one area where we're still a world leader but every country in the world now is going to have to step up the

speed and the depth of the investment it makes in renewables when you mention armageddon there just stepping back from this when you were talking with people at shell and people at b.p. some people said this is the 1st generation of people in history that of. trying to argue for something that their own children may be affected by against the interests of their own children i'm talking about ruling elite india you make of what do you make of that i presume you had conversations with people who said what you're saying is not well to pick a word sustainable financially. it was always the most fascinating moment whenever we were doing this in gauge work with the people show we did a lot of advisory work as well and after the end of the formal process as it were and we were having a drink or dinner or whatever it would be. time after time they would say i'm really more worried about this than you can imagine because my kids are on my back

already they're telling me this is something that we have to sort out in this company now that was 1015 years ago you can imagine what it's like now with the extinction rebellion with the school strikes with gratitude with david attenborough out there saying to everybody that this is now a challenge to the very nature of our civilization you can imagine what the kids of these chief execs are like around the dinner table with their parents right now and i tell you something that's as influential a way of getting to them as practically anything else. ok but if. you're a struggling playwright struggling artist struggling portrayed just. the national portrait gallery the royal opera house the british museum they all take money from b.p. should people be boycotting these institutions and surely there are people at all these organizations that understand what you do about the environment or decided. they have to get b.p. money to keep going they don't have to there's been

a understandable reason why they have come to rely on big sponsors like b.p. this isn't a general campaign against corporate sponsorship for the arts this is a very specific story about companies like b.p. and shell and it is important to make that case because there's no reason at all why the r.s.c. shouldn't find another sponsor for this is to take it scheme it's just that his mother pointed out very compellingly he just said look you're providing a benefit for these kids but at the same time you're denying. that the business that you're in is going to destroy their future well they've obviously have their own reasons for making these decisions but aside from i mean we have to understand obviously consumer boy courts are not going to win this as nobel laureate economist stiglitz calls it 3rd world war for the environment is that any of us want to change or part of the picture any of you is watching them what can they watch out as consumers watch as greenwashing by big corporate multinationals again

i you know we do a lot of work with businesses a lot of businesses are doing a ton of stuff now this is not all green wash the kind of position how do they tell the difference what that is a good question but when you're in the business of oil and gas and you say that don't worry the future is safe in our hands you know you're dealing with a really deep greenwash that so bob dudley is a green washer in chief most people have got a pretty canny instinct for the difference between stuff that is real and he's making a difference not as big a difference as we need but a difference and the stuff that they know is just a marketing scam so you support it extinction rebellion when they targeted 5 fossil fuel companies and quarters in london b b saudi aramco reps will you support that because you could see what elites arguably thought of this kind of thing mark field of or and former foreign minister suspended. for i don't know what you thought of how he treated the extinction rebellion climate change protester at the mansion

house when johnson philip hammond was giving his speech so i was a man at a dinner in mansion i was accusing the extinction rebellion people of being elite there's a certain irony that and the way he behaved i think is widely accepted to have been completely wrong i can see why he was really cross because. you know nobody likes. a protester reminding you very very compellingly that there are a different way of looking there are different ways of looking at this world and now we have to decouple the no one likes that when you're sunk deep in the middle of a consensus about the usefulness of fossil fuels but his behavior was unacceptable well the un special rapporteur for the boston short shrift from the government when he was talking about poverty and austerity policies by this government he's now saying that the environmental crisis or catastrophe. will

claim under $20000000.00 of the world's poorest they will be driven into poverty by 2030 elites in this society are taking that seriously. and you take it seriously i take all that very seriously indeed in this all goes back to the official scientific reports from the government's advisory body from the intergovernmental panel on climate change and those reports become more and more outspoken in telling us what will happen if we allow the gases to build up in the atmosphere and the temperature gets warmer and warmer they are very clear that we're heading into some very difficult and dark times so when you hear a projection like that which is based on the inevitability of increased droughts increased disruption more people refugee as refugees increasing sea levels you can't help but acknowledge that the poorest of the poor around the world are going to be in the frame 1st they will be hit 1st and hard as you look at puerto rico with the hurrican there devastating it will take them 5 to 10 years to recover from

that so this isn't this isn't some crazy future president trump said puerto rico would recover i'm going to ask about trump because i live here for this year the military have a big part of it for a change the u.s. military apparently is the biggest polluter it has polluted more than $100.00 combined states actual countries do you think anything will can seriously be done about the u.s. . military quite a while half from the national portrait gallery and there is an interesting story to be told here the carbon footprint of the u.s. military so you look at everything all the equipment and sounds of it is absolutely huge it's enormous and there's no turning away from that. the probably the only high level voice in donald trump's ear at the moment saying you've got to take this climate change story seriously because this is as big a threat to national security in the u.s.

as anything else going on in china or russia anywhere else and that's because it'll be so disruptive they'll be millions of people on the move will lose access to markets it'll just be a mess and in a mess extremists terrorists flourish it's much harder to manage things like migration in a proper way so the pentagon has been one of the most thoughtful sources of advice to the u.s. president past and present. of any u.s. agency going back now 15 years. both of you enjoyed that episode of going underground will continue showing your favorite episodes from this season of joy back for a brand new season on wednesday the 11th of september until then keep it out via social media and don't forget our you tube channel these. you know world big partisan movies. and conspiracy it's time to wake up

to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the bath shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now we're watching closely watching the hawks.

serbian made weapons are allegedly in the hands of terrorists in yemen and syria after being bought by the u.s. and its allies that is according to documents obtained by. the british prime minister suffers more defeats. for an early general election and pass a bill to prevent a no deal breaker. and iran announces plans to accelerate its uranium enrichment activities raising the pressure on your.