hello and welcome to worlds apart travel has long fascinated human imagination but until recently it's been the privilege of a selected few the growth of the global middle class has turned into reason into a major economic currently responsible for roughly 10 percent of both global g.d.p. total employment with over a 1000000000 people already traversing the world each. fridge magnets is such growth sustainable while to discuss that i'm now joined by paul in the

secretary-general of the world tourism organization secretary-general it's good to talk to you thank you very much for your time thank you for your interest in the. first therefore will be important for all of us for tourism so the question of its general assembly what expecting more than 100 different. presented their ministers was ministers from 157 countries and this is one of the most important event for all of us and. we have it in russia you are a relatively new to this job i mean about a year and a half as far as i know and you came to the litter ship of this organization at a very interesting time on the one hand the global tourism industry is growing faster than ever before but on the other hand there are increasing concerns over and not only sustainability of that growth but also whether or not it's it may be damaging for the world as a whole. it is more still better as you mentioned that started last generation and

that is my 2nd term 2nd year and the. way it has a lot of challengers of course sustainable growth but we're working with each member states because the states are different the challenges are different so for that. proposal we had several but interesting meetings one of them i remember we had i mean a meeting for mayors from all over the world because idea was to collect and to invite them in to discuss with people who are daily in the world in the in the problematic issues as you mention and there are some problematic issues regarding and because we are growing very fast towards me for those. in europe especially and the idea was to talk with the people who knows and who. had some kind of decisions on how to manage it and again the most important thing we mentioned many many times it's management the coming back to the question to ask is the more still better

because i mean given last year's number is international tourism there i was grew 6 percent to 1400000000 that's almost 20 percent of the global population and it's clear that somebody travels a lot somebody doesn't travel at all but how far do you think it could go well expectation is that the growth will continue because of a. report regarding and according to the world economy growth also much eclipse goes to tourism implosion too has its effect immediately directly and we're expecting the next year next the next 23 years again it's better or not i think that it's good because lots of opportunity was a possibility to rest for employment it's one of the price to useful instrument to create new jobs and our main objective is to create new jobs worldwide and there's still

a little spaces and for that reason we're going to in those. rural tourism year for next year to expand and to support new destination rural part of the world and all the weather and stocks that will be raised outside of capitals and i would say the big cities and this is another kind of motivation and management so we want to. decentralize tourist flows from the big city slim to every cardless of the north whether those flows go to big cities or rural areas they leave enormous environmental impact tourism industry is now bigger and bigger polluter than let's say the construction industry if it continues to grow at the current rate can you reassure that any environmental agreement rather this paris climate deal or whatever can be fulfilled how can you do that when you house. such as the climate change. paris declaration was made many years ago but no specially the day after

tomorrow we're going to issue a 1st. climate change impact on tourism and. a declaration it's not the clinician's report which will work more than 2 years and with a very specific and very interesting research is regarding what is the impact of climate change on essential and what is the impact of tourism climate change i think it's very interesting and i would have a probe that would have. very detailed. research and i'm sure that we would use it on the ground and on the field with the member states and to see the recommendations to see the so lucia's of this program but the key issues and again to support and to see these grow can be managed but secular in general if you support the growth in john in general that means that the environmental impact is going to be more substantial that it is now i mean one can now travel from the u.k. to france for 20 pounds if you bring that kind of cheap mobility to africa if you

bring that kind of trip my ability to south america how could the planet sustain that. regarding go. south america again there is a huge opportunity to create new jobs and new places a new destination and when we're talking about sustainable growth this is the brother sustainable development it's not only to grow the number of tourists this is the abilities itself in the world which is to maintain balance between rome and to be between culture and. conservation again. nature and conservation of cultural heritage this is our role in this is to support countries how to manage and ho to see to give up their population so to do it. a few years ago there was a. similar city. with the production people used to be proud that that their food comes from all over the world but now you have a growing movement of. people around the globe trying to localize food production

specifically to minimize environmental impact do you think the same thing could ever happen to tourism when people would actually decide that i would rather travel laclede go across the globe and leave a normas amount of air exhaust just to get some sunlight and i will lead one more thing that goes through me is really important part of tourism to the it's. growing food production is growing to tourism flows in the of course the impact for that reason we started last year and will continue next 2 or 3 years to support and to help. hold tooling better and hope to have innovate to verse alou shows for food production in total link it with tortillas and when i was last here 1st british an investor i'm into has been the idea as to the best start ups and best projects to manage better the need to manage better. to show the program here you were

mentioned well but my question was not so much about the just try to me my question was about taking a decision to go across the globe and leave an impact that for the most part these unaccounted for because me going to value this hasn't and in fact not only on people in venice but also on people in the caribbean for feeling the effects of the climate change in terms of the hairy canes and nobody's. giving or compensating down for that is that something is something that the global tourism industry could address because from my understanding it's very good at calculating the profits but it's not very good at calculating and compensating for the impact once you are creating new your toes or new cities or maybe destinations immediately and you need to support and help. i recall to report another very interesting project regarding that issue we were going to launch knowing as we went to lincoln

to create platform it's all over the construction to support all for most and those individuals who have there are small and medium enterprises especially in our go. production to help them to link with the big companies with big chains and special interests and to help them to sell their. productions and. all over the world and with this plot that we are going to support and promote again small families and small and supreme nurse now from what i know at a number of large tourism destinations are now becoming victims of that own success people in van is in barcelona in dubrovnik are no longer the have decided about tourists and many of them complain that these you know this mass tourism in particular house is is changing the character of the neighborhood it's making their own lives worse rather than better it's changing the quality of their lives do you

sympathize with those kind of complaints from our headquarters located in madrid and we have a very close touch with barcelona mother again are there more cities in spain with which population of which it was some programs and again we're meeting with the mayors who was recording off that situation and of course we are supportive and we're looking into ways how to manage these inflows and behold to make more sustainable growth through. sometimes it's in some cases it's not so easy but we want to use it again you know variation in. the nations like persona venison dubrovnik and disappointing and now we pull was not expecting the growth growth will slow for us then so weak that but again always there is a decision and. it's a matter of management and i'm hoping we'll see that all different countries and cities. have some local style of management for example for barcelona.

directly to the mayor she was clean bold and she knows that she want to stop the tourism there this was her message in case of the destination is starting to promote the close this nation to the city and to experience again from the central part of the city so. to create new this nation to promote new activities culturally. all of them out again different but many jubelin. who are very close with them and working there were discussing we will have another meeting to discuss in more detail significant general the you asked recently said that or threatened to advantage to its least of endangered cultural sites don't you think that it's perhaps a little bit too had to discuss things why has this iteration been allowed to

progress to a point when you have i made sure your own cultural body to threaten such an action i mean isn't it a little in the bay for disaster it's already too late maybe no one expected this kind of. growth again back to. where we are located spending. right 23 years ago 50000000 tourists and the last day it was 80 no one expected expected such. growth of inflows so again i ask you as a hog of the top u.n. tourism body how would you describe or define a conscientious tourist is it somebody who travels long distances or on the contrary somebody tries to travel as little as possible is it somebody who spans and consumes a lot or somebody who on the contrary is very conscious about spending and the environmental and social impact that he or she would have a different kind of consumers let's say an interest to the question was that how we

can differentiate and lose on chances are asacol turns because even at this conference you talk a lot about ethics but what it would never. it's difficult to him is to respect 1st of all the environment respect the culture of respect the. hosting countries where he's going to and of course it's not that it's not the case over the number of. people how many countries they visited. or less or more but we we see that the number of tourists are growing we have more than 1400000000 resistors last year and. so you still see growth as a good thing. ultimately because that's a that's a very important question and many people would say that growth and consumerism in terms ms a detrimental thing growth is a good thing but sustainable growth is management it's really important that

education is really important quality of service is really very important there are many many. things which. we need to improve improve and we need to support that it's not only growth that's what i mentioned that it's not only about growth it's a both education it's a boat you know vision again it's about many many components which we need to improve and we need to support of course to diverse and to see on the world there are lots of opportunities and we are supporting this opportunities and especially in africa and continue to have a lot of space tools to support and to promote tourism and we have a very concrete and interesting plan an agenda with africa ministers to. support to growth to just because again i will be old a bit to create new jobs for africa clinton i think we're talking about the region it's crucial tool create new jobs and we are economy is that the growth of

flows of tourists will create new jobs you know what to do we need to create. the growth of tourism we need connectivity with me. more committed to do we need more investments more investments in infrastructure and security visas and these are companies which we need to improve with them and again africa it's going to end with $54.00 different countries and all of them have a different stage of development so there is another space to promote and to support them branding promotion of the sort and other issues for the continent to support what secretary general we have to take a very short break now but back in just a few moments statement. what

politicians do. put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president. want. to be this is what the 43 more people. interested always in the water. welcome back to worlds apart without putting the question really secretary-general of the world tourism organization secretary general i heard you say in one

interview i think a year ago that in a decade maybe in 2 decades people will forget what we are still sure about that because from my perspective governments seem to be becoming more restrictive if about who comes and who goes population for all over the world need 20 percent bliss. as when it was a took 10 years that is ago 10 years ago so we're working still individually with all member states and countries to support novis of course and we understand what it will that there are different issues and different internal over 40 policies for each country and but again. for coasties to decrease the number of. to facilitate the traveller's them to make their. life and troops more comfortable

there are a number of countries who are using the tourism outflows as a political leverage i think russia would be one example china would be another you can see a correlation between the number of tourists visiting certain countries and political relations with those countries what do you think about this because i was informed russia is going to open in 2 to give reason for the regime more than. $100.00 countries say it was going so the arabia to do it through the next 2 it is not always about. these say you know you come from a regional or from georgia and you know that russia for example introduced. a freeze on direct air travel in russia and georgia that has a direct. the impact on the on the number of russian people traveling to georgia. do you take that as a as a political as a use of tourism as a political tool or do you see different. messages all those 2 don't mix politics.

between them because. i think that sometimes and in many cases these politico looking dynamic the decreasing. facilitation the very optimistic and we think that this group and this possibility will be in many countries and again it will affect them to respect number of visitors let me ask you one india to be countries citizens of these countries they still have. and many countries they don't have by the throat facilitation with with training in india and there was a promoting to be to be more flexible than to open for example the so somebody which is really for. 2 years ago they announced one reason for all or training is. the number of trainers or is there an increased china has from what i know the

world's largest congregation of tourists that's a very big force that the could also be a very big resource and every time china has somewhat difficult political relationship with a country you can see the number of tourists drop for example it was with south korea recently taiwan in the united states the number of chinese tourists is now decreasing is that something that happens naturally or you suspect some political interplay there not truly happened if there is a natural disaster but if something is happening between countries politically of course it's politico issue again before the natural disasters also we have in many cases when the number appears does that decreasing. security issues it's another important thing we saw what happened in egypt in tunisia 56 years ago syria we were there was a soviet so we really collapsed the number of tourists

decreased more than 50 percent but you know we have absolutely big change and we're very happy to see that the situation is becoming in 2010 which was one of the best year for this country's. small let's move these issues are playing a lot of political. conflicts will natural disasters and security issues this there are 3 factors which affect a lot of interest flows from one country to another i want to ask you one more question oh perhaps 2 more question about russia and georgia but you know because i think it's a very interesting case for the industry and the reason it interests me is because i think it raises a question of what where hospitality begins and where the ends and if you receive where there are fewer foreign visitors from one country how derisive for disrespectful you can afford to be towards that particular country what's your answer to that i i was the minister of economy in tourism in georgia and starting

from that day in this limit it was really difficult for me because it was just 20092010 the year after general conflict starting from day 2 till tomorrow i don't remember when one tourist from russia who was. and who felt himself. in the love them and would have and these are facts and these are numbers that number of russian visitors increasing every year. increasing numbers more than from 5 to 10 percent of course if tomorrow we don't have it naturally the number of visitors will decrease why because according to the tourist needs it. fastest way no one will come to the flying to we stumble on from what we're hearing a lot of people do why they are in the us there is a lot of them because where we have many. traditional cultural links with all due

respect mr berger is also getting a lot of benefit from russian tourists is it ok for the droege and society to have those and to russia not just on to kremlin but and to russian rallies in the center of the leases sparked by nothing i mean the recent war horse was totally unprovoked it was over a deputy obscure deputy sitting in the wrong place in parliament in the grand scheme of things this is nothing in the other it provoked such a major reaction doesn't change your definition of sustainability when you can lose a 3rd of your tourist over something like that how you build a sustainability after that sure that there were some mistakes there were in the hopes that this program will desoto i don't know where and when but i hope and really be happy if tomorrow it will again direct flights and more the more tourists will coming george and more tourists will come in russia as well and tourism is one

of the best instruments for peace. knowing the government of georgia and russian politicians but i hope that. only dialogue and only. collaborative. saw this problem and i hope that again the flights will be back do you think these situation this whole situation offers any lessons for your other member states in what to do hope perhaps what not to do when it comes to tourism because again we have never or well i may be mistaken that we have never seen something like that because i think we had a similar situation between russia and turkey if you years ago. there were political instability of political differences. direct flights. suspend that is it something that you think countries may. start doing more and more if political or geopolitical situation it's one of the best i think it's not the best way of

protest and it's not the best way to express your views very painful i mean it seems to me if you have this sense to learn again. i'm sure that it will be became in the starting position and don't mix to tourists with. with politics but politics and trade a mixed all the time how is tourism this is it's another issue but tourism i think it's more important to close people and to to have more more closer relationship between people it's effect towards more than trade or other issues another interesting example of this interplay between politics and tourism is the united states and i know that their formal you know the member of your organization yes but i wonder if you are watching what's happening there in tourism wise because there are a lot of conflicting information about how president trump stands on migration is that factoring or not affecting the tourism industry regarding last year was so that the decrease of. the rebels and united states was it was

decreasing 2 percent which is not so big big number there still number one receiving tourists from over the world and. presence french polish. effect on the tourist bit as well so the last 2 years i mean we don't have a big change just because people still are going to the united states we are very happy and. on earth to see that the united states is becoming again member organization and decided now. was to need a strong partner with us and the united states is number one today into respect to many many things in other patients again in innovation. investments one of the biggest ever the funds and companies from the united states and we want. more why do you in the united states is showing interest in your organization at the

time when they're withdrawing from many other un bodies what is so special about this is an interesting question because they believe in tourism and they see the opportunities and that's why i'm sure that for them it's it's interesting to to to know more and will be closer with the $158.00 member states and to support the organization which is doing i'm seeing quite interesting projects something else one of the concerns that the years tourism industry repeatedly voice is it is labor shortage in particular when it comes to bringing in seasonal labor sometimes undocumented labor and having to pay more to the locals and i think this is $11.00 of those examples one of the interests of the industry and the interest of the state at least defined by the current administration. do not coincide when you have such a conflict of interest which side are you on on the side of the administration which wants 3 decrease the number of seasonal workers or on the side of the tourism industry which wants to increase that who are more in line with the industry of

course we're not looking. for some internal. political decisions and always will have some. golden palace between their policies and those who they were recommendations the support of course the industry to create again the drops this is our fearless over the top number one priority for us is to create new jobs says in the low notes is a know all additional. village you know this you know. person is getting something from the tourist this is what we're looking for support while secretary general we have to leave it there thank you very much for being with us today thing. our viewers can keep the conversation going in our social media pages and hope to see you again same place same time here on the part.

of. most of the 1920 s. and you know there were no laws really on wall street and the abuses were huge and the market won. and people began to look at the stock market as the proxy for the economy people are getting wealthy because their stocks are going up and they did they quit their jobs they just become speculators and so this is what happens now people are saying look the economy the real economy is terrible no jobs they've been shipped overseas and i'm nothing left of day trading and the market goes up therefore i'm being productive but it's.

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