each year in search of sandbags and fridge magnets is such growth sustainable well to discuss that i'm now joined by political shrilly secretary-general of the world tourism organization secretary general it's good to talk to you thank you very much for your time thank you for your interest in the. first day forward an important event for all of us. especially its general assembly but expecting more than 100 different. presented this ministers was ministers from 157 countries and this is one of the most important event for all of us and we see here we have it in russia you are a relatively new to this job i mean about a year and a half as far as i know and you came to the litter ship of this organization at a very interesting time on the one hand the global tourism industry is growing faster than ever before but on the other hand there are increasing concerns over and not only sustainability of that growth but also whether or not it's it may be

damaging for the world as a whole is more still better as you mentioned they started last generally it's my 2nd term 2nd year and. way more ahead a lot of challenges of course sustainable growth but we're working with each member states because the states are different the challenges are different so for that. proposal we had several very interesting meetings one of them i remember we had been meeting for mayors from all over the world because our idea was to collect and to invite them in to discuss with people who are daily in the world in the in the problematic issues as you mention and there are some problematic issues regarding because we are growing very fast. towards me for those. in europe especially in the idea was to talk with the people who knows and who. had some kind of decisions on how to manage it and again the most important thing we're mentioning many many

times it's management the coming back to the question to ask is the more still better because i mean given last year's number is international tourism there i was grew 6 percent to 1400000000 that's almost 20 percent of the global population and it's clear that somebody travels a lot somebody doesn't travel at all but how far do you think it could go expect that the growth will continue because of a. report regarding and according to the world economy growth of the month eclipse goes to tourism implosion too has its effect immediately directly and we're expecting the next receiver next the next 23 years again it's better or not i think that it's good because lots of opportunity was a possibility to rest for employment is one of the. useful instrument to create new jobs or our main objective is to create new jobs worldwide

and there's still a little space isn't for that reason we're going to in those. rural tourism year for next year to expand and to support new destinations rural part of the world and all the weather and stocks there will be raised outside of capitals and i would say the big cities and this is another kind of motivation and management so we want to . decentralize tourist flows from the big city slim to every cardless of the north whether those flows go to big cities or rural areas they leave enormous environmental impact tourism industry is now bigger and bigger polluter than let's say the construction industry if it continues to grow at the current rate can you be sure that any environmental agreement rather this paris climate deal or whatever can be fulfilled how can you do that when you house. such a climate change. paris declaration was made many years ago but no specially

the day after tomorrow we're going to issue a 1st. climate change impact on tourism and the declaration and it's not the clinician's report which we work more than 2 years and with a very specific and very interesting research is regarding what is the impact of climate change into an essential and what is the impact of tourism climate change i think it's very interesting and i would have a probe that would have. very detailed. research and i'm sure that we would use it on the ground and on the field with the member states and to see the recommendations to see the solutions of this program but the key issues and again to support and to see these grow can be managed but the secretary general if you support the growth in john in general that means that the environmental impact is going to be more substantial that it is now i mean one can meld travel from the u.k.

to france for 20 pounds if you bring that kind of cheap in ability to africa if you bring that kind of shipping ability to south america how could the planet sustain that. regarding go. south america again there is a huge opportunity to create new jobs and new places a new destination and when we're talking about sustainable growth this is the brother sustainable development it's not only to grow the number of tourists this is the abilities itself in the world which is to maintain balance between rome and to be between culture and. conservation again. nature and conservation of cultural heritage this is a we're all in this is to support countries how to manage and hope to see to give up their population so to do it. a few years ago there was a. similar situation of with the production people used to be proud that that their food comes from all over the world but now you have

a growing movement of. people around the globe trying to localize food production specifically to minimize environmental impact do you think the same think would ever happen to tourism when people would actually decide that i would rather travel laclede them go across the globe and leave a normas amount of air exhaust just to get some sunlight the. one most thing that goes through me is really important part of tourism to the it's. a growing part of the food production is growing to tourism flows in the of course the impact for that reason we started last year and will continue next 2 or 3 years to support and to help. hold tooling better and hope to have innovate to burst solutions for food production and total link it with tories and when i was last to your 1st british an investor i'm into has been the idea as to the best start ups

and best projects to manage better the need to manage better. to show the probity or you were mentioned well but my question was not so much of august told me my question was about taking a decision to go across the globe and leave an impact that for the most part these unaccounted for because me going to value this hasn't and in fact not only own people in venice but also on people in the caribbean for feeling the effects of the climate change in terms of the hair again and nobody's. giving or compensating down for that is that something is something that the global tourism industry could address because from my understanding it's very good at calculating the profits but it's not very good at calculating and compensating for the impact once you are creating new your toes or new cities or maybe destinations immediately and you need to support and help. i recall to report another very interesting

project regarding that issue we were going to launch knowing as we went to lincoln to create platform it's all over the construction to support all for most and those individuals who have there are small and medium enterprises especially in our go. production to help them to link with the companies with big chains and special interest sector and to help them to sell their. productions and. to put all the world up with this plot that we are going to support and promote again small families and small and supreme nurse now from what i know at a number of large tourism destinations are now becoming victims of their own success people and that is in barcelona in dubrovnik are no longer the have decided about tourists and many of them complain that this you know this mass tourism in particular house is is changing the character of the neighborhood it's making their

own lives worse rather than better it's changing the quality of their lives do you sympathize with those kind of complaints our headquarters located in madrid and were very close touch with barcelona mother their grandmother more. in spain with which population of which it was some programs and again there were meeting with the mayors was recording off that situation and of course we are supportive and we're looking into ways how to manage these inflows and behold to make more sustainable growth through. sometimes it's in some cases it's not so easy but we want to use it again you know variation in. the nations like persona venison dubrovnik and most disappointing now we pool was not expecting the growth growth was so for us then so that but again always there is a decision and. it's a matter of management and i'm hoping to see that all different countries and

cities. that have some local style of management for example place for barcelona. directly to the mayor she was clean bold and she knows that you she want to stop the tourism there this was her message in case of the destination is starting to promote the close this nation to the city and to experience again from the central part of the city so. to create new this nation to promote new activities culturally through it is. all of them are again different but many jubelin. who are very close with them and they were working they were discussing we will have another meeting to discuss in more detail so in the general the you asked recently said that or threaten to advantage to you it's least of endangered cultural sites don't you think that it's perhaps

a little bit too had to discuss the things why has this it's been allowed to progress to a point when you have i made sure your own cultural body to threaten such an action i mean isn't it a little bit to wait for disaster it's already too late maybe no one expected this kind of. growth again back to. where we are located spring resealed. right 23 years ago 50000000 tourists and the last day it was 80 no one expected expected such. growth of inflows so can i ask you as a hog of the top here on tourism body how would you describe or define a con chair. tourist is it somebody who travels long distances or on the contrary somebody tries to travel as little as possible is it somebody who spans and consumes a lot or somebody who on the contrary is very conscious about spending and the

environmental and social impact that he or she would have a different kind of consumers let's say in interest to the question was that how we can differentiate and chances are asacol turns because at this conference you talk a lot about ethics but what it would have. it's difficult to resist will respect 1st of all the environmental respect the culture of respect the. hosting countries where he's going to and of course it's not the. case over the number of. people how many countries they visited. or less or more but we we see that the number of tourists are growing we have more than 1400000000 resistors last year and. so you still see growth as a good thing. ultimately because that's a that's a very important question and many people would say that growth and consumerism in

terms ms a detrimental thing growth is a good thing but sustainable growth is management it's really important that if you creation is really important quality of service is really really important there are many many. things which. we need to improve improve and we need to support that it's not only growth that's what i mention that it's not only about growth it's about it occasionally it's a boat you know vision again it's about many many components which we need to improve and we need to support of course to diverse and to see on the world there are lots of opportunities and we are supporting this. on the descent especially in africa continue to have a lot of space tools to support and to promote was going to have a very concrete and interesting plan and i joined up with africa minister oh to. support the growth of tourist because again i will be a little bit to create new jobs for africa clinton i think we're talking about the

region it's crucial to create new jobs and we are economy is that the growth flows tourist will create new jobs you know what to do we need to create. the growth of tourism we need connectivity we need. more connectivity we need more investments more investments in infrastructure and security and these are companies which we need to improve with them and again africa is huge going into we have 54 different countries and all of them they have different stage of development so there is another space to promote and to support them branding promotion and other issues for the continent support well secretary general we have to take a very short break now but back in just a few moments stay tuned. to

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welcome back to worlds apart this is about putting the secretary general of the world tourism organization secretary general i heard you say in one interview i think a year ago that in a decade maybe in 2 decades people will forget what we are still sure about that because from my perspective governments seem to be becoming more restricted if about who comes and who goes over the ocean for all the world need 20 percent.

when it was 8 or 10 years that is ago 10 years ago so we're working still a little bit and individually with all member states and countries to support you know resolve course and you know understand what it will that there are different issues and different internal lower 40 policies for each country and but again. for coasties to decrease the number of. to facilitate the travelers and to make their. life and troops more comfortable there are number of countries who are using the tourism outflows as a political leverage i think russia would be wanting. sample china would be another you can see a correlation between the number of tourists visiting certain countries and political relations with those countries what do you think about this as i was informed russia is going to open in 2 to give reason for the regime more than 100

countries same is going so the arabia to do it through the next through it is not always about. these say you know if you come from a regional or from georgia and you know that russia for example introduced. a freeze on direct air travel. russia and georgia that has a direct impact on the on the number of russian people traveling to georgia. do you take that as a as a political as a use of tourism as a political tool or do you see different. messages all those 2 don't mix politics and the rest between them because. i think that sometimes and in many cases these politico looking dynamic the decreasing. facilitation very optimistic and we think that this group and this possibility will be in many countries and again it will affect them to respect number of visitors let me ask

you one india to become citizens of these countries they still have. and many countries they don't have by the throat facilitation with with china and india and there was a promoting to be more flexible going to open for example the south america which is really for. 2 years ago they announced one reason for all or training is. the number of trainers there is increased china has from what i know the world's largest congregation of tourists that's a very big force that the could all. could be a very big resource and every time china has somewhat difficult political relationship with a country you can see the number of tourists drop for example it was with south korea recently taiwan in the united states the number of chinese tourists is now decreasing is that something that happens naturally or you suspect some political

interplay there not truly happen if there is some natural disaster but if something is happening between countries politically of course it's politico issue again before natural disasters also we have in many cases when the number is that it decreasing security issues it's another important thing we saw what happened in egypt in tunisia 56 years ago syria where as it was. so clearly collapsed the number of tourists decreased more than 50 percent but you know we have absolutely big change and we're very happy to see that the situation is becoming 2010 which was one of the best year for this country's. small let's well these issues are playing a lot of political. conflicts natural disasters and security issues these are 3

factors which affect a lot of tourist flows from one country to another i want to ask you one more question or perhaps 2 more question about russia and georgia but you know because i think it's a very interesting case for the industry and the reason it interests me is because i think it raises a question of what where hospitality begins and where the ends and if you receive where there is if you're foreign visitors from one country how. derisive for disrespectful you can't afford to be towards that particular country what's your answer to that. i was the minister of economy in tourist mean ga and starting from that day and this is the limit it was really difficult for me because it was just 20092002 the year after general conflict starting from the 2 till tomorrow i don't remember when one tourist from russia who was. and who felt himself. in all of them and would have and these are facts and numbers

that number of russian visitors increasing every year. increasing numbers more than from 5 to 10 percent of course if tomorrow we don't have it naturally the number of visitors will decrease why because according to the tourist needs accessible fastest way no one will come to georgia flying to we stumble from what we will hear a lot of people do look like they are in the us there is a lot of them because we have many. traditional cultural links that with all due respect mr berger is also getting a lot of benefit from russian tourists is it ok for the droege and society to have those and to russia not just on to kremlin but and to russian rallies in the center of the leases sparked by nothing i mean there the recent war horse was totally unprovoked it was over deputy obscure deputy sitting in the wrong place in parliament in the grand scheme of things this is nothing in the other it provoked

such a major reaction does it change your definition of sustainability when you can lose in a 3rd of your tourist over something like that how you build a sustainability after that sure that there were some mistakes there were hopes that this program will will be sold to i don't know where and when but i hope and. really be happy if tomorrow we'll have gained. more than more tourists will coming george and more tourists will come in russia as well and tourism is one of the best instruments for peace. knowing the government of georgia and russian politicians but i hope that. only dialogue and only. collaborative. so this problem and i hope that again the flights will be back do you think these situation this whole situation offers any lessons for your other member states in

what to do hope perhaps what not to do when it comes to tourism because again we have never well i may be mistaken that we have never seen something like that because i think we had a similar situation between russia and turkey if you years ago while there were political instability of political differences. direct flights were suspended that is it something that you think countries may. start doing more and more if political or geopolitical situation in the world the best i think it's not the best way of protest and it's not the best way to express your views very painful i mean it makes you sense a little again. i'm sure that it will be became a starting position and don't mix to a tourist with. with politics but politics and trade a mixed all the time how is tourism this for if it's another issue but tourism i think it's more important for to close people and to to have more more closer

relationship between people it's affect tourism more than trade there are other issues another interesting example of this interplay between politics and tourism is the united states and i know that their formal you know the member of your organization yet but i wonder if you are watching what's happening there tourism wise because there are a lot of conflicting information about how. president trump stands on migration is a fact not affecting the tourism industry regarding last year we were so that the decrease of. the rebels in the united states was it was decreasing going to a percent which is not so big big number they're still number one receiving tourists from over the world and. presents french polish too. if in fact i'm a tourist but as we're so the last 2 years i mean we don't have a big changes because people still are going to the united states we are very happy

and. on earth to see that the united states is becoming again a member of organization and when it decided that. it was to need a strong partner with us and the united states is number one today in interest sector many many things in other patients again in innovation and investments one of the biggest ever funds and companies from the united states and we want. more why do you in the united states is showing interest in your organization at the time when they're withdrawing from many other un bodies what i said special about this is an interesting question because they believe in tourism and they see the opportunities and that's why i'm sure that for them it's it's interesting to to to know more and will be closer with $158.00 member states and to support the organization which is doing i'm seeing quite interesting projects and thinks one of

the concerns that the years tourism industry repeatedly voice is is labor shortage in particular when it comes to bringing in seasonal labor sometimes undocumented labor and having to pay more to the locals and i think this is 11 of those examples when the interest of the industry and the interest of the state at least as defined by the current administration. do you know. when you have such a rich side on the side of the administration. or on the side of the. political decision. some. gold in. between. those who. support of course. this is our fearless over the top number one priority for us is to create new jobs in the.

additional families and all of this you know. getting something. for support. we have to leave thank you very much for being with us today. our viewers can keep the conversation going in our social media. hope to see same place same time here on the part.

there are growing indications the west russia's stance may be softening a case in point is the recent visit of francis. and defense minister or take for example the new york times editorial calling on better relations with the kremlin as a way to block china an important question remains can moscow trust. the west and evil . please today there are good and bad ones the bad news in yemen the united states. the good. lord in syria the cia and the us military were engaged in covert actions really throughout the world. where they were assassinating populist leaders they were backing up the right way military funding an army. there's no phones and because there's always a small clue for a really good. profit. the

headlines are not say the taliban sends a clear message they don't want trump an exclusive interview with. the us president and we think his decision to call off afghan. democrats call for an end to fracking despite the u.s. oil exports claiming it plays into russia's hands and a classic children's t.v. character gets fired from his job with diversity so that's. what he taking it up see to find some of them still green really enough and come quite happy with what it is a children's car and tell you if it can take meetings to fall is that easy.