route of this here go ahead emmanuel in paris well it's all of what you've mentioned but i asked to admit that it is not a european position and then of course not speaking on behalf of the european union . and france is a president sharing the g 7 at least to the end of the year but it is not at the head of european union finland is leading that is having this responsibility since last july i think the position of france which is of course a new paradigm which is a shift must also be put into consider taking into consideration for various. various agenda you mentioned the domestic agenda it is true that imran mccall as bit as been a lot. on this position in regards to the internal policy and this leading him not to have a diplomatic agenda which of course is as been put aside with the presidency of the

g. 7 and starting with the g. 7 summit in. re assessing the necessity to be a president a confident president speaking not on behalf of europe as i mentioned been on behalf of the most healthy as country in europe germany is in with the cancer under merkel in a very difficult internal policy the coalition between s.p.d. and see who is a bit weak and of course we've seen in the recent regional elections that extreme right as a lot. put a lot of pressure on the conciliar in great britain the agenda of the brics it is now linked to the internal survival agenda of brian johnson bringing him not to be having a say or not sufficiently willing or being capability to have a say on the international agenda and to a recent. 2 recent. level 2. recent dates the italian.

internal policy of course prevented former and now newly reelected. nominated does it become to be part of the international agenda so france is now assessing the fact that india rise in the next general assembly of the nation it is pushing a certain number of them both sides on which it wants to have a unique or. let's say let me let me get a jump in here that you have rational there's a lot of very good point here but john why france can't do this in a vacuum ok it is a european project at the end of the day if other european countries want to join in that's another question nonetheless france is an important country in the european union with briggs it looming it's important to rise even more and and i do think i agree i'm not disagreeing with that many well but it has to be a european project if there's going to be some kind of reproach moment here go ahead john in brussels. well i remember when i would regret when i watch

a manual or i'm reminded of a remark i once heard from a very brilliant woman who used to be very powerful under president pompidou money fosco said that french foreign policy had 2 choices whether to ally of allied with britain or with russia against germany those were the only choices facing prachi said throughout history. when i see him anyway my point initiating this new deterrent with russia i conclude that it's because the british angle has collapsed bricks it has ruined at least on the symbolic level the importance of franco british military cooperation which was france's way of counterbalancing germany within the european union and of course more prudently trump is unpredictable we know that emanuel it's very attached to multilateralism and we know that donald trump is fairly attached to unilateralism so in that context france is job

political choices are the same as they have been down the centuries but you asked about the european angle in what respect france's initiative which by the way as you i'm sure will but he knows it's part of a broader diplomatic initiative because my point by to the prime minister of india to be are it's to the g 7 he invited the iranian foreign minister securely france is taking a big role but in one sense this initiative is anti european because when told putin that i c. an't european i'm talking about anti e.u. when he told putin that russia was essential to the peace of the world and of europe he was if you like tearing up in front of putin's face the march resolution of the european parliament which proclaimed that russia was no longer a strategic partner of the e.u. back home was saying that russia has to be a strategic partner of the e.u. so in terms of the e.u.

as a body. this is absolutely in contradiction with the official texts and the policy of the brussels institutions but it is not in contradiction with the bilateral policy of other european states because what we haven't been noticing president putin has been all over the place in europe he was in rome in july it was in finland in august he was received in austria last year he's been to hungary he's been to serbia it's not as if russia is isolated anymore from any european state except from britain. and therefore france is initiative is european in the true sense of europe in the old tradition of european diplomacy but not of the faith diplomacy of the brussels institution luke luke weigh in on this here because i mean it i get it this is a great idea in my personal opinion it's something that the russians have been saying all the way back in the early to thousands of talking about

a new security architecture for for all of europe including russia and now we have the french president basically carrying a page from putin and medvedev i mean our side of the line here this is nothing new what's new is we're hearing it after 5 years of deteriorating relations go ahead look well i think the planets are aligned in a good position in a way i would stress the fact that germany has no foreign policy that's what the liberals in your position n.d. very strong f.d.d.i. alternative for saying repeatedly to a market you don't have a foreign policy look at mr mark or do you let him run europe as he does in other places so. muckle should do something about this and and she knows president putin well and i think she would accept to go a step further into direction of russia and for president michel it's very important now to give something positive. because he has had so many negative

things to announce and and to do lately domestically and also broad i mean his summit was a bit of everything but nothing much with rahm i mean there are subpoena physic of a few hours and that's it by the rain minister of foreign affairs so one something to announce any he would like to be told and a call to say that should be from the atlantic to the new routes and so he dreams himself now in the position of a new call to reestablish the contract with russia sending there not only was sure to yalta minister of foreign affairs which is normal he also sends the minister of the armies which is really you move which well look a little of that i saw as i saw the press conference the 2 at the 2 plus 2 press conference that's the reason why we're doing this program because i couldn't believe how in sync both parties were it was astonishing ok it manually me go back

to you in paris here now let's get down to the nitty gritty let's be friends but what does that mean what does it mean to correct. in the context of what you put it the french russian relationship how do you repair it let's talk about congo create things words are nice actions are better go ahead emanuel. well 1st of all i see a core difference between the foreign policy and the defense policy during the press conference of the consultative council for security which by the way was not linked to the side that russia was put out of the g 8 as to the mere election because this gathering this 2 plus 2 did not meet since 2012 it was not leaked precisely 2012 years not precisely linked to the russian bashing in a way it was nick on the side that france i decided to have another agenda and it's not an eastern agenda but it was a sudden agenda and that's akin to gender. of course linked to the reed to gratian

of nato and of course the implication of nato on its southern back and its southern eastern back that's the one thing so i see a difference between the way we are advancing on the defense agenda but i think stagnating on the front policy agenda it was very clear that's also probably spoke of a certain number of subjects in which they are a lot of convergence and of course counterterrorism and fighting against both in syria and libya i think of course having a more robust nuclear capacity as the united states have now and of course linked to the fact that the united states what came out of the. treaty of course and that the united states are reluctant to really open but they would have to start negotiation by 2021 year there is the danger of having deregulation in regards to ballistic in with me while i have to ration i have to

jump in here destruction we're going to go to a hard break and after that break we'll continue our discussion on is a far possible in relations state authority.

leg. oh. it's just slept.

very well now continue watching on since last. you. dismissed.

welcome back to cross talk where all things considered peter lavelle remind you we're discussing a thaw in relations. ok let's go back to john in brussels in looking at the news coverage of the 2 plus 2 meeting with the french ministers in moscow it did you know it got some coverage ok obviously in france but not a whole lot in the english speaking world and of all of the coverage i looked at nobody asked a really obvious question which i asked in my introduction is that why would the

russians want to trust these people after 5 years of this ridiculous bashing. making accusations without proving giving evidence sanction after sanction after sanction and i won't go through all of the shenanigans going there are plenty of them there and in the meantime russia has friends in the world that it's looking to the east and to the south all the while you know we have this russia gate has steria hoax going on but the world is moved on russia has moved on it has positive economic not that not not a lot but it does have positive positive economic growth it doesn't need the west and if they in terms of the sanctions and all that so i mean they kind of you know turn the question around i mean why would they were really want to get involved in this after all go ahead john. well i think that's an excellent question but that is in a sense exactly what the minute what the meeting was about what the meeting of the 2 the 4 minutes this was about. leon kept saying it that the goal was to build

what he called an architecture oh trust and one way to start rebuilding trust which very self evidently has disappeared on both sides you are not you and i may agree with the rush. point of view but it's just a statement of political fact that the west does not trust russia however mistaken that may be chair so the 1st stage in this process as in personal relationships when you want to rebuild trust is to start talking about rebuilding trust and of course above all to start talking but there are other reasons why i mean i don't think that russia should or should not trust anybody in international relations in a sense you never you don't base international relations on trust base you know it's all what ronald reagan used to say trust but verify you base them instead on calculations of interest and on reality and the fact is that the reality has moved

on you mentioned russia gate soman now in washington trump is calling for russia to be reintegrated into the chief ate that big point of disagreement ukraine has also moved on as i'm the last person to tell you peter we all know that the western puppet there has disappeared that the new redeem is making positive noises there'll be an exchange of prisoners and so on and you asked in your earlier question about nitty gritty that's going to be the 1st element of nitty gritty there's going to be a normandy format meeting soon and they will do as much as they can to get the ukraine thing sorted out at least on paper that'll be the 1st thing and then the 2nd thing and this is where i think russia has an absolutely classic clear diplomatic interest in these talks it's obviously in the treaty on nucular weapon and exactly this all swear france is like every european country is directly

concerned now we all understand now donald trump's shit his shtick is to walk into a room scream insults everybody at everybody and storm out again and you know throw throw all his toys out of the pram but then to come back and say one city. he did it with iran he's doing it with iran now he did it with north korea and that's probably his tactic with russia tiring out the i.n.f. treaty and then wanting a better deal but until that better deal comes europe is in an extremely dangerous situation as these intermediate nuclear weapons and indeed conventional weapons are directed at europe you know so there is a very real issue here which france and russia together and hopefully america in 2 calls will want to seoul so it's nothing to do with trust it is to do with nitty gritty ok. as usual joe johns is often on this program and makes excellent points so it's good when you have to start working together because it's

a necessity for both sides in all players that's a good place to start ok because the i n f treaty is something very vague for most americans because it does it's not draw it it does it has nothing to do with the united states per se it has everything to do with european security and if the united states is probably as it has pulled out of it in russia reluctantly agreed to go along with it if you if you don't want to parlay doesn't work here but if it really is a necessity for europe to think about that and the russians certainly don't want to get into any kind of arms race it is not in their interest and it's not in europe's interest either go ahead look. well it's not in europe's interest as you say that it's an interest for russia in making friends again with the europeans the west europeans this pressure me france and germany and maybe as well all of them because of the warmongering that's going on in brussels at nato over the last few years now it has been rarely annoying to hear what being said by some european governments in

poland in the baltic states yet about the danger russia the russian bear trying all that brady to to attack on the western flank to attack northern europe why on earth. why president putin opted not to do that on that note i think it should be no one to explain why that would be a possibility but it's a really good talking about it well look i lived in poland for over 10 years i know i know that shtick really well ok really well let me go to emmanuel you something that luke brought up here with this french initiative here and let's put that now let's put right next to it nato how is that going to work because nato needs an enemy and russia is the most convenient one i've heard all the arguments but it's true ok nato needs it needs a mission to prove it that it's a necessity to as an organisation and it's picked up on not terrorism not border

security russia because that's the easiest one to fall back on and you have the baltic republics you have poland which i know very very well they go along with that they want poland want so for trump ok how is mccrone going to have to square the circle with nato with his new initiative in approaching russia go ahead emmanuelle. well i think this is exactly what we start about in moscow of course again mostly between some gay should and. more than between us and trying to tell you i think john you thought it was well we're look since to go to moscow then. the minister of defense i think france pushed away this question of nato for various reasons 1st of all the narrative of the president when he speaks about the necessity to have more robust european defense he speaks about having european capabilities now go inside nato but having more autonomy its capability this is the core of the new french initiative of ice age in french he said.

which of course brings in only 10 of the 27 or 28 european countries so we are pushing more rapidly than a certain number of our partners to have more autonomy as. the plan of action and this was voted as the french the newly french commissioner see if you could i would push on that to have more autonomous will boost and so lead capabilities so it's not a question of convincing our nato partners it's not a question of convincing our european partners it's a it's a matter of vinci and using with the ones who have the capability to tackle the problems of the future in space in the cyber security. arena to talk all in areas where there is ongoing interests of course the northern see the baltic area and of course we have to say and we have to sink of

a regime when france is thinking of russia it is also as united states thinking of china and when the narrative is very clear it was assessed and really confirm during the speech that the french president made in front of the ambassador calling it a disruptive diplomacy we have to make everything possible not to push russia in the arms of china the commercial trade between france and russia is only of 11000000000 of euros a year but you know if you said you well if i can make it if i could we're going to hear russia manual i mean this time it's over the last year or so you know it in the new york times editorial which we embarrassed itself ok it's already happened ok this should get your partnerships are ready to happen the horses are in the bar the train is left the station i mean that is what i've been saying people have fallen asleep at the wheel for the last 5 years it's change it's already happened

john you're a green let me go ahead go ahead john. maybe phrase it well all right the many well real quickly real quickly that will go to john real quick emmanuelle. i think france is understanding that it had not understood the world as it is shifting and this is a clear when the former minister says we are already late on that person or and that doesn't mean what that we don't understand the necessity to have it now ok go ahead john champion sorry yeah well i mean you're quite right the horse has bolted russia and china have massive commercial links and above all they've been politically very shows in standing up to american unilateralism so the idea that the new york times idea that so you know a few nice phone calls to moscow can turn this around is it's nonsense and all i will say is that this is also in response to your question peter about nato if this project is to succeed we all know that emanuel in my home likes to try and

reconcile opposites he was that he's often caricature it in france for saying all mental at this you know one thing and at the same time the other. but he to some extent he's managed in for example in his other initiatives towards russia to do this to reconcile opposites he went to the st petersburg economic forum in $28.00 where france was the guest of honor france which of course like every e.u. country has sanctions against russia he said that france was russia's most reliable economic problem there in the garage skippable of reconcile our office and i think the key to success of this initiative must again in its realism you're not going to get rid of nato russia knows that you're not going to get rid of the anti russian d.n.a. of either nato all the. but you might be able to make progress as i say on one or 2 precise issues big ones for precise issues such as for

instance the you could have forces treaty or possibly things connected with libya on those issues it might be possible to sign step what is. otherwise. we're going to go to look look i'm going to give the last 30 seconds on the program what is public opinion in france about crones initiative visa v russia now i'm not asking about the yellow vests i'm talking about russia go ahead 30 seconds to you. but i think for many people it would be a good point i mean france is one of the few countries within nato that paste 2 percent requested by trump and by promises made by all the countries germany doesn't so the voice of france is heard and the french like the idea of the french and the other europeans too they like the idea that michael takes initiatives on the international front which the germans don't do and of friends boris johnson is stupidity with bricks it to do anything so i think it's the moment for me to show

my call to to make a point there and to win points and to speak to russia as the preferred intellectual to the preferred person to speak for europe i think it would work and if on the other side a good scientific. president trump also goes in that direction as was said in the american press i think we could have all the planning well i and i will i really have better relations i really wish the best for president mccrone but he's no de gaulle that's all the time we have gentlemen many thanks to my guests in paris alexander and in brussels and thanks to our viewers for watching us here or to see you next time and remember. to become eternal you have to become part of robots. you know

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taliban sends a clear message to donald trump in an exclusive interview with r.t. urging the u.s. president to rethink his decision to call off afghan peace talks. despite booming u.s. oil exports top democrats unite in calling for a ban on fracking but find themselves accused of playing into putin's hands. and a classic british children's t.v. character gets fired from his job over diversity concerns. you're watching our 2 international bring you your live news update from our studio here in moscow welcome to the program.