government to do what they didn't do on october the 1st 2017 when such a vote was held and they did exactly the opposite which is put people in jail my predecessors in the catalan government we saw colombo police troops being sent to hit people in their heads and we seen almost 2 years of preventive chill for people who organize a vote can i ask you specifically about that our friend because. from what i understand neither the current cut on authorities nor the spain authorities consider it illegal or free and fair for you it wasn't free and fair because of the police presence for them it was illegal as far as they resolve the concern and i think over 90 percent of people who came to the polls they supported the independence cost as far as the results are concerned do you consider them legitimate or it is it more like a legacy or every torkel issue for you it was an enormous wonderful feat bringing

millions of people to the polls enabling them to vote despite police disruption and brutality and it's something the people of catalonia cheve and the government which was in place then helped the people to do to vote freely for the future now that's the way we think things should be done perhaps we didn't have the strength to fulfill the mandate of the people and that's why we need international complicity and support to convince the government to spain that this is the sensible a reasonable way of doing things the democratic way because the use of force is not helping people in catalonia we believe that the majority of people but it's not a majority let's test it and let's find out the people in catalonia want to vote and that's a certainty for 80 percent according to most polls want to vote for the future and want to vote on independent. such an issue has to be delivered to the people and

democracy is the rule of the people for the people and with the people so that's the way we think it should be done now the leaders of the cut along independence moment who oversaw that referendum as you mentioned and now awaiting their sentencing by the spanish supreme court and. they are given political situation in spain over all that. jail terms may provoke their outburst of violence and their police and i've asked that of police cautious on the streets do you share this concern and we will discourage any aggressiveness and that's what we've been doing for more than 7 years ago this is a peaceful movement it's a civic movement and it's a movement which is fighting for human rights and for a democratic outcome because that's the only way out the use of force and we've only seen that on the side of the powers of the state in spain. police troops

were sent by the spanish government the catalan government was suspended by the spanish government because the law in parliament was suspended by the spanish government is a spanish judiciary system that has. put people in jail kept in there for almost 2 years a preventive jail without trial and we'll see what the sentences are right now and we're very optimistic but the use of coercion on the side of the spanish it doesn't help and we believe that it is a historical mistake now what we say to the international community to people in russia europe elsewhere what we tell them is look that's not the way to solve things nowadays we believe another way the only way possible is the one has to be agreed upon there are per person for the leaders of that referendum drastically different depending on which legal system they fall on their former president. pushed him on to go by the german court where some of his associates are now facing

up to 25 years in prison on charges of rebellion how do you explain such a drastic difference in terms of the legal treatment in europe where. legal systems are supposed to be harmonized so i think it explains itself you've got some of the members of the previous government. half of them which went into exile and there they have been overseen by courts judges legal systems they are all free citizens in europe whereas those who remained have been almost 2 years in preventive jail awaiting these sentences and we'll see what falls on their heads so clearly they're there's a european justice on one side which acts in a certain way and there's a spanish just the injustice we think that shows very well different ways to deal

with a situation which can only be met through dialogue through. talks finding this way which has to be democratic let me ask you a personal question i'm sure many are asking themselves if you had to choose between leaving your country or staying but being behind bars what would you personally opt for as you can imagine i thought about the dozens of times and i don't know i think both both options are respectable it depends on your own personal situation obviously if you have small children it's one thing if you don't it's different. i really don't know why i don't want to go to jail but ready to face it if the time comes because it's not my situation which is important it's the condition of the freedom of our people they are entitled to decide as of thomas jefferson said the world belongs to the living not to the dead not to things

which happened hundreds of years ago it belongs to citizens who have full rights and are living nowadays in this place so we must deliver to the citizens so how do you take the lead. if you deliver to the citizens while being behind bars would be somewhat constrained yes but morally high. all those in jail. are saying. telling those that are telling the world that this is a lesson of dignity to be learned that when you serve the people you have to serve them to the last of the consequences and that. they are their situation is less important than the goals which the these goals apply to rights the collective rights which cannot be relinquished which will not be surrendered now there but their morals is really much more important than their capacity to act.

effectively and that's how we consider them and that's why they are our leaders still are and will continue to be. i saying that. their moral high ground is a little bit higher than the situation of your former president. no. it's also somebody who is in exile is also a victim of repression and that just a different choice isn't going to compare them and he is not facing 25. in prison he's away from his kids. his family and general small children and it's not a desirable situation in my own party scatterable gonna we have one of the leaders the president of our party mr get us was in jail in madrid and the other one the secretary general this is the reader who is in exile in geneva now i understand both of them and they both took their decisions and when i talk to them either in

jail or in exile i feel enormous admiration the same for both of them i think that these people resent the deserve our respect for what they did for the courage they had and all the time i try to think about them when i have to take decisions but i think they do have moral height and that's why in moral terms we're way ahead of what. the powers of the state in spain are doing well minister we have to take a very short break now and i think we'll be back in just a few moments they can't.

today there are good terrorists and bad evidence the bad terrorists and those in yemen who the united states deems to be a threat the looked at it is those who are in syria the cia and the u.s. military were engaged in covert actions really throughout the world. where they were assassinating populist leaders they were backing up right away military windows funding an army death squads there's no posts anymore because there's always a small. religious cult that's. a prophet. the world is driven by shaped by one person.

the day or thinks. we dare to ask. the moment. that he and others. she don't. go to work. on his blog on the call from day to the political no culture when he does it all of you know the false the subtle just like your risk on the you can see each element view of them with bullets of them some one on some of the last of the lots and lots enough something will come down to it you're going to have video of the condition of the soul to die i mean she's on that sound a soft spot will not keep you down at this time i don't tell. you need to promote. the thing to the police if you use those you could pull the

ripples from the way. welcome back to worlds apart. or for an actual situation of relations and transparency of the telephone and. minister speaking about your of the supporters of get along as independents want to stay with then you are a bad one to have independence from spain what does it mean in practical terms well the difference is that we can have our own say and. we don't think

country or friends them's a minister in spain lying mr war a was trying to close down our delegations our voice in europe we want to be in europe we want deal in trade or in culture we want to have a free voice in our own voice in europe we think we can deal better with our problems if that's the case and that europe will listen better to our own circumstances. also to a certain extent it's difficult to work with somebody in madrid like mr were a again minister of foreign affairs of spain who's trying to block our action who is somebody else undiplomatic as to say something like russia is our old enemy things like that i think that it's out there we don't wonder if the iranian ministers coming to go you can always encounter difficult personalities whether they come from your country or. from somebody else has become the representative of

foreign affairs in europe exactly talking about that now but i mean that even if you were independent he would still be in that position if he gets his way so you put a who would want to be represented by somebody like that who would want to live in a place where your leaders are put in jail because they organized the vote so what we're saying is we want a catalan republic because we think it would be fair to our people we think that we would be free to take our own decisions we think it would be better for our welfare for our opportunities in europe and elsewhere that's what we think and i think it's legitimate correct me if i'm wrong but from my perspective border is a way big this and russia for example they don't exist anymore in the europe and catalonia has a fairly broad autonomy would say that compare it's you the governmental crisis in spain your ability for sell through is now bigger than for many other parts of spain don't you'll read

a half of all the tools that you would you suppose though well we obviously we think we don't we need and we want to have more but if what you're saying is true if there's a. huge amount of self-government and borders are not as straight as they were in the past then what's the big deal what's the big deal why not accept a new state in europe of people who are pro european want to remain in you were not brought to tears will remain yours and want to contribute to the well for of europe into the european values of democracy of equality of dialogue of peace and we think that we are ready to contribute on our own to this new europe but it's part of the euro meet the european community and constituency what's the big deal what's the problem why can't we accept that possibility in the 21st century. i'm sure you would agree that. separate from spain perhaps in your vision of would be

better but it would also have to recognize that spain without catalonia would not be the same country do you have any sympathy for your spanish friends and neighbors and brothers because to tell on it contributes a significant portion to the spanish g.d.p. it's a very vital region and obviously spain would lose a lot if it lose its get along in. are you suggesting that the kingdom of spain is dealing unfairly with catalonia that we're paying the bills for spain is a word you're suggesting i'm not suggesting that but i know that they stealing is pretty widespread here in catalonia and i think many people here at least from the people we talked to yesterday they feel that the central government is taking more than it's giving to them let me say that right now the main issue is not economic there's an economic side to everything but right now the issue is of civil rights

and of democracy we want to be of age we want to take our own decisions so i think it's quite reasonable to understand why do we want to stand up have our own say and contribute to the welfare of europe and of the world on our own from our own side we think we're perfectly capable of and as you said we're a prosperous place we don't have economic problems as a country with our economy which is booming right now tourism is booming and whoever has been in catalonia or in barcelona knows that this is a place of talent creativity of economic prosperity hardworking people so we think we could make an enormous contribution to europe and its diversity and minister i think there is a clear correlation that when economic times are good they support for independence tends to the window and when. there is a crisis economic crisis. support for independence towns to increase. some people

in a retort to your argument that one of the reasons while the lawn and get along as a whole has been made so prosperous is because of the contribution of the entire country of spain that not the case which contribution while the budget their contribution to support for barcelona when it was preparing for the olympic games etc i mean like you have a very long history and they were both good and bad economic times for for the entire country we believe in solidarity and nothing we've proven the biggest demonstrations for welcoming refugees biggest demonstrations for international aid incorporation have taken place in parcel in our society is a caring society concerning the whole world and concerns spain as well no that's not the issue the issue is is that solidarity free and voluntary or is it forced to what extent does help in sticking together and helping other people to

what extent can that be taken and forced to another situation where you're actually being ripped off where you're not being dealt with fairly and you also have strong theories in favor of the 2nd issue but i insist this is not an economic question and right no we have a government from the catalan parliament which came from the elections and there's a pro independence majority when there was a crisis. but so years ago the same slight majority you're mentioning was there so things are not that different in times of crisis in times of prosperity people are smiling in open well it's been fluctuating to be a fair let's vote for this because what's the problem about voting well i think the problem from the point of view of both madrid and brussels is that if. they do you

course as you see it is pursued here it may inspire other independents or secessionist moments are nationalist moments as across europe do you have any concerns about that because obviously because of an issue is a very old one but there are more recent coffees it would you like to see europe pursuing that nationalist secessionist path a more actively than it's now look they voted freely for independent scotland the result was no they did in quebec the result was no now what's the result when you say to people that they cannot vote and that whatever they vote they won't be recognised it actually helps you in increasing your numbers now since this whole process started and the spanish government and the spanish war nikki and spanish power has been saying constantly no you're not free to decide you're not free to vote what has happened the numbers have been increasing the last 15 years we've increased from roughly 10 percent of pro independents population to half of that

population 50 percent but obviously there's been a very sharp increase in support for independents and white in part and only important but in part that's also because of repression because people are not allowed to decide what happens when you tell a teenager no you can't be free you can't go out tonight you can't engage in sex you can't do anything freely the teenager will probably feel a desire to do things freely all which is prohibited there is not a lot of people to a teenager and i'm comparing the attitude of the spanish government to a parent who doesn't realize that young people turn of age and then they have their rights to be free to decide upon their selves and to emancipate now is somebody is dealing with a whole community or a country like catalonia as if it were underage and not allowed to. to do whatever

it seems fit in a reasonable peaceful democratic way if you don't allow that you're dealing with this population of citizens and obviously we don't like that a few months ago you sounded cautiously optimistic about the government the federal . who favor it. with. do you think that opportunity has been for we explore it by both sides it has been fully explored by mr sanchez and his government despite the fact as you mention that if it hadn't been for them for the pro independence parties he would never have become prime minister so there we assisted in changing mr roy horn and we hope that the mr science it will be different but now we see people still in jail almost to use their preventive jail without trial accused of organizing

a referendum because they charge and the judiciary right will the the state attorney and the public prosecutor have very close connections to the government in fact the general attorney is named by the spanish government and the specific prosecutor designed by the government is under the orders of the spanish government and they have required a request the very heavy sentences which i hope are not rule to let me also ask about another controversy surrounding the european parliament in which the electoral board at the spanish electoral board for bade a number of. local representatives from taking their seats had the european parliament i think we are talking about 3 individuals do you take that as a legal or a political issue. well the european parliament is a body of political representation so there's no other way you can take that let me

say also that this proves that the catalan issue and the conflict in spain is not a purely local for it's not an internal affair of spain it's in the european parliament and they're in the european parliament they're dealing with something as substantial as finding out whether the european parliament the sovereign and can accept those any piece of those members of the european parliament which have been which have been voted in this case for instance by more than 2000000 people now as a dozen member states like spain have the right of veto to say who goes to the european parliament and who doesn't go there i think that's wrong but it's there on the table of the european parliament it's a united nations it's a national parliaments it's in the international media it's all over the place this is an international issue. let's face it pro-choice and on what do you think you are a human pain that it's political but my understanding is that the court and especially

the supreme court has to follow the law which would have meant that those representatives including mr pritchett mana would have to appear in person before the central electoral committee and take the pledge of allegiance on this banished constitution which explicitly bans regional referendums now he went against others of well i mean they're all true that's true i'm sorry he's got no you know there was a provision and spend his lot of bending referendums like you mentioned that was a raised 2007 but clearly mr bridger on the end back in 2071 against that constitution because here preceded by referendum do you think he kept watch referendums are contemplated in the spanish constitution but isn't that the night. 78 constitution doesn't it stress the indissoluble unity of the spanish

nation which i think is a code phrase for so long it so would involve having no look i'm pro in the by the entire country i'm pro independence of and. it's in our program i've been elected to spanish congress been elected to the city council in the cuttle in government it's not illegal because. defending in pursuing a. particular political program be it in the pens be it unionism be it whatever socialism whatever that cannot be illegal now what the can say is that events or acts could be illegal but. we don't believe they did anything illegal by taking people to the to the polling stations the vote that would be outrageous but anyway the issue that you're talking about is really very troublesome can a judge really decide whether an elected representative can go to

a chamber or not know sent in the serbian ruled and the spanish courts have already said these people have not been tried cannot go to the european parliament or to the spanish congress now i think that's wholly unfair and that is something which looks very illegal to me apart from unfair while mr rich have to leave it there but i really appreciate your candor thank you very much for your time you're most welcome and courage of yours to keep this conversation going in our social media pages and hope this year again same place same time here and i want to part.

well you know the cars they were kind of adopted because we were called pirates for so long. i've been there in the smaller boats nic said a hard pull of ships and it's still very. much up in. the little self to be told fish already 90 percent of it are caught i need to fall in the calmer. cons of 15 scoops 75 tons to 100 stored several times a day with a big fleets of power you get an idea of the ocean the fish. we have to understand we can all stay still and just. be with them this will be

deal going through the hours. i'm doing this because i want the future world to the future can generations to have out and enjoy the ocean we have. what politicians do something good. to put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president or injury. or somehow want to. have to go right to be close this is what will go for 3 in the morning can't be good. i'm interested always in the waters in the college. first sip and all. thousands of american men and women choose to serve in the country's military and the decision lives every

function to be a complete. the day that i was raped to be instructed is you know told to shut up. they'd kill me and i see how it destroyed my life any screamed at me and he made me come in the gram my arm and he write me with his birth. if you take into account that women don't report because of the extreme retaliation and it's probably somewhere near about half a 1000000 women have now been sexually assaulted in the us military rape is a very very traumatizing tat happen but i've never seen trauma like i've seen from women who are veterans who have suffered military sexual trauma reporting rape is more likely to get the victim punished and be offended and almost 10 year career which i was very invested in and i gave a sex offender who was not even put to justice or put on the registry this is simply an issue of tower and violence male sexual predators for the large part of target whoever is there to prey upon whether that's a man or women. was.

making headlines today the u.s. continues its strong rhetoric now accusing to. oil facilities rebel saying they did it around the slums the accusations. while washington stance on iran didn't soften even after a hawkish u.s. national security advisor john bolton was fired this week vali double trouble. also in the stories that shaped the week an american t.v. network sues the top presenter of another child all for the scribing the most paid russian propaganda we look at the truck record of the mess in d.c. host and question when it comes to making claims about the.