welcome to worlds apart they asked on the platform for mediation of the syrian conflict has never been to me free klopp but over the last couple of months disagreements between russia and turkey and iran have become so stark the deliveries don't even try to conceal don't with diplomatic platitudes has the form of the promise of course or others frictions on the country an indication that it's working well to discuss that i'm now joined by alexi klebnikov middle east expert at the russian international affairs council alexey it's good to see you again thank you for coming over to the front loading now anyone who has been following the ask in the proceedings knows that the previous meeting in february was marred by the tensions between russia and iran the reach now seem to be even more overshadowed by the more pressing disagreements between russia and cherokee how

would you describe the state of affairs among these 3 unlikely partners. well i would put it as a marriage of convenience which applies to both relations but here in marriage of convenience a love triangle love hatred it depends on how you look at it if you look at this from by the true times perspective then it's more of a marriage of convenience if you look at that from original perspective in how the 3 countries act interact in syria than it's more frango. i saw you write recently that the ass in the platform has started to lose its steam and that russia is now more actively trying to get the arab states involved in managing what essentially is an arab problem being now mediated by non arabs has there been any progress on that front well from the very beginning actually jordan joined the ass in the form of back in 2018 i

believe and was the 1st arab observer state now in beginning of august there was and roundabouts in the talks and the assault on. iraq and lebanon joint so basically now we have all countries neighboring countries taking part in this process except of course taking part all israelis sitting on the sidelines and watch it's important to send a signal to the arab audience to the arab street that these 3. actors russia iran and turkey understands how it's vitally important to get on board arab states and i think that the and the standing that it is inevitable that sooner or later countries like egypt with about 1w1cw people and important actors like saudi arabia or you

a york. i have ultimately be on board with this new original magnesium original platform so i think that understanding is coming more and more to the aleuts now from my perspective i think the founding members would also benefit from a new company because. i've got the impression that with every new meeting their mutual frustrations are growing and if we take the latest the anchor and made up we know that russia cherry here and that will last at full longer than expected and yet it finished with the leaders. seeming i wouldn't call them a nerd but clearly depleted and we know from their later statements that the disagreements the passing disagreements over what to do in it lead haven't been resolved so how long do you think the status quo which turkey is clearly interested in maintaining but russia is very unhappy about how long could it last

well known no one knows exact dates and timelines of this but you can see that actually even despite having this disagreements and repeating themselves both put in there to go on from year to year on the same issues that we need to stick to this it lip deal wanted to. fight terrorists but anyways russia continues supporting syria their army local operations which slowly but the great you are moving up north taking more and more terrorists and despite turkish retore of and even actual increasing military obsession posts turkish position posts in the area it doesn't stop both leaders and countries on prating but at the same time it's kind of like. the agree to disagree and to continue this paths because to look at this brought up. picture it the provinces to the connected

with the history fred is so north eastern syria where similarly both putting rouhani support their guns plans for this buffer zone probably in exchange for ultimately getting it live on the damascus controlled well the east of your freighters area has not been formally discussed yet so let's stick with the evening for the moment do you think turkey is deliberately dragging its feet or is it indeed so challenging to you put into practice what has committed to on cora's. ability to influence militants and terrorists and even opposition on the ground of over exaggerated because for the last several years i mean it. couldn't stick to its commitments even for the last year we see that it's basically failed

to implement what it promised to actually personally to put in there against the us will would make everything to stop or prevent attacks on russian military infrastructure russian personnel russian objects and also a syrian army but that continues so here it's also very hard to took its leadership took knowledge that and. basically object themselves from what they previously been committing for 4 years supporting a position groups and rebels on the ground and now just you know about they also made commitments to you i'm via those commitments. it's difficult but but i'm not it's the game is going on that's and again it's impossible to look at it lip excuse or let it live as an isolated issue it's tightly connected with again not just syria because that is more strategically important for the gun and in the prism or

a bargaining chip but from my understanding russia's ability to influence things on the ground in the east if you freydis is also very limited i mean moscow can offer 3 torkel support but can it provide anything practical in return for practical steps that it wants turkey to take well it seems to me that russia is trying to act through turkey so basically backing its plan and. probably. implementation of this buffer zone resettling to up to $3000000.00 refuges to this area is that will certainly create a station of pressure on syrian kurds and united states which actually would. help took to strike more favorable deal with united states on that area and also that might help to convince kurds to be more flexible and prone to dialogue and talks with damascus and here moscow will come as

a useful broker. can ask if provoked of questions many in moscow believe that the turks back in 2015 after the delay shutting down of the russian military jav and a very strong economic push back from us but that they have learned the lesson and that they won't try most because patients again is that still a safe assumption. well i don't see any reason why on korea would pursue this. mis logic or even dating the idea of repeating that scenario and i think that in the last it's already been 3 or 4 years to countries managed to establish a mechanism of military to military intelligence to teligent channels of communication to basically avoid any potential clash or incident which could slide into you know bigger compensation interestingly it was said in ankara that

russia and turkey intend to step up their operational coordination which i take as an indirect indication that the syrian army offensive on that leap is likely perhaps to intensify and turkey may want to. protect its assets now the evil rebel crowd has a lot of media support in the west do you expect the outcry over humanitarian concerns to be just as loud as it used to but he didn't stop i mean yes it did i mean been it's been almost continuous in the same level well i think the level actually decreased significantly and. i think there is a clear reason why it happened because in the past those humanitarian concerns were used to as a means of stopping the offensive but nowadays many of the sponsors of the armed opposition i don't know that there or they have lesser interest in keeping this war

going so i think some concern is there but it's much last express them before probably but just in the run up of the. encore summit there were several sorts of publications saying that turkish military is increasing the number of the observation posts in a loop in the bid to basically slow down. event syrian army backed by russian forces offensive to over it's towards the area so and that is the do what you're saying. trying to pursuing a go of like dragging this you know in it even deeper like slowing down the freezing the status quo but come on i mean. how i may be running into problems with the turks here but i don't take the humanitarian concerns at face value because they're also known for abusing human rights quite substantially so maybe they're

using their concerns for their own pragmatic interest what i want to ask you though is i'm sure both russia and syria would love to have the united nations or some international organization to manage the humanitarian aspect of that offensive is there any chance of that happening but i think that's impossible and russia or the explicitly told that that without. eliminating terrorist threat you cannot you know get humanitarian aid in there one of the. international red cross is still working there right but if you want to inquiries amount of material and aid flowing and to make sure it's reaching its you know target audience not terrorists or if that's a terrorist organizations in to make sure that. the state structures municipal structures are in place not that of depart in the butt but the local ones and so

that and that one of the major russian's argument that we need to and as well they call turks to do the same to increase is push. against terrorists in a clip which will open up the road for increased humanitarian aid to. refugees coming back whatever. let me ask you a quick question about one more. participant of their talks and this is. obviously iran there was one interesting moment during the televised proceedings when. rouhani kind of turned to go on and he said that quote the aliens will leave sooner or later but we'll continue to be neighbors and clearly he was referring 1st and foremost to the americans but some interpreted that as a as a job against the russians do you take it this way and compared to the turkish frustrations with moscow how big are the rainy and frustrations with russia. right

it's interesting you know it but if you look at you know russia turkey and iran russia actually is a neighbor of both countries not true but for see a cast and blacks so russia. views both countries as neighbors and even the ron and turkey also has russia as a neighbor so i wouldn't go for hard king that rouhani also meant russia so i don't take a while i say we have to take a very short break now but we'll be back in just a few moments stay tuned and. again

we stand on the brink of war we should not be surprised the fictional washington was quick to blame iran for the attack on saudi energy assets iran has denied involvement while the who have claimed responsibility will trump take the neo-con bait and set the middle east on fire. financial life i don't buy any i'm on a few. things on the fly. at the last minute from the future. don't trust

your watch guys are. welcome back to worlds apart with the likes of plenty of middle is the expert at the russian international affairs council election just before the break rare discussing rouhani is remarked but he was clearly not the only leader who who made a splash in media splash the russian president as well tried to crack a joke. about saudi arabia missing the chance to buy russia's air defense systems which according to him could have prevented the latest attack on its oil facilities that jew both from air though on any but i wonder if it's perhaps a bit too risky to joke at the saudis expense there was and that the kind of people

that. they would take lightly somebody sense of humor right but it's again a matter of an interpretation i don't. put in actually crack a joke about saudi arabia quite the opposite he just publicly opened up an opportunity for saudi arabia to you know increase its and gauge with russian military technical sphere and also we know for sure that talks on. saudi by russian equipment including hundreds are to go in so that will definitely top the agenda among other things put in his visit to saudi arabia later this year but also want to point out that it actually. more interesting to see what is the reaction of iran because actually run here was demonstrate is a we could play because he was the only nation with 300 and turkey bought 400

and put in. so direct it to by again the more sophisticated. expert i think that's a very good marketing i mean they can always go back to russia but that will be going up the question how iran would view and perceive the situation when saudi arabia will be equipped with a better defense system than iran but if they stick in the agree with me that it was put in the very sort of joking way and as we say here in russia there is only so much joke in any joke saudi arabia spends billions on in defense this how is it possible that a drone or a dozen of drones s. claim would be able to penetrate so deep into its territory and costs colossal damage. well some experts argue that lack of training of the soda personnel who is in charge of that and secondly. as far as i know there is no specific on time

drone weapon it's been on the development but. still when i went to area of the united states to speak it because some sort of i am not an expert on the on the military technical characteristics of weapons but i mean it's the 1st time basically when saudi arabia faces such such an attack on such a critical and the g. infrastructure so that just indicates. the necessity and need to wait or take sometimes even more billions on defense and many actually no more billions but to spend the more wisely and broker that also what would in try to refer to so that probably spend some more money on buying some russian equipment instead of american because the russian equipment also comes with the

expertise and the obligation to train specialists and ronit is the main already and we have russia has an. advantage because of the over the last year or 2 the russians would mean bayh's in syria been under numerous attacks also by drones and have been and our air defense systems not on this 100 but. punster and others including the tronic war fare mechanisms aimed at repel and drone attacks proved to be quite successful so we have already tested technology and this is quite good opportunity to market them ok well let's at least military and this program and marketing show. i heard some people seriously question the both the saudi. the who team narrative of this attack because the who to rebels almost immediately claimed responsibility and there is speculation that it was a long range cruise missile the rob of the drones i mean we would never actually

said this point we don't know for sure but do you think saudi arabia may have any benefits in trying to misrepresent the nature or the means of this attack. well i think the 1st the very 1st reaction of saudi arabia is very indicative that they didn't act in aligned with the united states and didn't immediately put the blame on iran but what they did they claim that they were would collect the together its national experts with the reps of the u.s. knights of nations to have a thorough investigation and actually that's what also put in the cold saudi prince with whom he had a talk just a couple of hours ago to have this. comprehensive investigation so i think saudi arabia understands ole possible risks especially dragging into another war not being sure the united states will back or even lead this war so i think they

will continue this cautious. behavior and won't try to escalate speaking about being dragged into a major war to me personally this attack looks a little bit like 911 not in terms of the human loss but in terms of the simplicity with beach it was perpetrated identifying a weak link and heating where it hurts the most do you see any symbolism here going after the saudis most iconic asset by the use of air power whatever it was i mean at a very least it exposed saudi arabia as a paper target a country that stands so much in security and that cannot protect its major facility look i don't think that anyone took seriously saudi arabia. truong militarily i mean we're not feel as they have you how much are they so bad on that it does it not it doesn't matter look at the last 23 years and the saudi adventure

in yemen so they initiated the war with. way under armed under trained less professional yemenis and well but we had similar episodes 6 in history i'm. and this soviet union was also very strong militarily but it wasn't very successful in the waging a rebel warfare in afghanistan and i mean that you cannot put only on saudi arabia but when it comes to them spending so much resources on protecting themselves and being absolutely defenseless against what is said to be a drone well again the it's. a curse in the blessing to be us partner so it's all about the united states now another. yes and no but it's important factor because actually old we're i mean just the powers who are united states partners don't invest. a part of

the military heavily in their training or in the thing they've been haven't been involved in any military serious military affairs for for decades that attack on the saudi oil infrastructure comes on the heels of the still mysterious attacks on oil tankers in the sea of amman and i say mysterious because the general public is still being kept in the dark about the identity of the perpetrators but i cannot believe for a 2nd that intelligence agencies beat off russia iran israel france or the united states for that matter don't know who stands behind it why do you thing there's so little information about those attacks still i mean months later well i think it's probably because of the entire region is kind of a ticking bomb and you don't want to. tensions in escalations by throwing you know mrs courtenay to. results of investigation or even without investigation

which could escalate. the situation so i would argue that everyone understands the importance do you think they know of what happened then who did it. i don't know for sure but yeah i mean that can't exclude this probably the no but it's not about what you know but how you deal with the information which you have whether you. can unveil it or is it profitable and what consequence is an outcomes will it to now we mentioned the yemeni conflict before and in addition to cracking jokes marketing the sales of russian weaponry whatever. you know how and where you put it russian president also side the qur'an in ankara to called the parties in the yemeni conflict to peace or as he said that twice to turn anime's into brothers is moscow looking into. getting more involved in the yemeni mediation

i think it follows up with. it was in line with russia's general policy of marketing itself as a broker in the region so just using yemen as a stark example because it's connected with the recent attack on oil facilities in saudi arabia and that's being one of the major reasons as also rouhani said that that was actually the logical response from yemeni people because they've been on their catastrophic. siege and bombardment for 4 years now and. put in try i think. position our country which has the. big must the minority also to position itself on as procure the book which understands not only your job political of security concerns but also culturally even religiously and i think that also plays

into putting his hand as a super professional to promote negotiator is that clever and. now as you said before put in a schedule to visit saudi arabia and the united arab emirates next month and on the eve of that visit moscow has been playing up its what it calls the gulf security initiative which i think runs in contrast to what the united states is offering there talking about multilateralism instead of the arab nato less weaponization of the region the russian foreign affairs ministry even called for a quote holistic mechanism to collective security i think this is the 1st time i see them using the word holistic. is that just the p.r. exercise for russia or is there indeed a chance of practical chance of some of those initiatives to be put into practice in the 1st place this initiative has been you know. in the works for for decays and

is just another iteration of russia's proposal for these concept security council for if they just russia as you know selfish marketing or does it actually believe that something like this could be implemented at this point of time with the region as a day it's not about what you believe in that's just about you know what diplomacy is about it's the art of of possibility so you keep trying trying trying in every possible moment and no one knows if you know around the corner you're another attempt will finally. succeed so and now it's the perfect time actually especially off to the attacks in saudi oil facilities to again to push and act by the diplomatic push for this concept or at least to spark another wave of talks or negotiations within the region between the countries so i don't think it's just

p.r. it's i mean it's both anyways well it's p.r. with some stuff like well actually we have to leave it there but it's as always it's a pleasure talking to you thank you very much for being here. our viewers can keep this conversation going in our social media pages ask for me and the team we hope to see you again same place same time on the all time part. of. join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to us from the world of politics small business i'm show business i'll see you then.

the tense situation in venezuela is still all over the news the problem in venezuela is not that socialism has been poorly implemented but that socialism has been great only implement inside venezuela things are different we're going to announce sanctions against petroleum to venezuela so sudan famously have a son of the mahmoud. down person that sort of polling data to see. on the move to the. well known to the who story is a new nixon called in henry kissinger to tell him that it would not be tolerated in latin america and old terms of economic and social system could take hold and therefore the policy would be to make. the chilean economy scream

so once in the making the economy of venezuela schoolies. saudi arabia says saturday's drone attacks on its oil facilities were unquestionably sponsored by iran claiming the missile components were made. on. israel's long calls for yet another election stalemate with prime minister netanyahu lagging one seat behind rival benny gantz the coalition talks now loom as neither have enough for a majority in parliament. in the coming days will convene negotiations to assemble a strong zionist government i intend to speak with everyone starting tonight we will work to form a broad unity government. and the new york times publishes an extra.