the u.s. is sending extra troops and weaponry to the middle east they say to protect saudi arabia from iran. thanks but now claims it's a competition not just a platform in the legal case which could have a major impact on what the signs. make his will to pull the plug on the huge trade deal between latin america and the e.u. the finest in the outlets and. well that's it for me for now on the day which you do will be here with you next hour to take you through all the latest headlines from around the world and stay with us for coastal.

blowing welcome across for all things considered. israel's parliamentary elections have again ended in deadlock the electorate is divided divided on the political right sitting prime minister benjamin netanyahu says it's either a right wing blog or again chris air back government how does this kind of rhetoric bode for the palestinians and middle east the ability. really alexion as i'm joined by my guest philip giraldi in personal he's a former cia counterterrorism specialist who is now executive director of the council. for the national interest in tel aviv we have gideon levy he's

a columnist for hideouts also in tel aviv we have mehlman he is a senior israeli security writer and commentator original macross titles in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciated gideon let me go to you 1st in tel aviv an ask you your perceptions of this election cycle you know i looked at israeli media in english and of course they go through all the different platforms and ideas that the point different parties have but from my perch really far away it really looks to me is that how far right will the next government will be and how much people like or dislike bibi netanyahu is that a fair way to kind of assess this election go ahead gideon. it's more than. the election and therefore my election will only on one issue benjamin it to the oh yes or no and the choice is really between the nice right wing and the list.

or if you wake only sent through the right and the right it's a very small choice but that's the choice of the people of israel ok philip going back to you donald trump. supported netanyahu when that looked like he was going to when he distance himself from him but it was was trying kind of a gateway for netanyahu to go either for even further to the right because of course you know there were these placards all over israel with trump and netanyahu together. did trump make about a poor calculation here. well i think actually it was it was netanyahu who was making the calculation i think he was delivering the message that he could get virtually anything out of trump and in seeking to make that impression he was talking about a rather extreme step which would be occupying annexing. much of the

west bank and he knew he could get away with it that trump would support him on this but where he was mistaken in thinking that this would be a game changer for him on his corruption charges and other problems with them and of course it didn't work out that way ok you know you know so you let's go back to tell of eve i mean. it's going to be a new government eventually but how much different will it be from netanyahu is government and his long tenure as prime minister i mean it seems to me there's so much focus on personalities here but policy wise again for my perch very far away it looks not even new wants to go ahead and tell be. well i think the reason is sea change in israel. benjamin netanyahu with defeated. these really electorate decided to stop these efforts.

to undermine these really fragile but still democracy and need that same as mean that they always do lose their and doesn't like losers in tara's off policy change that would be much more difficulty but at least there would be some changes externally well i doubt it but there is a hope. getting the same question to you i mean it i guess you know one of the biggest wild cards that could be played that's never been played before in israeli politics is the arab list of 13 seats that the arabs captured in now well obviously they're not going to be made king makers or king breakers but there is a possibility something that none of us ever really thought could happen if they could be somehow maybe not be in the government but maybe support it and that

changes a lot of things i would imagine go ahead gideon. i wouldn't go so far jointly which is the serve the biggest party these are the parliament after those elections is hardly counted i mean they're really. both parties try to avoid themselves from the. left center so-called the bloke will have to use their votes but i don't see any guns inviting them to the government part of them wouldn't join his government but part of the might join the government but. the guns are not ready to legitimize to rare legitimize these early palestinians who invited them into the government there will try to gain the support to give them something in return it might be a small step toward normalization equalization if you want but the policy

is still very very long to go you know if philip it's very interesting with the possibility i think what we could call a mini arab spring within israel parse that with. deal of the century what we know of it which is a farce from what i have seen so far it basically negates the very existence. the palestinians are just not there so you don't have to deal with a problem that doesn't exist but with this election cycle you're going to have some people in israel have to start thinking really hard because this is the 2nd election this year be the main parties that are in deadlock something has to change here but the question of her plan only makes things worse again from what we already know of it go ahead bill. well i think that your assessment of the question or plan is is extremely accurate the course their plan is going nowhere and it will

go nowhere i think that the that in washington they've been reading the tea leaves on this for some time the expected money from some of the arab states that was supposed to pay for all of this is not forthcoming the palestinians are going to say no to it and i think with the change in government which we expect either into a unity government of some kind without netanyahu or with ganske any gann says prime minister will be significant gant says has been while not welcoming the palestinians or of the arabs has basically been saying some good things about them discussing them as fellow citizens and i think it does change the mathematics if you have 13 parliamentarians who are with the arab group and they are not voting against the government that changes the mathematics of what the new administration might look like ok it's go back to yossi in tel aviv what i think we have to assume

it least under certain circumstances that netanyahu is out at least for now he's going to face an indictment in about 2 weeks we don't know the outcome about what is his long legacy in israeli politics is that a positive or on the negative side of the ledger go ahead and tell it be. well i i think it is legacy would be did yes. our allies. israeli politics. we must arise the israeli elect the right and in a way. he became a world leader on the world stage he served or brought israel to on the very joyful next sation. he has polarized the israeli society. on. trying to basically kill the israeli democracy and turn

into a kind of fire new eridu on israeli version of turkish air do on and has gotten at least harmful days really populous a little bit more than i have like 51 christian decided enough is enough and i believe that. net is on the its way to the grave to the story graveyard of those who did nothing in terms of making the change. and leaving it there are legacy to future generations you know gideon i mean i've read quite a bit about netanyahu is did he move did he was he the trailblazer moving israeli politics of the right or was he a follower realizing that it was a good vote catcher ok and where is he in the dynamic and what's the cause and effect relationship go ahead gideon. i just want to continue your series.

yossi didn't mention one thing which for for my point of view is crucial i seeing that and he. killed finally finally he didn't started finally the 2 state solution he put it off the table in irreversible way i don't see anyone picking it up again and this is very crucial now. i have some appreciation to not only our unlikely many of my friends because i think that he had the vision and the vision was to kill the 2 state solution i think this man does not believe neither peace nor in any kind of relations with the arabs in general and the palestinians in particular he doesn't believe in diplomacy which leads to peace which leads to

a real peace he believes only only living on the saw living god is a power living on its army or its intelligence or its technology and this is a very depressing vision but that's the thing else vision ok philip will finish out the part of the program where cancer him and he's no doubt of i mean he probably has he'll go down in history and in the for the people in gaza again what is the what is to change what is the continuity go ahead philip. well the continuity is i think that he has pushed the country to the right. he may have you you could argue that he's exploited sentiment that was already there but his his particular brand of fear mongering mongering and his particular brand of of emphasizing force as a solution is something that was unique to him and i think this is something that may not be recoverable and of course a good for the commentary that he has the story of the 2 state solution is

completely accurate ok i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and out about short break we'll continue our discussion on israel's election state with our city. they all see themselves as dying swans in their dreams. but only one of us settles and will ever make it to the told. they're ready to give deadlines for the chance to die on stage if only once. not even broken wings computer. for generations at the madrid ski theatre ballet

sweats it is oh no it's. the eyes you live but if she warn you and i do the dishes at the bottom or those jeans near the speech and you see me you blew true she. doesn't know about that when it dies you. can mean is i mean that is or that infants involved. a lot of you will see sawing as if parts about 2 kids each other both. as a meeting with me as if. this. last. year and she beautiful dot cabinet 5 days doing. an english lady a for people who simply knew. she would include in total. what

politicians do something to. put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected . so when you want to be president and she. wanted. to go right to the press this is what before 3 in the morning can't be good. i'm interested in the. welcome across the uk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to munge we're discussing israel's recent elections.

ok i want to go back to getting an intel of eve i want to continue a theme that you start in the 1st part of the program here. if it's we heard from our other guests in tel aviv. the legacy of benjamin netanyahu might have damaged the israel's democracy i think a very strong argument for that here but you point out it's the end of the 2 state solution so i will ask the very obvious question and it's a question that israel gets furious about on the international stage and i suppose even internally that if there isn't a democratization that includes arabs that are israeli citizens then you do have the word that they hate apartheid now how do you square that circle go ahead gideon . it is very problematic to talk about israel as a democracy when you need. half an hour away from the studio that i'm sitting here . exists one of the most brutal military. today

so we're in the 20 hour without the 30 hour and it's an occupation by all means no it was labor which started the it was labor which established it was labor which put all of the power and the said. and the means to become no to contemporary federal mean about the permanent federal me no so 1st of all it's really problematic to. about israel as a democracy even now now israel claims that it's not an apartheid state because the. law of israel is quite a democratic law there is a parliament palestinian israeli palestinians are part of the parliament or this is very dies it is true partly for jewish citizens israelis a liberal democracy an attorney out tried to harm this but by the end of the day we are playing whose words because we sold the respect to the democracy the only

democracy in the middle east which refers to me as a privileged jew in this country if half an hour away from here people are living without any rights over 50 years now what kind of them across is it's a joke it's not a democracy ok it's going to go back you know seen in tel aviv i mean is it under is this one of the legacies of netanyahu is that the 2 state solution is over so if there is no 2 state solution then there is a one state solution can israel's political right deal with a one state solution or are you going to be just like jared kushner and just pretend they're not there go ahead and tell be well they're a year from now probably would not be around. secondly israeli still is solidly of vital democracy. obviously the result you patient alongside the israelis democracy i don't think he needs story where are eerie very.

moved and 1 i i would say that's not the end of the 2 state solution but you need. to put all that label on israel for the occupation and for their wars it's wrong you need 244 x. 4 an agreement the palestinians for many many. year is lloyd's dying many times so if we are very new beginning maybe dairies it all change and i think it's a good it's a good sign did you always going out ok philip we were talking about the 2 state solution i mean and all of this goes back to which i think at the end of the day my personal opinion it was just a con job that's how it's been worked out and i'm not giving any kudos to the palestinian authority because i think that they were actually. they were actually

involved in seeing it failed that's a topic for another program but the united states has not done the peace process no good because it is basically dismissed it is if there is no conflict again this hope concept of just dismissing things away and then you don't have to deal with them i mean what. gave netanyahu is extraordinary all of it against international law by the way that american citizens are never told about in the media i would say that you know passage of american administrations and particularly the trumpet administration has actually hurt the prospects for settlements. for example the conflict between israel and the palestinians go ahead philip. well i think the united states has of course the the 600 pound gorilla in the room the fact is that since. the reagan administration or even before the united states has been lined up completely on the side of israel so when people talk about the peace process or

peace negotiations here you have one immensely powerful state of israel backed up by the united states debating issues with the palestinians who have no power at all and are also under occupation so you know this whole thing is a farce that's been acting out my personal belief is that the united states is singularly at blame for what's been going on the united states long ago should have acted on the policy that it claimed to support which was opposition to the israeli settlements on the west bank and never did a damn thing so the on the contrary we have an ambassador david friedman. in israel right now who was against the law against american law providing support financial and otherwise to the settlers and so this is you know this is this is

ridiculous it's a farce of high order donald trump is just acting out what every other administration has done obama did not like netanyahu clearly enough but all he could do was abstain in a vote in the u.n. on the settlements and he gave he gave netanyahu 3000000000 dollars plus every year which he didn't have to do ok feel about maybe just one kind of qualification is that the united states had a partner who coud partner that they had a partner in a party now within a state i would say because if you look at that the neo cons circles around the united states they ate their starts with they are ok maybe i'm quibbling here gideon earlier you were disagreeing with our other guest in tel aviv why. because they seeing that after having 700000 settlers including east jerusalem there will be never in israeli statesman who will be able to evacuate them and without their

creation you don't have any viable palestinian state you have been to stance but you're going to have a viable palestinian state the minimum would be the $67.00 border and the $67.00 borders are in raise from them a long time ago and continuing to talk about the 2 state solution for 52 years while israel is doing everything possible to prevent it by the way there was never an israeli prime minister who really meant to put an end to the occupation all ways and means to an ease the situation and to gain more time but there was not a single israeli prime minister who meant it seriously and there was no american president ever who really wanted israel to put an end to the patient would it be i think we wouldn't have been there anymore so all together there was a coalition no matter who was the president there are tory exchange but no

american president president really took measures against israel in order to push it to put an end to the patient no israeli prime minister put an end to the settlements project and as long as those 2 things didn't happen you can take all those talking seriously except of lip service says by the end of the day we have now 70700000 settlers one of the more powerful political groups in israel nobody is going to evacuate them you have just to travel along the west bank and see how it became israeli this is irreversible and instead of continuing to talk about something which will never take place we have to start to talk about the 30th ok you're saying go back to you in tel aviv so what is the alternative i've already talked about the single state solution because that's what you're that's the default position now what do you do

. well i don't i don't accept. you to toss all the blame to accuse israel is the only called for what is happening it's wrong these rebel. conflict has been. cultivated by due to site publishing is and days israelis that's that's why well i mean but but but that wouldn't you agree that the 2 sides are not of equal power i think that's pretty. obvious agree with you when israel is the occupying power so it's obviously stronger but things are changing their reality me the least it's completely different the arab states don't care about the palestinian issue the arab states are much more concerned that these this sort of states are much more concerned that that doesn't. ok just because the arab states think differently doesn't mean the

palestinians only have a right to self-determination philip let me jump in because i agree i ok i accept their force and the nation you'll be the i didn't say that but to put all the blame on the israeli wrong if he doesn't lead you doesn't lead us to a solution ok well philip cooney we're all rapidly running out of time but it is the united states that is allowed israel just to kick the can down the road the you know the united states if it was determined enough without the influence of the lobby and even jello coals and all that kind of stuff there could have easily. pointed israel in the right direction in israel would be a safer place and so would be the middle east i would argue ok one minute let's go ahead philip. ok it's very interesting i met a congressman a couple weeks ago and we had a discussion about this and he said you know things will change only when the

united states treats israel like it treats every other country and that's why i believe if the united states from the beginning had applied the same standards it was applying to south africa the same standards it was applying to other places where there were agreed use human rights violations then the united states might have actually done something about it if the united states were concerned about actual american interests in the middle east it would have done something about it it would have pressured israel to change its policies but that hasn't happened israel lobby is extremely strong and we have a president right now basically who feels it is but it is easiest it is most profitable for him as a person who can deal with the status quo and that's a tragedy for americans for israelis and for palestinians couldn't have said it better myself here a lot of a lot is ahead gentlemen the government in israel new government israel has an image of stablish here many thanks to my guests in tel aviv and personal and thanks to our viewers for watching us here darkie see you next time and remember.

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