anymore it's much more broad based actuaries journalists priests isn't that actually a very good development that the russian society is finally becoming a subject rather than object of politics. if we compare protests and shias in the one description and protests in mosco we will see still that the pictures are quite different because in serious it's more like one of my colleagues foreign journalist a moscow characterized it as a green red or even green bro mating that this is actually these same social groups that support for example russian role in ukraine but they also care about the environment and in moscow for example it was pretty different picture it was yes it was not just what you call into intelligence it means old public noons those who have some quotes additionally critical of there are is those who control sort of symbolic capital like the language the humanities and so on and so on but they

were joined by 3 other groups 1st and them them the most interesting group and this protest moscow activist who participate in. different forms of when a signal governing they in war in actually in mayor's office agenda they try to make it better to try to fix things and they realize that actually. the stated doesn't want them. and sometimes i think it's really about the city who doesn't want them and they are as mayors of mosco to number of stores as from when the simple government 6 years ago he initiated the war that sort of going to simple councils and his idiotic and being as the mayor of moscow who employed saatchi disproportionate force on the streets of the city and then many many theories.

circulating in the capital about who and why i made that decision to use force in much larger numbers than ever before what's your version of it was it was sort of a snuffle it wasn't person planned because. maybe july 4th until july realized that mayors of moscow just wanted to punish so-called opposition for spoiling his agenda because one of his most one of his biggest interest was to see some group presented itself until a gentle like on the for their midst in most closely to do an author of the few worst complained of. actually can be no hate speech and social media against her for for her care for supporting the mayor's office she. left the race office at my has decided to punish the opposition he didn't realise he as far as i know they didn't do any political calculations that for example we can spread the opposition

but one can say that all due respect you cannot issue direct orders to. national guards by law there are 2 figures who is to give orders to nation will guard. first its head of how they call it a regional and a terrorist both or it's a unit ofa nation lenda service committee and it's the head of f.s.b. in moscow you know in general that if you had any 2nd person is mayors of moscow so you know so i did all of that he doeth said well of course you can you can not you can not use such a poor result having good solutions in the security council not in kremlin i wouldn't say in kremlin because the all domestic politics departments of common trying to stay sight of all of the of the of the whole story so i think. as far as i know 0 mayor. had some visits and grown men not just in prison but the head of his administration or of course cast for had he asked for help and i don't know

whether he asked for political help or for physical force in the end we saw what we shall now you yourself wrote about how the relatively low level of political of reps russian is one of the redeeming qualities of the current absolutely system and . this is not because the people who operate dot system are particularly soft hearted i think that's because they understand you don't 3rd law very well that any action is bound to produce an equal and opposite reaction why do you think they decided to sidestep it this time around the didn't have public support a moment businesses are started if you screw the population just doesn't interest them like that if you know what this point down it means that you can go further it means you can not bring more troops and then more troops it means that you have to negotiate somehow what i see you know. what happened this could also have been

a good it's a part of negotiation it's no win their negotiation sauron table where kremlin purdon moscow part and the opposition are gathering together no but it's a smooth i'm going to go sure we can if you if the shipping of case is important for you we can release the 4 students cases and we're going to release them it doesn't mean that they stopped the offense on the on the and there's infrastructure they know they're playing politics now they're doing what they're supposed to what they're supposed to do like 2 months ago spread intelligence or from the wildly spread no i mean from those most core activists who actually don't support a lot of what they just saw that they have their money. going to support representatives and then go out to even to run. but even from knowledge playing politics defied elections produced such a counter productive result for the at least for the most come a are i thing is one silver lining in this whole story it also shows that at least

as far as counting the votes goes it's relatively fair otherwise all those systemic position parties like outlook and the communists would have gotten into the city assembly isn't that actually a pretty conspicuous slap on the wrist of the. those who advocated the use of force especially on the eve of the 20212024 that is in doubt approve an early task that if you try to employ force you will get the opposite of what you want. we i haven't heard i've never heard about any force can iras and 2021 i'm in a recent i've heard worse about their regular politics we do number of fugitive met a question like future do not approach the governing party. should we should be elect state duma as done with politics or zoom off territories did they do or how

you design the bridge. force wasn't an option actually what they realized. the technology of protest. shearing reputably and they are actually. they delayed in their reaction so like the smart folks won't know what to do and if actual business and think that the state did numerous number of what is it isn't that actually no vile me who did that because. we have to explain our viewers that why is my smarts boding we we mean his call for his supporters to support any known crime and it's a line across the board but to killer candidates we has the you know the airlines with the crown land. too. high probability 0 win and north allies if you know of on is created or is it part of a broader trend in russia of the growth of product as it's purely just you it's

purely the why the credit cards keep build the device or for using the what we call affect the effort to action or using it in the racial way but you can see it the same exact happening in other regions when of ali's. activities nadab friends and i think that maybe also occur weighted with the growth of national make this a distraction it's going to same thing in regional politics the part of the brand such as brands like the governor can can be elected as a member of for sure and off the party turned to united russia then turned to communist then run as an independent i mean in regions it's not it's not about the party brands it's about the place between the federal center and local it's in moscow it was a pretty different thing because the vote in this task was to say that i can be a broker or you approach it i can build a frame i can build a device that your protest would have

a real result not in terms of electoral being off your candidates but in terms of hurting mayor's office and the mayor of personally. and for actually one of the valleys tactics and i think he's very transparent about that is to diligent demise all existing institutions both local and state institutions as far as he's he and his supporters are concerned there's absolutely nothing good about the current system it has to be destroyed and built from a blank slate given the russian historical context isn't it inevitable that such a stance will be perceived as not just a threat to the security of the state but a threat to the whole survival of the state there are 2 in their rooms on the table there is considerable what we call go blue groups who say that we're supposed to organize. back to a phone call like it happened in spain which most of the other together the opposition was all of those out of the witness court and so on and so it was

supposed to draw. road that. new liberals liberals their agenda is simpler. so that the whole system is rigid corrupted and should be replaced. you cannot say that replacing belittle system means. to medically replace the state it brings him on the age but if you if you are what we have we have legal mechanism of changing constitution we haven't used them for 20. 6 years but actually we have in the constitution i don't think that no one is agenda is too diligent and the elections are as old as yourself since i'm talking about dili just amazing all state institutions there's he doesn't recognise anything but i just proportional use ritual force is the same thing it works the same with dillard's it because you see there's a there's a there's a gap between something which is legitimate to something which is legal listen

you're such a force is legal but it's not legitimate according to how full freshens population i think. unfortunately at least claim that they're acting within the bounds of the law reach which is quite questionable my question is different i agree that the vollies extremely helpful in terms of keeping tabs on corruption and holding politicians feet to the fire but when he calls for burning the entire house down for the change of the constitutional order i think he actually does call for that it's not illegal it's i would say is that not only i think i was very closely behind bars i would say it loud and clear until we have in constitution a little window to change that constitution it's not illegal to call for change the constitution i'm 100 percent sure that to the existing law enforcement management he's a major threat they see him as a major threat not just as

a disruptor as an existential for yes somebody who can bring the stay down my question to use them why is he still bulking of walking free when the same system is doling out very harsh test sentences to people like the listing that i would like this proves. he has an ability to mobilize. support when he's in personal cars so this is what you don't know if you're still selling the bill is a sow's institute and yes putting him behind the bar would bring you now in my estimation 6 to 60000 men on moscow streets in 34 hours consent and we have to take a very very short break but we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned. 50

nobody's done it's going to be a group of any one s. mother that it still knows that visit didn't even have a lot of protest it would not even people. they all see themselves as dying swans in their dreams. but only one in a 1000 will ever make it to the top. they're ready to give their lives for the chance to die on stage if only once.

not even broken wings computer. for generations at the moment ski theater ballet sweat and tears oh no it's here. is a tense situation in venezuela is still all over the news the problem in venezuela is not that socialism has been poorly implemented but that socialism has been frayed only employment from the inside venezuela things look different we're going to announce sanctions against the troll is to venezuela associate famously have a son of the moment those who flew down but since that political battle song oh yes the people are mad the fact of the moment the focus of the hose story isn't new nixon called in henry kissinger to tell on that it would not be tolerated that in latin america an alternative economic and social system could take

hold and therefore the policy would be to make the chilean economy scream so wants now making the economy of venezuela screed. welcome back to worlds apart that constantine gossett nonresidents color at the carnegie moscow center consented as we already mentioned all the climbers surrounding the moscow actions is only partially about moscow it's primarily about the upcoming elections and transit transit of power in 2024 year old dad the final dad president putin owes to the country is to you freed as much as possible from putin is the system that he himself created ah there any signs of

dodd already happening no no the marc rich. marc raikkonen is. proving that a liberal as it used to be for last 20 years oh oh what you see in politics that's texaco shifts mostly reaction on situation where you still don't see as somebody who can relate to somebody who 10 shots or image of the future like because in the promo but at the same time and you're one of your recent articles you sad that on the one hand putin has been using brute force to rule the country but on the other hand he also. claimed no one fears the presidential administration anymore brute force that no one fears isn't there a contradiction of terms no of course not because of all administration there are going to and presidential sources. go much further than that worth of ministration

can do ministration as a political broker is broken we don't see any form of cording nation between the government and the presidential administration that all can also call direct that all can be. yeah which was. brought by the ministration and. didn't have any clue about the law it doesn't work is about equal rights activists of the government is one thing how people relate to that is another thing and in russia traditionally the presidential administration is considered the main political institution was all that was shot. through the euro i haven't seen numbers i mean in russia we have the structural institutional that's the president personally the figure the face then we have a number of proliferated images we have popular ministers like overall for example

foreign minister or we have a number i think like sure in percent of russians it is just don't know what presidential administration they have ok even with these sexual figure as you call it deprives them to also claim that president putin quote has lost he's let a ship now that there is a decline admittedly there is a decline in his approval ratings which some would say was to be expected given the very unpopular retirement age reform but. has lost his leadership isn't that a beat over the top for a statistician like yourself i mean you have to base it on the numbers and the program is not in a single digit roebling 00 bloom problem is that it was doing glistens life in the for us in texas and the original i used the tour it's very street concept i can mimic he is not the person who's not the figure who can assure the russian society that we have a future and we're going there 1st the main 3 groups that the sea main shifts in

public opinion lack of trust declining of trust all public institutions short there too of period of planning the period the standard period of planning for for example european family even us eastern european family 5610 years in the in the russian you know like a dam makes trying to compare societies to the russian society i mean given they said if you're serious these eastern europe and russia you can compare to its nose in europe that is part of the european union is saying it was part of the european union just for 15 years now come on you're comparing apples and oranges consider. this tell you that russia is much better than russia is and you're going to need this in russia they are going to go as big or 3 or 4 years ago you also rode 2 for putin the period of time since 2014 has been characterized by and i'm quoting you here the gradual loss of strategic initiative and this is

a very common assertion among the critics of the kremlin but i don't understand what. initiative is supposed to be making live better or at least managing it as it is a good deal of the people for there is masses doesn't that qualify as there is no inside interest seeing as people in general. what happened was what so-called russian middle class before the crisis and i was in a we saw growing. middle class office managers freelancers those who work general in service know who's a russian middle class. civil servants celebrex social work. on a budget payroll those who have early retirement like celebrex considering this is changing the fabric of this is very well but it's a broad try and around the world let's do this living standards are falling in the united states in europe including old europe in turkey when i haven't i haven't

seen you know us a story this trying to replace the works locker or war or american worker with american cop i haven't seen this i haven't seen that for example a pentagon or president from goes publicly saying that people want to. like double the number of f.b.i. employees that what happened in russia. happens in scales where the very nature of so chill for break is changing by the house's wonderin just $42000000.00 people and it is true that per capita russia has more law enforcement officers than most of the of the large countries but you cannot replace everyone in russia with law enforcement i mean that you are exaggerating not exaggerating in terms of who are the russian middle class now but let's let let's go back to 75 percent of g.d.p. produces state controlled or parra states or part of states corporations it's not

my stimulation it's just a nation of invention the mines are a far more away and so on. there's too much state in social fabric and economic for breed there's too much state and there were going back to my question about the strategic initiative. i think for what putin sees as you can issue. a couple of national projects that he put forth as sort of the at. of growth and i know that you. view them with i guess quite a lot of contempt is that i'm sure you know that some of them pretty important. don't they qualify as strategic initiatives. some of them. are supposed to change the way. work. for this state works how people leave i think that that was what doesn't work then why

is that not working because we have this sluggish growth over income for us. we know and then know pretty well that when you pull one group book money from state virgin into record i mean how much do we get in g.d.p. lessons. from my own life i don't know if you're aware of that but if you days ago older vaccination records for most children were digitalized and the judge read him like a big thank you but it's a huge thing for me as a as a mom over all the small key it's freeing me off the rest tape if i ever end up with my kid in the emergency room doctor will give doctors a chance to assess his health better isn't died a small dot is making you live in. your work of the government with the national priorities and our experience our feelings about the future

because when you're saying about there hold the same if i call you know if i say that it's normal that you have a digital right to operate your ex and your kids direction nation online it's pretty annoying maybe pretty normal but it took a lot of time and a lot of money to put that in practice yes no it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't say the government doesn't doesn't deserve the credit for that it's normal for government may deserve the credit for 2 things but i mean this is just one example damage and the quality and poor that's that's the agenda over the actions of 20202024 so forth they built a pretty modern state they have. competent. they're all of very smart people deputy prime minister there's a lot of and so on and so on and they locally they can make things better why should they give me give them credit for small improvements the big improvement is . a rise of a living you know this is this is big improvement this is important to everybody

and it's just 7 or whatever well you know it's other can kick in here can he fight for it it can fight inequality can he boost economic growth can do. well the 1st i can assert it doesn't mean that his state is fully unaffected i've never said that state can be effective they can do very effective reforms but it's not an agenda well i guess it's a difference between seeing as half full or half empty russians tend to be more risk averse than the westerners and i think many people when you and counter something that wasn't there before you tend to appreciate that a bit more than perhaps and i mean the you're smiling but even you know on the for the master who whom you manage she's a non-state actor who managed to put in an entire system of palliative care that beach was never in russia and she's now given

a mandate to expand across the whole country is that also a little thing i mean that's absolutely because it doesn't change he doesn't change . the way how you treat all minority groups says nothing about their weight how you treat the general population how you see the whole of the general population that ends up in those hospice is that the general population sends up and those hospices because of many many reasons but the general population raise a lack of income and huge more money. absolutely dramatic and the quality and then you say the state oh most somebody maybe so and so it's a question of what i'm saying is it something ok thank you thank you to saying thanks to a person who thinks that but it's not it's not it's not the reason for a plan so that reason for all plus but i think it's a reason for

a cautious optimism and i think what i've been trying to argue throughout this program is that the decrease of authority on the part of the presidential administration may be compensated by the increasingly empowered civil society not only on the streets but also taking part in the you know in the fabric of social life but consenting we have to leave it there because we know for a short time i really appreciate you being on the program thank you thank you. i mean as can keep this conversation going in our social media pages as for me and the team we hope to see you again same place same time on the worlds apart.

from the big pain your existence crossed started 10 years i think it's time to shake things up maybe change the branding maybe the format here is what i've been thinking about next season related episodes filmed on an island 10 experts cited out for a trophy what do you think ok a more affordable option 25 text birds. and one red rose another suggestion geo political jeopardy parody no political cookout where we will literally wrote the elites. late night show it's a rare format these days and it's cheap all you need is an old microphone in a printed banner but to leave me with them i guess i can do this candle after politics 'd gone wild like music. ok crosstalk is not about

hype it's about meaning 10 years of talk and still going strong. peter if you want to change something why don't we get rid of the bow tie you know that is too much. they all see themselves as dying swans in their dreams. league. but only one of the cells will ever make it to the top. they're ready to give designs for the chance to die on stage if only once. not even broken wings could do to them. for generations at the madrid ski theatre ballet switch into his own artsy.

in the stories that shaped the week here on our team tensions escalate in the gulf with the us something troops in saudi arabia and imposing new sanctions on iran over tehran's alleged attack on an oil facility. more chaos in hong kong where anti beijing protesters clashed with police respond with rubber bullets and tear gas. deadlock in israel after a 2nd election failed to give any side a majority to form a government of both prime minister benjamin netanyahu and his main rival vying to lead any coalition. and thousands of children as young as 5 have been held.