it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. us republicans ask why intelligence agencies drop the rule of whistleblowers must possess 1st hand knowledge in the run up to the trumpet ukraine revelations. world leaders gather in paris for the funeral for the president jacques chirac who died last week aged 86. on the university of edinburgh comes on the firefighters to a so-called anti racism conference white attendance from asking questions during the q. and a. the latest on those stories do you have over to a website called the stay with us well if you will talk show but again nicky our will be with you. to bring you all the latest news.

hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered. from calls for trump's impeachment to the saga known as political elites appear to be terrified of democracy and the people's will also should we lament the passing of the new liberal order. cross talking some real news i'm joined by my guest robert bridge he is a r t website writer we also have dimitri he is a political analyst and editor read in his to me internet media project and in london we cross to marcus papadopoulos he is the editor of politics 1st magazine original uncrossed up rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want

and i always appreciate as usual go to our guest in london market square i'm glad you're joining us today look i mentioned in my introduction the impeachment proceedings the. they're starting against trump and talking about brags that but there's one theme that kind of ties them together and it is my sense they do these political elites across the atlantic and in the u.k. they really want the status quo to be maintained they don't want to lose power and they are terrified terrified of the people's will they want to undo a referendum in the u.k. and they want to oust a legitimately elected president of the united states by extremely dubious means as we speak marcus your thoughts. well 1st of all we must be clear that the american and british establishment comprised of conservatives and liberals and they are as the coasts if as each other and they are as dangerous to international

peace and stability as each other and it is abundantly clear that the liberal elements in america and the little elements in britain is refusing to accept the will of the people in america that we have a democratically elected president mr trump one that seafarers and 16 presidential election fairly and squarely yet the liberal elements in the american establishment is doing everything within its powers to try and bring him down if we cross over that's a britain the liberal elements in the british establishment is doing everything that it possibly can to try and the rail dresses and now to try and bring down or stunts and that is at its terrible terrible fret to democracy in both america and britain but there's another point we have to also recognize that donald trump

and boyce johnson are part of the american and british establishment yet they aspect really don't trump in his election campaign 3 years ago pledge that he wanted to drain the swamp well excuse me how long was donald trump's women in knots one thought in the gossip boys johnson over stumps and is really no difference here acting no differently to how his predecessors acted and in regards to joe biden and his alleged involvement business involvement in ukraine peta i can quite easily believe that joe biden abused his position walk a lot i certainly i certainly hope we'll find that out because that there's a lot of resistance to that ok because he is the. face of the quote unquote stablish mint that wants to take on trump who is also part of the establishment here it's about maintaining the status quo robert this is what they're afraid of they're afraid of losing power it's not about principles it's not in their mind

it's not about ideology dimitri bobbish would disagree with that and we'll hear from him in a 2nd but it's about maintaining power they preach democracy but they don't practice it and they're afraid of one thing i think you have to remember is the context here though. what's happening in washington d.c. right now is the. donald trump appointed bar marcus says that they're not trying to drain the swamp i would disagree to a point it hasn't happened yet it might not happen he might be right but in may of 2019 trump appointed bill barr and john durham to essentially drain the swamp ok they're going after hillary clinton they're going after the top guns in the democratic heart of what we hope for here i know you appearing about we keep hearing about it and it's the news is out there actually it's not out there you never read about it in the mainstream media and i think a lot of americans would be surprised to know that the democrats are actually under

investigation there's a huge and now it's interesting if you would do this if you google that bill barr would you come up with he's implicated in this whistle blowing 'd scandal ok but don't you think robert i don't want to go directly into the ukraine great so quickly but since we're there don't you think this call for an impeachment is a distraction from the i.g. report and the origins of russia because i think it is i think there's a huge it's. great here the the the crown prince of western liberal ideology as a critic. well the point is there mr biden is rightly accused of corruption because what happened was that he did not just fire the prosecutor the way he. you know he he demanded he didn't fire him he didn't fire how did it happen he sat in the president's chair ready. then he addressed the ukrainian parliament saying in 6

hours my plane is leaving in 6 hours i want this guy out you know and the parliament and the government you know almost a week to shorten simply because by then wanted to that whether mr shorten was corrupt or not it's a big question you know again short and was appointed by this new government which came to power via a violent who you know with the support of the united states and the european union and this new government under leashed and civil war and what makes me specially angry is what are the democrats angry about trying to give them sound on time with the weapons you know the sniper rifles that anti-tank missiles didn't like going to be very clear here during the the in this conversation this famous conversation right now the president of ukraine did not know that trumpet had 2nd thoughts about since for example the money for army as it is to thank drum for seemed in the weapons so it was not so important for the landscape where the weapons arrived on

time it was in july you know so the democrats are strong over not saying these weapons for 2 months well what are these weapons these weapons were supposed to be used to kill people who went to the same school who watched the same television who lived in the same country for at least 203040 years of their lives and the democrats are just you know infuse that vote that i was extremely disappointed by the road dreher who wrote in the american conservative that these mine eat was actually supposed to help ukraine protect themselves no this mining in these weapons were supported well to cry i think i think iran should stick to conservative ideology because that's his good suit not former. doesn't know if there is or you don't know to go back to markets i mean that's a it's an obvious point here and watching reading western media about what's going on in ukraine they're just. they're blind or deaf because of

both they don't know what to say i mean it's really a tragedy but i want to go i want to go back to this anti. democratic. strain that we see in these elites here because it seems to me in the case of breaks it and in the case of the attempted impeachment of donald trump they're destroying democratic institutions because they're not going to be worth very much if they are so abused for the only aim is to gain power and to gain power by means that are not democratic and short circuiting democratic norms your thoughts marcus. well look as i said moments ago don't donald trump one that the 2016 presidential election fairly and squarely that is democracy people in britain in jamesy fails in the 16 votes it's a leave the that is not democracy by its classical definition but nonetheless

that's was the will of the power and therefore the conservatives and the liberals who constitute the american and british establishment should respect the will of the american people and all the british people but then pizza since when has the american establishment and the british establishments been truly a big can of democracy and they haven't and they are not go in so they are as bad as each other well you know if we were talking about joe biden and ukraine and i don't like apples or subjects or general peter if you were able to get sheldon adelson on the cross oh and by using your penetrates and analysis penetrating question and you could be able to get details out of him about how donald trump i suspect strongly suspect is abusing his presidential position to secure more business contracts for himself in saudi arabia and israel i do i would find that

very easy to believe in such a people wants to look at them and mark in and marcus and marcus i'm not going to disagree with you if it can be proven that the president of the united states is abusing his power show me the evidence and make it public and move forward here but robert did but this is not what's happening here because i think it's pretty easy obvious to say that biden was up to something ok i don't want to be libeled or sued radios not get something in ukraine here but the mainstream media doesn't really want to they don't focus in on it now i mean some think biden apparently did something in ukraine but it's donald trump's fault that's my mess. it just makes me think the this this when i 1st heard about it i thought to myself this is a perfect way to get the media to talk about what joe biden and his son hunter he's going to do that he's the user that loser in all of this because they will scratch a little bit because now they have to talk about it and if they go to impeachment

then this makes this makes the democrats look doubly desperate to go to this point to think if you had faith because. i mean to take it to this level where they're going to have to show and prove all these things about hunter what how he got his money not only from ukraine but from china we're talking billions of dollars reportedly one point of the 1000000000 judy have been 40 seconds go well just let me decide double standards here in me as we find out from the washington post senate that's what menendez yes reaches durbin wrote a letter to the prosecutor general you're able to go expression concern at the quote was you know for investigations that's that they said were critical to them you were probe so they can pressure the ukrainian prosecutor general not to show that it's very sensitive as a democrat that the crowds can demand investigations but republicans can't ok that's why the media won't back up that's why i say ideology is important here because the crocs you know the central liberal ideology these are the democrats in

that case all of the united that thought do you know we're going to we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion and some real news today. what politicians do so. put themselves on the line they get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president i'm sure. will somehow want to that's. actually going to be close it's like the full story in the morning can't be good. i'm interested always in the waters in the. first sitting.

in a world of big partisan movie lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the bath and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the troops the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. of. the world is driven by shaped by the curse of those great.

snow dares thinks. we dare to ask. and rob them to follow our lead comes out of the cold war to get out of the set up one among them. a far left turn lane t. they tell you not the high. we heard. that this month with the to the how long the show on the other side of. the most intimate.

that it is and when we did aboard. welcome back to cross talk we're all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing some real news. ok let's go back to london to change gears here i want to talk about russia's foreign minister sergey lavrov he addressed the general assembly of the united nations in new york and i really like to speech because he didn't mince his words if you don't if you'll give me a 2nd here i'll give you 2 quotes that i liked of the most quote it's hard for the west to accept that it's centuries long domination is diminishing another sentence here the west has been increasingly forgetting about international law and more

often dwell on what rules based order whatever that means ok marcus what's your major take away from that because it really was a salvo across the west bio about how the world is being run or not being run very well go ahead marcus in london. so roth is a magnificent diplomat and he delivers a magnificent speech and in my estimation he is russia's greatest amat after our own joy and he is absolutely correct that the west's power is waning it is diminishing but we must not get carried away by american global dominance or for medical very real military strength its cultural strengths its political strength its economic strength we must recognize that america is a superpower and american global about your west. is going to remain indefinitely but things are different compared to how it was in the 99 seats in the

99 sees america supreme russia was on its knees china was still progressing but today we have a very strong russia and a very strong china i don't necessarily believe that there is going to the world of eloquence of multipolar about i always believe that the wells will be comprised of the 2 superpowers lusha and america i don't attach much importance to the other great countries later i mean i think a very strong case could be made and it basically a topic for another program that i see are a bipolar world it will be a chinese han world it will be a competing west ok what the west will be made of but it comprises of is a different topic altogether and very very complicated but but robert there is and there isn't a recognition within the american foreign policy blob that multilateralism it is

coming into being i mean and i think this. this this explains a lot of the aggression coming out of washington in its western allies where i'm thinking about iran i'm thinking i'm i'm in because then. window the unit polar moment it might even be already close to ok we're in something different is coming about and that that accounts explains why all of this aggression because that moment to be able to do things so unilaterally is coming to an end and a lot of people more and more people are just ignoring the u.s. because the u.s. is isolating itself what do you think. well i don't think it's going to be possible to completely ignore the united states although i'm not saying that in a multilateral world that's still there and what we what we have going on now is that you see the united states military is just all over the place i mean if you look at a map where the flags of the u.s. military are it it's just red everywhere ok except. they're around and.

this is this is where this whole idea of you know pull the world and the multipolar world are clashing what's going to happen when when russia and china or also for middle enough to send fleets to latin america to have their bases there in latin america to start you know what the united states the u.s. navy is doing right now in china there are just the armada there is just amazing they've got the whole china china sea covered with all the islands. for now what's going to happen it's going to happen now how is the united states going to respond to this so this this is a very dangerous moment right now in world history because the united states is there's a are there power is waning i don't know if you could say waning but it's being balanced it's being balanced i mean if you have what's going to happen once once the turn really face russia and china on their own territory back you are likely to

russia have a diff slightly different game here i mean russia and china are purely defensive right now but they're not exporting ideology they're not exporting their model they're none of those things they want to survive as the old as the world order evolves and it's going to be very. unstable it could be in a reckless and i'm thinking of brussels and washington as they see their power slipping through their fingers you know what's worse about this is that the american exceptionalism see it reminds me of what. during the after the 2nd world war in eastern europe and said that the gay. means of socialism cannot be lost ok because that is what history has in one direction ok the burden is going to end so i feel that this is the same kind of mindset that you have with washington is that the the order that they created is the order that was ordained by american exceptionalism and the bolton the line ok that isn't true and that's

what makes it very dangerous if you look at that if there and i go with your proclaimed the nations that care it is exceptional the nonces did it for biological reasons why we are germans were blown to the record images and did it for ideological reasons the russian people is the 1st to establish government and so it's the greatest nation on the earth i remember that and and what happens now is that lover of actually it's not you he said roughly the same things at the un and he was even more spoken at the un i think 2 years ago when he said that we should law i would outlaw that i do or would you change and here i slightly disagree regime change is a tool it's an instrument into an instrument for achieving their goals there's so little talk about it because there's a regime change you can't see that it was. terrible because they look nice on the surface just like. goals also look nice on the surface because you know the

socialist ideals of the 19th century were absolutely great you know they were really humane but the way you study and treated them was terrible the same story without ideas no equality of sex protection of minorities this is all nice but when david cameron for example suggested that we don't send economic aid to african countries we do not recognize same sex marriage this is cruelty you know this is a good idea turned on it's on it's had basically you know protected in my early experience so it's not it's not it's not about that it's about hegemony battle that it's supposed to sort of fall into your commitments and once again it's not about us. it's about power and i was very quickly and and here you know and the story of gratitude when again you can disagree with or you can agree with a person on faux news who said that she was sick and people who sent her there were basically using it for their means to seek child you can disagree with that person

and you can agree but it was spotty could announce that he won't be allowed to speak on television you know that they won't invite him anymore and that was terrible because people should be able to express any thoughts that they. really regulating as a topic of a very specific program going to do anything ok this is going off for a bit but i think when we really see an ideological. face down he's going to be at the next olympics and i prediction ok american transgender woman is going to go compete against russian guy ok or man get bit confusing and the americans going to win or the russian will win whatever you from your daughter love to be there this is what your question and this is another part of the idea of ideological war that we really need to talk about and think about this whole idea of. i mean for example transgender this is something that is just

unheard of in this part of the world. so and it's and now the west is is they're going to start patrolling russia is being cruel they don't except these people and especially little happens in the olympics they said i mean this was just this is just one side would be hard to see what might work remember remember the world cup your team is too wide but they didn't know all the different ethnic groups that right just very quickly in all 5 seconds look how many derogatory terms they have invented homo force me so genius. that reminds me of cornerstone not just for who every opponent was at right is deviation is left his deviation iest bourgeois individualist buan nationalists they come. they conclave a normal discussion they must in some way to before they know it they're on to it and they can do that they do mean you and then you're not worth going to is going to go back to mark a different direction that i didn't expect there i want to go back to lover of speech what i think is interesting is that a lot of smart people people not in the mainstream picked up on his speech and

which is absolutely right he's spoken about this before but it doesn't get any traction whatsoever with the elites does it it's almost as if they didn't even happen but if you really want to understand how the international order is changing love ralph is one you should listen to i bet go ahead marcus. well the american elites and the british elites are of course not going to agree with what course that are set up but in private they are very alarmed by the growing power influence and confidence of both russia and china and that is why they are taking action that the moments to try and weaken of both moscow and beijing but on the other hand the americans and the british still remain confident piece if we go back to 2007 most of latin america had elected democratically elected left

wing and governments which want is a distance that country so america now look what happens the americans struck back most of latin america is again crow american today ukraine is and this pains me to say is in america's orbits and as each day as each week as each month as each year goes past ukraine the birthplace of russia is integrates and more and more in the west why do i say that because my argument is this american global power that western global dominance has of i need is a mythical it is so strong that it is frightening yes we have russia that is immensely important yes china which is soon celebrating 70 years of communism and has achieved extraordinary accomplishments it's strong but we must never underestimate what america is capable of doing abseiled lost it but they are

looking to strike back at you know i am sure we live in very dangerous times absolutely i mean given the met 15 seconds here guy agree with marcus that this ball is permissible but it is also blind and to pit and the story between joe biden and trump has shown that you know they want that they sprint out they thought that and it was a can a warmth but it is. it was that kind of ukrainian warps they saw is basically leaking up to trump i mean i don't know i know to run the show exactly and you know i'm not on the trail so it's also you have to trump that's how we end the program here as all the time we have many thanks my guests here in moscow and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time and remember rolls. join me every thursday on the alex i'm unsure when i'll be speaking to guest of the

world of politics sports business i'm showbusiness i'll see of that. one almost sure seems wrong but all in all just don't call. me. to shape out this day coming out to. engage me because betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. danny and by north it's so many people because they copy him he's so good that even such a bad cop is sending. i'm not guilty of anybody and. i'm

here to find the next guy. who looked up live on canyoning booting done the in philosophy that god she even done plenty of. the deflection move for the c.e.o. to say to the deflection board is comfortable saying. that is a god given that i got up to many observers. and he engineers are going to going to see a lot about that. that that he can bank on you probably get nothing like a. long long while and then he goes along the bottom there's a playlist which i don't think a lot of.