well welcome to worlds apart according to karl marx history repeats itself 1st this tragedy 2nd as far as but in the case of american politics it's fast turning into a sea of call and we not only the characters but even the situations remain invariably lock up another gave this time ukraine gave taking over washington is there still a chance of ever moving it had on the world's. problems well to discuss that i'm now joined by the meat that is so slow of deputy director of the center for comprehensive european and international studies at the higher school of economics in moscow miter it's good to talk to you thank you very much for your time hello nice to meet you now we're recording this conversation on the sidelines of the discussion forum which was set up as a serious academic platform to deal with the issues of global importance in the us

year after year those issues take a back seat to the twists and turns of the american politics and i'm pretty sure it's going to be the case this year too as much as we all like to talk about the changing world order the americans are still commanding everybody's attention and our enemy well absolutely. the u.s. for in the u.s. domestic politics the. stalemate that exists there is i think one of the most important problems of international relations because it paralyzes us for inform us a big signal it becomes the result of the domestic fight. secondly you know these jewel provisos of the global problems because the the u.s. is still the most powerful country in the world but instead of fixing other problems. its approach towards this problems becomes the result of the domestic interplay which of course does not. buttes to the stability or govern the

ability in the world speaking about this interplay and others you believe that not much will come on from this impeachment proceedings in terms of that intended goal then unlikely to take down but do you think they may actually work the other way around and solidify his re-election chances well i think there is some chance for a doc over abusing his prospects for reelection although mult very high chances for that you are absolutely right you know. even when the crime is obvious the experience of previous impeachments in the united states which were to actually shows that even in these situations it is unlikely to be resulted into the real impeachment because the senate snored the calls are representatives of the sides and there is the republican majority in the sound of and what is most important donald trump is supported by

a bald 90 percent of the republican electorate so i think no one from serious republican politicians would dare in these circumstances to vote against the president however of course the by the way thing the launch of the impeachment procedure is already the recognition of high chances for donald trump to be reelected democrats understand that it is very difficult for them to be truong you wrote recently had that the allegations against a much weaker than even those put forth against bill clinton back in 1900 why do you think the democrats are taking their risk because it involves one of their own every time dimension impeachment they imply joseph by them in their rather you know unflattering situation well for 2 reasons i think reason number one that the son of despair because indeed it is. difficult for the democrats to be trumped in the

current conditions they are looking for basically every plainsman 2 of the miller investigation miller of this to gauge and failed to prove them and they now looking for the other ways to steal accused trump of some crimes not just delusion with ukraine and the forceful. intervention of ukraine into american domestic elections but also something something else they need these sorts of investigations you know to pressure drop secondly this is an attempt by the democrats to charm the discourse of bold biden sort of all in. domestic politics and biden's corruption this iteration is very risky for the democrats i mean this. investigation of biden sort all warped world the russian mel's forewards world the reasons for biden's demands to get out of the former ukrainian

general prosecutor so they want to change you know their retreat from the investigation of by them to the investigation of the op i also heard one russian expert boyce a very counter intuitive hypothesis that i want to run by you he suggested that by launching the impeachment proceedings the democrats and the congress are trying to undermine not so much trying but there's a by himself and the establishment wing of the democratic party which as we all remember played somewhat dirty against the socialist the wing party in the run up to the 2016 presidential elections by openly disfavoring bernie sanders defined it clause above well i think so there is no unanimity within the democratic camp by the way this overall investigation and the scandal related to the u.s. role in the ukrainian domestic politics might circle the result into.

biden's defeat in the primaries them one of the most possible winners of the democratic campaign will be bertha saunders or perhaps elizabeth warren absolute the elizabeth warren which will be greater health of development i would say for the democratic party because indeed the the traditional democratic establishment ease the problem of the democratic party these still allows donald trump time and again to claim that the additional elite up there with it represented by hillary clinton and george of by them they want to reveal who wants to people's votes and basically the good more people's discomfort them and tired of the new liberal wallace's so i think it will be healthy to live for the democratic party if someone else wants the. primaries and that will be then the very interesting final election in november of next year also suggested that 2020 elections may be the

dirtiest and the fiercest elections in american recent history and stuff like their polling is how flayed fairly and till now i mean we have seen a number of methods being used against donald trump. sabotage open ended investigation now the impeachment proceedings any other tricks that he's opponents have been to use so far apart from physical harm and plain assassination impeachment is already i would say the huge wolf weapons of mass destruction in american domestic politics because that's the final instrument that you can use against the acting president and i think that indeed the elections will be most. in the recent american history because the stakes are incredibly high for both sides for donald trump this stake is not just implementation of his demise.

politics but actually avoiding prison and avoiding the direct groom in the trial because most probably the democrats would want to put him to trial if he's more longer the president of the united also for charges of the charges or for instance preventing you know justice during the meal or in this the geisha remember robert moore when he gave his the results of his investigation he said the only reason why the charge of all of. this to get food against normal trump is because he was the acting president of the overseas airport doesn't contain any so who had the advocates of trying to track them in it whatever they can come up with it would not if they could do that here is you know the democrats want revenge the democrats wants to depict trump as a temporary aberration they want you know to come in just. above him and it is easier to do it away a private citizen than the president of the united states so fort drum the stake is

q.'s personal freedom after all now democrats for the democrats the stake is voiding even deeper a crisis of the party in basic aliya the survival of the traditional elite it's the problem of survival for both sides because if prompt once for the 2nd time it will be no longer possible for the traditional leads to claim that prompts that the emperor who became president as a result of the intervention of an alien foreign. foreign country they will have to accept the nature all sense of this compound in the american society and all the problems that have been ignored for many years and actually which brought donald trump into the white house now you mention there were the words survival several times and historically there have been more than 30 attempts to kill and convent of former president 4 of the result that. the killing of the acting head of state all

of them are politically motivated without the venture into much into the reality of conspiracy theories do you think that method of doing politics is fully relegated to history or let's say foreign policy because i mean it we know that american intelligence agencies have conducted a couple of assess a nation at times including in a relatively recent history but not the massacre well my assumption is that these scenarios quite plausible. i can't i don't claim that there is a very big risk of donald trump to be assessed and they need that but we shouldn't exclude. american security services american counter intelligence and intelligence also waging war against donald trump right then this whistle blower who made this pleat against the acting president you know the. the resistance of the deep

state within the trump of ministration that it's all proves the drums campaign this struggle is not just between trump and democrats it's also between trump and the traditional establishment which is represented also and primarily by the security services by the bureaucrats they are using different methods to undermine the president from the outright sabat dog to these please investigate show me which basically numerous media leaks there is apparently a positive vibe about every you know coming out of some religious source of media leaks eve all these methods become in the fact of even the eve it comes out that all these scandals the minds of jewels of by them or the normal trump which are you think will be the case i won't excludes that the ventura leaves some more extreme versions of political struggle instruments of political struggle will be utilized while mentor before we are accused of being can spare. ferris let's take

a very short break we'll be back in just a few moments statement. more on how credible are. you. know. yes that is. you know world a big part of a lot of things and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the

stories that made stream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. welcome back to worlds apart with mitchy so slow deputy director of the center for comprehensive european and international studies at the higher school of economics in moscow before the break we started talking about impeachment which impeachment proceedings which already. prompted the 1st high profile resignation i'm talking

about with volcker you're used to direct the american policy in ukraine there are some signs that he was also directing the ukrainian politics in america how big of a deal is that well 1st it identifies manifest the depth of the scandal he's already accused of putting pressure against the ukrainian authorities and also he wants to emphasize the he has nothing to do with this pressure actually he personally and politically believed in the necessity of supporting ukraine against russia or. does he does not want to be associated with drums or retire it. or force putting pressure on ukraine secondly apparently claiming that russia is more important than ukraine and that is in the sort of egypt interest of the united states to get along with russia will receive green is

an obstacle so this goes against the political views or m.p. resigned but i wonder if it's just the matter of him disagreeing with the president because the same unidentified whistleblower complained about your. interactions with the ukrainian president. has suggested that mr walker was often acting not on the instructions of donald trump or secretary of state might compare his direct boss but at the request of the ukrainians for example the close aide to president selenski and the moc given how easily accusations of treason fly in washington does he have her reason to be concerned about the ethics of his own behavior rather than his association with donald trump the legal view point of course yes and what you just described is again proves my thesis that there is a very strong resistance among american bureaucracy against the policies. the

president and they apparently sabotaged and couldn't walk or was largely involved in this sub adarsh by pursuing. donald trump's presidency visit the ukraine. which volcker can see the right and which reflected the interests of certainly ukrainian politicians you know ukraine in its current state from the political perspective for you think volcker will be protected by the by the democrats by their establishment republicans which still exist because for them ukraine is the friend everyone who supports ukraine is also a friend. of the right will say. i think volcker will be excused right walter will be used as an instrument against donald trump it's interesting you say that because i mean they conflict compare this situation to something that happened to for example general flynn who was a man who was decimated politically for simply appearing at artie's dinner and

sitting at one table with live near put of a doubt even exchanging any any war it's imagine him running involved in trying to arrange meetings with u.s. presidents associates all be have of president putin i mean he would have been in prison. the end of his days well of the whole russia gate was artificial from the very beginning and it was a huge hypocrisy from the very beginning because law there is lots of foreign intervention into american domestic politics you know they could easily and it's legalized i mean there is and this is legalized lawfully to the law being absolutely again they can easily look at these rail loophole in the american domestic and foreign policy is right no well 1st russia is considered as adversarial pollo secondly the fight is not even 1st and foremost about russia it's against donald trump. because the presidency of donald trump

undermines the supremest to the rule of the additional establishment elite in american politics now while walker is departure at least the trumpet ministration pretty much without any senior official with the expertise in these part of the world i mean fiona hale codes. john bolton they are all god the united states still has no on baster in ukraine and the american ambassador to russia is said to resign within the next couple of days in october 3rd how do you take it does russia have reason to be concerned about these brain drain when it comes to u.s. policy in ukraine. on the one hand the departure of volcker could have played a positive role because indeed from the russian perspective the role of all code was apparently negative right walker prevented implementation of the means and

persuaded ukraine to continue to subsidize the implementation on the other camp in the current situation of scandal i truly don't believe that the departure of walker will matter for the american pull we see towards ukraine because there is no policy in conditions of the current scandal impeachment investigation the american policy towards ukraine will be paralyzed it will be ultimately dependent on do believe that goal domestic political interplay all the hue towards the impeachment in these conditions there is nothing that washington can or would want to do viz of ukraine i think the white house will try its best you know to be certain that sell from the ukrainian go in general does know the the absence of the interlocutor will change the situation to read the rest are going to celebrate it. no but was that you know for this into the local or to be implemented

but as it comes to russia well you're absolutely right the well 1st the role of domestic politics in american foreign policy is a problem for us russian relations and for international security absence of experts. negotiators experience negotiators on control on some of the issues is a problem of course for for us russian relations in this situation we well we have to strengthen the mechanisms of communication where still experts exist so what they are what i'm talking about we need to strengthen mil to mil negotiations. i think there you have you know actually very disease left they absolutely in the pentagon yes i mean we haven't seen multiple departures from the pentagon general gerar some of them general dunford they need on a regular basis primarily discussing syria we need to multiply and broaden the

spectrum of the discussion from just syria to our the flanks of us of us russian revolution not speaking off which over the last couple of months has made several russia friendly statements he offered to bring moscow back into the 7 than during his meeting with the landscape he suggested that the russian ukraine with. solve that problem together reach i thing. that may mean ukraine. all of us who seems a little bit less constrained on our on the russia track how far could it go well unfortunately the spog of ukraine gate limits and the potential for trump's positive steps. toward small scale you know from the very beginning donald trump did not consider russia as a natural enemy of the united states he has a strategic vision. which is that china is the arrival in the major

competitor and for basically of the united states not russia donald trump understands that it is quite difficult for the united states to successfully conduct this policy of dual containment of these 2 great powers so he would want basically to improve relations with russia as the secondary great power in comparison to china in his opinion in order to a little bit diminish and reduce the intensity of russian cheney's relations and thus simplify the brymer objective of the u.s. strategy campaign went off of china and of course he regards the ukraine conflict as an obstacle. trump was absolutely sincere when he said that russia and ukraine should resolve that issue in the ukraine should take more initiative in the

resulting in resolving that issue because that will allow some reparation mile with . the u.s. why did the woman from do with them because of the end of the ruler investigation right his ties were completely his cancer were completely tied when the moon list again was going on so he can see the end of that investigation allows some greater freedom of maneuver for finally to implement the policies that he wanted to implement from the very beginning however we have the new scandal right we have the impeachment investigation income in the impeachment investigation again shows russia as the enemy earlier this year you gave interesting talk at the center for strategic and international studies in washington in which he talked about russia u.s. tensions as a new cold war which has existential significance for both sides and which cannot be resolved through a compromise he suggested that it would only add to it one of the sides reconsidering its role in the world. what do you think it's going. to be. well i

hope that it will be the u.s. transformation the transformation of the u.s. foreign policy which in my understanding is already on the fold it started with the obama administration donald trump continues that with the other means but there's also the reconsideration of the u.s. role in the world i would refer you to the leader's speech that donald trump gave in the u.n. general assembly the manifest of this new approach well i think that the major challenge the do night is states faces is that the u.s. legs historical experience of equal coexistence with other great powers in the multipolar world while staying while staying integrated into the international order the american experience is either isolationism or global leadership now none of these options are acceptable in the united states should learn for the 1st time in the hugh story khalid to call managed into the national orders with other great

powers ease impossible to roll mild i believe at the back so the u.s. must and it does the way that trying in a very painful and contradictory way but the u.s. is a liberated you know lauralee despite its will but learning this practice of coal management of the world with in conditions of polarity and very quickly if i may you also suggested in that speech that russia's 2024 problem which is the problem of the issue of power transition from to his successor also very much depends on their kitten as of tensions with the united states how come how is it possible i mean moscow is so proud of its sovereignty and yet you're suggesting that the most consequential decision of a generation of will ultimately depend on its relationship with washington well i think that the international context and the u.s. russian of relations is one of the most important element. some of this

international context made a huge impact on the russian domestic evolution the historical mission i think of lot of the middle portion is just to make russia a great power again but also to make it illegitimate a great power right to compel the other powers to recognize and accept russia as a legitimate independent great power of global significance we are logged there we are in conditions of precisely the new cold war do knighted states still try to leverage the russia back into its strategic defeat into mind in mind this and be wants to transform russia both in terms of its foreign policy in the terms of its domestic politics these pressure of the us russian confronting. i think is impacting the russian domestic development in the very strong way in the that it will be a more difficult you know for for russia to manage its transition in conditions of

the new cold war with the united states if we have the acknowledgement by the united states by the west in general in the role as the legitimate great power what i think the 20th when to for transition would be much more smooth and easy and mourns while we have to live it there thank you very much for being with us today my pleasure i encourage our viewers to keep this conversation going in our social media pages and hope to syria same place same time here on all the part.

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join you. read only this morning north korea and the u.s. is set to resume stalled nuclear talks in sweden with both sides testing ballistic weapons in the days leading up to that meeting. a christian doctor of the u.k. fails to get his sacking up with an employment tribunal he was quizzed boss over the hypothetical situation of addressing a 6 foot. mother or the doctor refused to do so over his religious beliefs apparently it was fired because he was on that story coming up. conflicted fundamentally with his faith and also with his belief as a doctor we now live in a more open liberal tolerant society where people no longer have the fear they have to hide away suppress that we. can help.