french prosecutors say the man who fatally stabbed 4 colleagues at a paris police station on thursday was an islamic extremist. nuclear talks between the u.s. and north korea break down just hours after getting started with young accusing the american delegation of bringing nothing to the negotiating table also ahead. a brutal standoff unfolds in the ecuadorian capital as the government scraps of fuel subsidies to meet the terms of an i.m.f. bailout loan. and u.s. government approves it the sale 'd of millions of dollars worth of anti-tank missiles to ukraine. for the latest on these stories you can head to our team dot

com coming up a former spokesman for me is the guest i'm going underground and if you're watching in the u.k. political talk show is next with us. plus she returns you welcome to a growing underground special from the german capital burley and joining me is bring him from the libyan green resistance movement he's director of the center for african unity studies and he's known all around as he's spokesperson for the late fee thanks was going on going underground 1st of all i think you should have to remind us in what capacity you were the spokesperson for the late fee has right now we hear of continued warfare in what was once africa's richest pick up the country . well in 2011 my country was under attack

by the global of imperialist capitalism. aiming to stop the libyan project for african unity and african independence and i had the brave allege and the honor to stand tall with thousands and thousands of young libyan men and women to defend our country against this western attack and i was appointed the spokesperson of the libyan government i was the voice for the libyan resistance movement that time and i walked close leave with my colleagues and commemorates to represent the libyan point of view to the world i dealt with the international media for more than 8 months i held 3 press conferences every day under bombardment

but i wasn't alone i had the support the love and the expertise of thousands of young libyan graduates and media personalities and intellectuals who still after 8 years of the war was very hard to fight for the liberation of the country for the freedom and independence of the libyan people well mainstream media around the world called you a liar a mouthpiece for a regime that far from this well being about imperialism this was a regime that was organizing mass rape as a policy using vi agra chemicals to complete mass rape policies the massacre of unarmed protesters and you are basically a mouthpiece for air bombardment of civilians well in any position you take. there are 2 powers if you have on your side then you are proven as an honest party

the power of except limitation and the power of prophecy and we had both after 8 years everything we said to explain what was happening in libya proved to be right we talked about terrorism extremism tribal conflict western imperialist project in the country to rob libya of its well how does this excuse all. the power of prophecy because we talked about what things would happen afterwards the division of the country the continuous conflict. we have proven right on this front as well as for the charges which may wear 3 main charges the air bombardment of libyan cities which were which was a proven false almost immediately and the international media had to admit because

they came to libya and blood and is not something you can hide secondly the mass rape of 8000 libyan women the country has been under control of our enemies and the west for 8 years where are the victims and where are the convictions and where are the trials after 8 years they haven't been able to prove any systemic rape of women during that time and then you have the charge of killing 10000 innocent protesters in the 1st 3 days where are the names where are the bodies of the most they have been able to come up with 25 people who were killed in the 1st few days we say they were aren't some people saying they were not armed but 25 people killed is not 10000 it's very rare to be able to speak to someone who interacted with western mainstream media jury what you call an imperial

conflict what was it like being a spokesperson for the government talking to journalists who see themselves as impartial who complained you were reining in on the press censoring the war well we opened libya or the good part we controlled of the country at that time we were very transparent we allowed all hard questions to be asked i was a variable and the government officials were available 24 hours a day and we laid out lied to them no we never lied we always told the truth as of course we believed as we saw it and we responded in a very transparent. and i as i said the power of explanation and the power of prophecy are both on our side everything our enemies said proven false everything we look at libya now 8 years under the west's control and the west's asians

control what is happening in libya libya was one of the richest countries in africa one of the most stable countries in africa for decades leading africa's liberation libya was the head of the african union the head of the african european summit one of the most important countries in the world of being african economic projects such as the african central bank the african organization for natural resources the african unified army the african gold based currency and look at libya now it's a battle field for extremism for tribal conflict for western asians fighting for robbing libya of its wealth ideas of freedom and liberation and sovereignty well if these allegations were presented to populations in later countries as the reason for war were indeed false and you know the u.k. parliamentary foreign select committee in 2016 the the very high and well

researched and well funded parliamentary committee and britain came up with many conclusions but the main ones relevant to our discussion they said 1st of all the accusations against the libyan regime were either completely invented or at least exaggerated and they said there were many chances to avoid the war and to reach a peaceful settlement for which we called from the very beginning 3 main chances opportunities were available to avoid the destruction of libya the 1st one was sending in an international fact find. mission for which we called from the very beginning i mean i repeated their request for this every single day for months we even offered to pay for the costs of this fact finding mission although the cost of one party or 2 rocket that came upon the heads of libyan children could have paid

for the mission so easily no one listened to us we also offered to have an african peacekeeping mission to stop the fighting immediately and then lay the way for a national conference inclusive of all libyan parties the libyan government and the so-called rebels no one wanted to listen the libyan tribes met. in the biggest national tribal conference in the history of the country attended by thousands of delegates and they all supported the government initiatives even those who were on the side of the rebels but the west was determined to go along with the destruction of libya because this is what they planned from the beginning these request you to watch you on you tube from those years ago but of course we're also

10 years since gadhafi gave his famous speech to the u.n. to learn the anniversary on the 23rd of september. so what are the real reasons for as you see it of the war usually imperialism what what was happening that made according to you and supporters of the greek resistance movement it inevitable that nato nations are trying to destroy a country well afshin there is no doubt that there were internal weaknesses in libya there where internal failures of the system we needed to develop our political system our economic system to be more inclusive less centralised we succeeded with this in the seventy's eighty's and ninety's but in the war in the years leading to the war we made some mistakes we centralized the economic power we centralized some of the economic power because we were pursuing

a developmental program that was different to the years before but there is no doubt that this was not the real factor leading to the 2011 disaster in libya there had been a bra ject a pan african african project of liberation political liberation economic independence and cultural resistance not just an idea or a dream. it is informed by the continuous struggle of african nations throughout the decades and by the great experiences of great african leaders such as patrick lumumba. and then some and then very different to the ones but i was told by the world well how our plan was real not just dreams because gaddafi was laying down real plans and real project

for the control of african natural resources through the african organization for natural resources unifying african armies into one army called the unit the unified african army and the central african bank for which gaddafi was raising funds discussing with other african leaders the term tell me about the gold will libya libya itself is a small country 6000000 people but we had 100 than 80 tons of gold which is quite a great amount for a small country but to achieve african in the bend it cannot make independence khadafi it was hoping for $4000.00 tons of gold to be accumulated for the gold reserves of africa and upon that he wanted to build the african central bank to replace the french central bank controlling african

economies and to build up the african unified currency gold base to play with to replace the dollar and to build the internal organic. african economy and he wasn't just dreaming these things up he was hard working on them and he got the agreement of many good african leaders and he was in the process of actually achieving these goals like for example. the 1st african satellite was launched in 2008 and the 1st stages of the african central bank were initiated the african union itself was founded in the very city of sirte in september of 1999 the same city that qaddafi had to lead his last battle against the ready forces that hated the establishment of the african union

was able to stop you there was a lot of us break. financials i don't find any i'm on if you. think the flight. as of last summer by actually the future crocker was kaiser. in 24 you know bloody revolution. demonstrations going from being relatively peaceful political protests to be increasingly violent revolution is always spontaneous or is it always put me in your list put video dream in the neighborly as i knew pulling you to the former ukrainian president recalls the events of $24.00 g.

and. those who took. it invested over $5000000000.00 to assist ukraine in these and other calls it will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic. welcome back i'm still with was abraham former spokesperson to moammar gadhafi you see the british government the international trade department the british government and simulate about within nato nations say they share the goals of how you articulated the. scribing them to get a free they're interested in the you you claim actually they're more interested in the fact in helping al-qaeda and isis on the shores of the mediterranean well

this is an old british strategy i have to admit it has been successful and the british used it in their empire from the 19th century and then other other imperialist nations got the lesson they have been utilizing it very well it's the management of crisis what you do is you come to a context of a country and you introduce chaos through war through internal conflict religious division i.q. patient whatever means you have and then you keep the chaos going you manage the crisis because through the management of chaos you are able to make sure that this context is weak. it sub or donated to you you can rob the wealth of this context and then you can play the different factors against each other and make

sure that when the game changes it changes in your favor so sometimes you support liberals because they are your agents and because they belong to a certain set of values you want to bring vale but other times you think ok now we support islam ists like what the west did in afghanistan and what they did in iraq for a while to get rid of saddam hussein and then when the game changes they go ok now we stop supporting islamists and we will manage the crisis in a different way we support an army general or it's a game that has been perfected in the war rooms of the western imperialist centers and they do it almost like. second nature now libya has been under the attack of the west for 8 years it's supposed to be a democracy now have become tree helped and saved by the west look at libya now killing. civil conflict tribal war murder terrorism rubbing

off national wealth what does the remind you that remind you of iraq syria afghanistan yemen it's the same story have billing every time and some people still don't see it for me this is absurd the truth is out there and it really pains me that people chose their hatred against someone like duffy or saddam hussein. over the truth over what is had been in every single day for years and years and years but why is it taken you show a lot in the world talk to the media since the death of gadhafi well after the collapse of the country as leaders of the political military and culture of resistance against the western project in libya we have been politically

persecuted continuous attempts to silence us and to marginalize our split how did you survive even because there are reports that you were captured have loads of reports rick appeared in september to the level to which we live in generally to all any truth in this no no i mean we have always been in the middle in the heart of it. but we have been working underground inside libya and outside libya with many thousands of foreign leaders from all contexts and we have been leading the alternative for libya and we have been talking to our people our tribes our cities and we have been very successful only recently in the last year or 2 the political scene have changed positively namely the whole conspiracy against libya has been exposed and mentally from your perspective as we have

a british diplomat in japan he still had absolute faith in the un recognized governing the shore accord of course we have a lot of assume this is generally what exactly this is for me is where you position the green resistance movement sometimes when i listen to european diplomats and american i think ok maybe some of them are genuine people and they don't understand what is happening but sometimes you just have to say it out loud this is a. lack of more ality these people lack any decency when they say that how could you describe a country completely in chaos in crisis with killings murders and bombardments everyday with tribal fighting with militias with terrorism everywhere a country that lived peacefully for decades and decades was one of the richest most stable countries of africa and the mediterranean and you come and you say you have

faith in the national government or you have faith in the future of the here we enter into the realm of immorality of just plain indecency you know that people are dying every day but it's un learned the government of the enemy is controlled by superpowers the un is controlled and that what they do is they they are part of the game. of the destruction of libya where there are things that i say you might debate but no one can debate that libya is a disaster and when you look at the numbers of refugees tens of thousands of refugees drowning in the mediterranean since the death of gadhafi. what have you felt watching that on the news yes of course we are very saddened by the situation in north africa and the african asylum you see we had genuine

projects for the african nations around the north african region and the sad area to actually contain illegal migration and to build national industries and national economies so the african people do not have to rest their lives and die in the middle of the mediterranean sea but for all of the alternative liberation projects that we had look what exists now complete destruction of the internal structures of african countries of libya especially education system hospitals health everything and instead of the unified african army you have the africom the african american command in africa you have the french force the g 5 s. and western africa in a stage of the african central bank which would have served the refugees and the african nations you have the french central bank and instead of the gold based

economy you have the sub or the nation of african economies to the global capitalist machine it's all part of the same story even the internal problems that existed in libya beforehand they were exploited because this what impact does tragic irony that in death. you're being destabilizing european union countries because of immigration and the rise of the far right people have said that duffy was also not just a plan after africanist he was an internationalist he really did want peace and tranquility and development and poor poor. corp that's why he hosted and he was the head of the european african summit in 2009 and libya he wanted to build up africa but he wanted good relations

with europe he wanted to create a new world order of justice of peace of collaboration but this was so hard for the imperialist capitalist system to digest a lot of has been written about the racism involved in the nato mission in libya when you knew good of you and other ministers in the libyan government what it is say about why he supported nelson mandela well mandela was called a terrorist by the british government declared as such by margaret thatcher and her ministers was declared a criminal by many western diplomats and even intellectuals video has turned his support for his support for mandela who defected libya oh of course of course khadafi was very honest and transparent with us people who worked closely with

him and he said this he said to us make no mistake we are being punished for what we did not just for libya but for what we did for africa and many other developing countries and around that we are paying the price for supporting in some mandela for supporting the black race for supporting real politics of revolution could duffy was happy to fight until his death he knew he had many ways out he chose not to go out he was offered ways out even by african leaders who visited him during the war but he said if he goes out the very ideas he fought for will die in his death. his ideas will live and i believe. the ideas and the principles and the broader acts he lead will live on and we come back

with such power in the future if you say that but joe biden of course is going for the presidency next year leading democrat friends of hillary clinton what did you feel when you saw hillary clinton talk about gadhafi far from in those terms but the fact that basically. the real hillary clinton is a war criminal she knew what was happening in libya she understood and this was revealed in her e-mails that were leaked by wiki leaks she said very clearly that the charges against gaddafi where at least exaggerated and that the french where into this because of the libyan gold and because of their objection to what khadafi was doing in africa but she went along with it because she knew that with the collapse of deference libya they will have the states and europe

a greater chance of controlling africa which they did. the americans now have many many military bases and they have increased and intensified their dig for gold for your rainy i'm in one asia for example for gold imports enough fassel and for other natural resources the libyan oil and gas. and so the politicians they are nothing but servants for the machine. and they would deny being a war criminal and probably say she's being accused from the right of not protecting u.s. diplomats in benghazi but i have to tell you libya is synonymous with terrorism arguably to many ordinary people in later nations let's go to the area on the ground a concert in manchester what did it feel like for you when you watch the college on television. well of course extremely sad and it pains us that ordinary people in the west have to pay for the crimes and mistakes and blunders of their

government you see when you try to manage a crisis a crisis is by nature a crisis you can manage it but you cannot control it 100 percent sometimes it hits you back as a system because you are achieving your main. goals you have to bear these consequences and take them and as they come the british and the americans can very easily get rid of terrorism simply by just not supporting it not funding it not killing a thing it but they choose to go on these are not secrets i'm revealing to you in this interview this is known and agreed upon by owen factors but the west is aware that this is the game they are playing and they have to pay the price for it was abraham thank you that's it for this special edition of going underground we'll have more from was abraham only why they're called thanks for the libyan crisis

part 2 on monday feel that. he. joined me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sport that's less i'm show business i'll see that.