hello and welcome to cross town where all things considered i'm peter lavelle not long ago it was russia russia russia now it's ukraine ukraine ukraine what partisan hacks in biased media won't tell you is why ukraine has become part of america's political drama you'll only hear it here on crossfire. cross talking some real news i'm joined by my guest to me he's a political analyst and editor at innocent me internet media project and in london we crossed alexander material he is a writer on legal affairs as well as the editor in chief of the duran dot com all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you

want and i always appreciate alexander let me go to you in london i'm so pleased to have you india on the program here just the 2 of you because it gives you more time to talk about a story that is much more complex and longer than audiences in the west are being given by the mainstream media everyone is talking about the 2016 election well i would go a little bit further back and the very least i'd go back to 2014 with the illegal overthrow of a democratically elected government with the support of the e.u. and the united states now the predicate of all of this the larger the biggest picture of all is nato expansion is to bring ukraine into the nato alliance why because it will give a reason for nato we exist that's always been their mission they exist because they need to expand and if they don't expand they don't need to exist and of course the cherry on top of the cake is always it's an anti russian moot point so give us a larger picture or. or since they want of the word is very popular in the western

media give us the predicate of ukraine in america's political drama our head into what it can do you said peter that it goes back to 2014 it actually goes back even before because of course when the u.s.s.r. broke up ukraine which had been one of the big constituent republics of ukraine of the u.s.s.r. there was this policy of basically keeping it is distanced from russia as possible and this is linked up with this policy of western expansion of nato which the western powers had promised the russians in 19909091 would never happen but which starting from the mid 1990 s. it did so you saw firstly in 2004 there was what was called the orange revolution in ukraine which set aside the result of an election that took

place in ukraine in that year leveraged into power a pro western pronate a government that evicted yuschenko who was the president then in 2008 there was a decision made it to some unseen out of the bucharest. that nato would one day be expanded to include ukraine and georgia then of course that was another election a few years later which brought into power a man called victim janak oh the church who was to some extent more sort grating in a trial it see between. russia and the western powers understanding how close relations with ukraine between russia and ukraine were and then of course in 2014 there was after a period of very very prolonged. violent protests which were backed by nato

powers with leaders of the european union turning up in kiev openly supporting those protests. and who is the assistant secretary of state of the united states for european affairs turning out and handing out cookies to the protestors protests which it should be stressed were extremely violent and indeed in the overthrow of the violent overthrow of the democratically elected constitutional government of ukraine with the president fleeing the country and escaping to russia that route to power an entirely new government even more further at least committee it to integrating ukraine with nato and with the european union and the violent way that gov the government gained power and sought to impose its wishes on the ukrainian people that precipitated

a very strong and actually we could end that that part of the story with new ones words yet says the guy she picked the prime minister who became prime minister demon pick it up from there then we have crimea and then we have the crisis in the don vasco absolutely well i mean i just they're telling shower of western viewers what would the call an event in which $38.00 policemen i killed. 5 buildings in the center of the capital are burnt and then you have leaders from other countries from the european union you know the head of the europe john mccain diplomacy well john mccain ok he was important but he did not have a he was not the president he was not was not a wise president from the european union you had officials you know catherine ashton she came to kiev brokered a deal yeah and she shook hands with that had all the national socialist party a former head of the national socialist party of ukraine then called swab all the

old freedom all decked out in your book you had done the wrong pig come in to basically to the protesters who killed 38 policeman. and and what is going on now still in our will ultimately take us to crimea and take years to die basically are there some aboard the party headed by talking about and supported by catherine ashton during that during that coup in kiev they had it in their program that gray mean autonomy should be destroyed that it should be lifted so when the new government was formed in which national socialists took 25 percent of the seats they had their prosecutor general several ministers for the people including the minister of defense corps scream you decided to go to russia had actually didn't have to go to russia it was a part of russia for centuries see in 73 self-determination they voted to leave have saluted absolutely but the whole point is that ukraine is such

a cold skeletons for mr obama and for mr biden it was the mistake over the democrats' media in the 1st place to try to get trump in crane in ukraine you know what happened was that if they didn't pay attention to this whole story with a smile and with trump if only trump raised the issue with his precious little media no one would notice it in the united states but the whole democratic media went after drum because of that phone conversation and now media and sort of americans know about briefs much. of the content biden made moves in ukraine and they have big questions about it and in fact biden basically went down the water over toward that he created for himself you know the let's go back to alex here i mean i remember when political came out with the story about hunter biden and bodies were

in all that and i took notice of it it didn't seem to have a whole lot of traction you and i have talked about this many many times in the different venue and now it's a big story oh my goodness i mean. i think what is interesting to me that western media doesn't want to report is that american politics is in a very radical and deadly way entered into ukrainian politics in ukraine and in return is given a lot of corruption i'm not going to go just out there hunter biden no act isn't that's the way business is done it's all across the aisle both political parties people when there is carpet baggers to make a lot of money and it really you know what it did in the end it made things even more corrupt that's what western help for ukraine has resulted in since 2014 go ahead alex and that's absolutely correct i mean beat it can we just say that the great problem in ukraine ever since it gained independence from the soviet union has been corruption but of course after 2014 you had

a situation where corruption had been extremely widespread to a situation where corruption became the organizing principle of ukrainian politics because that wall's what the new ukrainian government that was installed in 2014 remember it was not installed peacefully or legitimately it was installed viral occur so that almost by definition made it likely that it would be more corrupt and of course overall it with lots of very violent men in ukraine many of them behaving very illegally now what then happened is you had this deeply corrupt system in ukraine vast sums of money was thrown out at the european union i said i think $17000000000.00 already is really i have that they are and they have committed to providing it with $25000000000.00 there was $3000000000.00 in it go

out x. where do they go back i mean ukraine is a poor country today than it was in 2013. in the fall this could wed so all this money when he. lost a round in assigned this incredibly corrupt system and of course inevitably you got all kinds of people who went into ukraine from the united states and europe some of the let's be quite frank about carpetbaggers who went in in order to make themselves rich because they're the opportunities to do so and this. you know corrupt it has a salutary alex but what happens when corrupt what what's happened also here is that because of this commercial in financial corruption it delves very easily into political corruption because ukraine is the epicenter of so much of what we call russia gate which by the way russia gave there's not much russia in russia gate but

there's a lot of ukraine in ukraine gate. and we're going to be a mother who had great paul martin for good point you know when we 1st arrived scandalous articles about him in the washington post by and have a warm august basically they all forgot to mention that he didn't do anything in russia he did everything in ukraine and go to the d n c and he was i'm sorrier but at least he walked on his specialty he was a political consultant he got millions for that but the bidens or chameleons for something he didn't understand here showing him because his father's name but he was his father son he didn't understand anything in their straight or in energy where did you come to buy them get education in energy star gets you know so the whole story isn't what i'm going to write or break for but i understand. knew a lot about pharmaceuticals and you know what i mean we're going to go to a short break here and after a short break we'll continue our discussion and some real news stay with our team.

join me every thursday on the alec simon show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm showbusiness i'll see you than.

15. years. on this commercial moment to laugh and ask for the last 70 anything and i'm interesting today for the match promotion commission. branches just shoot on disc in the. engine commando mommy. legion mom. in our new car so sad i'm not going to mustang new mama is just there are no.

one else chose seemed wrong when all rolls just don't hold. any new world yet to shape out disdain to become educated and in danger of it because betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing some real news. ok deamon the 1st part of the program we gave a lot of background of the. factual driven found in western media but

tell me how you see the media message about this ukraine gate in all of its various colorful characters what do western audiences missing or being misinformed well you know basically what i meant was that by became a victim of friendly fire from the democrats media they wanted to destroy trump one thing only it's possible they think they can get 2 birds with one stone and it remains to be seen but you're right basically if you look at the whole story they just snatched this conversation thinking that it would be pricey and lansky to investigate by them but what they heard was that skit was basically very subservient to trump you know saying that you are 1000 percent right you are my teacher you know and then they're american media and the european media or dismayed by 3 for what one thing for 5 years to a korean put yourself versus observing 2 americans look at your own videos how

perfectly stalk into biden were you to find into our. room where did he sit do remember that in the president's seat exactly and this year in georgia when a russian deputy came to georgia and there was a session on the author of the unity and he said as a chairman in the speaker's seat in the georgian parliament there was an auxiliary riot you know with crowds trying to take the parliament by storm and the western media justify it always you see you fly and with that in the e.u. and the. western media justified it they said that he the people had the right to get dismayed about someone sitting in the chairman's chair but what is the special maine about all of this situation is that the way the western media and the american media is covering the scandal with the you know the former prosecutor general basically we have an article in the new york times which is titled meet your you would sign quote ukraine's prosecutor general and 1st you know there's

a hate crime so much that they start the whole story with the phrase mr trump praised him in a phone call with ukraine's president no mistake trump praised victor short you know the prosecutor general whom. basically poroshenko ousted on an order from by that and we know it now from giuliani is with shocking himself so. they say now the new york times wants to tackle sankoh because woods or just a few months ago was for trump against the liberals and so they write about him a veteran of ukraine's often treacherous political scene mr olson could spend some time in jail before becoming prosecutor general but not all he is basically a bit all over reform are. heard there's so many enemy translator and they're

not real doing. what i have just read every word for he was a supporter of my done who had spent some time in prison under young for real corruption you know and then the us made while nice to him saying that he was a fighter for democracy he was in jail illegally together with yulia tymoshenko they spent some time in jail at the same time right and and know suddenly they write that he basically felt such a strong desire to improve his english that he went to london ok after the. ok so when you see it if you basically fled. yeah exactly if i could just kind of somebody up here we have 50 shades of corruption absolutely that's what i think we need to stray alexander but here is something come back to our corrupt they out people who are allied in nicely by the western media when you get really go to london alex i'm glad diem of brought up the telephone call. pads and skin we have the transcript has been made public i think that's

a 1st sentence unprecedented and i'm not sure if it was a good idea to do it but we'll see how it unfolds here but i want to go back to what demon had to say here here we have a ukrainian president and we all have our fingers crossed for him he got elected on a mandate of anti corruption which is the scourge of ukraine millions of people millions of people have left because of it because of the poor governance and the outrageous i mean it would make nigeria blush some of this corruption here because it's aided and abetted by western institutions and and politicians here but let's go back to the conversation or the transcript. of course as alinsky is going to be kowtow to trump in one form or another because he needs trump he says he wants to end the conflict in the donbass if trump can be there as the chaperone quote unquote it could be possible then he doesn't have to look over his shoulders at the . i kneel fascists that have levers of power in ukraine and

corruption this is where zelinsky the heart of his campaign was if he can get western institutions maybe the f.b.i. would be one of them though they have a pretty dodgy reputation right now what selinski wants to do is if he's going to take on corruption he's going to need outside help and i think he thinks trump is going to help him bring peace and start dealing with corruption and that's a good that's a good play for ukraine and everybody around it go ahead alex yes and with a great problems alinsky no faces if he really is serious about corruption is that of course the whole issue has now become an issue in american domestic politics so i gather he's already been won't mind the democrats that up to now support for ukraine and in the united states has been a bipartisan issue that he risks not making it all of more alex so are you suggesting

a quid pro quo is that what you're suggesting here is that what is wrong visit cuse dove but the democrats are doing it go ahead. well that's exactly what i'm saying and can i just add that apparently the russian prime minister mr medvedev has said that mr selenski is now caught between a democratic hammer and a republican and we'll he's going to find all kinds of people like mr lute saying who by the way demon discussed very well and who incidentally was the proxy rated general of ukraine ukraine's chief law officer and he doesn't even have a law degree and that's the kind stranger can actually. he's already now turning up is now ready to owning up in london apparently trying to undermine him because of course he's connections with the previous g we corrupt government so it's looking very difficult for mr zelinsky and this is the problem in the united states

talks about how he wants to see corruption end in these countries in reality it's absolutely happy to sacrifice these countries 1st to a giant geopolitical play against russia which is what we saw in 2014 now increasingly looks to to the pursuit of u.s. domestic politics none of this is going to help ukraine at all well western or western help never stops helping ukraine absolutely going to well basically i think their western media developed its own kind of language about ukraine which is completely distorted with a litle vital domestic what is it which you term you're going to get it here of a vital us their actual interest so i don't see how it's possible but they say it well they say that to ukraine is attacked by russia and their new government in ukraine installed by them in 2014 was going to be clean let me remind our viewers

that would sound call and poroshenko and shorty and they were all products or that revolution there. the united states supported wholeheartedly in 2014 it has no one but itself to blame for it the problem is that their american media and the european media keep talking about this vulnerable russian influence you know which corrupts clean ukrainian officials well i especially like the as the way that mr shorten in his conversation to giuliani with giuliani attempted to continue with the investigation but in or around june or july 2015 the u.s. ambassador in the ukraine geoffrey pyatt told him that the investigation has to be handled with wide globs this is a new kind of language basically sure can explain to giuliani that an investigation means invited last means do nothing you know there on the biden goal the other interesting point is you know again the new york times about. what some call is a familiar figure for a new study in the servant union since 1901

a seemingly reform minded politician who once given power deeply disappointed former admirers in the west by displaying many of the use he had previously denounced and of course they have translated into plain english the americans and the europeans put a bunch of groups and murderers in power in 2014 groups like to murder us who later went to war in donbass you know that the fascists the nazis who did a lot of killing there these groups didn't stop to be groups when they got to power the behaved in exactly the same ways as they did of $1040.00 in the wars and even wars because a civil war gives tremendous opportunities for corruption they've marilyn's know it's wrong they are civil war when did the carpetbaggers appear after the civil war or during the civil war because you can make huge money you know if 13000 people

who speak the same language watch the same television went to the same school if they're killed for nothing. then why not steal stephen is a much smaller c invent killing so in that if the thing is who could alex or corruptly running out of time i mean the. characterization is very stark but i think it's on the mark here but you know if this was allowed to happen because they were given cover by western elites and financial institutions i mean by any measure corruption has gotten worse in the last 5 years and that is at the detriment of the ukrainian people look at all of their government stacks of status. and it is a pretty grim picture but it's all been for the enrichment of corrupt officials in ukraine and now foreigners where the money is being sent to western banks and being cleaned out well and it well it it i mean i come back to the point

i made i mean ukraine has had about $45000000000.00 thrown at it since 2014 it's also had a major restructuring over its foreign debt it's a huge amount of money and yet he's still a poor country that it was in 2013 that is any extraordinary fact and of course it follows precisely when the point dean there was making if you create a system which is run by as demas said crooks at large with mergers what are you going to expects that he's the inevitable outcome which he's going to follow so ok i think that i will run out of time here my only last question is when will we ever hear from hunter biden i don't know many thanks to my guests here in moscow and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here on t c a next time and remember. why

a paradise with some ground turned into a round the experimentation field for agricultural chemicals we know that these chemicals have consequences they are major irritants there's no question otherwise why would that the chemical company workers themselves be geared up that suited up locals attempt to combat the on regulated experiments that often in day you have many of these people who have one foot into the biotech pharma and the other foot in the government regulatory bodies this kind of collusion is reprehensible while the battle goes on the chemicals continue to poison hawaii and its people so one has to ask the question whether there is a form of environmental research going on in hawaii whether these companies feel

they can get away with this because the people have less political power. the way that makes us try to recreate a gold standard is by posing tarot saadi to even things out and they creates an enormous bureaucracy and it creates an enormous stage for banks to print. money and contracts and it creates a need for lawyers and it creates a need for all kinds of administrators which is great for them but it's a drain on the economy because that money could go into actually productive parts of the real economy supporting real jobs with real wages and real g.d.p. growth. and good. move. much of those who couldn't.

move. move. we'll show you that you have to do the book i mean it's a good. move slow most of these girls you've gone through good groove. going to go to shows so look i do the same you love me because it's too good to actually go. to start ups to. get to me to so it was a little missed let's see look it is it's. just interesting understands to just meet the mashed on. this trip the president can please introduce more tonight. as we have producers to go to school to snap them up when you look at those the

girls who. are in this approach to your machine shouldn't be you should cook 2 or 31 who's do you do the. turkey carries out bombing raids in northeast syria according to local media just hours after u.s. forces withdraw from the area also ahead. street battles erupt in hong kong in the worst unrest in chinese territory has seen since of the colonial era. and extinction rebellion that launches a 2 week protest campaign with eco activists aiming to shut down cities around the world we debate of the rise of the movement. this generation seems to be saying.