in growing political instability in many countries the old ways of doing business and growing political instability in many countries the old ways of doing business but only in rich privileged elite while the prospects for the many are few and far only in rich privileged elite while the prospects for the many are few and far in between the elites have answers for today's growing problems between the elites have answers for today's growing problem. global instability i'm joined by michael. ross talking global instability i'm joined by my guest james jatra and watch and he's a former u.s. diplomat and former advisor to the us is james jatra and watch and he's a former u.s. diplomat and former advisor to the u.s. senate republican leadership in plymouth we have and he is the executive editor of

the new senate republican leadership in plymouth we have and he is the executive editor of the news website 21st century wired dot com and in norman we cross to joshua landis he website 21st century wired dot com and in norman we cross to joshua landis he is director of the center of middle east studies at the university of oklahoma all right gentlemen he is director of the center of middle east studies at the university of oklahoma all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate joshua let me go to you for a cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate joshua let me go to you 1st in norman all across the globe we have iraq we have we have lebanon just in norman all across the globe we have iraq we have we have lebanon we have chile we have many other places around the world plus we have the whole thing we have chile we have many other places around the world plus we have the whole. over bragg's it in the u.k.

we have the division in the united states is that a lot of division over bragg's it in the u.k. we have the division in the united states is that a lot of instability out there but i want to talk about the specific country of lebanon just to start it off here instability out there but i want to talk about the specific country of lebanon just to start it off here a lot of people say that it is the bellwether for the region what happens a lot of people say that it is the bellwether for the region what happens there 1st is an indication of what possibly and probably will happen in a number of others their 1st is an indication of what possibly and probably will happen in a number of other countries in the region how do you reflect upon that go ahead joshua well i think you're right countries in the region how do you reflect upon that go ahead joshua well i think you're right lebanon is one of the is the 3rd most indebted country in the world riyadh lebanon is one of the is the 3rd most indebted country in the world riyadh salah may the head of the central bank said to

the country well what crash economically have these cross alum a the head of the central bank said to the country well what crash economically if these protests go on much longer but the protests are in many ways i think a test go on much longer but the protests are in many ways i think a reflection of tremendous change in the world a and inflection of tremendous change in the world a an income gap that is yawning but i mean rich and poor and we can see that from gap that is yawning but i mean rich and poor and we can see that from across the world you know europe is the most equal part of the world i'm across the world you know europe is the most equal part of the world at 30 percent of wealth is held by the top 10 percent but the middle 30 percent of wealth is held by the top 10 percent but the middle. beast is the worst 61 percent of all wealth is held by the

top least is the worst 61 percent of all wealth is held by the top 10 percent now russia and america are hovering in the middle 10 percent now russia and america are hovering in the middle but but it's that you know the world is becoming more and more unequal and but but it's that you know the world is becoming more and more unequal and i think in places where you have bad governments like lebanon iraq egypt i think in places where you have bad governments like lebanon iraq egypt syria you're seeing this kind of explosion of syria you're seeing this kind of explosion of real you know there's not enough jobs there's bad government people are robbing at the top of real you know there's not enough jobs there's bad government people are robbing at the top and the public feels like they're getting

a very bad deal and they're up in arms and the public feels like they're getting a very bad deal and they're up in arms you know patrick and i did everything that joshua to said there but we have you know patrick and i did everything that joshua to said there but we have these ruling elites as i said in my introduction you know still doing business as usual the old ways he's ruling elites as i said in my introduction you know still doing business as usual the old ways here and this is a real wake up call and one more thing we look at the disparity in india and this is a real wake up call and one more thing we look at the disparity in income we can look at the usefulness of a lot of these countries a lot of people. come we can look at the usefulness of a lot of these countries a lot of people. under 18 and what prospects do they have here but my issue is with govern in under 18 and what prospects do they have here but my issue is with governance. here what's it going to take because as joshua pointed out here this is

this can explode here what's it going to take because as joshua pointed out here this is this can explode it is exploding go ahead back. you know this is a very difficult topic today that is exploding go ahead back rick you know this is a very difficult topic to kind of get your head around because there's so many uprisings or put to kind of get your head around because there's so many uprising or please do so much political unrest happening simultaneously and i think there's a tendency by the media by political much political unrest happening simultaneously and i think there's a tendency by the media by political commentators by economists and political economist to try to commentators by economists and political economist to try to find some generalized terms to sort of describe what it's like a global find some generalized terms to sort of describe what's like a global phenomenon i think that was

a mistake that the west made with the arab spring before naaman and i think that was a mistake that the west made with the arab spring by putting it all into one kind of soup and i think the reality is you have you have different putting it all into one kind of soup and i think the reality is you have you have different aspects and different characteristics with each of these there aren't aspects and different characteristics with each of these there are commonalities however if you want to talk about overarching frameworks for commonalities however if you want to talk about overarching frameworks for analyzing this you've got post colonial identity issues you've got post colonial border analyzing this you've got post colonial identity issues you've got post colonial border mapmaking issues that are still plaguing places like the middle east all the map making issues that are still plaguing places like the middle east all the way. for more old war one you've got

neo liberal policies elian of neo liberal back for more old war one you've got neo liberal policies elian of neo liberal policies you have us meddling which would go under the banner of it all policies you have us meddling which would go under the banner of imperialism you could say u.s. foreign policy this is also a big big issue you could say u.s. foreign policy this is also a big big issue how that effects and how it has affected a lot of these countries in regions and you how that effects and how it has affected a lot of these countries in regions and you also have the failure of soviet era collectivist social you also have the failure of soviet era collectivist social economic structures and dependency issues and also depend economic structures and dependency issues and also dependency issues with all of these countries

economically i mean you look at a country like lebanon on the issues with all of these countries economically i mean you look at a country like lebanon they have absolutely nothing that they produce they import everything they have absolutely nothing that they produce they import everything they are economically completely dependent on things like foreign aid and an ngo sector canonically completely dependent on things like foreign aid and an ngo sector economy that sort of drives the middle class in that country and that's just one example economy that sort of drives the middle class in a country that's just one example so it's it is very difficult i think hong kong is also has been so it's it is very difficult i think hong kong is also has been mischaracterized by the press because it's it wasn't just miss characterized by the press because it wasn't just. uprising to do with class this had something to

do with changes in uprising to do with class this had something to do with change this was kind of an imported revolution this is indicative of the into an individual kind of an imported revolution this is indicative of the into individualized young middle class global citizen yeah that exists. young middle class global citizen yeah that exists virtually their identity from social media and i think that also drives exists virtually their identity from social media and i think that also drives change drives it but they don't know where to go with this change well the political organizing isn't there the change drives it but they don't know where to go with this change well the political organizing isn't there the ideas aren't there to go anywhere with it you know where you patrick you just did a ph d. on t.v. the ideas aren't there to go anywhere with it you know where you patrick you just did a ph d. on t.v.

in about 3 minutes thing to me let me go to james now you know in about 3 minutes he's ing to me let me go to james now you know i get you know that this has a lot to do with expectations and i think that you know patrick was the name again you know that this has a lot to do with expectations and i think that you know patrick was hit the nail on the head there and be people being so interconnected is well here on the head there and be people being so interconnected is well here but you know what what we have here is we we have global elites that are not delivering they're doing quite well and they don't have any solutions here and at the same time you have a lot of people protesting it more than protesting out of their bearing they're doing quite well and they don't have any solutions here and at the same time you have a lot of people protesting it in more than protesting out of the fact that they don't see that they have a future here and that is a toxic mixture go ahead james. they don't see that they have

a future here and that is a toxic mixture go ahead james it is that i think those are the making of some of the factors we see in common with these things and it is that i think those are the making of some of the factors we see in common with these things and then as we all know that there are disparate causes like in chile it's transportation prices and then as we all know that there are disparate causes like in chile it's transportation prices in lebanon it was communications and cell phones and whatsapp and things like that i could lebanon it was communications and cell phones and whatsapp and things like that i can't help but wonder though peter that what more is there that meets the eye i always wonder why for example some protests in some countries get very favorable treatment from the global media which sarah shares the same i always wonder why for example some protests in some countries get very favorable treatment from the global media which sarah shares the same neo liberal

ideology is what these people are supposedly protesting against in many cases a barrel ideology is what these people are supposedly protesting against in many cases and other cases they don't get such good press for example i've noticed in all of the other cases they don't get such good press for example i've noticed in all of this very few people mention sort of the the granddaddy of all this in the last year or so which is the yellow is very few people mentioned sort of the the granddaddy of all this in the last year or so which is the yellow vests in france which i think very much were a working class phenomenon again invests in france which i think very much were a working class phenomenon against the very things we're describing but they're bad you see because they're there or they're there or they're not rinsed the very things we're describing but they're bad you see because there are there are there are there are there are not really but there are the bad kind of populist as they pose to what's wrong kong that's only going to probably bother the bad kind of populist as they pose to what the long kong that's going to go on a pile. i think kids in hong kong are good ok that in the in the yellow vests are

our opulence the kids in hong kong are good ok that in the in the yellow vests are disco yeah exactly they're depending on what we should say about spain they have. not exactly their depends on what we should say about spain they have. that's right and if the catalogs are protesting with that is good but if spaniards who want to write if the catalogs are protesting with that is good but if spaniards who want spain to stay together are protesting well that's bad so i think there's i can't help spain to stay together protesting well that's bad so i think there's i can't help but suspect that there's a there's a thumb on the scale and terms of our put but suspect that there's a there's a thumb on the scale and terms of our perceptions i keep waiting for a better not already levy to tell us which ones are the good ones receptions i keep waiting for a better not already levy to tell us which ones are the good times and which are

the bad ones. but he can keep his mouth shut as far as i'm concerned which the bad ones. well he can keep his mouth shut as far as i'm concerned joshua you know. patrick marty mentioned. us joshua you know. patrick marty mentioned. us involvement particularly in the middle east here where you know constantly putting pressure on the lebanese government involvement particularly in the middle east here where you know constantly putting pressure on the lebanese government to get rid of hezbollah that is elected to the offices and to get rid of hezbollah that is elected to the offices across the country as a great deal of popularity and then that the in the in the end then across the country as a great deal of popularity and then that in the in the end then like threatening turkey's economy and things like that i mean this doesn't make things they might threatening turkey's economy and things like that i mean this doesn't make things a. he better i mean constantly using the dollar in the in the financial system to

pony better i mean constantly using the dollar and the use in the financial system to punish countries around the world that just takes more options off the table doesn't it go ahead joshua punish countries around the world that just takes more options off the table doesn't it go ahead joshua. it does you know look at sanctions is a very brutal brutal response it does you know look at sanctions is a very brutal brutal response to trying to regulate refined to your foreign ponse to trying to regulate refined to your foreign policy because it hits people right across the board it is collective punishment in the worst way honestly because it hits people right across the board it is collective punishment in the worst way and we're seeing that in iran with sanctions on iran which of cause iran to escalate and we're seeing that in iran with sanctions on iran which of cause iran to escalate violence because they're not going to take it lying down and

syria's and desperate violence because they're not going to take it lying down and syria is in desperate straits and now the united states is eager to take the oil which syria needs straits and now the united states is eager to take the oil which syria needs in order to rebuild its in or and or to let everybody know that of course and reza less than of course. the u.s. has been wesson's has been. debating whether the way whether they should wish it to withdraw all. love to have it on and on because hizbollah is part of the government but you know the lebanese elite because hizbollah is part of the government but you know the lebanese elite has been. sucking money out of this system for a long time has been. sucking money out of this system for a long time and and you know it would be terrible if $11.00 on it collapses i think

the whole war and and you know it would be terrible if 11 on it collapses i think the whole world understands that and nobody wants lebanon to collapse because it really isn't the sort of lone world understands that and nobody wants lebanon to collapse because it really isn't the sort of loans. of the middle east where people can retreat to and fuss of the middle east where people can retreat to and find some kind of comfort some kind of a sort of leaven teen playground on one hand some kind of comfort some kind of a sort of levon teen playground on one hand it's that playground but on the other hand it said it's a refuge for all kinds of thinking and it's that playground but on the other hand it's a it's a refuge for all kinds of thinking middle easterners who can't find a place in their own countries so it would be in the middle easterners who can't find a place in their own country so it would be terrible if that if it collapses if it

if it runs into bankruptcy which would be terrible if that if it collapses if it if it runs into bankruptcy which it could do at any moment and. it's hard to see how they're going to how the lebanese could do at any moment and. it's hard to see how they're going to how the lebanese are going to really sort out their economic problems because when we look at the arabs are going to really sort out their economic problems because when we look at the arab spring more generally which was framed of course as we just heard you know bring more generally which was framed of course as we just heard you know framed in terms of democracy. it there really hasn't been any framed in terms of democracy. it there really hasn't been any serious economic discussions about how these how the middle east serious economic discussions about how these how the middle eastern countries can get out of this

terrible income gap the bad governance turned countries can get out of this terrible income gap the bad governance the corruption and that's what's going to take in as we don't really know the answers to the corruption and that's what's going to take and as we don't really know the answers to that. and people are desperate but these movements that have been run by social media which are either that and people are desperate but these movements that have been run by social media which are easy to gather together yet don't have a leadership and that is some easy to gather together yet don't have a leadership and that is something that's plaguing the middle east it's good on the one hand because it means that you can't it's playing the middle east it's good on the one hand because it means that you can't read press them but it's bad on the other hand because when it comes time to taking control repress them but it's bad on the other hand because when it comes time to taking control they can't do it you

know any and i guess let me go to patrick before we go to the break here i mean troll they can't do it you know any and i guess let me go to patrick before we go to the break enemy we heard the term arab spring i always called the sunni winter and it's only getting worse here how do we heard the term arab spring i always call the sunni winter and it's only getting worse here how he would like to bomb that patrick go ahead sure i think joshua just touched on something that is very into effective on that patrick go ahead sure i think joshua just touched on something that is very important needs to he's talking about you know no leadership with these virtual movements the porton used he's talking about you know no leadership with these virtual movements that really exist are driven by social media no and so you have idea lot it really exist are driven by social media no and so you have ideological people in old political elite reminisce from the the previous old left screaming in the trickle people in the old political elite remanent from the the previous old left are screaming in the corner for attention saying over here over

here i want to be leading this and that in a corner for attention saying over here over here i want to be leading this and that no one's paying attention because that's not what young people are looking for what they want what they were looking for when no one's paying attention because that's not what young people are looking for what they want what they were looking for was visible. it's what the old left was looking for as well of one's voice for the voiceless they for the visibility it's what the old left was looking for as well of one's voice for the voiceless they found that voice online but unfortunately it's individualized and it's reflective of and on that voice online but unfortunately it's individualized and it's reflective of an atom an atom and eyes to society and this is what the united states has exported out of an atom and eyes to society and this is what the united states has exported this kind of corporate ties to political identity that replaced class identity in the us and this kind of corporate ties to political identity that replaced class identity in the u.s. and nato that this is all that i have to jump in here we're going to go to

a short break and after that short break we'll continue to hold that thought and this is all that i have to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on global instability stay. anywhere discussion on global instability state. i'm going to get a photo repeated promises apologise to the people and promise to you the repeated

promises apologise to the people and promise to be you know we've all bots. basically no weaves robots. they feel ready for a. break we've pretty. much . screwed. pretty good. pretty good. now you want out of your friend of

a clerk at that. no. no. call the. call be cut cut. cut cut cut cut cut cut. cut majaw coming i don't like how you can make up the coming to scout motions ya some of us. that's accepted issues on some bursts and i don't know what was in getting out so it's up there to look a little bit of some of them at least it's just a bullet you're looking it's not no easy to just do what you're looking is

not known. simply as. c m do you have seen him if you can also proceed. to look at with the shadowing of the bullet swinging with regional shall proceed. looked at with a showing of the where the scully scene is lost when the shit. he think of ship to ship a skeleton is lost when the shit. he's like i'm sure. you have the sleep study. quote of shipment. of the sleep study. quote of shipping. you up and most of the book is the work of the person able to match you up and most of the book is the work of the person you're still missing no i don't know what

that or. just because you know i don't know what that or. if it was the latest news in the puss. if it was the latest news in the puss. stuff no worries i'm all right so you have plugs. stuff no worries i'm all right so yeah i've put this was one of those a. little fish through the syringe store this was one of those a. little fish through the syringe store oh yeah. it does. the soul food it does. you know world big partisan. you know world of big partisan movies lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to deep lot and

conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door. we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door. and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for washing clothes for watches the hawks. for washing clothes for watching the hawks.

today there are good. today there are good terrorists and bad candidate since the bad bad. was in the news the enemy and getting. the good. the good those award instead of the official word and since the day is cia and the us military were engaged to change these factions in. the world. where they were assassinating particular listener that maybe they were they were asked to name the way the populist leaders they were backing up right away military windows funding an army death squads there is no end in tears when. those funding an army that's why there's no. because there's always a small. really good because there's always

a small. welcome back across top where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing global instability welcome back across top we're all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing global instability. ok let's go back to james here. ok let's go back to james here you know there was a great song i think the clash there saying that you know you know there was

a great song i think the clash there saying that you know you. should go ok and i think that's going to coming i think that's the company. the motto of the trumpet of the. attitude in syria would add to. syria which i. did. see if they could. you are talking about talking about it here but i think there's broadly speaking i think there is a assad here but i think there is broadly speaking i think there is a sense that the u.s. will and will withdraw from the middle east since the. the u.s. will and will withdraw from the middle east of course they'll be the.

grahams out there and they'll be the target of course they'll be the. grahams out there and they'll be the tom cotton's and people like that they want to keep the united states in the middle east but i think the writing is on the wall cottons and people like that they want to keep the united states in the middle east but i think the writing is on the wall here that itself is creating instability because so much dependence on here that itself is creating instability because so much dependency the u.s. has created among many of the elites in the middle east and they're going to have to start the u.s. has created among many of the elites in the middle east and they're going to have to start thinking twice and they have social movements that see that are thinking twice and they have social movements that see. disenfranchised rising up and now you're going to have elites not being able to disenfranchised rising up and now you're going to have elites not being able to be clients the same kind of clients that they have been for decades go ahead james be clients the same

kind of clients that they have been for decades go ahead james. well i i think you're a little more optimistic than i am that we're actually going to get out of the middle well i i think you're a little more optimistic than i am that we're actually going to get out of the middle east we so i think that and i must know my mind my timeframe and and my time previous we so i think that and i must know my mind my time frame and on my time frame is like 1015 years ago and it's not in this administration i'm sorry to keep going it was like 1015 years ago and it's not in this administration i'm sorry to keep going. to ok you're right you're a right about that although what that looks like and the ok you're right you're a right about that although what that looks like at the end of the day i don't think anybody can say. you're right i do end of the day i don't think anybody can say. you're right i don't know how much that relates to elite versus people you

know one thing i notice about they don't know how much that relates to elites versus people you know one thing i notice about these protests is that these are largely an urban phenomenon and you sort of wonder how represents protests is that these are largely an urban phenomenon and you sort of wonder how representative they are of the rest of the country you know everybody's making the comparison to the arab spring that of they are of the rest of the country you know everybody is making the comparison to the arab spring very few people are making the comparison to the color revolutions we've seen over the last couple of decades very few people are making the comparison to the color revolutions we've seen over the last couple decades were which were largely i would say in many cases an astroturf phenomenon they were which were largely i would say in many cases an astroturf phenomenon they really were not representative of the country at all although western governments were quick to say the ukrainian people really were not representative of the country at all although western governments were quick to say the ukrainian people have chosen this the georgian people have chosen that so i do wonder sometimes

about we have chosen this the georgian people have chosen that so i do wonder some to. times about what the outside meddling in these things are as well as the underlying what the outside meddling in these things are as well as the underlying goal between the elites and as patrick has pointed out and atomized spec gulf between the elites and as patrick has pointed out and atomized especially younger people but you're right if we do end up getting out of the middle east actually younger people but you're right if we do end up getting out of the middle east and i think the really the big question is going to be what happens in saudi arabia yet if we reeled i think the really the big question is going to be what happens in saudi arabia yet if we really and up withdrawing from the middle east because if you're looking for a powder keg there is widely and up withdrawing from the middle east because if you're looking for a powder keg there's one well james i can tell you is that what happens in saudi

arabia i can tell you right away i don't know what it will be well james all i can tell you is that what happens in saudi arabia i can tell you right away i don't know what it will be but it won't be good ok that's for sure ok joshua you know it's been a bit it won't be good ok that's for sure ok joshua you know it's been it's been already been brought up here now and i think it's important to discuss here i mean you're an expert in lebanon you live there already been brought up here now and i think it's important to discuss here i mean you're an expert on lebanon you lived there for many many years i mean the one hand i do see the legitimate protests for many many years i mean the one hand i do see the legitimate protests ok but you know james in washington does bring up the issue of outside meddling ok but you know james in washington does bring up the issue of outside meddling and we've seen this in hong kong and particularly how the media frames it so a tough question and we've seen this in hong kong and particularly how the media frames it so a tough question i suppose but you know how legitimate is it and how much outside

influence opposed but you know how legitimate is it and how much out. side influence you think is possibly there because there are people are saying sure us is in lebanon right now and so you think it's possibly there because there are people are saying sure us is in lebanon right now others are saying this is grassroots this is legitimate people are sick and tired of it how do you know others are saying this is grassroots this is legitimate people are sick and tired of it how do you weigh those things joshua i think this is legitimate and i think people are some way those things joshua i think this is legitimate and i think people are sick and tired and part of the right way you can tell it is that it's not sectarian there are nikken tired and part of the right way you can tell it is that it's not sectarian there are of course everybody is trying to spin it as a sectarian yet you know spin they're sick of course everybody is trying to spin it as a sectarian yet you know spin their sectarian view and so you know a lot of the western press is is trying to highlight tarion view and so you know

a lot of the western press is is trying to highlight the role is a lioness in that there is criticism of his ball and it's the right the role is a lioness in that there's criticism of his ball and it's the reason that it's taking place is because hizbollah is to has gained such a predominant reason that it's taking place is because hizbollah is to has gained such a predominant part in the government and so forth but you know i think the lebanese most part and the government and so forth but you know i think the lebanese and most people realize you know most people are just worried about where they're going to get enough money to those people realize you know most people are just worried about where they're going to get enough money to live expenses has gone through the roof no electric is irregular you can't get expenses has gone through the roof no electric is irregular you can't get good internet all the services that lebanese

want whether it's picking up the garbage good internet all the services that lebanese want whether it's picking. the garbage shirt just keeping the streets clean and not making sure people don't park on the sidewalk or bit short just keeping the streets clean and not making sure people don't park on the sidewalk all those little insults that overwhelm you when you're in lebanon after a while all those little insults that overwhelm you when you're in lebanon after a while i think of piled up and that's why you're seeing people joining hands from one into the i think of piled up and that's why you're seeing people joining hands from one end of the country to the other it's symbolic and it's course it can be you know it can be twisted treat to the other it's symbolic and it's course it can be you know it can be twisted a little bit but i think at heart the lebanese really want their government set a little bit but i think at heart the lebanese really want their government to spend some snow to solve some of these economic problems which have not been solved

to spend some snow to solve some of these economic problems which have not been solved same question you patrick is you know how do you how do you put the scales there of you know people intentionally one question you patrick is you know how do you how do you put the scales there of you know people intentionally wanting to inflame it from the outside and then these grassroots grievances that we were just numerated in to inflame it from the outside and then these grassroots grievances that we were just numerated by joshua go ahead i think lebanon is actually a good example backed by joshua go ahead i think lebanon is actually a good example back to and i agree with everything joshua said and i think it's clear this is a genuine. and i agree with everything joshua said and i think it's clear this is a genuine it very much resembles the occupy movement in the sense that the young people in lebanon on regarded very much resembles the occupy movement in the sense that the young people in lebanon regardless of their sect or their affiliations religious affiliations agree that there's an oligarchy list of their sect or their

affiliations religious affiliations agree that there's an all or. darkie and the problem is an oligarchy kind of privileged in a hereditary class and the problem is an oligarchy kind of privileged in a hereditary class unfortunately it's also a sectarian all of our key and that's a result of the confessional system fortunately it's also a sectarian all of our key and that's a result of the confessional system that's been imposed on lebanon and we might see the end of that perhaps by the end of and that's been imposed on lebanon and we might see the end of that perhaps by the end of this to mulch of this period but i think more than that there's this this to mulch period but i think more than that there's this issue of the united states meddling you have to address the fact that during the cold war issue of the united states meddling you have to address the fact that during the cold war the number one priority of the u.s. was to thwart or to move out of our number one priority of the u.s.

was to thwart or to move out of power any left leaning government around the globe and that was number one priority our any left leaning government around the globe and that was number one priority that was in central america south america in the middle east including arab nationally that was in central america south america in the middle east including arab nationalist governments that were seen to be going in a socialist direction so governments that were seen to be going in a socialist direction so. really disempowered a lot of countries over the years and i think the u.s. has really disempowered a lot of countries over the years and i think the u.s. has one that cold war it's one that imperialist war globally and it's one that cold war it's one that imperialist war globally and it's now exported it's atomized and individualize societies to the point where i don't know exported it's atomized and

individualize societies to the point where. i don't think they have the political direction or where with all our ability ideological bit think they have the political direction or where with all our ability ideological ability to find out what's better what's a better option than neoliberal economics its ability to find out what's better what's a better option than neoliberal economics it's people are pains to find the answer to that question right now and so if it turns people who are pains to find the answer to that question right now and so it turns anarchic in and our kids are seems to be expressed more than political organizing and or kick in and our kids are seems to be expressed more than political organizing and real solutions this is the problem that they're all facing right now many of them oh that's not and real solutions this is the problem that they're all facing right now many of them oh that's not a good message at all is go back to washington here if we could bring up the case

not a good message at all is go back to washington here if we could bring up the case of iraq here where you know the some of the troops that are withdrawn from syria america of iraq here where you know the some of the troops that are withdrawn from syria american troops are being sent to iraq without the permission of the iraqi government and the whole issue of troops are being sent to iraq without the permission of the iraqi government and the whole issue of american troops in iraq or is hotly contested here how does that add to american troops in iraq or is hotly contested here how does that add to a lot of the protests because there's been a lot in iraq and a lot of people who actually died go ahead a lot of the protests because there's been a lot in iraq and a lot of people actually died go ahead james yes that's right and you raised the issue of people dying at james. yes that's right and you raise the issue of people dying you know we've had people being killed in chile over what over over bus

prices i mean you know we've had people being killed in chile over what over over bus prices i mean it is one of the things i can't help but notice it again not only in the in the arab spring but also in the it one of the things i can't help but notice that again not only in the in the arab spring but also in the color revolutions is how the media covers the question of the other revolutions is how the media covers the question of the use of force that i say well you know you see for example i remember in kiev in 2014 use of force that i say well you know you see for example i remember in kiev in 2014 they were saying oh look at the police beat up the demonstrators and then fact if you look at the footage it was actually they were saying oh look at the police beat up the demonstrators and in fact if you look at the footage it was actually the demonstrators beating up the police what's the what's what is the the really the demonstrators beating up the police what's the what's what is the the ratio or the or the or the equities

between what kind of force or restraint is a show or the or the or the equities between what kind of force or restraint is being used by the authorities on the one hand and how militant violence are and even using that being used by the authorities on the one hand and how militant violence are and even using deadly violence you're saying sometimes from people in the crowds and you wonder look i'd leave violence you're seeing sometimes from people in the crowds and you wonder look i'm not i'm not i'm not a not a believe believer lever in the in the whole marxist marxist paradigm that you know what once honestly and what once once the of the oppressed masses reach a certain level of misery they rise up as one and righteous righteous indignation lest masses reach a certain level of misery they rise up as one in rush of righteous indignation things don't look don't happen that way people don't behave that way and still has to be some kind things. don't happen that way people don't behave that way mr has to be some kind of there has to be some kind of even if they don't have leaders in

the way that josh mind of there has to be some kind of even if they don't have leaders in the way that joshua refers there's somebody somebody ends up organizing this somebody ends up. there's somebody somebody ends up organizing this somebody ends up taking the lead and there's the usually fairly small groups of people that sort of set the taking the lead and there's usually fairly small groups of people that sort of set the tone and get other people involved and i get i guess i'm a bit of its own and get other people involved and i get i guess i'm a bit of a cynic i i always wonder who is the hidden hand behind the scenes and of course the cynic i i always wonder who is the hidden hand behind the scenes and of course this is also an accusation that's used by a by the american side you see there's an american diplomat is also an accusation that's used by a by the american side you see there's an american diplomat saying that the problems in chile are being fed by who else by vladimir putin the russians are

saying that the problems in chile are being fed by who else by vladimir putin the russians are causing it so that's more russian battling so i i don't know i i are causing it so that's more russian battling so i i don't know i always want to look at the different layers of the onion here and see what all is going on all the way through always want to look at the different layers of the onion here and see what all is going on all the way through the different layers joshua you know blaming russia for everything is like going to the different layers joshua you know blaming russia for everything is like going to the onion website but anyway joshua you know you're you're a well run the onion website but anyway joshua you know you're you're a well renowned well known well highly respected middle east expert here how do you see well known. highly respected middle east expert here how how do you see western media coverage of what's happening in the middle east with these protests here

again western media coverage of what's happening in the middle east with these protests here do they have do they have the right optic go ahead. you know i do they have do they have the right optic go ahead. you know i think the western media has gone through a real education over the last i think the western media has gone through a real education over the last. 15 years trying to figure out the middle east and they really 15 years trying to figure out the middle east and they really bought into. they bought into george bush's originality into. they bought into george bush's original argument that that america could scrape off these got tional argument that that america could scrape off these governments and create democracy in the middle east i think today americans and create democracy in

the middle east i think today americans are much more a bit more sophisticated and more cynical about what's arkansas are much more a bit more sophisticated and more cynical about what's going on in the middle east or exhausted a yeah there are exhausted and they've spent going on the middle east or exhausted a. yeah there are exhausted and they've spent you know president trump is hitting that. very hard meat he keeps on a you know president trump is hitting that hitting that very hard meat he keeps on reiterating we've spent 7 trillion dollars i think he said 8 trillion the other day but we spent a lot of money reading we've spent $7.00 trillion dollars i think he said 8 trillion the other day but we spent a lot of money and americans haven't paid for that they've just put it on the credit card it's going to conny and americans haven't paid for that they've just put it on the credit card it's going to come due and and i think there they are

feeling exhausted do and and i think they're they are feeling exhausted they want to get out they don't they realize that this is not a place that america can wave if they want to get out they don't they realize that this is not a place that america can wave a wand and fix we're seeing this attempt to get out of afghanistan get out wanted fix we're seeing this attempt to get out of afghanistan get out of syria there are plenty of forces that are pulling us right back yeah out of syria there are plenty of forces that are pulling us right back yeah and and americans don't want to abandon of course a position like afghanistan and just and and americans don't want to abandon of course a position like afghanistan and just but they are realizing that this is a complicated region i think that but they are realizing that this is a complicated region i think that we are going to see america withdraw a lot more because they are more cynical about these we are going to see america

withdraw a lot more because they are more cynical about these forces they realize there's not an easy answer that underneath the surface forces they realize there's not an easy answer that underneath the surface of language like we all want a better shake there are a lot of language like we all want. a better shake there are a lot of sectarian forces there are we actual forces and their ethnic forces that are not sectarian forces there are really actual forces and their ethnic forces that are not easy to contain and that can be very violent and destructive and an easy to contain and that can be very violent and destructive and and then america can't manipulate them we've seen this with the kurds trying to side with the current and then america can't manipulate them we've seen this with the kurds trying to side with the currents that dumping the kurds now is a sort of very crass grab for oil and then dumping the kurds now it's

a sort of very crass grab for oil in syria which is which is i think to a certain degree reflective of well in syria which is which is i think to a certain degree reflective of. the exhaustion of americans and now this sort of money grab we're just going to go for the oil exhaustion of americans and now this is sort of money grab we're just going to go for the oil sattar rabia grab the oil and syria it is it undermines sattar rabia grab the oil in syria it is it undermines. whatever principles america can bring to the table and. whatever principles america can bring to the table and it really shows an ugly face to the power in the middle east really shows an ugly face to power in the middle east today that. it doesn't have answers yeah but i mean the day

that. it doesn't have answers yeah but i mean you will have to end on that point here but you know the lack of principles stealing someone else you will have to end on that point here but you know the lack of principles stealing someone else's now to resources so they can't rebuild i mean i don't know how more pathetic back can says now to resources so they can't rebuild i mean i don't know how more pathetic back can be ok but unfortunately it's not really part of that way in western media gentlemen that's all that be ok but unfortunately it's not really part of that way in western media gentlemen that's all the time we have many thanks to my guests in washington plymouth and in norman and thanks to our viewers for what time we have many thanks to my guests in washington plymouth and in norman and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember. watching us here darkie see you next time and remember.

and. rational. rational. design a lot of need a thief. need a thief. a pull.

and that's. so. during the great depression which i'm old enough to remember there was. during the great depression which i'm old enough to remember there was most of my family were unemployed working class and it wasn't it was bed and most of my family were

unemployed working class and it wasn't it was bed you know much worse subjectively than today but there was an expectation that things were going in a much worse subjectively day but there was an expectation that things were going to get better. there was a real sense of hopefulness there is a better. there was a real sense of hopefulness there isn't today today's america was shaped by the turn principles of concentration today today's america was shaped by the turn principles of concentration of wealth and power. reduce democracy wealth and power. reduce democracy attack solid doubt engineer elections manufacture attack solid doubt to engineer elections manufacture consent and other principles according to no i'm chomsky at your

consent and other principles according to no on chomsky one set of rules for the rich opposite several from. one set of rules for the rich opposite several from. that's what happens when you put her into the shoes. that's what happens when you put her into the. truth will switch who is dedicated to increasing the truth will switch who is dedicated to increasing power for chills just as you'd expect one of the most influential intellectuals are virtually just as you'd expect one of the most influential intellectuals of our time speaks about the modern civilization of america. in our time speaks about the modern civilization of america.

but a mere. plot of your poor hungry and prime minister viktor orban irritating western allies as the board meets with the hungry and prime minister viktor orban irritating western allies as the very same day and hungry vetoes a joint native statement. very same day and hungry vetoes a joint made of statement. in the u.k. an inquiry into the deadly 2017 run. in the u.k. an inquiry into the deadly 2017 grunfeld holes are about thick lead news if the good old system makes the fed millings if it gets in the slums us and foster failings in the london fire brigade but with a little spotlight placed on city and government authorities firefighters tell us

that with little spotlight placed on city and government authorities firefighters tell us the focus is misplaced thoughtful as. cold as the foreign grim focus is misplaced thoughtful as. cold as the current grim. no responsible for fixing it from where we were from with serial. responsible for fixing it from when we were filming with serial on the outside of the tower. also a scathing new on the outside of the tower. also a scathing new report by human rights watch says u.s. sanctions are preventing ordinary iranians from the report by human rights watch says u.s. sanctions are preventing ordinary iranians from iraq.