hello and welcome to worlds apart. hello and welcome to worlds apart and speaking truth or at least class and things to power he's never easy but in russia taking truth or at least on class and things to power he's never easy but in russia with its fairly nascent civil culture and overly sensitive and at times overly country that's fairly nascent civil culture and overly sensitive and at times overly controlling officialdom that's a special challenge how to talk to the authorities so they were holding officialdom that's a special challenge how to talk to the authorities so they will listen to discuss that i'm now joined by you could see in the political scientist and the listen to discuss that i'm now joined by you could see in the political scientist and now a former member of freshest presidential council on human rights and civil society

you can sit in the former member of russia's presidential council on human rights and civil society you can sit in that's good to see you again thank you very much for coming thank you for the invitation now many people good to see you again thank you very much for coming thank you for the invitation now many people. very disappointed by your departure from the council. very disappointed by your departure from the council on the human rights although apparently in the us yourself you're going to have a lot of sense of humor about on the human rights although apparently in the with yourself you're going to have a lot of sense of humor about that but before we discuss this let's establish the context because i know that for all that but before we discuss this let's establish the context because i know that for quite some time you've been arguing that the russian society is far freer and more mature than or quite some time you've been arguing that the russian society is far freer and more mature the. it's usually

given credit for how noteworthy one it's usually given credit for how noteworthy was was the summer of 2 of i was. in the past and as far as things that of the sort of better than the better give them credit for and they've given credit for russia and civil society h. are all in the russian civil society in not just civil society but society in general well on one hand this is not the 1st definite i'll just civil society but society in general well on one hand this is not the 1st definitely we have we're proud of protester stance and quite macmaster matterless but is that all it will is how will that help we must start saying 2000 our starting 2007 team and most every year we have more or less mass and 7 team and most every year we have more or less mass activity even. in very various press invention i see

it as our. view them for without even for example 2008. well when they were there when they were sort. of old aniston sounds also we almost we had more market for our violence on the streets not on the streets not police much violence on the. other. otherwise inclined civic groups. other. otherwise inclined civic groups like the cause arcs they were much more violent sometimes than anything which like they cause arcs they were much more violent sometimes than anything we have seen in 19 and i would also like to remind that what i've seen in my in team and i would also like to remind that one of the very. members of the presidential council for civil rights and all of

the van members of the presidential council for civil rights left the council as a sign of protest for these things that were happening left the council as a sign of protest for these things that were happening so on one hand it was not something new and out of the blue because there is so on one hand it was not something new and out of the blue because the recession impression that we then remax the event happening it looks like all such an impression that we then remax the event happening it looks like all the people who are witnesses to it were born yesterday oh we are having young people on the street i salute people who are witnesses today were born yesterday oh we are having young people on the street i think it's not just about the protests i mean we also had a number of high profile cases that think it's not just about the protests i mean we also had a number of high profile cases that for example involved journalist yvonne we also

just going to galvanize justice are for example involved journalist yvonne we also just going to galvanize just decided weeks before this outburst in most school that was connected with most closely to do it weeks before this outburst you more school that was connected with moscow city to do more elections we had this goal of keys we sure as talking surprise us which was a summer elections we had this goal of keys we sure as talking surprise us which was a surprise for me because i remember quite well when i 1st read the news of the journal the prize for me because i remember quite well when i 1st read the news of the journalist being detained with rocks i remember my idea i was on the council is being detained with rocks i remember my idea i was on the council then but i thought well this is these are media people they can defend their own their own but i thought well this is these are media people they can defend their own kind so. no

need to trouble myself about it so i wasn't ready for the kind so no need to trouble myself about it so i wasn't ready for the magnitude of things happening that when they began to happen it was a magnitude of things happening that when they began to happen it was this time that society as it is was ready to read the sign that society as it is was ready to react to what it sees as on fear and unjust and that's in line with to what it sees as on fear and unjust and that's in line with what you have been writing about that starting from around 2017 there's been a short you have been writing about that starting from around 2017 there's been a shift in the polls in attitudes towards public protest i think the protest themselves have big shift in the polls in attitudes towards public protests i think the protests themselves have become more broad based it's not just professional

protesters but kind of lay man who didn't come more broad based it's not just professional protesters but kind of lay man who didn't take to the streets before certainly new people keim to be protesters not just take to the streets before certainly new people keim to be protesters not just people we tend to notice young people more because wes is she them naturally people we tend to notice young people more because wes is she them naturally with the future with tomorrow but as far as we can judge by it's a logical and with a future with tomorrow but as far as we can judge by it's a logical data of the general composition of people out on the streets is made up of the general composition of people out on the streets is analogous to the demographic picture of society in general the media analogous to the demographic picture of society in general the media. 4940. but we

do have people ages 4940. but we do have people who are not as you see professional protest as not people who have been committed to really google why not as you see professional protesters not people who have been committed to really going out since the middle of 2000 we have a new people out and this is it going out seems the middle of 2000 we have a new people out and this is a change and the process is that you mentioned is called by scientologists. and the process is that you mentioned is called by scientologists in the protest and this is a whim people not who do not practice is a shrine of protest and this is a whim people not who do not participate themselves begin to suppose that brought us to continue to self is normal themselves begin to suppose that brought us to give it to him with self is normal and should not be suppressed by the state this

is red a new thing for russian public opinion and should not be suppressed by the state this is revving thing for russian public opinion because previously it was manifestly seen as a danger to the attitude of you because previously it was manifestly seen as a danger that the attitude of authorities. to progress until recently if this was also pretty authorities. to protest until recently if this was also pretty mild in moscow i think the number of green lighted rallies. in moscow i think the number of green lighted rallies has actually increased and as you mentioned before the overall level of street violence was has actually increased and as you mentioned before the overall level of street violence was very very low wide and all of a sudden in the middle of 200-1000 there has been very very low why down all of a sudden in the middle of 200-1000 there has been such a. you know strong belief of been such

a. strong belief of of the of the public protests not believed by the authorities themselves there were some of the of the public protests not believed by the authorities themselves there were some kind of tradition that in more school it is allowable for people to some time kind of tradition that in more school it is allowable for people to sometimes get out on the street at the same time since the change in legislation get out on the street at the same time seems the change in legislation that wars are implemented before 2014 the price of that wars are implemented before 2014 the price of unauthorized sanctions so-called protos became gradually higher more fines and sanctions so-called protos became gradually higher more fines are more days of

administrative fair arrests and then being famous criminal code more days of administrative fare arrests and then being famous criminal code article 2 of 212 point one article 2 of 212 point one which criminalize us ruby to administrative have found during public meetings and really women allies us ruby to administrative her fans during public meetings and really as. the prize was raised by the authorities at the same time as. the prize was raised by the authorities at the same time there were some kind of understanding that people can sometimes do that what they were some kind of understanding that people can sometimes do that what changed is possibly what you call politicisation of protest changed is possibly what you call politicisation of protest so far. protests were seen as local and based on some clue far

as protests were seen as local and based on some concrete grievances like demolition of a building cutting down of far from crude grievances like demolition of a building cutting down of far they were seen as permissible but the protests of this summer war believe it go in there they were seen as permissible but the protests of this summer war political in the every sense of the world of the work well for me as a political scientist every pro this is a political every sense of the world of the work well for me as a political scientist every pro this is a political action because it entails a demand for push dissipation for political participation but action because it entails a demand for push dissipation for political participation but authorities differentiate between well kind of social or authorities differentiate between well kind of social or economic forces for protests and political there is nothing more

political or economic courses for protests and political there is nothing more political than elections and these were about elections so oh without elections these were about elections so i know when we we've seen this our own goal of case the participants were not punished after when we we've seen this our own goal of case the participants were not punished afterwards be course according to our tradition the worst thing that happens is numbers because according to our tradition the worst thing that happens is not during the really itself not during the march or something but what comes after during the really itself not during the march or something but what comes afterwards the russian institutions are often criticized for. the russian institutions are often criticized for their rather. image of nature and function and i personally see no problem with

that i think they're rather image of nature and function and i personally see no problem with that i think fake it till you make it is the best strategy for a self-improvement as long as you're in fake it till you make it is the best strategy for a self-improvement as long as you're faking something you're legitimizing the whole thing and i'm a little faking something you're legitimizing the whole thing and i'm a little bit concerned the russian authorities have starved faking or at least stop faking with concern and the russian authorities have starved faking or at least stop faking authentically the notion that everybody can participate in politics of them typically the notion that everybody can participate in politics i understand all the insecurities and you know that there are deep historic insecurities i understand all the insecurities and you know that there are deep historic insecurities about political or anti-government protest in russia but still they

have to it's about political or anti-government protest and russia but still they have to keep their appearances and all of a sudden they decided not to keep those appearances anymore keep their appearances and all of a sudden they decided not to keep those appearances anymore why is that do you think well their parents are kept in the sense that whatever why is that do you think well their parents are kept in the sense that whatever happens even if we dislike it then we dislike about what happens with the little email happens even if we dislike it then we dislike about what happens with the little limits of the law as it is we put the law is written in such a way that it allows great clerics it's all for the law as an the law is written in such a way that it allows greek lexa t. to law enforcement so we didn't have any. to law enforcement so we didn't have any well. this was

a specific early goal regime in moscow for example no no well this was a specific early goal regime in moscow for example no emergency has been declared so it's all according when we are. sure it's our role that by calling to the written rules but insurance arising that retain our deference or for the powerball participation and believe that accounts are off the allowable participation in political life has been see that and at the same time their human rights council alive has been seated and at the same time their human rights council whose faith we are supposed to discuss has also been one of those decorated but not faith we are supposed to discuss has also been one of those decorated but not useless institutions elad to the question to ask and the one that they have been asking useless institutions eligible to question to ask and the one that they have been asking myself is whether we the council members who have been so active during

those myself is whether we the council members who have been so active during those hacked sick summer months how we've been aware of that by our activity we had 6 armor months how we've been aware of that by our activity we've been harming the institution that we belong to be in harming the institution that we belong to and hiring on it's. should we have been more quiet tarring on its demands should we have been more quiet in order to keep the council intact or should we have done it in order to keep the council intact or should we have done what we have done in order to show our position publicly even given the reste of what we have done in order to show our position publicly even given the reste of of what actually happened now speaking about your departure of. well what actually

happened now speaking about your departure from the council alongside some of the other members who've been very critical about how they move from the council alongside some of the other members who've been very critical about how the moscow protests have been handled not only by the law enforcement but also now by the russian court system could protests have been handled not only by the law enforcement but also now by the russian court system do you take that as a kneejerk reaction to you personally just do you take that as a knee jerk reaction to you personally just being irritated by a sharp tongue or do you think it's a sign of a more sort of systemic to being irritated by a sharp tongue or do you think it's a sign of a more sort of systemic shift. well it hasn't been just for shift . well it hasn't been just for council members that were dismissed they have

of the council the chairman well i mean all those full members that were dismissed they have of the council the chairman well i mean over there there is a legitimate reason of him reaching the retirement age you can ride it off out there there is a legitimate reason of him reaching the retirement age so you can write it off as something that could have happened but we in your own case it's pretty as something that could have happened but we in your own case it's pretty notable that somebody who has served on the council for 10 months is kicked out because notable the somebody who has served on the council for 10 months is kicked out because supposedly out of the rich asian necessity that's supposedly out of the rich asian necessity that's hard to believe well there has been there were other explanation and i must say that there have been no i to believe well there has been there were other explanation and i must say that there have been no private talks with me i must see it open and fair because it's through another private told. with

me i must see it open and fair because it's true and no member of the presidential administration has given me preliminary warning warning or a member of the presidential administration has given me a preliminary warning warning that they've been doing something over the top and that i should stop or so it was that they've been doing something over the top and that i should stop or so it was kind of a surprise although it was at the same time kind of expected we kind of a surprise although it was at the same time kind of expected we should have been in a more difficult position had they had of the council been changed should have been in a more difficult position had they had of the council been changed and the composition of the council remained the same because working with the chairman composition of the council remain the same because working with the chairman you don't either

logically side with is difficult you don't either logically side with is difficult on one hand the council is a democratic institution decisions are made by voting by them and on one hand the council is a democratic institution decisions are made by voting by the majority and we have the will the active body we did have the majority we could pass your 80 and we have the will the active body we did have the majority we could pass our decisions we could pass the corporations but at the same time os decisions we could pass the corporations but at the same time are the powers of the chair is our main. and of the powers of the chair is our main in our hands for example he alone of all the members of the council has a proper job being an advisor to the president ample he alone of all the members of the council has a proper job being an advisor to the president so he can for example write plateaux

signed letters to the authorities declaring so he can. for example write plateaux sign a letter to the authorities declaring the council's position none of us could do that and generally it looks like the council's position none of us could do that and generally it would have been an unworkable scheme aflame and so those would have been the your own problems in the you could have been an unworkable scheme aflame and so those would have been the your own problems in the you could have dealt with them in the only way i think. even from a propaganda power that dealt with them in the only way i think. even from a propaganda point of view having you on the council could have created a very good impression for russia's point of view having you on the council could have created a very good impression for russia as a vibrant politically diverse society where people can voice a vibrant politically diverse society where people can voice different opinions i mean it would have made for

a much better impression than just these different opinions i mean it would have made for a much better impression than just this someone ceremony is kicking you out and i think that's somewhat someone ceremony is kicking you out and i think that's somewhat uncharacteristic of president putin who is usually very particular about the appearances and the correct touristic of president putin who is usually very particular about the appearances and the signals that he he sounds do you take that as he's own decision because he had to soft signals that he he sounds do you take that as he's own decision because he had to sign on the or departure or do you think. somebody in his i know in the your departure or do you think you have somebody in his close circle who perhaps thought that the your services or your opinions close circle who perhaps thought to your services or your opinions are not the most suited well i will travel sort of mind that it may become to 2 of the most

so. well i would rather sort of mind that it may become to to the on coming meeting of the council with the president the council meets once a year with the on coming meeting of the council with the president the council meets once a year with the president the previous meeting was just after the previous 3 in the asian of the council and president the previous meeting was just after the previous 3 in the asian of the council and that was actually the 1st time december 11th of last year when the new member so that was actually the 1st time december 11th of last year when the new member saw each other by the way there were no preliminary talks even then no one asked what are we going to talk about it by the way there were no preliminary talks even then no one asked us what are we going to talk about and i spoke a little bit during this. and i spoke a little bit during this meeting on the same topic by the way that i had to speak

now as in the meeting on the same topic by the way that i had to speak now as an official presenter during the next even you know many of the things that you see presenter during the next even you know many of the things that you see on many other occasions i mean you're pretty. funny because scientists in many other occasions i mean you're pretty. funny because scientists you know social commentator i mean you have a big viewership on you tube you have a you know social commentator i mean you have a big viewership on you tube you have a radio program so it's not like you're saying something that people haven't heard before but maybe radio program so it's not like you're saying something that people haven't heard before but maybe some people haven't heard before not everyone follows me on you tube channel maybe they have robert i'm people haven't heard before not everyone follows me on on you tube channel maybe they have up or other sources of information so it came as

a surprise to them i don't now again i have in my other sources. information so it came as a surprise to them i don't now again i have an idea that the plan was to prevent any unpleasantness happening and that the plan was to prevent any unpleasantness happening any words being spoken during the next i was wondering if the president cannot handle any words being spoken during the next i was wondering if the president cannot handle it or what may be course he doesn't like kids maybe because that means duration doesn't want. to be course he doesn't like kids maybe because that means duration doesn't want bad headlines maybe they don't want the summer events he going to be glad headlines maybe they don't want the summer events he going to be plenty of bad have bad had lands afterwords i didn't want me to explain somebody else's decision of bad have bad had lands afterwords i didn't want me to explain somebody else's decision i am. i am in

a difficult position because i am in the sort of i am. i am in a difficult position because i am in the sort of have been officially from it to relieve me from making my own difficult choice for been officially from eat to relieve me from making my own difficult choice so i can be only thankful and can't allow that you can have to relieve you for another night so i can be only thankful to camberwell that you can have to relieve you for another minute or so because we have to take a short break but we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned you know so because we have to take a short break but we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned. believing

in weird things by the way is called superstition or magical thinking. believing weird things by the way is called superstition or magical thinking believing weird things like that is not a bug in the system believing weird things like that is not a bug in the system it's a feature comms equipment in the software of our program mean it's a feature comms equipment in the software of our program to try to connect things in the environment just in case there's a real connection. to try to connect things in the environment just in case there's a real connection.

most people think to stand out in this business you need to. most people think to stand out in this business you need to be the 1st one on top of the story or the person with the loudest voice of the biggest raid be the 1st one on top of the story or the person with the loudest voice of the biggest raid in truth to stand down lose business you just the right question in truth to stand down the music business you just need as the right questions and demand the right answer. actions and demand the right answer. question no. question.

welcome back to all the party base and you can see the short of an epochal some. welcome back to all the party base and you can see the short of an epochal scientist and a former member of precious council on the human rights and civil society it kind is down to a former member of precious council on the human rights and civil society he continued as you were shown out a few new members were added to the council meeting as you were shown out a few new members were added to the council including my call a kettle of fish and ski who spends more than a year in the ukraine including my call a kettle of fish and ski who spends more than a year in the ukrainian prison on charges of treason and in the case of korea like

in the case of 4 in prison on charges of treason and in the case of korea like in the case of former us prison there might be a bullet in the russian liberal or even here more u.s. prison there might be a boot in the russian liberal or even human rights community was right to me. was more or less subdue you even though they can also or they're less subdued and even the council of the time you served in and didn't touch. with and he's dead in a cage is. allowed. raised a case all too loudly don't you think. this could see as and if just don't think that this could be seen as a manifestation of political by people you know people who are speaking against that i was there 3030 is that i ride a protected that causes a deposit and then founded but people with poor people more or less in more or less

in line with english with all this is this ball or she is a case is ignored. well i must say the protection case is ignored. well i must say the protection of rights rights of national since it is does and since a broader because all has been one of the prominent on topic topics for the council it is not true that the topic of self was ignored by the council actually if you will so it is not true that the topic of self was ignored by the council actually if you look at the least of people who are council members you'll see that most of them unlike me at the least of people who are council members you'll see that most of them unlike me ahead of their own n.g.o.s they are public activists who have their own heads of their own n.g.o.s they are public activists who have their own spheres of interest and who have been doing it for years so the key is

war prison their spheres of interest and who have been doing it for years so the key war prisoners are lost on displaced persons families or for a lost and displaced persons family is all of our military prepares our sins and them out will ask us also they all have their own well their own themes. to. the mental that most people do if you will quote of that a few of the council member council men. on the topic of the rights of russian citizens abroad and the bad kill. off the rights of russian citizens abroad and the but. i haven't met him personally but i must say that journalists have issues key i haven't met him personally but i must say that journalists have been submitting all members of the council during the years of the council activity

between members of the council during the years of the council activity a lot of quite well known russian journalists and media people a lot of quite well known russian journalists and media people who are on the council you've got phone there was a member once i think it was on the side or kim the ones who are on the council you pops on there was a member once i think she was on the side or kim there was also a member so. is currently a member and had also a member so. is currently a member of head of the commission on information right so it's not something of the commission on information right so it's not something new but i guess what i'm trying to ask is whether because i knew but i guess what i'm trying to ask is whether because if you're a very active position on the street protests and your defense if you're

a very active position on the street protests and your defense of the people who would argue have been unlawful of of the people who would argue have been unlawfully detained or to strictly prosecuted finally detained or. strickly prosecutor. yes yeah absolutely i mean. yes yeah absolutely i mean. you know trying to defend what i believe to be the farcical thing his share of the right trying to defend what i believe to be the farcical thing his share of the russian court system and. sometimes even the pharisee nature of court system and. sometimes even the pharisee nature is quite contrary to the proclaimed goals but having said that

quite contrary to the proclaimed goals but having said that i mean putting that aside don't you think that too much attention to one topic in this i mean putting that aside don't you think that too much attention to one topic in this case the street product the the the rides given by the cockies the street product the the the rides given by the constitution on public assembly has skewed the council's attention and situation on public assembly has skewed the council's attention. from other not less weren't they topics the topics where. from other not less weren't they topics the topics where perhaps the state in vast far more resources it also wants to perhaps the state in vast far more resources it also wants to be seen as doing something i rather suspect is the other way around we

weren't doing a lot of to be seen as doing something i rather suspect is the other way around we were doing a lot of things and what most of my time and resources during my flanks and what took most of my time and resources during my short stay on the council was not defending protestors these were these few weeks or staying on the council wars not . defending protestors these were these few weeks where we could not ignore it paying attention to these people new swear we could not ignore it paying attention to these people need help immediately but during this months what i most pride myself on as of help immediately but during this months are what i most pride myself on as a former council member are 2 things 2 directions of activity 1st former council member are 2 things 2 directions of activity 1st it's legislation against domestic violence i was one of the core cheers off the working group it's legislation

against domestic violence i was one of the core cheers all of the working group dedicated to developing this legislation and i do think that we made the main thing of the decade to develop in this legislation and i do think that we made in maintaining progress we came in time we were like you with the timing like is not the right word but the student council where as we came in time we were like you with a timing like is not the right word but the student constellation the fact help us a lot with pushing forward this agenda and 2nd thing elation the fact help us a lot with pushing forward this agenda and 2nd thing 2nd thing that i must say wars are organizing a special meeting of the council devoted to the 2nd thing that i must say wars are organizing a special meeting of the council devoted to the rights of people you mandolins to tend your efforts to try to reform that whole so the rights of people you mandolins to tell your efforts to try to reform that whole system of psychiatric institutions in russia and to to also to promote legislation

a system of psychiatric institutions in russia and to to also to promote legislation defending those people and it does leave me actually berger going to my next question because i think on these and defending those people and it does leave me actually berger to my next question because i think on these and other problems which affect millions of people this seems to be far more open other problems which are fact millions of people. the state seems to be far more open to criticism and far more amenable to change than street politician to criticism and far more amenable to change than street politics and i understand it's a false dichotomy i'm not trying to even joy here but isn't it also true that x. and i understand it's a false dichotomy i'm not trying to even joy here but isn't it also true that people who are really in the vast that into changing russia are no doing that on the street people who are really in the vast that into changing russia no doing that on the streets you say we pay too much attention to politicize 3 protos to the

detriment you say we pay too much attention to politicize 3 protos to the detriment of other more important topics i think is the other way around people who make decisions made of other more important topics i think is the other way around people who make decisions baby more attention to the fact of you going to a police station to me more attention to the fact of you going to a police station to meet with detained people than to any other sort of work that you do so the with detain people than to any other sort of work that you do so the screwing as you say it is on its own this is another good either or i'm just screwing as you say it is not isn't this is another word either or i'm just i guess trying to have a broader discussion on the what is the most. i guess trying to have a broader discussion on the what is the most. the bast and the most efficient way

of changing russia. the bastard and the most efficient way of changing russia i'm sure you have no nothing but the right to respond back for it for people like this for you that if it sort of that a mass. who or almost singlehandedly created and is now scaling this system of penalties this year is almost singlehandedly created and is now a scam. ailing the system of penalties and shirish beaker a prominent speaker on our special magic salute and she she has her own very interesting way prominent speaking on our special magic salute and she she has her own very interesting way of warrigal kingwood with russian with. you know an authority of the most age gender you know if you think it's almost a gender because we've all any of the russian to apologize because there's many of them of the russian males and with the politicians and this very male with this very strong protect actor image and a lot of elephant russian fashion russian solution that will evaders in the vase or

as a women and the women then who do not would do when i had to confront concern for their owners of those is a theory. not me who but you know try to to try to appeal to appeal to that so that if that. all nurture culture values but the rather find their way of working around it i'm not all nerd culture values but the rather find their way of working around it i'm not saying isn't that better in moral terms but isn't that more efficient way of saying isn't that better in moral terms but isn't that more efficient way of achieving something in russia for the benefit of the people not for the benefit of your political agenda of achieving something in russia for the benefit of the people not for the benefit of your political agenda both ways are pretty difficult if you ask for that a message both ways are pretty difficult if you ask for that message and she's i think the best acquaintance i've made i asked for this on the council and actually the best thing i've done films i think the best acquaintance i've made i asked for

this on the council and actually the best thing i've done for myself is creating this network of connection with people on and myself is creating this network of connection with people on and these are the some of the best people in russia are civic activists on these are the some of the best people in russia are us. vik activists on this social site i do hope the actual most of them are women most of them are women this social side i do hope the actual most of them are women most of them are women and they are amazing and things that they do surpasses the wildest image and they are amazing and things that they do surpasses the wildest imagination but if you ask her she'll tell you that we're making very slow progress this generation but if you ask her she'll tell you that we're making very slow progress this mental institution thing and the legislation that page through it is meeting with tremendous difficulties with mental institution thing and the

legislation that page through it is meeting with tremendous difficulties because you have objections on the part of the presidential director directorate on the presidential cause you have objections on the part of the presidential director lugo director in the presidential administration and surprisingly our allies in this specific kill administration and surprisingly our allies in this specific case is the russian orthodox church but still we can't is the russian orthodox church but still we can't couldn't till this point move this bit of legislation on so it's as different till this point move this bit of legislation on so it's as difficult to define street protesters as to defend no systematically different bekele to different street protesters as to defend no systematically different battle of the position of mental institutions inmates so i don't think that there is one whether

the position of mental institutions inmates so i don't think that there is one way or the other we see how. for that message across your bones she'd be or the other way see how. for that message across your bones she declined to participate in moscow city to the elections and i think it was declined to participate in moscow city to do my elections. and i think it was one of the best things he was also very very critical of one of the best thing was he was also very very critical of the federal authorities and faced absolutely no punishment for the federal authorities and faced absolutely no punishment for that she she in fact she was given a bigger mandate and i think that's no moral of her authority is to in fact she was given a bigger mandate and i think that film or all of her authority is too high the campaign but then that feeds into these long running after it by the russian

a 3rd of high the campaign but then that feeds into these long running after it by the russian authorities to kind of deep politicize the social and economic sectors from the pledges to kind of deep politicize the social and economic sectors from the political sectors you dislike the trend but don't you think there is a basis for little structures you dislike the trend but don't you think there is a basis for the real basis for it given how often the human rights really the real basis for it given how the human rights reality has been used politically by a russian jew politically by right has been used politically by a russian jew politically by russian adversaries. i am a big fan of complication myself and of working with adversaries. i am a big fan of complication myself and of working with the riches when i am to risen to the ranks of civil rights com so i heard

a lot with her for which is when i am to risen to the ranks of civil rights com so i heard a lot of things also on social media and generally that i'm kind of working with the kremlin of things also on social media and generally that i'm kind of working with the kremlin some people tend to imagine that the you get a job in the presidential administration when some people tend to imagine that the you get a job in the presidential administration. what you're not really a spoiler you don't get paid and that you don't have a proper job you're not really a spoiler you don't get paid and that you don't have a proper job a source also i would call i would call myself cell phone for victims tim of my family and a source of people of a cuban removing the remember me but not i will never never does apply to me i've heard his opinions once our quite a lot of that seems instance the political political regime. is really bad then you should not associate yourself with it in

a new way. is really bad then you should not associate yourself with it in a new way so i am rather on the side of those and you are members and have so i am rather on the side of those and your members and heads of n.g.o.s who have to work with authorities with the minister of health care with who have to work with authorities with the minister of health care with a presidential administration with a government that furthers because the need to push their vital questions that's old news ration with a government that furthers because the need to push their vital questions their vital agenda they have to defend those people home they defend they will their vital agenda they have to defend those people home they defend they will continue doing this i will continue doing what i can continue doing this i will continue doing what i can i have no i have had no meetings with authorities

warning me i have no i have had no meetings with authorities warning me to shut up and stop doing what i'm doing saw i'm no longer in the council bother to shut up and stop doing what i'm doing so i'm no longer in the council but that doesn't change my i would say either logical outlook i still think that the russian state that doesn't change my i would say either logical outlook i still think the. the russian state apparatus is a big and clumsy thing and that it tries to govern everything that apparatus is a big thing and that it tries to govern everything that happens in russia so if we want change we can bypass happens in russia so if we want change we can bypass the governmental machine i don't know if you would agree with me or not but i think there is a bit of a governmental machine i don't know if you would agree with me or not but i think there is indeed an unhealthy tendency to control things but indeed an unhealthy

tendency to control things but it stems from very very very deep insecurity and rather than it stems from very very very deep insecurity and rather than provoking that insecurity which i think many of the opposition figures including alexina provoking that insecurity which i think many of the opposition figures including alexina consciously trying to do. i think the russian benefit haunch asli trying to do. i think the russian benefit the russian society civil society would benefit far more from actually the russian society civil society would benefit far more from actually growing a circuit to way that you just suggest unless you make yourself. a circuit if the way that you just suggest unless you make yourself visible you wouldn't be heard how did we manage with genuine visible you wouldn't be heard how did we manage we

generally manage to push on the domestic violence legislation there were some really managed to push on the domestic violence legislation there were some. i'm sorry for interrupting you here but you were a lot. more interactive you here meant you were provoked defend you were making things now allowed but the you were not calling for burning down a vocal defend you were making things now allowed but the you're not calling for burning down the house you know how are calling for the change in the constitutional order you were not calling for in the house you know how you are calling for the change in constitutional order you were not calling for hanging your opponents on the streets. you have absolutely hanging your opponents on the streets. yeah absolutely but i mean there is a difference you would understand why some of the calls like that here but i mean

there is a difference you would understand why some of the calls like that would make those people within the on their cultural within the apple would make those people within the on their cultural within the apple that the culture is recall of these so-called still of a key you know law enforcement intelligence agency that the culture is recall of these so-called syllabi key you know law enforcement intelligence agencies etc how would they it would make them feel. extremely insecure etc how would they it would make them feel. extremely insecure well if you are too nice you are not being heard if you're well if you are too nice you are not being heard if you are too radical you scare off not just the 4 it is but was if you are too radical you scare off not just the 4 it is but was what is more important your own support base because russian public opinion in general is at least what is more important your

own support base because russian public opinion in general is at least point a verse to. violence both point of verse to. violence both street violence and state violence and this is a very interesting state of things because violence and state violence and this is a very interesting state of things because of. proto instruct you are in a dry fishing for the morals i think the most votes lost in the peaceful of face or face on earth birth to. have a bit of we broke on or a car screeched bridge is not just doesn't happen it's unthinkable. and the same time not just doesn't happen it's unthinkable. and the same time when police violence happens when state repressions happen we see from the polls from this

where police violence happens when state repressions happen we see from the polls from this it's a logical numbers that people more and more dislike it so there is a total logical numbers that people more and more dislike it so there is this distaste for violence which may also be the fruit of russian to this distaste for violence which may also be the fruit of russian turbulent history of the past decades hundreds of years if you like people don't want to lose. hundreds of years if you like people don't. don't want revolution nor do they want mass repressions will not move the body with the. approach which they are but one the red do want change they want gradual reform my idea was that this is exactly what we stand for we will reform my idea was that this is exactly what we stand for we are on the council. on the cup everyone but it is not difference makers.

evidently the decision makers have different impression i wouldn't it wouldn't do for me to blame. different impression i wouldn't it wouldn't do for me to blame me for speaking things he speaks so he harm us for some reason. for speaking things he speaks so he harmed us for some reason. or it leaves us with a question that they have asked myself from your earlier who're. it leaves us with a question that they have asked myself early soon and we have been more quiet shouldn't we have with you more. you are being so this was somber so isn't always the harm the calm the consul as a strip consul as a structure. my answer at this moment is now we did what we've told we. my answer at this moment is now we did what we've told we should do and you did it at marring glee and of a lot of passion and with a lot of should and you did it at marring glee and of it a lot of passion and with

a lot of intellect and with a lot of integrity i have to say i'm a big fan of what you've been doing interact and with a lot of integrity i have to say i'm a big fan of what you've been doing the right thing to do as i am so grateful for your time into our studio once again thank you thank you for the parents that you know that's why i am so grateful for your time into our studio once again thank you thank you for the meeting full conversation it's a pleasure to pleasures own mind and that i'm in full conversation it's a pleasure to pleasures own mind and that hopefully yours as well i hope our viewers can keep this conversation going in our social media pages hopefully yours as well i hope our viewers can keep this conversation going in our social media pages as for me and the team hope to syria again same place same time on the worlds apart as for me and the team hope to syria again same place same time on the worlds apart.

cooked additional so i know what was it gets up to linger some of these it's just

cooked additional supposed to so i know what was it gets up there to look at some of these it's just a butcher looking it's nice to know. what you're looking it's not enough to. see him do you have somebody else. see him do you have seen him if you can also post me. look with a showing of the where scully sniffing my future notional procedure. looked with a showing of the scully sneeze last when i should. do you think i'm sure you have your last one a chance. do you think it'll show. you're pushing 30. volts of shipping. the fishing 30. volts up shipping. you up and most of the book hit the roof of the bus thing it will still be up and

most of the book is the one with the bus and able. to see no i don't know what the more. you know i don't know what that or. if it was the latest news in the bus. but if it was the latest news in the bus. stop us no worries and we'll be right there yet i've put this was the stuff now. ois i'm believe that the whole yell of putting this was the booster. worser still isn't really still eligible for the booster. versus 3 syringe tool eligible for that it does is. it does is. pretty. much. pretty. much.

forces backed by the cia in afghanistan african with. forces backed by the cia in afghanistan have committed atrocities including summary executions that's according to a damning report to their trust of things including summary executions that's according to a damning report by human rights. there's really no question that conduct like this violates the laws by human rights and. there's really no question that conduct like this violates the draft there's been no accountability for this type of conduct and certainly not for the actual cases we've documented and there's been no

accountability for this type of conduct and certainly not for the actual cases we documented in this new report as california residents suffer from raging wildfires it's alleged that the mass media reports as california residents suffer from raging wildfires it's alleged that a malfunction at the local power company couldn't start the inferno. function at a local power company couldn't start the inferno and an israeli soldier to survey daughters and take shelter palestinian teenagers send an israeli soldier to survey daughters and take shelter palestinian teenager is sentenced to a month of community service we speak to the boy's family and seems to a month of community service we speak to the boy's family. the soldier didn't get a proper punishment so his colleagues do the same people killed the soldiers didn't get a proper punishment so his colleagues do the same people kill.