civs let's see it's a massive gamble i think at the end we'll get to the positive results from the point of view the s. and p. will get a big increase in seats and carrots and a mandate for a new independence referendum and no for your responses to the programme telly says peter obama's excellent never really saw much of him before i must admit his ballance insane mama refreshing perhaps a show of his own is coming perhaps as telling and then donal gillis says hello alec looking forward to your insight in the political shambles that is breaks it and james grieve of something of the same theme says great sure again we are on the titanic and we need a lifeboat linhardt bottle said scotland's christmas for failing to the christmas election the best present ever read a westminster and finally from roofie dixon no fan of the prime minister she says back doored bought us dollars just the scales of scotland

a lot of people he runs away every time he's in our country. but from the christmas election back to an issue which has been progress this year despite the domination of the european debate cruelty to animals is an issue close to the hearts of m.p.'s constituents and therefore is one of the relatively few issues which can fill even the westminster hall that some such a chamber of the house of commons which is specializes in backbench debates has been no charts the progress of luce's law through the debates in westminster hall to the house of lords to its levels of introduction in the house of commons that the west has to promise has been dissolved for the general election and the northern ireland assembly remains in abeyance this means that the only problem it's currently in operation in the united kingdom are the national assembly wills and the scottish parliament in edinburgh i trust mr there are no members of parliament merely candidates being lined up by the various parties for individual constituencies cynics will say of course that the westminster parliament has

actually been out of operation for some time being totally deadlocked and absorbed by bricks it that is certainly how it's been reported. however this is not altogether the reality in today's show we feature a cross party initiative which is brought forward remarkable legislative success on a subject which means it creates a deal to millions of people cruelty to animals this is how the then hippies across the parties broke through the folk of bricks it she joined me achieve stick to regulation of the sale of puppies otherwise known as lucy's law which will now come into effect next year from puppy smuggling a heart is an industry perpetrated by people motivated purely by money they can make up to an incredible $35000.00 pounds per week illegally transporting puppies through our borders to be sold on unsuspecting dog lovers in the u.k. and the root cause of puppy smuggling seems to indeed be the ease with which gangs can abuse the pet travel scheme that operates across europe of was known as pets so

it's a little gentleman forgive me for giving way and he rightly identifies the large sums of money to be valued by the individual's organized crime and they make a very fine cost benefit calculation and therefore doesn't that bring in force that needs a whole number of animal charities in order to actually raise the penalties for for maltreating maltreating out of the malls and also confiscation of vehicles so that there's no longer is a playing business this is a matter for people in the street who care that the animal they bring into their homes to become a partner from is an animal that has been cared for i am a supporter of making life and impossible for those reading the rules with the regard for welfare and that's why i'm here today to support on the gun and everybody else. as chair of the all party parliamentary group for dog well fear after all his successful meetings on the subject and well attended members events backed up by a very well supported e.d.m. and e.p. tension securing over 100 place and signatures and just 13 days unsupported by the

arabs pca kennel club and almost every other welfare organization in. the uki was also instrumental in the success of the seas law and i commend all of the work that's been done to bring this forward to my knowledge i'm concerned that this legislation will not come into force until 2020 and i hear what the minister said about that but i would like to press him minister on why this cannot be done saying there christmas comes between now and april 2020 and many families may succumb to the pressure to provide a kitten or a puppy for christmas it would be much better if pet shops were not able to display kittens or at least in the run up to christmas the savoy date unnecessary misery and suffering a new path for christmas is often followed by possible abandonment in january this legislation is important because it puts into place lucy's law it establishes

a ban on the commercial 3rd party sales of proper think it is on the 6 months of aging with a band that's been called for by committed campaign is and is overwhelming public support this is a positive step forward in cracking down on scrupulous breeders and tackling the scourge of poppy smuggling alex spoke to one of the parliamentary organizers serving i should have lisa count me lisa welcome back to the alex salmond show thank you very much a side deal that blacks clouding. the parliamentary agenda has not made it difficult for members of parliament to represent the causes that normally would do by parliamentary activity. i think in many ways it was however there have been opportunities to take it forward and given that the government has had to bring forward there was i think where those cross party engagement and consensus and particularly in relation to animal welfare on lucy's law which is the ban on 3rd

party poppy sales in pet shops and through poppy farmers what you say because the government consumer this parliamentary battle on the other legislation is told to be consensual no has provided a lot of truth to the stranger with additional opportunity for members of parliament to bring forward their only job yeah i think at heart and we've really capitalized on not as a c. we had massive success with lisey's law and we also had to fence law brought through which is to protect service dogs and to make sure that animals are here in service if they're attacked that there is a law where those who perpetrate that can be held responsible and accountable so overall we'll feel both domestic and we didn't alas that has been one of your your key campaigns as a campaigning member of parliament how does a vigil m.p.

go both getting the issue onto the agenda and making progress through the laws of the initiatives you've mentioned there i mean i tear apart parliament welfare so that's been our moscow based in terms of making sure that we pick through this city and in parliament and that we get the across party members to support it that we need to do so. i honestly think in parliament over the past couple of years although the agenda hasn't been as phyllis perhaps the government would have white we have been able to capitalize on and that's been fantastic for animal welfare right across united kingdom but with the car was going to so work for joy years ago . sure until we saw a little bit of the normal activities of of parliament to continue despite birch thank you very much. so it probably meant she's success but what difference will actually make who better to ask than the celebrated. how does it working on

television personality go by marshalling across party campaign in the palace of westminster mark speaks to alex. and i'm delighted to be joined by mark abraham better known at least twitter handle as mark mark welcome to the chill hi alex i don't know if you have just achieved. pretty significant campaigning success eleusis law how what is it tell us that and how did you manage that when blacks as completely dominated the political agenda well firstly thanks for inviting me to be on your show lucy's law is basically a ban on the sale of puppies and kittens by commercial dealers so anyone who isn't the breeder selling the poppy or the kittens so for example pet shops people motorway service stations anyone who delivers a popular kid into your house so the person who hasn't actually bred the dog or cat

is a 3rd party dealer the reason this is important to ban is because 3rd party sellers these dealers enable and encourage poppy farming to happen behind closed doors so it's a campaign against poppy farming and poppy farming happens in wales and scotland in ireland in eastern europe in england and poppy farming is the mass production of dogs purely for profit with no regard for their welfare or twice a bad thing i mean why is the mass production of poppies to a willing audience why you say essentially a bad thing it's a bad thing because the conditions that they're kept in just horrific because the public never see them and the local authority inspectors may see them maybe once a year so the rest of year it's a free for all so they're kept as a culture animals and straws sawdust in pens they're not socialized they're not vaccinated or not given any form of very treatment and they're basically bred to death the bred every season which is twice a year for dogs until they're infertile and then they're destroyed puppies are

removed too early and then the puppies sent around the country sometimes overseas to be sold without their mums by these dealers who could not have been addressed just by better read. elation and inspection. first of all you'd have to have someone inspecting pretty much every day to ensure adequate welfare standards which is obviously impossible. and it's just the process of selling vajra 3rd party is so detrimental to the welfare because they're removed too early to fix a socialization of the puppy that mixed in batches as they go around the country so they transfer disease because they're anxious and stressed and the end product you see is when people go to a pet shop which is usually regulated and licensed is the fact that this little tiny ball of puppy is actually riddled with medical disease surgical disease and behavioral disease and usually doesn't last more than 24 to 40 hours in the new home so affects human welfare to turn with only lasts 24 to 40 is

what happens that they die of the flow they don't know the stress of going to the new home and the end of their mother's limited immunity because they're usually 8 weeks of age they usually overcome with virus typically parvovirus they go downhill very quickly and the new family who's excited and they've got a new bedding and they've got toys and they've got new food is now either burying a pup in the garden or actually telling the vet to put it to sleep because it's in too much pain and can't be treated which talk was lucy so lucy was a cavalier king charles spaniel who was rescued from a licensed copy farm in wales in a terrible state she had epilepsy dry eye arthritis separation anxiety a cataract in her left eye she was a broken dog and she was discarded because she couldn't breathe anymore she was useless technically she was adopted by a lovely lady called lisa in the west midlands and rehabilitated and lucy were incredible journey in her 3 hour 3 years of of living in freedom she met

celebrities she attended dog shows and she got a following on facebook which is lucy the rescue cavalier still a fantastic page which. sort of attracted us from around the world and when sadly she succumbed to all her illness is in december 2016 we decided to all of the campaign to ban 3rd party commercial popping kid dealers after her cool loosies law and that really proved to be the game changer in the campaign. join us after the break where alex continues his interview with t.v. bit market for him. and we're going to fulfill that purpose is politics to the people come on you know we've all bots the truth. is. really.

pretty good. if you want to work. known. for. thousands of american men and women choose to serve in the country's military and the decision lives every song came to a complete. the day that i was writing i'll be instructive he told me you know all

the shot i want to kill me and i see how it destroyed my life any screamed at me and he made me come in and you can my on him and he write me with his birth and if you take into account that women don't report because of the extreme retaliation it's probably somewhere near about half a 1000000 women have now been sexually assaulted in the us military rape is a very very traumatizing tapping but i've never seen. like. women who are veterans who suffered military sexual trauma reporting rape is more likely to get the victim punished and the offender and almost 10 year career which shows very invested in and i gave sex offender who was not even put to justice or put on the registry this is simply an issue of tower and violence male sexual predators for the large part of target whoever is there to prey upon whether that's men or women. or was introduced to change

global geopolitics forever and you can't own invent gunpowder big oil is change that the whole notion of what money is and you cannot uninvented there's no turning back. in my iphone or have a 1000 times the capability of the of the computers we have on board the space for a moment it's ridiculous that in my back pocket i have much much more capability than we had to do the entire apollo program. welcome back alex is in conversation with t.v. that abraham who is also behind the campaign for the cecil mark explains how it will make a difference to the lives of so many puppies when introduced next year. out of member one family got a dog when i was alive and we got shadow killing teddy soft here here from

a breeder in focus. and he came back in the bus with me in a moment of his head sticking the shopping. legal black hole much to the consternation of my father pete and i because of the living of a master of member. is than not the can of is not the way that people got poppy's into the house important f. is wrong with absolutely nothing wrong with that if you're going to the breeder which is fine and you're seeing the pop interacting with its mom and its littermates in the place it was born that's how you buy a puppy responsibly the alternative is to go to a rescue shelter which is also an appropriate way to get a dog so what lucy's lore is all about really is moving forward is the only options available to anyone looking for a dog or cat is to go directly to the breeder and see the puppy or kitten interacting with his mom in the place was born great or to consider rescue as well which also have puppies and kittens that it's removing the poorly bred

irresponsibly bred dogs and cats from the system so much i want to turn to campaigning space yes because i really am fascinated by ho for support a number of members of parliament you've managed to achieve this law in england and wales and coming in scotland as it will how did you manage that against the you were the backbone of this all consuming issue of blacks which has been dominating the parliamentary agenda how did you go about securing that initial attrition i think is one word to somebody up you know no doubt yeah i think we did are when i was growing up i had no interest whatsoever in politics or history or law i was artists collecting caterpillars not even talking to other humans i was the nerdiest geekiest square ever. i all only cared about helping animals went to school continued to be quite geeky went at it bringing a verse to be discovered having a good time let's say in the wonderful city of edinburgh and then i became

a vet obviously and i saw some puppies come into my emergency clinic one night suffering from a disease called poverty virus. and i identified where they were from they were from a dealer buying him in from a license poppy farm and that was the spark that ignited me then started doing awareness talk shows because doing the t.v. work at the time with paul o'grady in the morning so i had a media profile. which started in brighton where i live and then i moved to london but it's a very structured wryly with super kings all these celebrities came on board to support raising the profile but it wasn't enough so i started to go to westminster to find out if there was more i could do i met some phenomenal parliamentarians many s. and pull morning and lisa cameron martin day tommy shepherd really influential for my campaign and it was cross party so caroline lucas you know that goes with ross thompson as well. really committed animal welfare focused parliamentarians and we

just carried on campaigning with rallies and events and drop ins and every parliamentary tool in the in the tool box which was accessible to campaigners and to find out for alan well for killing to the same bit of politics because you couldn't think of 2 more the split m.p.'s than the ones you've mentioned the ross thompson. killer of johnston a tory from from above dean and tommy shepherd you're a left wing scottish nationalist for from from edinburgh are really quite disparate people but they would both share that concern i couldn't agree more it's been a phenomenal cross party effort and labor as well you know. when he was in response to was hugely hugely influential sue heyman on the shuttle from. bench it was an amazing filter actually of of taking away all the other stuff if you like and just focusing on something that people could unite around and push forward and finally

get over the line and it's thanks to michael gove who is the minister responsible for passing nuisance laura ingle and leslie griffiths of a say in wales and mary crucial in the scottish parliament so for you to fire your social through your fellow travels same please get them all together. get your politics here this is the level we have this is last week in a way but we the lobbying was so so intense when we finally got it through we had a petition actually we did 2 we lost our 1st one in 2014 we got the 2nd 100000 in 2018 took 13 days i mean it's insane how popular this became and it wasn't just popular investments to cross party it was popular with celebrities as popular with the public so we kind of covered every single angle and almost made it unbearable not to pass lucy's do and also it was important to provide evidence one of the

clinchers as well was setting up an a.p.a.p. gene from scratch so i was undersecretary whole passably parliamentary group correct and i set up the a.p.g. for dog welfare and we were able to invite in organizations that were trying to fight and sabotage and block what we were doing and kind of out them so again lisa is the chair lisa cameron is the chair of the a p p g and many s.n.p. members are part that too so as i said we used every tool available and more to finally get this lucy's laura over the line which which we achieved last year and genuinely can't thank every parliamentarian celebrity member of the public enough for making that happen a little and amended back in the day. people used to do for them by us and you go into the members' low. billows a common sort of there was an issue for example to selling greenpeace which i was a supporter of then michel you made a statement or a speech that entire message board would light up with full messages but no of

course you can't be beloved in the social media as you tried to persuade the honorable members to come onto your your side so what was the killer of carry forward in the social media if you're so to a lot of we've got you know several 100000 followers here waiting to see what you're going to say it's a really good point i mean you know the sort of the 3 dimensional meeting m.p.'s in westminster and i must have been to westminster over 300 times in the last 6 years every day off from work so still are prancing vet the whole time. they are on social media incredibly powerful to have a hash tag at the end like lucy's law very sharable very memorable too i'm not one for entertaining trolls i tend to mute or just ignore i don't even block because then they know you've wasted a millisecond of your life thinking about them sensible advice to many celebrities of only absolutely what are philosophy and it wasn't just me doing it was

a small coalition of campaigners all doing in our spare time was to pour praise on the good parliamentarians and i mean good by the ones who supported and i think if you're getting retreated and shared by mine paid carry out all these accounts plus mile party parliamentary group for the welfare of other m.p.'s will see that and they want to be a part of it and we always made lucy slow completely inclusive whether you were working in westminster or living in australia everyone was welcome to be a part of lucy's lore so it became a movement that we had very cool celebrities in a relevant celebrities ricky gervais's and brian may and brought to riley so it became this sort of group on so many different levels influencing and being attractive to so many different demographics that i think it became quite hard not to want to be a part of and everyone was welcome. so it just escalated and just got bigger and bigger more powerful and was a phenomenal. phenomenal project really to lead and so you've got

lucy's law now going through the statute book to westminster and the programme for government for the for the scottish parliament so that's secures that there so what's next for campaigning both 2 things actually tell me firstly. we will be able to know all the uses law is being effect of course what with the difference or me and secondly what's next i think we'll know what difference it makes because there will just be a reduction in poppies entering that research or ease with problems i think will also have a reduction in dogs with social problems and behavioral problems because they've been well adjusted and properly socialized as puppies and that goes for kittens too we're also in terms of raising awareness about lucy's law i'm working with defra now to you know when this campaign all come out in the spring because it's already

in law but it hasn't been. would you call activated your suppose until the 6th of april says going to be a huge awareness campaign around that to make sure that when the law comes it works which is obviously very important and people know about it and next for me is this there's many other animal welfare campaigns i'm involved with and it's a privilege and an honor really to help other campaigns are there to give advice or to represent them or to or just to be on the phone for an hour and just giving some tips on what to do next. good to cap salut the sooner book it's funny you should say that but you know i am writing a book which is all about lucy's law and they'll be full of campaigning tips as well but it would be how we kind of how we did it from having no resources no background in law no background in politics changing the law in 3 different countries and effectively securing the best start in life for the dogs and cats not just now but well into the future but congratulations to you in order to toss just

excess i'm able to present you with the i'll examine quicker no more thanks to those quite simple you were skilled quakers a graduate federal university a lawyer talking about all this courts nothing else works well you know plastered load all your animal welfare campaign and we will accept a. show lucy's gore campaign was very clear. this was the best results of a good crowd out and it's represents animal welfare a positive trends from the most and one of the most important pieces of legislation this country's ever seen i will probably thank you sir thank you. anyone following you keep politics of the last 3 years would be forgiven for believing it has been ultimate a one trick pony successive breaks the deadlines the knife edge parliament votes the fall of 2 prime ministers the unlawful probing of parliament and finally the 1st winter lection since fairbairn 1974 the astonishing twists and turns of the bricks melodrama have consumed the papers and dominated online and t.v.

coverage however all this notice it seems today show demonstrates that beyond the smoke of the bricks that battlefield there has been a remarkably successful campaign to let's cross party support to make progress on the rights of animals it may not be the issue which tops any party's manifesto but it is one which matters to many millions of people the story of lucy's loss shows that there is political life beyond bricks it next week we move from a country entering a general election campaign to a country just finishing one how will the new spanish government tackle the political crisis in ca to do your join us to find tight but until then from alex and i and all of the shoe is goodbye for now you and i hope to see my.

today there are good terrorists and bad at it it's the bad terrorists and those in yemen who the united states deems to be a threat the looked at it is some of those war in syria the cia and the u.s. military were engaged in covert actions really throughout the world. where they were assassinating populist leaders they were backing up the right way military juntas funding an army just was there's no anymore because there's always a small income for a really good this is a profit. tax geysers financial survival guide. housing bubble.

oh you mean there's a downside to artificially low mortgage rates don't get carried away that's cause report. time after time called parisian to repeat the same mantra sustainability it's very important to accelerate transitions to sustainable prize board sustainability stay number man at a more equitable and sustainable well. they claim their production is completely harmless. looking into complex numbers. companies want us to feel good about buying their products while the damage is being done far away and this is something else just as he went on even as i made much of. this is the moon and you missed me didn't anyone and einstein seem to me understood so when.

this is our headlines this morning crunch time for will close in the united states democratic senators failed to pass moves to protect their identities as republicans push to reveal the anonymous figure the trumpet scandal will tell you more. tightly paid in hospitals or health trusts in england plans to root out racism by withholding treatment from people who abuse start. 0 tolerance towards it would lead to a level of self control the n.h.s. is there to treat people it should treat people. without question. from vale's moves through strict immigration with its 1st ever quotas as the prime minister says the country needs to take by.