diabesity as you like to call it yes so kidney disease in north america is largely related to type 2 diabetes so we've had a big beastie epidemic since the 1970 s. and since the 1980 s. we've had more and more type 2 diabetes so as i started practice i started seeing more and more of these type 2 diabetics who were developing kidney disease and that's why i really developed a very strong interest in the treatment of type 2 diabetes so standard treatment as most doctors do consists of really just giving medications but that don't really make a lot of sense to me because if you think about type 2 diabetes it's actually a reversible disease that is if people lose weight then very often the type 2 diabetes also goes away and as it goes away you can't develop kidney disease any further so to me that was the most important thing was to try and reverse this type 2 diabetes and part of that involves trying to get people to lose weight and that's

how i became interested in this topic now most of your books and lectures built around the premise that obesity is horror more no dysregulation of fat it's driven by hormones rather than calories and we have i'm sure many of the viewers watching us right now strongly believe that in order to lose weight they have to eat last and actually size more why do you think this is vices so persistent and so pervasive despite being seen effective. it's a good question and it's because it's been greened into all of us since we were young about this idea of calories in calories out that is all calories are fattening it's just the number of calories so in north america sometimes people say a calorie is a calorie and the point is that really misses. how the human body actually works so the human body works on hormones so if you grow tall. there are shorter if you

build muscle or don't build muscle everything depends on the hormones our bodies respond to hormones and body fat is the amount of body fat that we carry is really no different so we can isolate the hormones that make us gain weight for example insulin is a hormone that makes us game weight so certain foods are going to stimulate those hormones more than others so the idea is that if you take 2 equal portions in terms of calories of 2 food so you have 100 calories of cookies versus 100 calories of say spinach the instant that you put it in your mouth the body responds completely differently in terms of hormones so the cookies for example spike up the insulin very very high and the spinach does not so therefore the practical implication of that is that calories some calories are more fattening than others so some foods are more fattening than others and that's not really

a very hard thing to understand so when you take that 100 calories of cookies versus the 100 calories of spinach for example your body can decide what it wants to do with those calories so it can either one store it as fat or to burn it for energy and that's going to have a huge impact on whether you get fat or not so the cookies for example stimulate insulin tells your body hey please store those 100 calories as body fat the spinach doesn't doesn't cause the insulin to go up so the body can now use that for energy so it's not the total number of calories that is the difference it's really the hormonal response of the body how the body uses those calories and that's what that's that's why it's really a hormonal disorder not a caloric disorder everybody these days knows that sugar and simple carbohydrates a bad for you that they're considered to be the main culprits of they swell. why

they'd be stupid dammit but you make a very important point that it's not only about watching it but when you eat and more specifically how often the you eat why is that important yeah and this this comes from understanding that it's really about the hormones so the hormones will go up and down depending on what you eat so certain foods make you go up more than others but every time you eat the hormone insulin goes up so if you're eating 6 or 8 times a day which many people have been told to do eat breakfast lunch dinner and snacks in between bedtime snack so if you're eating more frequently every time you eat insulin is going to go up to some degree so that's going to make a difference to your body if you're telling your body to store fat which is what insulin does 6 or 8 times a day versus once a day well that's going to make a difference because as soon as insulin starts to fall your body is going to switch from using the food that it's eating to burning some of the energy that is stored

away the sugar and the fat in the body so that's the point if you're eating all the time you're basically going to have a much different impact on the hormones then if you eat infrequently now chronic insulin resistance is type 2 diabetes but before we talk about that let me ask you about people who are not afflicted by it or not yet afflicted i mean those people who carry a few extra pounds who graze through the day who like to snack who may even think that this is their house the habit do they have anything to worry about absolutely so snacking throughout the day is not something that people used to do then somehow without real any scientific evidence people got the idea that you should eat 6 times a day snacking is healthy for you and these ideas are actually very dangerous because the more you stimulate insulin the more likely you are. to run into problems with

insulin resistance so the idea is that if you keep stimulating a hormone then the body eventually becomes resistant to it and you can understand it sort of like the story of the boy who cries wolf so in the story of boy who was on the lookout for his town cries wolf and all the villagers come running but there's no wolf so the next time he does it again and again a few calm but each time he does it they realize that he's not telling the truth so they stop coming that's essentially we're a body that's essentially what insulin resistance is so eating very frequently is going to lead to more insulin resistance which is a problem because that insulin resistance leads to higher insulin levels and those higher insulin levels are going to tell your body to please store some more fives and it's not only about storing fat as far as i understand it's extremely toxic the high insulin levels are extremely toxic to pretty much every system in the body

right absolutely so all the diseases that we talk about these days which is hard to these strokes cancer all timers disease and all the diseases of type 2 diabetes all the complications such as blindness amputations kidney disease all of these diseases are essentially diseases of too much insulin but the good thing is that if we know that the disease is too much insulin venn we can develop strategies to reduce that insulin and that involves changing both what we eat but also when we eat because we can use that in a therapeutic strategy to try and reduce the insulin resistance and reduce the overall insulin now this whole obesity a story reach has ruined millions of lives reach cause governments billions of dollars in treatment is based on a series of full t.m. task that advise 1st people were told to eat last fat and more carbs than they were told to eat fire. over 6 times

a day then they were given insulin the reach makes their condition even worse is it all ignorance negligence or is it actually corruption them out it's a bit of both i think the the answer lies in the fact that in the 1950 s. in the united states there was all of a sudden a big increase in the number of people who were having heart attacks and nobody knew why but the answer probably was that people were smoking a lot more from the 19071950 s. so as people were smoking more the number of heart attacks were going up by the fifty's and people were looking around for a reason why the tobacco companies spent millions and millions of dollars telling people that smoking was good for you smoking didn't cause heart disease and so on we know that for about 20 years they they were able to hide the truth but when scientists were looking around for a reason why there was all of a sudden all these heart attacks they couldn't figure it out so then one of them

decided to the answer was because they're eating too much dietary fat that didn't make sense because americans at the time were not eating any more fat than they were eating 50 years ago yet they're having many more heart attacks so the explanation didn't make sense but people sort of ran with that and eventually that's what led to the movement in the 1970 s. to a very low fat diet so instead of eating bacon and eggs for breakfast for example they were eating white bread and jam and the problem with eating the refined carbohydrates and simple sugars as we now know is that insulin spikes way up but then crashes very quickly so you eat your breakfast of toast and jam in the morning and by 10 30 in the morning all of a sudden you're really hungry so you go find a low fat muffin and then your sugar goes up your insulin spikes up and then crashes again so you're constantly eating because you're trying to satisfy that hunger. and so because people were now eating 56 times

a day they thought hey this must be good for you even though never before in human history were people trying to limit the amount of fat unfortunately what they didn't see was that it caused all this obesity and then it caused type 2 diabetes which then led to more heart disease but at the time obesity was not even major consideration at the time so that's why it was sort of an unintended consequence of this whole low fat mania now in one of your lectures you also talked about the current medical advice to decrease the intake off salt as a precaution against cardiovascular diseases apparently is not entirely accurate either i'm asking you as as a patient who like most people has a signal driver in stores doctors in the secret knowledge they possess how much can we really trust you guys. i think most doctors

have you know do their best unfortunately they're taught many things that are not correct so the thing about dietary fat for example most doctors really believe that because they were taught that in medical school of course we now know of course that many fats are very good for you all of oil and nuts and all those sort of things so things do change but you do have to sort of take what they say you have to sort of. really examine it very closely and that's where the scientific debate is very useful and talking to other people so salt for example this is a very good one because in many people say we should limit the amount of salt you take but many research studies coming out now say that salt is actually not out of the pure study for example a very recent very very large study showed. really no correlation between the

amount of salt people are eating and heart disease something that we have been taught for 2530 years so yeah it you have to be aware that things are going to change for example give you a great example in the united states in the 1970 s. 1980 s. people turned away from biter which they had been eating for several 1000 years and were instead told to eat margarine margarine turned out to be full of trans fats so in order to become heart healthy people turned away from botter and ate these trans fat laden margarine which in fact caused heart disease so in fact we had actually cause people more heart attacks than before and it was in our effort to try and prevent a heart attack so we actually caused more and of course that the big food companies also benefited from from it handsomely dr funk we have to take a very short break now but we will be back in just

a few moments stay tuned. to live as you do to be the good will with. the. join me every 1st week on the alex i'm i'm sure and i'll be speaking to us of the world of politics sport. this knows i'm show business i'll see that.

time after time corporations repeat the same mantra sustainability very important to accelerate the transition to sustainable transport sustainability stay in her manner more equitable and sustainable while. they claim their production is completely harmless. to congress. companies want us to feel good about buying their products while the damage is being done far away this is something all this must be done even and i'm really looking into this i moved to new this movie didn't even and i'm stunned seemed to be best understood look who is going.

welcome back to worlds apart with jason fung a canadian you're just down to a best selling author dr fung many of these problems as you said before i region a did indeed well in the west or more specifically in north america but they quickly spread around the world and china for example if i'm not mistaken now has the highest number of people living with diabetes and you often hear a prominent organizations like w.h.o. say that beating diabetes or beating obesity is much more than just a house issue it's requires a whole of society solution and presumably billions of dollars of taxpayers' money doesn't really require that. it's a big problem but i think this solution is actually in front of our face and actually i think is completely free and that's. really through the application of

intermittent fasting and so intermittent fasting i started talking about this probably about 5 or 6 years ago and at the time people thought i was just completely crazy but fasting is essentially a period of time where you don't eat and it's as simple as that if you're not eating you're fasting and people had thought it was a really dirty word that it was super unhealthy for you they should never do it but as i started to read about it and think about it it didn't make any sense because we know that humans have been fasting for thousands of years in fact it's a part of virtually every major religion in the world so even as we are saying fasting is so unhealthy literally billions of people around the world are fasting. and it's for religious purposes it's not forced on them they do it because they understand that there's something very healthy about it so the point is that if you are not eating insulin is going to fall and then your body is going to be forced to

burn something for energy but it's ok because our body can store that energy we can store it as sugar and we can sort of body fat so as you don't eat as you fat your body is going to start burning sugar after it burns all the sugar then it's going to burn body fat so now if you say ok well look the disease of type 2 diabetes is a disease where we have too much sugar now we have a 100 percent natural solution that allows our body to burn sugar and it's been used for thousands of years we know all about it we know what's good what's bad about it and if we have a disease of too much body fat which is obesity hey here's a solution same thing we are allowing our body to simply use body fat for what it is designed for it's not there for looks it's there for us to use so we use it and if you use it you will of the. voyde the problem of excessive sugar which is type 2

diabetes and excess of body fat now there is a crucial difference between how a body reacts to a dive or a reduced caloric intake and how it reacts to getting no food at all reach i'm sure you would agree with me the main reason why diets almost never work and fasting never fails what's the secret here the secret is the hormonal changes that happen when with fosse things so a lot of people say that well if you're it's simply a caloric restriction so if you simply cut a few calories at each meal you get the same effect you don't because the thing is that when you eat your insulin goes up and you keep your body trying to store body fat certain member that your body essentially exists in 2 states it's either the fed state where you've just eaten and you're trying to store food energy or it's the fast in state where you're not eating insulin is dropping and you're burning food energy soup and you can't do both at the same time you can store body fat and

burn body fat at the same time you do one or the other so if you take in calories constantly throughout the day but fewer calories you're going to keep your body in the fed state your body still going to try and store body fat but since you're taking fewer calories you can't access the stores of body fat on your on your body the difference with fasting is that you're snouts switching fuel sources so you're actually forcing the change from your body using food to your body using your body fat so now you're burning body fat so as you start to burn body fat your body says whoa i need 2000 calories today but you have 200000 calories of body fat on your body so there's no problem so it keeps burning it so the difference is that when you're simply restricting calories you're not changing the hormones and therefore you're not allowing your body access. so the stores of body fat as opposed to

fasting where you're sort of forcing that switch it's very similar to say a hybrid car where you can use electricity or gas to switch from one to the other depending on which is optimal many people are turned off by the fears of hunger and extreme discomfort or discomfort then it's worth saying that once the body adapts to fafsa you don't experience hunger as you used to before i mean i'm currently into my 3rd straight day of water fasting and it feels really good in fact i actually suspect that there must be some sort of ketosis high is there such a thing absolutely so one is that you start to develop these ketones and some people find that their mind is a little bit more clear using the ketones but the other thing in terms of hunger and people don't realize this is that hunger actually doesn't continue to build so if you measure the hunger hormone which is called chorale and over 24 hours of

fasting what happens is that if you skip lunch for example you're hungry so when you normally lunch say noon time to 1 o'clock you get hungry if you don't eat at that time your body actually switches to using your body fat and then the hunger actually dissipates and the secret is that your body has eaten lunch you can think of it as taking those calories that lunch from your stores of body fat and that's why the hunger doesn't go up when people do multiple day fasts what we find is that hunger typically peaks at day one or 2 and then it actually drop so by day 45 and you can measure the corella as well it peaks and then it starts to drop so the hunger actually actually goes away because your body is now fueling itself on your body fat so that's perfect because if you are not hungry and you need to lose weight now you're working with your body and. stead of most diets like calorie

restricted diets where the hunger tech typically increases but people try to sort of force their way through it dr fung let me ask you a technical question you and others often recommended to me in fasting for resetting the body's weight setpoint do we understand how it works is it all about $300.00 from an anabolic to a caterpillar like state and one of the body is that just feeding itself a fad does it try to compensate for what it lost. resetting the body set weight is takes a long time and i think that it's the fasting definitely helps because i think it's related to the insulin resistance that develops and that's not a very quick process that is when you eat and don't eat your insulin can go up and down but the insulin resistance of your body is not quite that fast so it typically takes a longer time. the body set weight is very interesting because it's really

a. interplay between the hormone insulin and the hormone leptin and leptin is a hormone that is secreted by the fat cells to tell your body actually to stop eating because it has enough and the reason that people override that leptin signal is that insulin is sort of. antagonizes that so sort of like insulin makes you want to gain weight and leptin wants me to lose weight so it's sort of a battle between insulin and lapped in for your body set weight and what you're doing is you're trying to reduce the insulin resistance and the overall insulin level so that you sort of influence the level between insulin and leptin now fasting clearly comes to have many benefits physical cognitive economic it saves you tons of money but they want that i didn't expect to encounter was the house with emotional regulation because i'm. naturally prone to the outbursts of anger

especially in stressful situations and what i found to my big surprise is that fasting sort of resets my emotional default i generally have more goodwill towards people without any cognitive after that all have to think about my triggers etc it just naturally happens isn't that strange because from everything that i read cortisol was supposed to increase in the fact that. yeah there's all these other hormones that go up and these are called counter regulatory hormones so as insulin falls other hormones go up and this includes the sympathetic nervous system so noradrenaline for example is one of the fight or flight response for that goes up when you don't eat so that helps increase sort of concentration and energy and cortisol does go up but it does tend to drop when you start eating again and growth hormone goes up as well so that helps your body repair itself when you're actually

start eating again your growth hormone levels will be high your body will be able to rebuild those proteins that it needs so essentially what you're doing is something very very healthy which is as you fast what you're doing is you're burning sugar you're burning fat you do burn a little bit of protein but your body is going to get rid of those proteins that are old and sort of broken down and as you start to eat again you will rebuild those you're actually putting your body through this sort of rejuvenation cycle and that may be very healthy and may actually play a huge role in trying to reverse certain diseases over steeple are very excited about things such as cancer prevention and so on there's so many other benefits and really what we're talking about is the balance of feeding and fasting and so this is the way that. humans are supposed to do it is that they're supposed to spend

some of the time eating and some of the time not eating. but when you lose that cycle where you're feeding all the time so for the minute you get up to the minute you go to bed you're just eating all the time well hey there's going to be problems if you do that for 203040 years dr frank let me squeeze in one more question very quickly if we may on the link between emotional regulation and insulin and insulin resistance in addition to the diabesity epidemic many developed countries are also facing in major mental house crisis specifically a sharp increase in anxiety and depression just theoretically could there be any connection between these 2 epidemics is it a hypothesis worth examining i think so because there is high lot of people looking into the role of say ketones in brain function for example so we know for example that he did generate diets which are very very low in carbohydrates and can treat

epilepsy we've known that for about close to 100 years now so clearly there is a difference between the way that the brain functions on glucose versus the way of functions on ketones and in certain situations it will calm the brain in these epileptics so could it have another effect in terms of calming emotions such as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder for example or what you're describing which is that you're much more calm because the brain is a little bit calmer by running on ketones and when you fast of course you're burnt you've burnt off all your stores of sugar so now you're developing these ketones for your body to run on so those are excellent questions we don't have the research to say yes it will or yes or no it won't but it's certainly worth thinking about because we know that all of these disorders have been increasing recently and. in

recent years and this is a great way for people to sort of regain their health not only from a metabolic standpoint but from a mental standpoint as well well dr fung it's been great honor for me to talk to you on behalf of so many people whom you inspired thank you thank you i might our viewers to keep this conversation going our social media pages and hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds apart. and we're going to fulfill repeated promises oh politics to the people and promise

to be you know we've all but the truth. really really. pretty good. now you want to work. no. for the. coming.

the libyan president ever moralities resigns following weeks of protests against the results of last month's election which the opposition says. forward. the fate of spain's government remains uncertain with nearly all the votes counted in a general election predicting continued deadlock. story of 3 years i've had to say with roberts it was unbelievable what we had planned and everything and in stories that shaped the week in the leaks video in anchorage a major u.s. t.v. network claims the station washed her explosive interview linking powerful people to convicted paedophile jeffrey epstein we spoke to the founder of the investigative group taking the footage. the only conclusion i can draw is that a lot of these network executives are very close to the people.