so for example we've got high housing costs in california that's totally due to government preventing people from building more hours and yet somehow that's a knock on councils not some dark and free market and a lot of people remember stand were with the understanding ok to understand more than a little understood it's about you know maxie but you get this message not only is there a growing popularity of socialism as people understand it which i will still continue to say they don't really understand here but why is do we get this mantra that capitalism is failed people it seems very real to them and i would attribute to it at least one reason is this whole culture of entitlement everyone's and title does something now and they look to the state and that's what they want the state more to do for them and then title mint is is the path to a to serfdom i think that that is a historical record as well what is this critique of capitalism where does it come from go ahead max yeah i think there's 2 fallacies here and the 1st one is that

capitalism is the status quo is exactly what we have right now and you know the occupy wall street protesters back during the financial crisis they were protesting capitalism they thought they were they were actually protesting the nexus of sort of big business and big government together and sort of power that that yields the 2nd fallacy is that if we want to do something as a society to help someone or to organize ourselves in some way that that is either you know this nation state this government that's going to do it or it's not going to be done at all and you know my colleague ed string is the president a you are literally wrote the book on private governance and there are so many other options and that's one thing we have to definitely let people know about ok but you know thomas what we hear a lot in the meter go ahead jump in that's the whole point of the program thomas in baltimore go ahead. well. it's it's been

a lot of the young people who are ron paul followers they were his followers because they did this like the crony capitalism especially the at the antics of the federal reserve board and then when ron left the political scene so many of the same young people became bernie sanders supporters because bernie sanders was ranting and raving against crony capitalism the big difference of course that bernie thinks. the of response should be even more crony capitalism with bigger government and ron of course is a libertarian and so so that it's evident that these young people are just an educated they don't they confuse crony capitalism with real capitalism and that's part of a big part of what i've done my academic career is over in several books trying to explain this yet in a lot of different ways you know david and i agree with that i'm going to go to david in montreal mean i'm very concerned about the monopolization of the economy i think that has to be addressed this crony capitalism has to be addressed the financial ization of the economy has to be addressed but socialism isn't the answer

to any of those things go ahead david in in monterey right and part of it is it's a misunderstanding of socialism so one bertie was pushed on what do you want he said he wanted what may happen scandinavia scandinavia has a corporate tax rate at least sweden does this roughly comparable to ours 22 percent is yet 20 percent you know so so that is they have a more they have a bigger welfare state they actually have less regulation the council of economic advisors under trump put out a report last year earlier this year pointing out that we're kind of in the middle as far as regulation goes in industrialized countries and some scandinavian countries have actually less regulation we do so again it does come down to this misunderstanding and once one thing we can do about that a say in iraq all the other thing is i'm a glass house full kind of person or maybe it's a glass a 3rd full but i want to then say ok let's. tell them well let's educate let's

write about that with schools well yeah but you know mathematics again this that would be against the this anti-elite mantra which you know i can understand it here but i mean it again is going back to this kind of in sense of entitlement i mean everybody's given something to do for their life and people are so used to it right now you get a useless education studying something that has studies at the end of it that's a dead end almost by definition and it's actually a scam ok it's a scam is that say what it is ok if you get it all these college educators and counselors they're all going to the bank while the middle class is going is going broke ok now that happens actually that's a system that's really broken i don't know how they do they got a max we've got a maximum going back to david and they've got a little bit of max interest and we got him you may say that and then i'll go to you ok go ahead max go ahead max. whoa whoa i'm going to thank you for that peter by pushing back on you a little bit and saying you're probably right about the entitlements of the sense

of entitlement but if we're going to make the case to some of these people that they're wrong about socialism we're not going to really do it by saying you're entitled i think the case that you make is that capitalism isn't necessarily about these big businesses and big business i bring that happens but it's really a bottom up force for change right that ultimately what capitalism is and and it will for it's not and it's a vaulting in innovative and all that yet ok david a month ago you went to germany and i had some facts about the u.s. economy the middle class is disappearing it's a period where it's disappearing upward we have 3 times as many households with $100000.00 or more in family income and this is adjusted for inflation that we had 50 years ago that's credible improvement so let's not forget that things are getting better ok well i think maybe there isn't the income distribution

issue thomas let me go to you there i think this also is giving people cause to quote unquote support socialism because while there are people moving up there are a lot of people moving down as well that's the heartland that's who voted for trump go ahead thomas in baltimore well that's true but if there's a lot of game playing with these income distributions to states because there's an economist named jim cox who wrote a great book called mr rich and poor that tracked individual families over several decades and saw that there's a great deal of mobility in the american economy so the people at the bottom are not the same people if we have 10000000 more immigrants from the 3rd world well they'll start at the bottom and so if you look at the statistics in a look like income inequality is worse but what happens to those people in the future is that is the question and they come to us for us and primarily. in the 1st place because they want to take advantage of american capitalism and the opportunities that it offers that's right if you had only usually scandinavia by

the way but if you look at the editors of economic freedom finish up thomas go ahead. i thought we were supposed to jump in if you look at the economic actually been published by the sort of limitation. which could have any view is about the same as the united states very similar ok so if you would get you guys can't talk over each other because the no one can hear here ok who said break in i don't mind you but to say peter can i jump in that would make it easier to make that you would say i got you know you could go ahead david. if you have a whole bunch of n.b.a. players in a room in the average height is $6.00 and a whole bunch of school kids enter the room the average for. 'd that the say anything about the height of those players it's still the same that that gets that's to make the point that tom diemer and so just make that these people come in they're poor or they're low income they get better off our average income might fall but in fact we're doing better we have gardening services that are cheaper we

have restaurants that are cheaper oh and by the way the author of the book that tom mentioned is not jim cox as michael carts and richard all ok thomas last 40 seconds in this part of the program. go ahead go ahead max jump in that's the point of the program go ahead max yeah i i wanted to just build on that point and say that you know i care about poverty i care about helping people who are at the bottom i don't necessarily care that there's somebody who has a lot more money than i agree is that they've probably done innovative things in the economy i agree all right gentlemen we're going to continue our discussion on capitalism and socialism and which one will win now we're going to go to a short break here after that short break we'll continue our discussion on millennial socialism stay with our team.

i'm max kaiser one more of my guide to financial survival this is fun it's a device used by professional scallywags to earn money. that's right these has flaws are completely not accountable and we're just adding more and more to the. totally destabilize the global economy you need to protect yourself and get informed watch guys report. to my hardest to our dashboards to cambodia. dhanush. to design human to be. a regular we keep.

the same country because the last time to tell a feeling make us tell. the sun come one day my mother but then i had 2 neighbors who. said. it's easy. in the uk include the whole thing as opposed to fit in with the quote this is you gotta send them said. it it all just so you don't let us down they are busy on the day and. i see so much smoke the soup. is still so not to sing on. me at such and such. claims. time after time called parisian to repeat the same mantra sustainability it's very

important it's accelerating the transition to sustainable transport sustainability stay number man at a more equitable and sustainable well. they claim their production is completely hama's. it. companies want us to feel good about buying their products while the damage is being done far away and this is something else this is the point any minute i mean look. this is the moon and we didn't do any minute. understood so when. you know world of big partisan movies a lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door. and shouting past each other it's time for critical

thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. the tense situation in venezuela is still all over the news the problem in venezuela is not that socialism has been poorly implemented but that socialism has been faithfully implement from the inside venezuela things look different we're going to announce sanctions against petroleum to venezuela sosia done famously have a son pull. down the same tackle football that a song oh yeah the technique the magic at the moment taking the whole story isn't new nixon called in. henry kissinger to tell him that it would not be tolerated in latin america an old turn of the economic and social system could take hold

and therefore the policy would be to make. the chilean economy scream so wants to make the economy is in this way and we. welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle for a month we're discussing millennial socialism. ok let's go back to max in new york max explain to me i don't live in the united states what do you see the appeal of a o c because i saw a clip of her yesterday i mean this is just gobble league nonsense i mean it would it would work out in a coffee house in a university somewhere on the east or west coast but it's so detached from reality but take a leave on the issue like of immigration you want you want health care for everyone

and you want to have open borders how is that pos how can anyone you know have the ability to get a leg to the congress and start of so i'm spazzing that kind of nonsense and the liberal media there's no pushback virtually no pushback against this nonsense that's being spouted go ahead benz. you're exactly right peter and but you know we can clean our side of the street here and you know we're talking about where people here about capitalism and if you're a 25 year old and you have then you're not you know if you don't know much about economics you stay a little bit in form but you know you do something else you've only heard that capitalism is great from a republican party that for most of your life is put out other views that a lot of young people don't find acceptable and find kind of antiquated on social issues and things and so i think there's some confusion that capitalism is part of some old order that needs to be overturned rather than actually to force for change

in our society and so i think that you can kind of cast blame all over the place but then you do have politicians on the left who are taking advantage of that. interesting thomas e. and i i i i think it's really well said already on this program is that there's very little knowledge of what actually economics how it really works and an ideology called socialism that has a track record of utter failure here but it's fused into political correctness isn't it i mean i actually came across a lecture about if you take down capitalism you take down the patriarchy as well i mean this to all this stuff is getting really fused together and it and i have no he quit they're talking about but they certainly feel good about it thomas. you know what well you know i think it was the is a puppet and she has a puppet master which is her former chief of staff yeah who some wealthy silicon valley guy and i think they know what they're doing you know live on me she's wrote this famous book in the 1920 s. called socialism and at the end of it he talks about what he calls destruction is

and he said all socialists have always been 1st and foremost about destruction as in that is destroying the institutions of existing society and then they could start over again and create their utopia and i think that's what they're about that's what the frank we're at school has always been about is destroying the institutions of western civilization and capitalism and private property the foremost among them and so i think that's what people like you know see or about i don't think she's ignorant i think she's who knows what she's doing and her puppet masters all certainly know what they're doing and i think that's exactly what they're up to yeah ok but you know i know i know about this character unfortunately has an unpronounceable name for me i think it's like bangladeshi or something like that but. david but david i mean but you know if you have how do you explain the impetus of the if some guy some mogul in silicon valley millionaire or whatever he is and they want to burn it all down i don't understand that that's

against your own self interest ok as i said in my introduction there's a lot of people of privilege of amazing privilege and of accomplishment and they they want to all throw it away with the the throw the dice on something that it's a big if i mean and i mean that and those chances are really dodgy to burn it all down i have my criticisms of the system up already mentioned it here but this kind of approach is completely self destructive go ahead david. well i think it is a self destructive and honestly i don't know the answer i would like to talk to the guy i'd like to be in a room with him for an hour and just ask questions not argue just ask questions to try understand because like you i don't understand he's incredibly wealthy some of his wealth at least would be at risk but not just that probably a lot of the things he like single life would be or wrists the more government power we haven't figured out about this robs

a certain the more the only kind of power worth having is political power and then everything becomes a conflict even maybe whether we get to practice the religion we war and so it's it is horrible i don't understand it but i at least i think i can say you understated the case peter because it's not to be if it's a big certainty that if this happens we're going to be worse off and he's going to be you know what i see will when i when i was teaching undergraduates at the university of california i had a course in modern european history and i used to always trying to point out to them and they didn't absorb it and this was a long time ago guys but i used to say you know you always hear that you know socialism is a good idea which is the implemented badly and i would say no it's the reverse it's a very very bad idea and it was implemented very very well and we see the results of it here or as i said before the program here you know capitalism does make social mistakes but socialism makes capital mistakes i mean and on

a human scale ok we're not just talking about you know destroying the stock market or something like that maxine again you know where does this kind of utopian feeling come from because it i can explain it rationally go ahead max. so let's put the politicians and their puppet masters aside for a 2nd i think we have no choice but to approach the rank and file millennia old who are saying they support socialism with assuming slightly better intentions and maybe less understanding that maybe they see poverty around them and they want to help people and that's you know that somewhat becomes an identity thing also and it gets them broiled in that but we have to then make the case to them that our society can help people better if we don't have this big centralized source of power in the middle that everybody assumes has to do everything and so you know that opens up the innovation the kind of decentralized bottom up ideas that people

have and so you know i think that you know you're we can help people more if we have a more market oriented for you i think you should allow people to help themselves stop putting impediments in front of people or thomas you know when i argue when i argue with these these left wing liberals and socialists here i always bring up the issue of dependency do you want to be dependent on the government and institutions and remarkably so a lot of them say that wouldn't be a bad idea and i gassed by that i'm aghast by that when you are dependency the less freedom you have i believe in choices dependency there are very few if any choices go ahead thomas. you know my friend walter williams wrote a whole book explaining why most americans hate freedom. they want to be taken care of by mama and mama is government and that's why people like bernie sanders i tell

my students he seem to think government is santa claus you know free this free that free education free car free house and so that's and so were the remnant people like myself and the other the other 2 on the panel and you peter were the run that that has to keep out if there are and where we're going to save save the concept of freedom that's why friedrich hayek wrote the road to serfdom yep yep in fact just this morning i was thinking that of my next writing project would be to write sort of a road to serfdom for high schoolers thanks for explaining some of the basic fundamental ideas. please do and i think i need to explain these issues in a way more to you and i go hey just go ahead david. did that i mean one of the things that made roche a certain such a bestseller was that the reader's digest had him do a version or maybe they did it after got which but he. did it back in the forty's and fifty's condensed it down and made it better i mean made it more standard at

least to a lot of people i think it's all i think certainly hundreds of thousands and might might have been more than a 1000000 you know yeah more of that kind of thing you know and you know max that the thing another thing is to say to me high exciting also you know it might mean you know i'm going to max here you know max i think i think that i again when i argue with these people i always tell them why should you allow the government to make choices for you you know you like to sit in your star box and you like to you know where you are you know your sandals and you know walk around you know you know you make all your choices but i said government gives you limited choices and that's a form of coercion you're giving your freedom away when you allow yourself to be cool worse they don't seem to get that go. so i think a really important point and maybe something that can help at least a few people get that does come from ohio and it's the it's the point about localized knowledge that we all know so much more about our immediate surroundings

and our knowledge that our wants or needs and there's no way that any kind of centralized authority can ever incorporate that i think that's a really convincing point that speaks to people and says you can't do this stuff from the top down that's that's just a fact and then after that i think that we have to you know as frustrating as frustrated as we all are we have to try not to just you know shake our heads and say these kids today because again that's not going to that's not going to change any minds and that's not going to you know we have to make our case and make it steadfastly but we have to also do it in a way that tries to reach out to somebody yeah you know what i did not mean i have any idea thomas here i one thing i did it was a couple of years ago in a pretty heated debate that was more heat coming from the other side than me i just said ok this is what socialism and i said this i got a question so this is what socially you get free food free clothes free

entertainment. free time. that's what your socialism is and i said yes and i said that's good mo that's. all of those decisions are made by the people that run get you know ok that's because that's what your socialist utopia is going to be it's going to be like a prison camp i'm going to give thomas the last minute on the program go ahead thomas. you know i'm old enough to remember of the 3 stooges on television i think i do grow up in europe and remember this but there was one episode there's one episode where the stooges kept committing crimes because they wanted to go to jail because there was good food there a warm bed and everything and that's what they wanted and so it's. little more pleasant than good mo and so that's that's basically what we're looking at here the people who seek safety and security at the hands of the state yeah yeah but if you do that you give up your freedom is that

a fair exchange in your mind i don't think it's a fair exchange. no no no no no the point i like to make is a lot of my students you know young people are very concerned about the environment and but when i teach when my classes and i show them all the failures of government in protecting the environment and also all the private solutions of voluntary solutions free market environmentalism as a whole subdiscipline now in economics they really like that they really could understand that if we can rely on market incentives and private property we can solve a lot of these problems that are local i was that they didn't exactly you know if you care if you care about the environment good area to maidenhead way if you care about the environment plant trees that's a good start that's all the time we have gentlemen many thanks to my guests in new york baltimore and in monterey and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. the next time remember. seems

wrong. to me. to see. this day. and. find themselves worlds apart. just to look for common ground. time after time to repeat the same mantra sustainability very important. transition to sustainable transport sustainability. a more equitable and sustainable way. they claim their production is completely hama's.

companies want us to feel good about buying their products while the damage is being done far away and this is a this. is a tense situation in venezuela is still all over the news the problem in venezuela is not that socialism has been poorly implemented but that socialism has been a holy temple and inside venezuela things look different we're going to announce sanctions against petroleum to venezuela associated. famously have a supplement to the moon but absent. that it is. the cat who looked at the moment took the whose story isn't new nixon called in henry kissinger

to tell him it would not be tolerated in latin america. an alternative economic and social system could take hold and therefore the policy would be to make. the chilean economy scream so wants to make the economy of venezuela screed. to my hardest to a dash or sticker but it's. not a regular we keep.

the same kind of shoe because he must come to life is he i can i can tell. has suddenly become one thing my mother 100 neighbors who. saw. him on the hook you can move the whole thing as opposed to the funny thing about the quote this is you just said come see . it all just so you don't know many of the young they have. i see so much smoke the soup he chews still so not to sing on. it something good.

from. the leaders of the worlds for you major emerging. in bros. for the bricks we will be going to be able to developing economic political cooperation across nations throughout the day. whether a potential scale. data collection by a tech and a judge a federal investigation into google's efforts to share information on the health of millions of americans with a care provider. tensions . with the u.s. ahead of talks and why.