so used to it right now you get a useless education studying something that has studies at the end of it that's a dead end almost by definition and it's actually a scam ok it's a scam if that's what it is ok to get it all these college educators and counselors they're all going to the bank while the middle class is going is going broke ok now that has actually that's a system that has to be broken by i don't know how they don't go to max when you've got a maximum going back to david and they've got a little bit of max interest and we got him you may say that and then i'll go to you ok go ahead max go ahead max. what will i'm going to thank you for that peter by pushing back on you a little bit and saying you're probably right about the entitlements the sense of entitlement but if we're going to make the case to some of these people that they're wrong about socialism we're not going to really do it by saying you're entitled i think the case that you make is that capitalism isn't necessarily about these big businesses and big business i agree that happens but it's really a bottom up force for change right than to really what capitalism is and and it's

that and it's evolving in innovative and all that yet ok david a month ago you want a job and i had some facts about the u.s. economy the middle class is disappearing. were is disappearing upward we have 3 times as many households with $100000.00 or more in family income and this is adjusted for inflation than we had 50 years ago that's you credible improvement so let's not forget that things are getting better ok well i think will be there isn't the income distribution issue thomas let me go to you there i think this also is giving people cause to quote unquote support socialism because while there are people moving up there are a lot of people moving down as well that's the heartland that's who voted for trump go ahead thomas in baltimore. well that's true but have there's

a lot of game playing with these income distribution statistics because there's an economist named jim cox who wrote a great book called mr rich and poor that tracked individual families over several decades and so and saw that there's a great deal of mobility in the american economy so the people at the bottom are not the same people if we have 10000000 more immigrants from the 3rd world well they'll start at the bottom and so if you look at the statistics in a look like income inequality is worse but what happens to those people in the future is that is the question and they come to us for orson primarily in the 1st place because they want to take advantage of american capitalism and the opportunities that it offers that's right if you had only usually scandinavia by the way but if you look at the editors of economic freedom finish up thomas go ahead. i thought we were supposed to jump in if you look at the economically and published by the history of limitation and praise united which could have a view a is about the same as the united states very similar cases you would get you guys

can't talk over each other because the no one can hear here ok who said hey can i get my due but to say peter can i jump in that would make it easier to make that he didn't say i go and you can go ahead david. if you have a whole bunch of n.b.a. players in a room and the average height is $6.00 and a whole bunch of school kids enter the room the average for schools that does say anything about the the height of those players it's still the same that that gets that's to make the point that tom diemer and so just make these people come in they're poor or they're low income they get better off our average income might fall but in fact we're doing better we have gardening services that are cheaper we have restaurants that are cheaper oh and by the way the author of the book that tom mentioned is not jim cox as michael carts and richard all ok thomas last 40 seconds in this part of the program director go ahead go ahead max jump in that's the point of the program i had maxed. yeah i i wanted to just build on that point and say

that you know i care about poverty i care about helping people who are at the bottom i don't necessarily care that there is somebody who has a lot more money than i agree is that they have probably done innovative things in the economy i agree all right gentlemen we're going to continue our discussion on capitalism and socialism in which one will win now we're going to go to a short break here after that short break we'll continue our discussion on millennial socialism stay with are.

looking for. the tense situation in venezuela is still all over the news the problem in venezuela is not that socialism has been poorly implemented but that socialism has been played only implement from the inside venezuela things are different we're going to announce sanctions against petroleum to venezuela so see you. in the school have a look at. the temple something political and the song yet to come at the moment. the whose story is a new nixon hold in henry kissinger to tell him that it would not be tolerated in latin america and. terms of the economic and social system could take hold

and therefore the policy would be to make. the chilean economy scream so wants to make it come in the event as well and we. welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle for a month we're discussing millennial socialism. ok let's go back to max in new york max explain to me i don't live in the united states what do you see the appeal of a o c because i saw a clip of her yesterday i mean this is just gobble league nonsense i mean it would it would work out in a coffee house in

a university somewhere on the east or west coast but it's so detached from reality but take a leave on the issue like of immigration you want you want health care for everyone and you want to have open borders how is that pos how can anyone you know have the ability to get a leg to the congress and start of a spouse in that kind of nonsense and the liberal media there's no pushback virtually no pushback against this nonsense that's being spouted go ahead benz. you're exactly right peter and but you know we can clean our side of the street here and you know we talk about where people here about capitalism and if you're a 25 year old and you have done you're not you know if you don't know much about economics you stay a little bit in form but you know you do something else you've only heard that capitalism is great from a republican party that for most of your life is put out other views that a lot of young people don't find acceptable and find kind of antiquated on social issues and things and so i think there's some confusion that capitalism is part of

some old order that needs to be overturned rather than actually to force for change in our society and so i think that you can kind of cast blame all over the place but then you do have politicians on the left who are taking advantage of that i mean it's an interesting thomas and i i i i think it's really well said already on this program is that there's very little knowledge of what actually economics how it really works and an ideology called socialism that has a track record of utter failure here but it's fused into political correctness isn't it i mean i actually came across a lecture about if you take down capitalism you take down the patriarchy as well i mean this to all this stuff is getting really fused together and it and i have no he quit they're talking about but they certainly feel good about it thomas. yeah well you know i think it is a puppet and she has a puppet master which is her former chief of staff yeah some wealthy silicon valley

guy and i think they know what they're doing you know these wrote this famous book in the 1920 s. called socialism and at the end of it he talks about what he calls destruction is and he said all socialists have always been 1st and foremost about destruction as in that is destroying the institutions of existing society and then they could start over again and create their utopia and i think that's what they're about that's what the franc we're at school has always been about is destroying the institutions and. western civilization and capitalism and private property the foremost among them so i think that's what people like or about i don't think she's ignorant i think she's who knows what she's doing and her puppet masters all certainly know what they're doing and i think that's exactly what they're up to yeah ok but you know i know i know about this character unfortunately has an unpronounceable name for me i think it's like bangladesh or something like that but . david but david i mean but you know if you have how do you have explain the

impetus of the if some guy some mogul in silicon valley millionaire or whatever he is and they want to burn it all down i don't understand that that's against your own self interest ok as i said in my introduction there's a lot of people of privilege of amazing privilege and of accomplishment and they they want to all throw it away with the the throw the dice on something that it's a big if i mean and i mean that and those chances are really dodgy to burn it all down i have my criticisms of the system of already mentioned it here but this kind of approach is completely self destructive go ahead david. well i think that is the self destructive and honestly i don't know the answer i would like to talk to the guy i'd like to be in a room with him for an hour and just ask questions not argue just ask questions to try understand because like you i don't understand he's incredibly wealthy some of his wealth at least would be at risk but not just that probably

a lot of the things he like single life would be or wrists the more government power we haven't figured out about this robs a certain the more the only kind of power worth having is political power and then everything becomes a conflict even maybe whether we get to practice the religion we war and so it's it is horrible i don't understand it but i at least i think i can say you understated the case peter because it's not to be you know it's a big certainty that if this happens we're going to be worse off and he's going to be you know at a sequel so when i when i was teaching undergraduates at the university of california i had a course in modern european history and i used to always trying to point out to them and they didn't absorb it and this was a long time ago guys but i used to say you know you always hear that you know socialism is a good idea which is implemented badly and i would say no it's the reverse it's a very very bad idea and it was implemented very very well and we see the results

of it here or as i said before the program here you know capitalism does make social mistakes but socialism makes capital mistakes i mean and on a human scale ok we're not just talking about you know destroying the stock market or something like that max you know again you know where does this kind of utopian feeling come from because it i can explain it rationally go ahead max. so let's put the politicians and their puppet masters aside for a 2nd i think we have no choice but to approach the rank and file millennia old who are saying they support socialism with assuming slightly better intentions and maybe less understanding that maybe they see poverty around them and they want to help people and that some you know that somewhat becomes an identity thing also and it gets them broiled in that but we have to then make the case to them that our society can help people better if we don't have this big centralized source of power in the middle that everybody assumes has to do everything and so you know

that opens up the innovation the kind of decentralized bottom up ideas that people have and so you know i think that you know you're we can help people more if we have a more market oriented for it well i think you should allow people to help themselves stop putting impediments in front of people or thomas you know when i argue when i argue with these these left wing liberals and socialists here i always bring up the issue of dependency do you want to be dependent on the government and institutions and remarkably so a lot of them say that wouldn't be a bad idea and i gassed by that i'm aghast by that when you more dependency the less freedom you have i believe in choices dependency there are very few if any choices go ahead thomas. you know my friend walter williams wrote a whole book explaining why most americans hate freedom. they want to be taken care

of by moma and moma is government and that's why people like bernie sanders i tell my students he seem to think government has a clause you know free this free that free education free car free house and so that's and so we were the remnant people like myself and the other the other 2 on the panel and you peter were the run the. keypad. where we're going to save save the concept of freedom that's why friedrich hayek wrote the road to serfdom yep yep in fact just this morning i was thinking that of my next writing project would be to write sort of a road to serfdom for high schoolers explaining some of the basic fundamental ideas . please do that because i need to explain these issues in a way more to go hey just go ahead david it. did me one of the things that made roche a certain such a bestseller was that the reader's digest had him do a version or maybe they did it after got which but he. did back in the forty's and

fifty's condensed it down and made it better i mean made it more in the stand at least to a lot of people i think it's i think certainly hundreds of thousands and might it might have been more than a 1000000 you know yeah more of that kind of thing you know and you know max that the thing another thing is it was a to me high exciting also you know it might mean you know i'm going back to you know max i think i think that i again when i argue with these people i always tell them why should you allow the government to make choices for you you know you like to sit in your starbucks and you like to you know where you are you know your sandals and you know walk around you know you know you make all your choices but i said government gives you limited choices and that's a form of coercion you're giving your freedom away when you allow yourself to be cool worst they don't seem to get that go ahead max. so i think a really important point maybe something that can help at least a few people get that does come from high end it's the it's the point about

localized knowledge that we all know so much more about our immediate surroundings that are not ones that are wants or needs and there's no way that any kind of centralized authority can ever incorporate that i think that's a really convincing point that speaks to people and says you can't do this stuff from the top down that's that's just a fact and then after. that i think that we have to you know as frustrating as frustrated as we all 'd are we have to try not to just you know shake our heads and say these kids today because again that's not going to that's not going to change any minds and that's not going to you know we have to make our case and make it steadfastly but we have to also do it in a way that tries to reach out to somebody yeah you know we're going to hang on here to thomas here i one thing i did that was a couple of years ago in a pretty heated debate that was more heat coming from the other side than me i just

said ok this is what socialism and i think this is i got a question so this is what socially you get free food free clothes free entertainment. free time. that's what your socialism is and i said yes and i said that's good mo that's great no all of those decisions are made by the people that run get you know ok that's because that's what your socialist utopia is going to be it's going to be like a prison camp i'm going to give thomas the last minute on the program go ahead thomas. you know i'm old enough to remember of the 3 stooges on television i mean i do grow up in europe remember this but there was one episode there's one episode where the stooges kept committing crimes quickly wanted to go to jail because there was good food there a warm bed and everything and that's what they wanted and so it's a little more pleasant than good mo and so that's that's basically what we're looking at here the people who seek safety and security at the hands of the state

yeah yeah but if you do that you give up your freedom is not a fair exchange in your mind i don't think it's a fair exchange you know. no no no no no the point i like to make is a lot of my students you know the young people are very concerned about the environment and but when i teach when my classes and i show them all the failures of government in protecting the environment and also all the private solutions of voluntary solutions free market environmentalism as a whole subdiscipline now in economics they really like that they really could they understand that if we can rely on market incentives and private property we can solve a lot of these problems that are local i was that they didn't exactly you know if you care if you care about the environment good area to maidenhead way if you care about the environment plant trees that's a good start that's all the time we have gentlemen many thanks to my guests in new york baltimore and in monterey and thanks to our viewers for watching us here darkie see you next time remember.

time after time called gratian to repeat the same mantra sustainability it's very important it's accelerating the transition to sustainable transport sustainability and a more equitable and sustainable well. they claim that production is completely hama's . this league. look the. companies want us to feel good about buying their products while the damage is being done far away this is again this must be done even as i mean look. we don't want any human and i'm stymied seen them and understood this is going.

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the new self declared its release. leaders of the brics the emerging economies are in brazil for that annual summit i mean to strengthen their partnership our team is on the events. of the turkish and us presidents meet in washington we look at some of the key disputes between the 2 nato allies.