strong. society and the freedom of. the brics summit in brazil wraps up the russian president stresses the organization's importance for global stability and developing future markets. at least 2 people were killed in a high school shooting in california 3 others already the suspects has been arrested. on the street violence in hong kong shows no sign of abating with a 2nd person killed as china urges the us the stop supporting the protesters. social media pages. into chinese activist. is the guest so if you are.

welcome to so because visionaries mean so. contemporary art can be a very powerful social commentary with no further ado my guest today is legendary i way when. i waits really great to have you on our program today welcome thank you. so now that i have you here there are so many things that i want to ask you for instance your art mainly is. commentary on certain events as a reflection on things situations and that's understandable because you speak from your whole experience your whole life experience behind that art but. i just want to know your perception and. is it just important to have a cell for

a quick reflection on your own experience or do you expect this to actually change people's lives as well. as you said my world really relieved my south experience. and the struggle our political struggle it changed my life and also on the. benefits me would benefit other people but do you do you feel like it's your mission also to change other people's life with your art or this is not something that. it's not something i'm looking for you know i'm not. or to certain you know my art for certain political go but i do believe really mean i assume i'm being.

this international for change and that it's always there so i'm very happy to be part of it so when we talk about contemporary art and here we are because i'm not a person who sees contemporary art and loves it and there are very few people who are like that actually because contemporary art is usually not a visual thing it's more about the concept behind it and unless that concept is explained you don't really understand why that installation is there or why this painting is here and there are a lot of people like me who are very visual people and they don't get conceptual art someone like you are an artist is there to explain do you feel like. that arch should be more adapt to people so that we understand it's more easy to for us to understand more accessible i think. i would not say i like contemporary art. practice my art could be relieved to. to tradition really to clear

old the concept and most of the combat berard. it's just rubbish you know it's not really designed before the people there i reckon they push people away and the. guard has nothing to do with ordinary people which is very sad situation yes also there's a problem with what i see as contemporary art because it's supposed to be the most liberal of self expression places but then somehow there is a complete dictatorship of the within that specter off contemporary art. for instance you can say this is art and if you're an artist and you say this is art they were supposed to be a that this is art and then where do you make. that the difference whether is real art or not how do you make that difference temporary for me the judgment is how

real it can be and not have it really motions really being in the real world of a free it's a real struggle but so-called liberal very often is also a dictatorship a liberal idea which is a very large and no one has nothing to do with or really struggle. i've spoken to many people during my career and there was a period when i was interviewing war reporters a lot and i would ask them why are you doing this because they would keep going back and back to hot spots and making this scary but amazing photos and then come back home and go to a psychiatrist all the time and not able to have a normal life and they're like well because we feel like if we capture the review deal and we show the horror to the whole world this will change things and wars will stop and i mean i don't want to discourage them but wars don't stop they don't and same for like. something that you are doing i mean it can be

a protest against i don't know fires in amazon chinese system hong kong protest anything but does it like make you sad that it's not going to actually change the real course of events. my own for i feel sad because so you feel. there's not much been changed if you know what should be changed it's never really going to be changed or same so it won't be changed in the short time but when you become part of the dog assad best butter refuse to defend itself and not to become a part of something i don't believe you can see always the protesting this stablish men dislike in your way and some would think that you know you would only criticize the chinese government but then you don't. make it is it for the white house or the

for the european establishment did you ever think that at some point you could separate the political aspects from your art or you don't see your art at all without the political aspects. you don't see my arc there is a human struggle on the harley to go as practice very strong part of our human struggle so my art has not. just not just about the. art it's about humor it's about the freedom of speech to be jews freedom so they would always take a struggle and you were as a matter europe or china so what you were saying fits perfectly the definition of the world word dissident do you consider yourself a descendant i was born. i think what i ask and so in your own words what's a dissident because for us people with with the soviet background would

automatically think about salt cellars and it's in with think about sato of and the in the eighty's when there are statues were actually normalized they came back and they started criticizing their liberators you know because this is a perpetual mission they would say what is in your own words a dissident and the mission of a dissident i think of the. individual's judgment always relate to human rights and human conditions and. to reflect seem better different political conditions and be alone the individual oh yes in what sense like alone a little fighter. alone won't fight or even terms of intellectual judgment you know you you're not using it to just be yourself and you kind of. run your judgment but really come out from your experience. so

basically always make it super uncomfortable for the system that is whatever at this time it is that your existing right now and you know i think. if i can i want to make them uncomfortable. no. questioning the power the existence of a power to see if there are to print you for the be. there for the people so i've been here for a week in berlin and what i found out that i was going to interview i told some of my german friends i'm going to interview and way way and it's like what can you asking why he's being you know so snobbish about berlin because we love theme when we welcomed him here and we gave him the ways and space to work and it was like this you know a safe haven for him and now he's saying germany is not tolerant enough so i'm going to move to u.k. so do you see how germans may think that you are great for all that doesn't matter when it comes to self-expression and art it doesn't matter nobody comes by me

that's a problem for this and they've given me a space that's totally wrong i wrote good germans very south center. they're not open for deeper discussions i don't like the congress and i don't like to be decorative for german society of course the they have many good characters but that's not appreciate a pretty shared a real intelligent individual struggle so you're moving to united kingdom from what i got there right while i'm not moving when you were a refugee over the road you know i can go to russia kind of go to india but i knew where i cannot go back to my nation. that's my problem so i knew where it was to me this is a saying so i sent german to me stunned the sending. me you know i'm not using asked. for sure you know making is it for people so can i talk

a little bit about the difference between. the western culture trends and the chinese because western culture the way i see it centers around individual and individual needs. and then from what i understand of the chinese culture it's much more socially elevated it's much more collective so when i hear you because you're saying you're a refugee of the world because they can't go back to china but mostly you live in the western part of the world so when you protest the existing establishment anywhere you go in the west do you think. this is the chinese background coming into play because you're talking about things that matter not only to you but to other people. who flew. in from the understanding. in the old tradition. just they have this kind of. belief so that

individuals to more relate to. your merriment could be nature could be larger understanding of the right or wrong which is beyond the so-called individual undergarment so in the west i think individuals become. the point it's not the individual let them see what happens in the west the so-called individual is opposing is not really a strong. democratic society and under the freedom of the individual. just on top of your had would you say there is such place on planet earth where is there is like a perfect democracy individual freedom self expression is there such a place on our planet yes there is such places in the individual the more human

rights or freedom of expression. in my heart he told us why. fight for my dream and i don't see that would. become our reality while while protecting my heart so we agree that there is no such country or playing on earth which would be like this perfect democratic habit no i don't think so i think all the so called of the. have today is to leave leave me the suffer of the place so you pretty sad pretty to understand the the people become selfish and very narrow minded but we're going to take a break right now when we're back we'll continue talking to legendary i way way.

most people thing to stand out in this business you need to be the 1st one on top of the story or the person with the loudest voice of the biggest raid in truth to stand out on the lose business you just need to ask the right questions and demand the right answer. question.

we're back with a way so i want to talk a little bit about you and you know what happened to you and what formed you as its huge figure in today's contemporary art. forceful in your own words what is the difference between the expectations of an artist in china and in the west because you were in china before you were persecuted you were also a huge figure. what is the society expect from an artist there and here society has backed artists to be part of the party's propaganda machine of course you are not directly employed the party but you cannot see which party some like their hero how did it that's why i got all candor trouble and under that's all i'm being forced out for my own nation in the west under the name of freedom every individual is encouraged or to do their own was thinking but. it's

not said relevant or meaningful or made people very spoiled. and the people are not renewing their living conditions and the true state of mind. i know you once said that had you not been harassed by the government. maybe you wouldn't be this famous team you said that right yes that's true so do you feel like if you weren't persecuted back then by the chinese government you wouldn't be this huge figure in the art will just because of your art. is hard to measure. if you just measure heart it's far more. than has much more meaning than what we generally seeing in the western society. but they just don't have the measurement to measure my heart you know i have to use the

same kind of measurement they measure to try to enter the system. be more precise what is in your art that the west doesn't see because they don't have that i rinsed with it i see art as. desperately seeking the truth which is always the value which art has been caustic hart has being from chris. morrow about cold conditions and no i think the come to practice have lost because they are not for all of those issues and the so they don't understand what. what do you think they seniority if they don't see any of the what you've just said and see i think of what they see from art partially because i'm a person more use to. a sarky or

or see my works in some. or i'm comfortable situation. for general. practice in the west so you're saying they see this just cool guy who is not afraid to speak out and because the western ballot is sort of mean that there must be a rebel here and there that's why they can hear you just to have you paraded as the guy who rebels but really don't see beyond that you know i think the i think of the and they're used to it but under used to admit to me they see me more like a rock star or some you know underpayment guy to blame them i don't blame them you know people who only see what they can see and appreciate this suhasini. but if we flip it from the other side from the government side i

always think about it and i don't have an answer why is it that. government that is criticized through art any government is so afraid of it i mean art does not organize protests or strikes or art doesn't help win or lose elections and yet every time any government does anything against art on the contrary it amplifies the problem and actually plays in the hands of the artist or the art why is it that governments are so afraid and not able to sort of you know ignore the japs you make by art i think you ask him very good question here. i think art cannot be harm for it doesn't demonstrate some march but the art provides a way open to. provide. value judgement so as not to tube which. she can the foundation

of the legitimacy of the governing and that's a very dangerous all of the kids on the all the powerful people and by the. and. be posed for them so try to be honest here when you got backlash by the cover i don't have to try to be honest here because sometimes i try to be honest but somehow i have so many layers that only one layer in me speaks because i thought so much about your life so you got backlash from the government and you were under house arrest and potentially would go to prison and you didn't know how you would end up like you had no guarantee that you'll be sitting here in berlin you mean to write did you at any point and it point out that i have only one life and this art that doing is not worth it it's not worth

this what i'm going through i don't see. only by doing been doing i recognize what's the by little from are you you know yes the this is the obvious automatic wisemen of life because either polish it and you know also we have to be so my my you moment make me. want to live. can i go live there. i understand how you would say this now but is this the way what you are thinking back then when you're under house arrest having no guarantees you would get out. this question i was deeply regret i don't have someone or something come protect myself and come and come to you should the holy spirit and the bird dark that's why. i'm

always scared boys to the people in the country should you cause us a hopeless make you a group grab a bottle what are you doing. so here's another. emotional question because there's a general perception that big masters no matter with its visual arts or poets or writers or directors they usually cannot create as well outside of their country as they can on their soil and you started this interview by saying i want to go back to china because that's where i belong do you feel like your art would be even grander different if you were able to do it on your own soil . i i feel in the same way i think for writers pressure writers i think my so also us are writers you loose so much porn dot for me omar's you know it's like a tree and you feel

a big tree that's more dangerous if you have small tree of course you can move to and your words through kind so why so i have so much. and what people say me my performance in the west may be less than 5 percent i can really achieve or even much less or if i have the earth's orbit the sun shy or the wind the computer much. better performance. i want to turn back to fighting the systems again because whether it's china america or heroes it is still a system so much work to craddick there is are more democratic but it's a system so for an artist who is living in this it's not somewhere in a jungle right. it's always a dilemma because you're part of you know this whole string of curators exhibitions galleries grants but then you have to criticize that that feeds you

do you ever have that de lima i don't i don't see they feed me i think i'm probably some kind of poison you but. they don't feed me nobody feed me i feed myself and also i don't care about the system at. words i'm going to use but about. not the way i would ever have one more except not it's not. so you have a 10 year old son and i've heard once again you said that he once said no more i will wait because he was like not into the whole political art do you ever think that you are getting carried away with your art and he want to say. way way come on no more i will wake you yourself a break is telling me. all the time but i do have some responsibilities or feel you know there's the people. asking

me your voice please be there please stay so but i have to make this kind of balance much so called the private a lot of. trial would. contribute to the struggle. you know the attorney will question is comparing contemporary art and what you say protest art or social art with traditional art for instance. or renoir or by levy i mean we agree both that it's arts right of course malaria revolutionary art but there are much more about self taking and self reflection rather than i don't know a political statement in your art or protesting what do you think when it comes to arts today is more relevant and more poignant self digging or

making a statement that is commenting on a certain event. if you statement why because to be created by the system already through certain cultures under certain establishment and. questioning those who said to them an establishment you cannot really create your own true self. so let's say i don't know they get as ballerinas that's not real art because it doesn't conflict an existing system i think it's not so relevant what impression no. art has. in general. to the past but there are what they're. not so relevant at once said that there is no greater value for the piece of art than art itself that

a poem is actually written for nothing else other than the desire to write it. was a doll set that there is no art for the sake of art which side you're on a doll or edgar allen poe has into there's no art just. i think art is already used by ideology. liberal or conservative pope's or us. and also there's always individual announcement. of the practice so. it's just like a real world. way thank you very much for this interview in a pleasure talking to you and i wish you all the best in knowing future endeavors thank you so much such a pleasure. join

me every thursday on the alex simon chill and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. they head off isis isn't decapitated but dog. ideology is still. regrouping they have sleeping cells not on the head in iraq but in syria too so we have to did with this problem actually for long term as was bin ladin wasn't

a copy but then was offered to so i think the same logic applied to this terrorist organization which have a global. or i suggest as a call the reverse hunger games then reverse hunger games are randomly picked $10.00 to $15.00 billionaires every year and strip them of everything get it down to 0 and course i'm out there and make it into the world of commerce and see if they can build it up scratch again introduce risk back into the american capital system because once you have a certain amount of money there's no more risk you're just clipping coupons for vanity and you have no stake in the game whatsoever. the trump and hearings have begun for all the public to see analysis from all the angles on this edition of politic.

politicking on larry king the impeachment inquiry of donald trump has moved into the public phase voters now have an opportunity a big of their own mind on the president's actions based on the steady stream of testimony from diplomatic and defense experts for analysis. on this what we've seen so far and for just some idea of how we've gotten to this point in the 1st place i'm joined by ken adelman he formerly served as ambassador to the united nations and on as control director under president reagan he accompanied him on several summits between reagan and the former soviet leader mikhail gorbachev it's a pleasure to have his expertise on all of this he joins us from washington thank you for doing this can it's good to see a larry you.