people have lives as well. as you said my world really relieved my south experience and. struggle are people struggle it changed my life and also i'd be bound if it's me would have benefits people but do you do you feel like it's your mission to change other people's life with your art or this is not something that. it's not something i'm looking for you know i'm not. certain you know my art for certain political go but i do believe really mean. being. this international for change and it's always there so i'm very happy to be part of it so when we talk about contemporary art and here we are because i'm not

a person who sees contemporary art and loves it and there are very few people who are like that actually because contemporary art is usually not a visual thing it's more about the concept behind it and unless that concept is explained you don't really understand why that installation is there or why this painting is here and there are a lot of people like me who are very visual people and they don't get conceptual art unless someone like you are an artist is there to explain do you feel like. that art should be more adapt to people so that we understand it's more easy to for us to understand more accessible i think you're right i would not say i like contemporary art. practice my art could be related to tradition really too clear old a concept and most of the combat berard. it's just the rubbish it's not really designed the for the people there i reckon they push

people away under the lead of the dart has nothing to do with ordinary people which is a very sad situation yes also there's a problem with what i see as contemporary art because it's supposed to be the most liberal of self expression places but then somehow there is a complete dictatorship of the law with then that specter off contemporary art. for instance you can say this is art and if you're an artist and you say this is supposed to be a that this is art and then where do you make. that the difference whether is real art or not how do you make that difference temporary for me in the judgement is how real it can be and not have it really motions really being in the real world of a free it's a real struggle but the so-called liberals are very often is also dictatorship

the liberal idea which is a very large and no one has nothing to do with or really struggle. i've spoken to many people during my career and there was a period when i was interviewing war reporters a lot and i would ask them why are you doing this because they would keep going back and back to hot spots and making this scary but amazing photos and then come back home and go to a psychiatrist all the time and not able to have a normal life and they're like well because we feel like if we capture the review deal and we show the horror to the whole world this will change things and wars will stop and i mean i don't want to discourage them but wars don't stop they don't and same for like. the something that you were doing i mean it can be a protest against i don't know fires in amazon chinese system hong kong protests anything but does it play make you sad that it's not going to actually change to

real course of events. my own for i feel sad because so you feel. there's not much been changed if you know what should be changed it's never really going to be changed or at the same won't be change in the short time but when you become part of the dog assad best butter refuse to defend itself and not to become a part of something i don't believe me. some of us the protesting this stablish men dislike in your way and some would think that you know you would only criticize the chinese government but then you don't. make it is it for the white house or the for the european establishment did you ever think that at some point you could separate the political aspects from your art or you don't see your art at all without the

political aspects. i don't see my arc or subhuman struggle on the harley to go as practice very strong part of our human struggle so my art has not. just not just about. my art it's about humor it's about the freedom of speech to be jews freedom so they would always take the struggle and you were as a matter europe or china so what you were saying fits perfectly the definition of the world word dissident do you consider yourself a descendent was born i think it's so in your own words what's a dissident because for us people with with the soviet background would automatically think about salt cellars units in with think about socket of and in the eighty's when there are statues were actually normalized they came back and they started criticizing their liberators you know because this is

a perpetual motion they would say what is in your own words a dissident and the mission of a dissident i think of the. individual's judgment always relate to human rights and human conditions and. to reflect seem very different political conditions and be alone be individual oh yes in what sense like alone a little wider. alone won't fight or even terms of intellectual judgment you know you know you're not easy to just be yourself and you kind. judgment but really come out for your own experience. so basically always make it super uncomfortable for the system that is whatever at this time it is that your existing right now and you know i think. if i can i want to make them

uncomfortable. well. always questioning the existence of a power to see if there are that your temperament you for the be. there for the people so i've been here for a week in berlin and what i found out that i was going to interview i told some of my german friends i'm going to interview and way way and it's like what can you asking why he's being you know so snobbish about berlin because we love same when we welcomed him here and we gave him the ways and space to work and it was like this. safe haven for him and now he's saying germany's not tolerant enough so i'm going to move to u.k. so do you see how germans may think that you are great for all that doesn't matter when it comes to self-expression and art it doesn't matter nobody comes by me that's a problem if they'd give me a space that's totally wrong i wrote good germans very south center.

they're not open for deeper discussions i don't like that kind of this and i don't like to be decorative for german society of course the they have many good characters but that's not what i appreciate a pretty sure a real intelligent individual struggle so you're moving to united kingdom from what i got there right while i'm moving to and you were a refugee of the world you know i can go to russia kind of go to india and you were but i cannot go back to my nation. that's my problem so i knew where it was to me this is a saying so i sent german to be stunned the sending. me you know i'm not use it past. 3 sure you know making is it for people so can i talk a little bit about the difference between. the western culture trends and the chinese because western culture the way i see it centers around individual and

individual needs. and then from what i understand of the chinese culture it's much more socially elevated it's much more collective so when i hear you because you're saying you're a refugee of the world because they can't go back to china but mostly you live in the western part of the world so when you protest in the existing establishment anywhere you go into west do you think. this is the chinese background coming into play because you're talking about things that matter not only to you but to other people. who flew. in from the understanding. in the old tradition. they have this kind of. believe so that individuals to more relate to. the environment could be nature could be larger understanding of the region right or wrong which is just beyond the

so-called individual and the government so in the west i think individuals become. the point is not the individual that you see. the west the so-called individual as opposing is not really a strong democratic society and under the freedom of the individual. just on top of your had would you say there is such place on planet earth where is there is like a perfect democracy individual freedom self expression is there such a place on our planet yes there is search place in the individual of the more human rights or freedom of. in my heart he told us why. fight for my dream and i don't see that would ever going to become

a reality while while protecting my heart so we agree that there is no such country or player on earth which would be like this perfect democratic heaven no i don't think so i think all the so called the. have today is the lead leaving the sufferer of the place so you fully separated to the understanding the people become of a selfish and very narrow mind where we're going to take a break right now when we're back we'll continue talking to legendary i way way.

your government and our government and all the other major governments of the world know what's going to happen and when it's gone. but they haven't told you and they haven't told me they haven't announced. imagine something as big as the earth. is going to cause tidal waves earthquakes volcanoes erupt and it's going to chill. so very for a while right. my great grandfather's quote. nobody would care about the law or prison so you'd have lawlessness should have. a terrible life between now and.

what holds are things to do something to. put themselves on the water to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president. or some want to. have to be right to be 1st that's what before 3 of them or can't believe that i'm interested in the waters of our. first shouldn't. say to my hardest you were dashed 1st to care but if it's a. daughter she. watches you've. got a regular ricky. they

say cunning too because he my son is holy if they say i can make us tell us if they survive has suddenly become one thing my mother 100 neighbors who. sent. him on the hook in the movie as a bozo but was unable to what is it is you guys who said come see. ya so you don't get off your mayor who's young they have. the i.c.c. must milk the soup. is still so not a sin and. we simply couldn't see.

we're back with a way so i want to talk a little bit about you and you know what happened to you and what form to you as a huge figure in today's contemporary art. forceful in your own words what is the difference between the expectations of an artist in china and in the west because you were in china before you were a persecutor you were also a huge figure. what is the society expect from an artist there and here society has

backed artists to be part of the party's propaganda machine of course you are not directly employed the party but you cannot see which party some like the hero how did it that's why i got all candor trouble and that's all i'm being forced out for my own nation in the west under the name of freedom every individual is encouraged or to do their own was thinking but. it's nice and relevant or meaningful or made people very spoiled. and the people who knew the living conditions and the true state of mind. i know you once said that had you not been harassed by the government. maybe you wouldn't be this famous. you said that right yes that's true so do you feel like if

you weren't persecuted back then by the chinese government you wouldn't be this huge figure in the art will just because of your art. is hard to measure. if you just measure by heart it's far more. than has much more meaning they don't want to be generally seeing in the western society. but they just don't have the measurement to measure my heart you know i have to use the same kind of measurement they measure to try to enter the system. be more precise what is in your art that the west doesn't see because they don't have that i rinsed with it i see art is the. best currently seeking the truth which is always the value which art has been caustic hart has being from chris. morrow about cold conditions and no

i think the comedown period practice have lost because they are not for all of those issues and the so they don't understand what. so what do you think they see new art if they don't see any of the what you've just said and see i think one of these are partially because i'm a person who reads my boy use to talk against a sarky or or see my works in some i'm familiar in this or i'm comfortable situation. for general. practice in the west so you're saying they see this just cool guy who is not afraid to speak out and because the western ballet this sort of means that there must be a rebel here and there that's why they can hear you just to have you paraded as the guy who rebels but really don't see beyond that you know i think the i think you

stupid under used to admit to me they see me more like a rock star or some you know underpayment guy to blame them i don't blame them you know people who only see what they can see and i appreciate this suhasini. but if we flip it from the other side from the government side i always think about it and i don't have an answer why is it that. government that is criticized through art any government is so afraid of it i mean art does not organize protests or strikes or art doesn't help win or lose elections and yet every time any government does anything against art on the contrary it amplifies the problem and actually plays in the hands of the artist or the art why is it that

governments are so afraid and not able to sort of you know ignore the japs you make by art i think you ask him very good question here. i think art cannot be harmful or it doesn't demonstrate some march but the art provides a way open to. provide the question you know the value judgement so as not to tube which. shaking the foundation of the legitimacy of the governing and that's a very dangerous all of the kids on the all the powerful people and by the. and. the need for them so try to be honest here when you've got backlash by the cover i don't have to try to be honest here because sometimes i try to be honest but somehow i have so many layers that only one layer

in me speaks because i thought so much about your life so you got backlash from the government and you were under house arrest and potentially would go to prison and you didn't know how you would end up like you had no guarantee that you'll be sitting here in berlin you mean to write did you at any point and it point out that i have only one life and this art. doing is not worth it it's not worth what i'm going through i don't see. only by doing been doing i recognize what's the balliol from our youth you know yes we this is always the ultimate question of life either polish it and you know also we have to be so my my you moment make me recognize what life can be can i go

a little further you know this i understand how you would say this now but is this the way what you were thinking back then when you're under house arrest having no guarantees you would get out. this question i was deeply regret that i don't have someone or something come protect myself and that kind of company should. be in the very dark that's why. i'm always scared boys to the people in the country shouldn't because it's a hopeless make you'll regret about it what are you doing. so here's another. emotional question because there's a general perception that big masters no matter with it's visual arts or poets or writers or directors they usually cannot create as well outside of their country as they can on their soil and you started this interview

by saying i want to go back to china because that's where i belong do you feel like your art would be even grander different if you were able to do it on your own soil . i i feel in the same way i think for writers pressure writers i think myself also us are writers you loose so much. for real mars you know it's like a tree and a big tree that's more dangerous if you have small tree of course you can move to and your words to kind so why so i have so much rooted in china and what people say me my performance in the west may be less than 5 percent i can really achieve or even much less or if i have the earth's or some shy or when the computer much. better performance. i want to turn back to fighting the systems

again because whether it's china america or europe it is still a system somewhat to craddick others are more democratic but it's a system so for an artist who is living in this it's not somewhere in a jungle right. it's always a dilemma because you're part of you know this whole string of curators exhibitions galleries grants but then you have to criticize that that feeds you do you ever have that de lima i don't i don't see they feed me i think i'm probably fizzy some kind of poison you but. they don't feed me nobody feed me i feed off and also i don't care system had. words i'm not going to use but about. not the way i would ever have one more except not it's not. so you have

a 10 year old son and i've heard once again you said that he once said no more i will wait because he was like not into the whole political art do you ever think that you are getting carried away with your art and he want to say. way way come on no more i will wake you yourself a break is telling me. all the time but i do have some responsibilities or i have to appeal you know there's the people. ask me be your voice please be there please stay so but i have to make this kind of balance much so-called the private life i would have. contributed to the struggle. you know the attorney question is comparing contemporary art and what you say protest art or social art with traditional

art for instance. or renoir or by levy i mean we agree both that it's art's right of course my levitra revolutionary art but there are much more about self thinking and self reflection rather than i don't know political statement in your art or protesting what do you think when it comes to arts today is more relevant and more poignant self digging or making a statement that is commenting on a certain event. if you self do you gain deep enough you have to make a political statement why because to be created by the system already through certain cultures under certain establishment and the. questioning of those who said to them in an establishment you cannot really create your own true self.

so let's say i don't know the big as ballerinas that's not real art because it doesn't conflict an existing system i think it's not so relevant what impression no . art has to it in general. to the past but there are one of the. not so relevant at their own poa one said that there is no greater value for the piece of art than art itself that a poem is actually written for nothing else other than the desire to write it. as a doll set that there is no art for the sake of art which side you're on a doll or. as into there's no art just a product. i think art is already being used by different ideologies. liberal or conservative pope's or us.

and also there's always individual announcement. of the practice so. this is the michel roux world. where we thank you very much for this interview and in a pleasure talking to you i wish you all the best in knowing future endeavors thank you so much such a pleasure so. time

after time called parisian to repeat the same mantra sustainability it's very important. transitions to sustainable transport sustainability. in more equitable and sustainable well. they claim that production is completely hamas. not. companies want us to feel good about buying their products while the damage is being done far away and this is something i'll just keep going to mean and i mean look. we didn't. understand what.

was. this hour's headlines stories a mob of hong kong government activity in the territories justice minister in london pushing her reset chang to the brother leaving her oddly shaken. 2 teenagers are dead 3 others injured following a school shooting in los angeles that occurred on the very morning the suspect turned 60. on child up.