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hello and welcome to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle those who consume corporate media will believe the bolivian army rightfully overthrew the democratically elected president of bolivia the word coup is not mentioned but this is exactly what happened the tried and tested color revolution playbook was on display for anyone paying attention libya's democracy is in retreat . talking bolivia i'm joined by my guest bubble know what at the in london he is a journalist and documentary filmmaker as well as coeditor of dot net an independent voice on latin american politics culture and media and why. washington we have what. she is an associate professor at the shar school of policy and government at george mason university and in santiago we crossed to francisco cohen

he is a political analyst as well as a former u.n. officer in asia and africa or across the uk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate by will let me go to you 1st in london i peruse the american media landscape about the events that happened in bolivia the coup i will use the word but they won't a.b.c. news morales resigned simply c.b.s. news because of weist widespread protests the new york times said because of an infuriated pop population fox news said people were angry over election fraud none has been shown to date and the miami herald well said that it was what was overthrown was a full blown dictatorship what's the media coverage in the u.k. i bet it's similar. very much so i mean i think the british media and this this includes from the riots the so-called progressive left have been very much on the playing the fact that it's the coup that was taken place in bolivia they talk of a power vacuum they talk of resignation but they don't really use the word coup and

i think this is not surprising for anyone that's been looking at the media the british media is reporting on that's in america and especially on the left and lots of america very much echoes the u.s. media which again very much codes there seems to be a correlation between the degree to which a country is an official enemy of the u.s. and the degree to which they were saved hostile reporting from the u.s. and u.k. media what a low pay this is remarkably similar to what we saw in you goes in serbia you go slavia what we saw in ukraine in 2014 and now we're seeing it in bolivia this is this. color revolution playbook it's remarkably similar in each one of these cases . here you have these fake n.g.o.s fake social. social groups that are supported by foreign money training and of course we have the military that all

of latin america's military is trained in the united states so there's so many different avenues to go after a government and bolivia's was open to it i want to talk about maybe why i'm the realest didn't have more fire walls because they've been doing it to venezuela for a while now they've been able to push back he wasn't go ahead but a little thing. absolutely i mean the democratic card or or the or fight for them ocracy is just like faking with this really happening. the mexican government recognized abased. this events as i mean this event as a coup and that's and actually we could see how the elites prepare the to happen but in reality the basis i mean this was not this was not arrested nation from the president when the military forest this is a president that i mean retired i mean takes out its support if you know it doesn't leave any space and mexico was very i mean the mexican president the mexican

minister for the 1st was very straightforward this is a coup and so that's why we are assigning political asylum to the believe the president will morales definitely this is the resoled of a so-called color revolution or a revolution for the market that turned into a good at that and there's no question about that and of course the media covering it correctly you know francisco you talk about some of the opposition leaders here i think the truth were known about their ideology and their own worldview people would be and should be shocked but nobody's ever told about neo fascist ideas and ties to these types of groups in the past i mean it's all out there if you want to know but the media won't report it francisco talk about that. well if i should miss a word. we spoke very much used you know the american political some and i mean the people are afraid i mean even the left is pretty sure he's afraid of the use of the word fascism because you know it to no 10 jobs would be

a very aggressive definition of the political moment but basically what the usa is doing going to. germany and premises in that region is to apply to use fascist forces in the region. structure to speak if fascist country coach i mean this is. a loss for the singers i mean. it's a very racially. and i believe the sense i mean. was there. you know there was a kind of a. cover up of sort of say very shoe main. what i was trying to say what country has made a very strong progress in eradicating races but it wasn't the case i mean racism expression sessions and this person does a game where i was you know pablo it let's go back to london i mean if you look at

the stats of the time that this was in power i mean any politician would be very gratified about that a legacy dealing with poverty dealing with the literacy it's really quite extraordinary some of the things that he did now my viewers know very well i am a conservative and i am not a supporter of socialism however i am a supporter of success and i'm a supporter of democracy and this is what people voted for and given given the logic that the last election wasn't fair then why don't you just let him finish his term ok and where is the evidence there was fraud there's none been presented to the public that i'm aware of go ahead in london. i think the most robust exploration of the publicly available and that. because by the sea think tank in washington a show that's absolutely no evidence of fraud no i think what i just made a mistake inviting the amp to bolivia the oas has completely

discredited any any type of little legitimacy it had on the loose become an open supporter of the far right and the regime change operations in that most notably in venezuela and really this is not about whether a government does well in terms of socio economic indicators macroeconomic indicators believe it did very well but it's not really about that it's about any government that tries to reassert a degree of sovereignty over its economic policy over its political decision making that tries to incorporate previously marginalized sectors into the political process will come up against the u.s. government's interest and its local allies this is happened remember francisco is in chile the birthplace of neo liberal capitalism where supposedly came through by force and we talk about fascism the pinochet dictatorship the greed to which they've forced fascistic policies torture huge gross human rights violations this

is the model which is hedge of money it was born in chile in 1973 it's what people in chile today are trying to change and have there's a mass uprising which is being brutally repressed of course the oas and the us government don't have any qualms with going along with the right wing pineta government in bolivia they will they will come up with all manner of excuses to justify the use atrocity that's taken place what a little bit can you just briefly tell our viewers what outside forces were involved in this illegal coup overthrowing a democratically elected government go ahead in d.c. . if this very interesting because. like the one that we felt it cannot take place if you don't have supporters and they're finitely they organization of american states show on. well we're talking about. some involvement of the international community led by possibly the united states. and the recognition of the no self declared president. of bolivia

receiving support and the recognition that that that that the elections can take place without a levy and electing this person as a president and the problem is that. when you recognize when when the united states recognizes a government that was not elected and does not recognize. it you know it just defies these this takeover of government so there finitely here there are players that are you know very well recognized that are supporting the of. of a country that has over 40 percent of the total resort of supply and you know what and natural resources that we need to take into account you know francisco can you talk about there i mean you know 1st of all i think it's ideological and i think problem really well any government that wants to be do maintain its sovereignty and be able to determine its destiny is always a target to be used tactics here but there is an economic angle to this here and

the bolivian government was beginning to work closely with countries like china is this a tipping point where you say this is that when they make this move because this was being planned for a long time they're doing it with venezuela they're doing it with nicaragua. it is the timing of this a coincidence i don't know what i'm just asking you go ahead well the u.s. to enter one. burner even as well cuba of course. america rebounder me. come on and i mean the they are paranoid regarding the rebirth. in the region time. and secondly there are birth of ptolemy or independence in that sense i mean i mean it. started again it's a colonial policy towards the region or so for america i mean this and and they

feel that they have to take care of the solvent in this fear. in the tree. was their responsibility and the europe that for africa japan asia and the usa it's a plank in the pacific i mean in terms of the cold and go on to so and this is a standard policy in american foreign policy to control and now they've lost the will they lost to the new guy rob ford the last of the cuban venezuela the last of argentinos never sure that's going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the libya state with r.t. .

time after time called aeration to repeat the same mantra sustainability very important to excel or transition to sustainable transport sustainability stay in her manner more equitable and sustainable world. they claim their production is completely harmless. the big. companies want us to feel good about buying their products while the damage is being done far away this is something else this has been done even on. in the us and we do. understand that with.

welcome back to cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing bolivia. ok let's go back to london with my question i will date myself unfortunately but i remember very well i was a young man very young i been and been politically active for a long time aware of politics but i remember the military dictatorships ok in south america and how the us would say give the people the voice bring democracy to the region it will bring prosperity eccentric cedrick well now we've had democracy for for 2 generations and shocks people vote the wrong way it's amazing the evolution of the of the democratic idea for the western hemisphere because when people vote the wrong way they get punished go ahead in london absolutely i mean with the

famous quote by nixon i believe will kissinger that was when the chileans voted in again the in 1970 was which we were the irresponsibility of the chilean people. you know we won't let that get in the way of what we want so it was something that i was i think you're also said that he would make the economy how all i think it was a term you know scream scream he said you know and these are the kind of recipes that the u.s. government has for an acting regime change we've seen that with the sanctions in venezuela but just quickly going back to the issue of lithium i mean i think again to make an interesting comparison between chile the number one current world producer in lithium where the pineta government effectively hands over lithium production to. western multinationals with no value added in chile in bolivia the the that modellers government was attempting to create an industry where value was added within the country as we know it said the lithium is the fuel of the of the future essential for electric cars and it was

a very complicated process because of partly because of the type of scenery there is in bolivia and western companies had been unable to accept that the moms that the mothers government had put on on coming into partnerships with with the government and the government had turned to chinese companies and then also i think also this is a very interesting part of the story which is the degree to which this new cold war between china and the u.s. how things are playing out in bolivia that might have affected the decision to sort of up the ante in terms of getting rid of modalist by the u.s. government what a little bit you know we could use the venezuela example is that a not allowing the venezuelan government approves of its own exports i mean you have the u.s. government taking over venezuelan companies and they get the cash not for the government so it looks like this is also a tried and tested pattern not allowing these countries to profit from their own

natural resources mazing go ahead. exactly and again this is this is this is enough for us to pair with the elites of a country there for your question who is behind this economic interests that are connected to foreign governments not what itis was able to provide for its people to get the highest rates of growth in the whole continent and a great distribution of resources for for the people in bolivia and unfortunately now as in the case of venezuela venice what on colombia had a history where the elites were connected to the military and were connected to foreign powers so they can profit from the sun and resources they didn't get to the to the people when leftwing governments were governments and were more connected to the people arrived that generated a lot of unrest from the elites but now the elites are able to i mean to pair with with foreign governments with foreign companies this is going to go back to

what. they history a country like libya where their resources and go to the people you know francisco what happens next to the bolivian people i mean what i was was obviously a popular figure i mean even his detractors cannot deny that ok even if they want to call him a dictator he was the people supported him here what is going to happen to these people now because up until the his leaving office for mexico there were there were his party there were officials in his party that were there the houses were being victims of arsonists we had members individuals that were tortured publicly i mean this is to some of them information i've gleaned from sources like the gray zone which i encourage our viewers to look at. which we highlighted in this program before what's going to happen to the people who are going to be a retribution is there's going to be some kind of lustration i mean it was morales's government to mean it's going to be completely cleaned out go ahead and

santiago. well i think it's more of a quick departure or spectacle it because he will threaten to do we're going to be killed i particularly are fairly narrow and other going to be very hard i mean new pressure on the games come when it's unplugged. first one but if they show will grow. the country will get very fermented politically speaking on mosul in. return terms because there will be in the event the indians or the indigenous people you could mark the us people will get marginalize completely from the benefits i mean it's going to be a rat's. against those measures so they're going to these months will socialist policies whatever socially is where functioning there in terms of distribution of resources so i think would be not chaos but the press which is your point

the press the western press would. and they believe in pretty hard i think we have to do to go for programs at your school board press and to get it and to dig into these iceberg which is not the iceberg to read a good metaphor because i believe you've said it very hot country but is it going to be a sick day or of faking you know of lies and they're going to be you know what i call 'd it project cart against the leftists in bolivia definitely and this is the merriam policy but people are really from those policy speech trying to recall the very quickly want to in the region use the basic point in the region stop allowing certain states is fabulous in any regime against you say pretty much c. or germany. which is pretty bad because you know if you read steven ward's you're if john mayer sharman x.

and if you go to scientists i mean. parno america is making complimentary yeah well america i mean we're all in a in all all these regime changes in machinations do cause population movements in the united states will have itself to blame for that is well ok the immigration issue is very complicated but the u.s. there is itself no favors by meddling with its southern neighbors problem let me go back to you in line we started out the program talking about may simply white washing the events in bolivia and it kind of react to what francisco i did say i mean if there is a dirty war committed against the bolivian people we're not going to hear much about it from the mainstream are we absolutely no. i think the media need to the western brain stream media have to have a long look at themselves in the mirror i mean they haven't learned the lessons of iraq when they essentially went along and if you skated the reasons for the growth

you know human rights violations that followed the illegal occupation and invasion of iraq with a 1000000 with a 1000000 there if not more and they continue to systematically to store and misrepresent these processes in latin america and then you know we saw it with the coup against dilma rousseff in brazil when there was a kind of reporting that made it very nebulous around corruption and that and then they often selves years down the line how did we get to a situation where we have a fascist in power so there seems to be they want to have it both ways where they they kind of play the game go along with it obfuscate misreport and then once you have a far right leader like trump in the u.s. also nado in brazil they say oh how did we get to this position we don't know it was terrible you know we the liberal censor. completely against this so i think the media have. a very very. big role in the unfolding of events in how they report things and i think they need to take responsibility because what

they're doing now is really contributing to. and human rights abuses you're overly optimistic my friend i mean considering their behavior with all these foreign wars i mean i could spend a lot of dime you know syria comes to mind you're right shameful rule here what a loopy tell our viewers how they can find out what's really going on in bolivia i mentioned the gray zone which i encourage people to go to where else can they go to besides our g. and cross talk of course but we're else can they go to learn about these important events i will tell you something and this is because this is this gives me hope and that has to do with my country with mexico because the government of mexico has recognized that there is i mean that there was a coup in believe year and it's providing support to the government of i mean to the to the elected president of the levy or to have on what i list well he resigned but he is there and also mexico and the mexican media if they are you know they are

covering what's happening so i think i think the thoughtful media overall i see mexican government the mexican official communiques but also the social media blogs people there are conscious of what's happening you know i i think twitter every day i check it very frequently and people are conscious so i'm hopeful many people are not happy with what is happening in body and they are expressing their different and not in the mainstream media but people are seeing that there's something that's not right happening in our hemisphere ok francisco mexico is also well i mean the way they accepted morello's was a very honorable thing to do and openly express what really happened which was actually very positive for me because so many other governments want to francisco i'm going to give you the last word in the program one minute goes to you in santiago won't just you hold. i mean we could know what the

loop will show up with the media i mean the west and media liberal media have to challenge some people to need to know to go to the truth of the facts because they're contributing to this will be even confusion i mean western media by not revealing the reader what's happening and believe you it's going. to another you know way. they don't shoot. in the region. which is pretty close you know. but what they what i would also maybe the lot maal give myself the last word here is that what is being diminished the most is the very idea of participation in democracy the indigenous people of bolivia for the 1st time under their ex-president former president now had that opportunity and that shouldn't be denied anyone no matter what your skin color is or your views you

should fight for democracy that's all the time we have many thanks to my guests in london washington and in santiago and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember. i'm going to fulfill your promise is probably to the people you know we've all pots.

you want to work. no. for being cut cut cut cut. cut cut cut cut cut coming out my yacht. your government and our government and all the other major governments of the world know what's going to happen and when it's going to go but they haven't told you and they haven't told me they haven't announced. imagine something as big as the earth . is going to cause tidal waves or earthquakes volcanoes are going to wrapped and it's going to chill. so very for

a while right. my great grandfather's. nobody would care about the law or prison so you'd have lawlessness should have. a terrible life between now and the. cool. cool. i. must say.

that. it was. kong's justice secretary is surrounded by a mob both antti paging out to bits joining a visit to london to raise a child was pushed to the ground and left badly shaken. only u.s. ambassador to ukraine claims she has become a target for the president and his allies as she testifies of the trial impeachment inquiry. and u.k. all star teams are accused of failing to protect the vulnerable migrant children from abusive practices including witchcraft due to concerns have a political correctness.