yeah that's hence why the little late within the american establishment. american democracy and this latest attempts to impeach donald trump really does appear surprised what is going on in america now turned into ukraine's peter june mikhail gorbachev's tenure in the kremlin he once remarked that there can be no circuit union without ukraine and indeed that accurate statement by who will shortz can can be equally applied to the russian empire namely without the ukraine that could not have been as artists and part for centuries the ukraine has been of absolute importance to moscow but if in recent communist times and present day times however pizza ukraine is also of enormous importance to america because not only does washington carve it the same dust through an agricultural sector as or

ukraine along with its black sea coast lines but american policymakers understand that by depriving the lusher of a close relationship with ukraine this will weaken europe and thereby we can in the world's ensure peter we've routes ukraine without a close relationship between russia and the ukraine the americans know that russia will never have the car if we want it in soviet times that is why the americans now have a foothold in ukraine and then not prepared to relinquish even if that means korean hundreds of millions of dollars each year the americans know this shit importance of it and look at nato pizza not only are they establish in a naval presence at odessa but they're also establishing a naval presence at another very important ukrainian pool which was established in soviet times washer cost. now that just demonstrates why ukraine is all so much

importance to america ok well we're back with you and you can see that if you crane ever joint snakes then russia will be legally and on its western borders ukraine is the missing piece in the jigsaw for america and now it's ok well clearly you know at the same time in you me if you going back to these hearings here if you got the impression that it's the united states that has to prove its bona fide is that it is a good our why of ukraine it's all upside down ok because we all know or anyone that knows something about ukraine now is that it's really intensely corrupt number one and number 2 the people of ukraine haven't been asked about this here ok i mean it seems everything is upside down it's the national security state that needs ukraine for 2 reasons to maintain it to maintain a rationale for its existence and to pointlessly antagonize russia has almost

nothing to do with ukraine in a sense nor. well a tough 1st it seemed rather simple to be. reflecting domestic issues obviously if you can present ukraine as a critical ally that's a just. neglect of ukraine or you know the so-called bullying or. against ukraine or was merely almost a sort of treason so throwing away a critical or strategic ally in order to get an upper hand on the bidens now i do think it to rest and also it's a strong international dimension obviously so or older office in 2002 and then to his book at a summit this was to mean what americans are pushing very hard to get. ukraine and georgia into nato but the europeans resisted knowing that yes this would be a strategic advantage or an expansion towards russia which would which could be a strategic blunder yeah oh it well the consequences would have to be bared by the europeans. this one has the creator which conflicts with russia so do you think

that this effort to. change the language in the sense of beginning to bring ukraine gradually in. reflects something much deeper than merely this community gets trump it what's really interesting here team is that if you if you kind of step back and you look at what's going on under the new president's alinsky he is making steps mall steps making steps to resolve the issue in the dharm pass it seems to me the american official them would be very happy with that they don't want to see peace as a matter they like to see this tension because they think it is a an impediment to russia an irritant to russia of course the people of the donbass don't simply exist in their minds they have no agency actually do have a lot of agency in it and over 13000 people have been killed most of them in the dark about so they know what this is all about here that dovetails into something that trump of said ever since that campaign resolving issues and i think there's

a minsky and trumps each other is partners in possibly doing that not this side show that we're seeing go ahead well you are right when you're saying 13000 people died and gone bust but you wouldn't know a lot of our dead from the hearings you know i read the hearings and they see just inaccurate information george of the state department says that ukraine isn't. just it's not just an abuse of power by the president but the harm he inflicted on ukraine a critical ally are the constant assault by russian forces more than $13000.00 ukrainians have died on your cranium soil defending their territorial integrity against the russian aggression fiction well so again 1000 people were killed this is the general number of people killed in eastern ukraine during the studio that started in 2014 a lot of these people are civilians live in don't you. and was killed by the there

was no russian aviation there there was all the ukrainian aviation they were killed by warps and misty can't lie to the congress when he says that they died defending the russian aggression this is just brute jury in fact you know he no no no i don't believe i should have said i have to push back but i mean this is a trial and we're going to look at it when he says that and said this many times i mean and the. markets in london i mean these these hearings when they talk about american foreign policy i had the strong impression that they were living in a time capsule i think they used the most regular normative cold war language and i'm going to agree with the me here i mean they have they have their lenses see russia and ukraine through a cold war a cold war a view that it's not what reality is all about they can't escape their ideological obsession here go ahead marcus. ok to our you sir hearings in america

and in particular here is concern in american foreign policy but do i attach much importance i don't know any i don't know. what american politicians have to say or indeed american civil servants or partners etc no i don't i don't believe in reality politics and real politics is brutal politics you know the americans care nothing about 13000 people haven't died in the donbass it matters a lot to have been hunted starts and they care nothing when many but 1000000 vietnamese civilians died because of the american aggression all that matters to american policymakers is ensuring that the russia of today which because of latin music losing is a superpower again is limited in its power and the americans ideally want to do radio russia's status today in the world as

a resurgent great power and to do that the americans understand as they have since the early $99.00 ceased when the credit became independent that depriving lusher of a close relationship with ukraine. really limits russia and it threw in some power on the international scene yet a pizza nato aircraft operate in song cheers could reach moscow in serious danger 20 minutes absolutely what hurts like a little booklet let me go to things that are going to go and hit one of the things i think interesting and they no one's talked about here is the. silence came in as a peace candidate and then take russian candidate everybody knows that you know in one overwhelmingly 7270 something to present. the meet with the behavior of these bureaucrats is railing that possibility they want ukraine to stay in a state of war are complex or agitation with rush it. they don't want to see the

end of conflict ok that's undermining his entire agenda here and one minute before we go to break well obviously they they they see the something as this conflict is beneficial in terms well for 2 reasons one militarizing ukraine that's this war against russia and pushing it further out of europe and the little voters don't like the last leg on that most of the voters don't see it that way in ukraine we know that yes but but it depends on who is whose interest in or whether or not this is really in america's interest or because by by pushing russia out of europe it's seeking now it's new partnerships in asia so i think. this is a bit of a strategic divide in the united states as well what they should focus on then i think you're right that to some extent this represents something from the past because russia's not the soviet union or the russian empire its ambitions and ability to dominate europe as are the whole continent is ludicrous these days so it is but they are creating

a new alliance which should be concerned for for the united states and that is putting russia and china are going to be a little bit ago to a short break here but you know ukraine is in talks with china with its role in belt and this is something the american senators and the political class don't seem to be aware of and it's very important we're going to go to a short break and out for that short break we'll continue our discussion and some real news stay with us. tough and i mean other people entire history month long way or both to assume because the ballot itself mukti if i. was in this way got to doubt it so hard not to think of the mother disappeared this moment the work of

a coward and an empty stomach and if. this is the only thing that we do is music because everybody fights in his way. through our you can call the fee on this bill frist woody allen called the ability to put a hold on the. what i think is this is the fund that is a constant. thought . what politicians do something to. put themselves on the line they get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president. or somehow want to. have to go right to the press this is what

the before 3 of them or can't be good. i'm interested always in the waters in the house. should. description sound up ties in even for the owners so to choose this pet food industry is telling us what to feed our pets really more based on what they want to sell us than was necessarily good for the pet turns out that food may not be as sophie as people believe and we have animals that have you know diabetes in arthritis they have auto immune disorders allergies we are actually creating these problems is a huge epidemic of problems all of them i believe can be linked to very simple problem of diet and some dog owners so heartbreaking stories about their pets less treats the larger corporations are not very interested in proving or disproving the

value of their food because they're already making a $1000000000.00 on it and there's no reason to do that research. is your media a reflection of reality. in a world transformed. what will make you feel safe. isolation for community. are you going the right way or are you being led. directly. what is true. is. in the world corrupted you need to descend. to join us in the. forum made in the shallows.

welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing some real news. ok let's switch gears here damon let me go to you 1st here. i've been watching western media coverage of the military coup in libya but almost nobody says a coup yes ok. it's it's kind of like another one of these 2014 you know just went away morale is just went away. they don't report on the fact that everything that is done has been done to force them out and the political events afterwards were against their own constitution against every single law when it comes to executive

authority and actually legislative authority in bolivia but everyone in media is oblivious to it as a matter fact it's bipartisan it's a good thing but it doesn't advance democracy there it's only tree thank you for making that very good parallel with ukraine because when they're talking about believing in washington or when they're talking about ukraine my impression is that these are blind people a part of them is aggressive bunch of them with less aggressive but they all don't understand what they're talking about like i read that you know in the family or which criticised. coverage of the ukrainian conflict they still say that you. was pro russian and against ukraine in their membership in nato or in the you know unocal which was not against if it was for a compromise and he had to flee because he feared for his life he could be killed by the same reason with more on this you know they keep saying vote do regular very curious you know them for some reason he had to go to mexico all well and for some

reason he didn't take the plane that well more or less said that if i took an american plane i would most likely land in one ton him or his words which unfortunately it may be true you know let me go let me go to marcus in london i mean the parallels here that we have been is weyler are really amazing except they didn't succeed in venezuela when you see the playbook it is exactly the same playbook you know these fake n.g.o.s here these fake human rights groups see you have election irregularities which nobody has proven at all there's been no evidence of it from the organization of american states they just said it ok and everybody just takes it for granted ok and at the same time the people who are taking control of bolivia have a deplorable record of racism against the indigenous people where our western liberal is defending these people they're not there marcus go ahead. yes i read the

newspaper coverage in the paper paid off the american engineer crew let's be more specific the cia engineer's coup against president morales and it made my stomach turn because conservative and liberal use papers painted a composer letelier deceptive picture all events in bolivia a betrayed president morales as almost too radical as someone who falsifies election results but that is no surprise let me tell you this between 2007 i was a writer on tribune and the editorial line of the tribune about time was one of jubilation at how latin america had largely speak in a letter to its socialist governments which wanted to really gain their political economic and cultural independence from america and who also wanted to forge close relations with. russia now lost in 2007 i was the light it at the success of

socialist parties across latin america i was a little bit more pessimistic or realistic because my opinion was that one day the american empire will shrug back america merican knows the u.s. knows latin america like i know my at chance the american the americans are playing the long game in latin america they have penetrated in 3 institution in free country or even decades on that concert and they know this peter that yes they could be times when anti american government's constant power but the americans have penetrated the establishment with those ok you know it let's markets one thing interesting thing you again i absolutely agree with you what you've said and let me turn to going here. marcus's description is perfect on the mark but he never used one word that's important democracy ok that's being denied here yeah and that tends to be the main visionaire is this could

a tie or is the democratic revolution you know which is a new word which so to some extent legitimizes. and i guess you could have a reasonable discussion of whether or not. not the rule of law would allow for marlice to stand for 4th term and you can even discuss this issue of work whether or not there has been any. irregularities with the votes however a lot of this arguments can become to some extent pointless because marla c. said ok well we can have another election we can have another election committee and we can also have it all under international supervision the un can come and go through everything organization of american states was his mistake that was the recommendation by the american or all the recommendations of the organization of american states so essentially he said deliberately everything but but what happened while you had the military forcing him to go and pulling away all these political allies and the military kicking him out and. and then you

have this senator. in the us who says. i am the new president and i guess it is the democratic revolution were just the rule of law and worst democracy because on his platform he put everything in place . not to speak back to ukraine but those to some extent what happened in the world which made this a deal really elections. are going to save the american states in believe you played the same with all as the e.u. in ukraine it pretended to be a mediator and in fact it was supporting one of the sides of the court and the e.u. made it possible for them i don't regime to oust the legally elected president you know they just didn't all of them commitments you know the. in ukraine the same story here when good moralists great when the commander in chief of the army william carr a monk made the following statement we suggest to the president that he resign his men date elo in the pacific asian or believe it that could come from general

pinochet in 1950 there was of the same language but what is very important you made a very good comparison with venezuela you know the united states has been accused of a 1000000000 for 8 to russia to china or keep president morales in bolivia did not ask for aid from russia and china he's economic rather the record is very good even his opponents the indigenous speaker seed that small and medium enterprises believe it was the poorest country in latin america he raised their want of people out of work so you cannot make the same because asians against you mr we make against one dural but asked for help and more others didn't and what happened to him so the same story as with colonel qaddafi in libya he did everything he needed everything in the asked the west asked him to do he designed and what happened to

him more or less did not ask russia and china for help and what happened to him so next time when the united states and they're going to say if an american states all the e.u. when they ask someone else stop asking russia and china and others you know stop asking them for rate that person will think twice before for when that advice workers will go back in london. is absolutely right i mean poverty extreme poverty was tackled with great success under morale as well i really do worry because 1st of all you have the military it's always dodgy when the military is calling the shots and then you have this political opposition that is intensely racist there are even fascistic backgrounds of some of these care. it's very well documented please go go to the gray zone for example i really worry about the people of bolivia particularly the people that are most vulnerable that make the move to head over the last decade are they going to fight to keep it or are we going to see some

kind of dirty war that's probably the worst case scenario go ahead marcus in london ok so you know as well as i do about the lightning deaf schools that america trains armed and supported it ultimately latin america during the 1980s also up to keep socialism out of latin america and secure the influence out of latin america and i would argue that is the case today that the americans will you know pay to what really turns my stomach is how british and american common states is talk about how in chiba venezuela and bolivia there are human rights abuses well excuse me one of the key subsets is of socialism in latin america as was the case of soviet communism has been education health and welfare that is a human rights many of the health systems for example the health system in chibok the least the health systems in the western world stand in but of course american

and british concept is do not care about the well settled we don't every people in latin america as they don't care about you don't we will say that all people in ukraine are what they care about is ensuring that we know our country can have influence in their backyard which is how he regards latin america rest and they do not want socialist scotland some it's not so it's an attempt to sting here in america so if i go to glen here i mean if you do have these you know you have instability intentional instability and in venezuela we have it now with bolivia. what you could see is. migration north i mean this is an investigational in the united states are you you can't have it both ways ok you can say you want to call the shots in latin america and not. experience the consequences there of. you know it's against similarities in europe you can't to topple all this

governments in north africa and middle east unless you can have a migrant crisis in the same applies in the united states obviously. i guess and point will be more of a concern than bolivia. but i guess i don't want to add as well that the presentation of the media of this find a quiet awareness is not going to william because well when these protesters are approaching protest what are the government they are peaceful protests or a state problem ocracy but as soon as he's toppled in a coup and loyal to him begin to protest this unconstitutional move a lot of power they become violent mobs and again going to dine we're not only cups then this is largely what happened in ukraine i saw that remember a costly one rejected or the association agreement with the e.u. you had all this protest and they were hailed by the even the americans you know giving a cookie is that they were you know pro-democracy them

a creditor of lucian and the taking over government buildings as soon as they had toppled in a good vision or something but not just the but when they had taken power and you saw the same happening in east thing we actually don't recognize the legitimacy of this post government there were villains mobs they want to live in having the agency they were just the kremlin and in this kind of legitimize going to russia over there with the country saying here is that me again we've all stressed your directly and indirectly mainstream corporate media please it's wall in these power plays here that's all the time we have gentlemen many thanks to my guest here in moscow and in london and thanks to our viewers for. watching this here are to see an extent to remember. what politicians do something to. put themselves on the line to get accepted or

rejected. so when you want to be president or injury. or somehow want to. have to go right to be cross as a white woman for 3 of them or can't be good. i'm interested always in the wives of my college. friends sydney. so. you of.

it's.

very well may continue you're watching us in such. a tense situation in venezuela is still all over the news the problem in venezuela is not that socialism has been poorly implemented but that socialism has been played only implement side things are different we're going to announce sanctions against a troll to venezuela socio. political moment belief in the tempest and political battle scene on the moon the people of the moment the focus of the who story isn't new makes him henry kissinger to tell him that it would not be tolerated in latin america. an alternative economic and social system could take hold and therefore the policy would be to make the.

economy scream so wants and making the economy of venezuela screed. quranic uses the u.s. if the pope crossing for supporting mass protests sparked by a hike in fuel prices. said the people of iran almost a year and a half ago the united states is with you i don't know people will not be taken advantage of by outsiders but economic pressure of the nation us democratic presidential candidates donald trump's decision to pardon american service members convicted of war crimes we look at how his predecessors have also absolved guilty of atrocities and we visit the border between denmark and sweden this checks have been imposed after bombings and shootings in copenhagen.