hello and welcome to cross talk we're all things are considered peter lavelle spoiler alert this edition of the program is not about the pietschmann drama instead we focus on ukraine and why our corporate media is so misleading about the military coup in bolivia. across talking some real news i'm joined by my guess and he is a professor at the higher school of economics as well as author of the decay of western civilization and resurgence of russia we also have dimitri bobbitt she's a political analyst and editor and interest me internet media project and in london we cross to marcus papadopoulos he's the editor of politics for a magazine all right gentlemen cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate i'm going to go to as usual the markets in london 1st here i hope you didn't waste too much time watching the congressional hearings over the last week it was a total waste of time it was

a kangaroo court but one thing that kind of struck me is that how and i didn't know this i didn't know that the united states and ukraine were the kind of strategic allies that they were made out to be on national television so tell me marcus when did this happen because as far as i know ukraine is not in nato the united states and ukraine have no treaty of self defense protecting each other and maybe none of these things exist they've never been debated but apparently according to these functionaries that's what spoke to adam schiff ukraine is an important strategic ally your thoughts my friend. well peter let me 1st of all to say this there is a clear sense of the little relates within the american establishment to some american democracy and this latest attempts to impeach donald trump really does appear surprised what is going on in america now turned into ukraine's peter june

mikhail gorbachev's tenure in the kremlin he once remarked that there can be no circuit union without ukraine and indeed that accurate statement by who will shortz can can be equally applied to the russian empire namely without the ukraine that could not have been as artists and part for centuries the ukraine has been of absolute importance to moscow but if in recent communist times and present day times however 8 ukraine is also of enormous importance to america because not only does washington carve it the same dust through an agricultural sector as or ukraine along with its black sea coast lines but american policymakers understand that by depriving the lusher of a close relationship with ukraine this will weaken europe and thereby

we can in the world's ensure pizza we've routes ukraine without a close relationship between russia and the ukraine the americans know that russia will never have the car if we want it in soviet times that is why the americans now have a foothold in ukraine and then not prepared to relinquish even if that means corridor hundreds of millions of dollars each year the americans know this shit importance of it and look at nato peter not only are they establish in a naval presence at odessa but they're also establishing a naval presence at another very. calls ukrainian calls. also calls now that just demonstrates why ukraine is all so much importance to america ok who knows what we're back of you and you can see that if you crane ever joint snakes then russia will be legally encircles on its western borders ukraine is the missing

piece in the jigsaw for america and now it's ok well clearly you know at the same time a new me if you going back to these hearings here if you got the impression that it's the united states that has to prove its bona fide is that it is a good our why of ukraine it's all upside down ok because we all know or anyone that knows something about ukraine knows that it's really intensely corrupt number one and number 2 the people of ukraine haven't been asked about this here ok i mean it seems everything is upside down it's the national security state that needs ukraine for 2 reasons to maintain it to maintain a rationale for its existence and to pointlessly antagonize russia has almost nothing to do with ukraine in a sense no and well as a tough 1st it seemed rather simple to be. reflecting domestic issues so obviously if you can present ukraine as a critical ally that's a just neglect of ukraine or you know the so-called bullying or. against ukraine

or was merely almost a sort of treason so throwing away a critical or strategic ally in order to get an upper hand on the bidens now i do think it to rest and also as a strong international dimension obviously so or older office in 2002 and then to his book at a summit right this was the main what americans were pushing very hard to get. ukraine and georgia into nato but the europeans resisted knowing that yes this would be a strategic advantage or an expansion towards russia which would which could be a secure. blunder yeah well the consequences would have to be bared by the europeans. this one has to create huge conflicts with russia so i do think that this effort to. change the language in the sense of beginning to bring ukraine gradually in. reflects something much deeper than merely this working against trump

it what's really interesting here team is that if you if you kind of step back and you look at what's going on under the new president's alinsky he is making steps mall steps making steps to resolve the issue in the dharm pass it seems to me the american official them would be very happy with that they don't want to see peace as a matter they like to see this tension because they think it is a an impediment to russia an irritant to russia of course the people of the donbass don't simply exist in their minds they have no agency actually do have a lot of agency in it and over 13000 people have been killed most of them in the dark about so they know what this is all about here that dovetails into something that trump of said ever since that campaign resolving issues and i think that minsky and trump see each other is partners in possibly doing that not this side show that we're seeing go ahead well you are right when you're saying 13000 people died and gone bust but you wouldn't know about it from the hearings you know i read

the hearings and they see just inaccurate information. of the state department says that ukraine isn't. just it's not just an abuse of power by the president but the harm he inflicted on ukraine a critical ally are the constant assault by russian forces more than $13000.00 ukrainians have died on your cranium soil defending their territorial integrity against the russian aggression fiction well so 1000 people were killed this is the general number of people killed in eastern ukraine during the. started in 2000. and 14 a lot of these people are civilians live in donetsk and lugansk killed by the there was no russian aviation there was all the ukrainian aviation they were killed by bombs and mystic can't live to the congress when he says that they died defending the only answer russian aggression this is just brute jury in fact you know he'll

know if i get a little i don't want so i have to push back but i mean this is a growing we're going to look at going he says that and said this many times i mean and that made us the markets in london i mean these these hearings and they talk about american foreign policy i had the strong impression that they were living in a time capsule i think they used the most regular normative cold war language and i'm going to agree with the me here i mean they have they have their lenses see russia and ukraine through a cold war a cold war a view that it's not what reality is all about they can't escape their ideological obsession here go ahead marcus. ok to our you sir hearings in america and in particular here is concerned in american foreign policy but do i attach much importance i don't know any i don't know. what american politicians have to say or indeed american civil servants or planners etc no i don't i don't believe in

reality politics and real politics is brutal politics you know the americans cared nothing about 13000 people haven't died in the dark past it matters a lot to have been hunted starts and they care nothing when many but 1000000 vietnamese civilians died because of the american aggression all that matters to american policymakers is ensuring that the russia of today which because of latin music losing is a superpower again is limited in its power and the americans ideally want to do radio russia's status today in the world as a resurgent great power and to do that the americans understand as they have since the early $99.00 ceased when the credit became independent that depriving lusher of the close relationship with ukraine. really limits russia and it threw in some our

on the international scene i met a pizza nato aircraft operating song q you could reach moscow in serious danger 20 minutes absolute worst of what hosts like booklet let me go to games that are going to go and hit one of the things i think interesting and they no one's talked about here is the. silence came in as a peace candidate and then take russian candidate everybody knows that you know in one overwhelmingly 7270 something to present. the meet with the behavior of these bureaucrats is the railing that possibility make they want ukraine to stay in a state of war are complex or agitation with rush it. they don't want to see the end of conflict ok that's undermining his entire agenda here and one minute before we go to break well obviously they they they see the something as this conflict is beneficial in terms well for 2 reasons one militarizing ukraine that's this war

against russia and pushing it further out of europe and the voters still on the most of the voters don't see it that way in ukraine we know that yes but but it depends on who was who is interesting or whether or not this is really in america's interest or because by by pushing russia out of europe it's seeking now it's new partnerships in asia so i think. this is a bit of a strategic divide in the united states as well what they should focus on then i think you're right to some extent does represent something from the pascoe's russia not the soviet union or the russian empire its ambitions and ability to dominate the europe as are the whole continent is ludicrous these days so it is but they are creating a new alliance which should be concerned for for the united states and that is putting russia and china will go but it will go to a short break here but you know ukraine is in talks with china with its role in belt and this is something the american senators and the political class don't seem to be aware of and it's very important we're going to go to

a short break about for that short break we'll continue our discussion and some real news stay with us. and we're going to fulfill the promises of politics to the people. you know we've all but. now you want to. know.

they. put themselves on the line they did accept the reject. so when you want to be president. wanted. to go right to the press this is what the 3 of them will be good. interested always in the water. welcome back across the uk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing some real news.

ok let's switch gears here damon let me go to you 1st here. i've been watching the western media coverage of the military coup in libya but almost nobody says yes ok. it's it's kind of like another one of these 2014 you know just went away morale is just went away. they don't report on the fact that everything that is done has been done to force them out and the political events afterwards who are against their own constitution against every single law when it comes to executive authority and actually legislative authority in bolivia but everyone in the media is oblivious to it as my fact it's bipartisan it's a good. thing but it doesn't advance democracy there it's only tree thank you for making that very good parallel with ukraine because when they're talking about believing in washington or when they're talking about ukraine my impression is that these are blind people a part of them is aggressive a part of them is less aggressive but they all don't understand what they're

talking about like i read that you know in. which criticised their coverage of the ukrainian conflict they still say that john mcwhorter each was pro russian and against ukrainian membership in nato or in the you know unocal which was not against it was for a compromise and he had to flee because he feared for his life he could be healed by the same reason with more on this you know they keep saying vote do regular very curious you know them for some reason he had to go to mexico and for some reason he didn't take the plane that well more or less said that if i took an american plane i would most likely land in one ton him or his words which unfortunately it may be true you know let me go let me go to marcus in london i mean the parallels here that we have been is weyl are really amazing except they didn't succeed in venezuela when you see the playbook it is exactly the same playbook you know these

fake n.g.o.s here these fake human rights groups see you have election irregularities which nobody has proven at all there's been no evidence of it from the organization of american states they just said it ok and everybody just takes it for granted ok and at the same time the people who are taking control of bolivia have a deplorable record of racism against the indigenous people where are western liberals defending these people they're not there marcus go ahead. yes i read the newspaper coverage in the paper it's all the american engineer it's clear let's be more specific the cia engineer's coup against president morales and it made my stomach turn because conservative and liberal use papers painted can politique deceptive picture all events in bolivia a betrayed president morales as almost too radical as someone who falsifies election results and that is no surprise let me tell you this between 2007 i was

a writer on tribune and the editorial line of tribune about time was one of jubilation at how latin america had largely speak in a letter to its socialist governments which wanted to really gain their political economic and cultural independence from america and who also wanted to forge close relations with russia now lost in 2007 i was the right it at the success of socialist parties across latin america i was a little bit more pessimistic or realistic because my opinion was that one day the american empire will shrug back america merican knows the u.s. knows latin america like i know my at chance the american the americans are playing the long game in latin america they have penetrated in 3 institution in free country or even decades on that concert and they know this peter that yes they

could be times when anti american governments comes of power but the americans penetrated the establishment with those ok you know it because it's markets one thing interesting thing you again i absolutely agree with you what you've said and let me turn to going here. marcus's description is perfect on the mark but he never used one word that's important democracy ok that's what's being denied here yeah and that tends to be the main visionaire is this could a tie or is the democratic revolution you know which is a new word which so to some extent legitimizes. and i guess you could have a reasonable discussion of whether or not. not the rule of law would allow for marlice to stand for 4th term and you can even discuss this issue of were whether or not there has been any. irregularities with the votes however a lot of these arguments kind of become to some extent pointless because marla c.

said ok well we can have another election we can have another election committee and we can also have it all under international supervision the u.n. can come and go through everything organization of american states was his mistake that was the recommendation by the american or all the recommendations of the organization of american states so essentially he said deliberately everything but but what happened while you had the military forcing him to go and pulling away all these political allies and the military kicking him out and. and then you have this senator. in the us who says. i am the new president and i guess it is the democratic revolution were just the rule of law and worse democracy because on his platform he put everything in place . not just big back to ukraine but those to some extent what happened in the world which made this a deal really elections the. american states in believe it or played the same role

as the e.u. in ukraine it pretended to be a mediator and in fact it was supporting one of the sides of the court and the e.u. made it possible for them i don't regime to oust the legally elected president you know they just didn't all of them commitments you know the. you create the same story here when good moral discreet when the commander in chief of the army william carr a monk made the following statement we suggest to the president that he resign his mandate elo in the pacific asian or believe it that could come from general pinochet in 1950 there was of the same language but what is very important you made a very good comparison with venezuela you know the united states has been accused of a 1000000000 for 8 to russia to china or keep president morales in bolivia did not ask for aid from russia and china he's economic rather the record is very good even his opponents the indigenous speaker seed that small and medium enterprises fleury

believe it was the poorest country in latin america he raised the work of people out of work so you cannot make the same because asians against you mr we make against one dural but asked for help and more others didn't and what happened to him so the same story as with colonel gadhafi in libya he did everything he needed everything in the asked the west asked him to do he designed and what happened to him more or less did not ask russia and china for help and what happened to him so next time when the united states and they're going to say if an american states all the e.u. when they ask someone else stop asking russia and china and others you know stop asking them for rate that person will think twice before for when that advice workers living in london. is absolutely right i mean poverty extreme poverty was tackled with great success under morale as well i really do worry because 1st of

all you have the military it's always dodgy when the military is calling the shots and then you have this political opposition that is intensely racist there are even fascistic backgrounds of some of these care. it's very well documented please go go to the gray zone for example i really worry about the people of bolivia particularly the people that are most vulnerable that make the move to head over the last decade are they going to fight to keep it or are we going to see some kind of dirty war that's probably the worst case scenario go ahead marcus in london ok so you know as well as i do about the lightning deaf schools that america trains arms and supports it it operates last in africa during the 1980s all that up to keep socialism out of latin america and sikkim the influence out of latin america and i would argue that is the case today the americans you know paid what really

turns my stomach is how british and american common states is talk about how in chiba venezuela and bolivia there are human rights abuses well excuse me one of the key subsets is of socialism in latin america as was the case of soviet communism has been education health and welfare that is a human rights many of the health systems for example the health system in cheaper the least the health systems in the western world stand in but of course american and british concept is do not care about the well settled we don't every people in latin america as they don't care about you don't we will say that all people in ukraine what they care about is ensuring that we know our country can have influence in their backyard which is how they regard latin america west and they do not want socialist scotland so it's an attempt to sting here in america so if i can

go to glenn here i mean if you do have these you know you have instability intentional instability and in venezuela we have it now with bolivia. what you could see is. migration north i mean this is in a domestic issue in the united states are you you can't have it both ways ok you can't so you want to call the shots in latin america and not. experience the consequences there of. you know it's against similarities in europe you can't to topple all this governments in north africa and middle east unless you can have a migrant crisis in the same applies in the united states obviously. i guess that point will be more of a concern than bolivia. but i guess i don't want to add as well that the presentation of the media of this find a quiet awareness is not going to be william because when these protesters are approaching protest what are the government they are peaceful protests or

a state problem ocracy but as soon as he's toppled in a coup and doss loyal to him begin to protest this and come on constitutional move a lot of power they become violent mobs and again you're going to die and we don't not only go there then this is largely what happened in ukraine as all this remember classically well once rejected or the association agreement with the e.u. you had all this protest and there were hailed by the even americans you know giving a cookies and they were you know pro democracy a democratic revolution taking over government buildings as soon as they had toppled and of course. but not just the but when they had taken power and you saw the same happening in east thing we actually don't recognize the legitimacy of this post-coup government there were you know villains mobs they want to be in having the agency they were just the kremlin and in this kind of legitimize going to russia over here where they got your reasoning here is that me again we've all stressed your directly and indirectly mainstream corporate media plays its wall in

these power plays here that's all the time we have gentlemen many thanks to my guests here in moscow and in london and thanks to our viewers for. watching this here r.t.c. and expand remember. in a world of big part of the new lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the back and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. the world is driven by

a dream shaped by our own person or those great. dares thinks. we dare to ask. tough and planning another one of the highest income ways or both the food. bank itself want to see it on the plaza this way got to dog so hard not to think on the decide this moment then walk up to what they call it and i don't look at the negative. this is the only thing that we do is music because everybody

fights his way. it's true are looking for the $50000.00 as well chris woody allen there you have a whole movie about a lot of the. what i think is this is the found that is a compliment. thank you. good food description sound up the tasing even for the owners so how to choose the pet food industry is telling us what to feed our pets really more based on what they want to sell us than was necessarily good for the pet turns out may not be

best people believe we have animals that have you know diabetes in arthritis they have auto immune disorders allergies we are actually creating these problems it's a huge epidemic of problems all of them i believe can be linked to very simple problem of diet and some dog owners so heartbreaking stories about their pets less treats the larger corporations are not very interested in proving or disproving the value of their food because they're already making it a $1000000000.00 on it and there's no reason to do that research. the load that if it. was. the at.

the at. the major policy overall the united states declares that it no longer views israeli settlements in the occupied west bank as a legal. establishment israeli civilian settlements in the west bank is not per se inconsistent with international law. around accuses the us of hypocrisy. hiking fuel prices. is said to be unquantifiable still classified intelligence reporters media outlets including r.t. get a mention.