corporations are not very interested in proving or disproving the value of their food because they're already making $1000000000.00 on it and there's no reason to do that research. hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle efforts to impeach and remove donald j. trump from the presidency have clearly divided the country this should not surprise anyone trump is probably the most divisive public figure of our time however all this division over a single person is changing in even damaging institutions is impeachment being normalized.

across talking impeachment i'm joined by my guest r.c. maxwell in phoenix he's a republican strategist and the state director of the black conservative federation in washington we have christopher barron he is a conservative strategist as well as the president of right turn strategies and in st paul we cross to david schultz he is the hamelin university professor of political science all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means he can jump in and out in time any time you want right christiane let me go to you 1st in washington d.c. i watched some of the hearings they're very boring frankly i don't really know what they're talking about i don't see the purpose of it here but one thing that i find really disturbing during all of it is because i know a lot about ukraine i live in this part of the world i follow it very very carefully the people testifying about ukraine their ukraine firster is they don't know much about the country that make that that's a double whammy for me not only is it useless what they're saying is useless. but

the outcome of all of this i think is a much bigger more worrisome picture here as the last line in my introduction impeachment is becoming normalized if you look at the founders you look at the. the federalist papers this was supposed to be an extreme remedy it looks like that's a longer the case and i really fear for the republic if this is good the way it's going to be done there's no crime this is an investigation in search of a crime chris for go ahead. absolutely look look we're causing we've costly her during the 3 years of the term presidency this isn't normal we've heard here this refrain over and over again from the mainstream media of and from the left and quite frankly that's what they should be saying right now this is not a normal impeachment is an extraordinary constitutional process that was put in place not to hash out policy differences but actually to hold the president accountable for high crimes and misdemeanors even if we assume everything the

democrats are saying is truthful which it isn't there is no high crime and misdemeanor here this is a policy difference and it is absolutely shameful that democrats are using this extraordinary constitutional process abusing this constitutional process to hash out a policy difference with this administration in r.c. in phoenix here i sometimes get the impression this isn't pietschmann for impeachment sake is this too is to damage the president i mean if we look at the the the membership of the u.s. senate the republican caucus there's no reason to believe that they're going to go along with this at all as a matter fact if there is ever as a senate trial at least trump and his people be able to call witnesses unlike the situation in congress right now without him ship i mean it is so we seeing a trivial as they should of the impeachment process is this is what we've gotten down to you can't beat him at the ballot box so you beat him through

a bacon in pietschmann process go ahead in phoenix. yeah i'm going to have to agree wholeheartedly i mean you can look at the previous impeachment proceedings in 1998 and nixon those proceedings started from an actual investigation and this iteration the investigation was supposed to be the mauler report that gave democrats what they needed in order to move forward impeachment but that was a nothing burger so instead we have an investigation not an investigation we have an impeachment inquiry that's founded upon nothing ok david let me let me go to you in st paul i'm not even understanding i mean i know i'm a political junkie like the rest of you guys and most of my viewers here i really can't understand the rules because they seem is so intensely unfair i mean i'll make it very clear and i've said this for a long time if trump is to be impeached for reason make it a good reason and make it bipartisan i don't see any reason and this is a totally partisan process something the founders never wanted to see happen go ahead and same poll. ok so

a couple of observations one historical i just want to bring up here is that think about it $77.00 us constitution is created we have our 1st ph that process $868.00 now another once all 7498 now and now we have another one and so there's something kind of disturbing for those of us a little bit older to have 3 and keep that process you know with my lifetime is starting to raise a series of questions ph to process about the political process whatever it may be so that's that's what the keep the keep in mind here the 2nd thing to keep in mind here you know is is that the piece that process if you look at the text of the constitution our constitutional law professor 2 doesn't have a lot of language it in the courts have largely said that congress gets a lot of discretion in terms of how to run it ph the process the reason why i mention that is that you've got people like alexander hamilton james madison and timing the writing of the constitution that set this is what is a political process or the criminal process of anything else and it follows i hate

to say this the set of rules that congress really decides this was the fall so i know what all of us i get a lot of talks in the united states look it will ask me well what are the rules what's supposed to happen etc etc i say there's an awful lot of questions out there that people really don't have a clear answers to and i don't want to quite say congress makes it up in the process but over time after for a peach with congress sort of mix it up a little bit as it goes yeah but david if i can stay with you here i absolutely agree with you but the way it's being perceived by the public and i and there's been polling data on this is that it seems intensely unfair what is going on here coaching witnesses not allowing the of the of the other party to ask questions not allowing them have a point of order i mean it seems inherently unfair and i think people are beginning to see that i. i agree with you the congress has the right to make its own rules ok

because it's a this is a political process it's not a trial that goes later in the senate but that this perception and i this i just think the democrats that there are so blinded by their own hatred they can't see that they're really unfair go ahead david finish up. ok so what i want to come back to and say here is that is that to a large extent i think there are there are problems in terms of the optics for a lot of people in the united states you know for the republicans clearly they're not thrilled with that i'm going to say for people who identify themselves as independents i think there's questions here there's no question that there's a little see a partisan reaction so what's happening to the process here and i think one of the things you have to hold i'm going to try to put the that best face on it you know and sort of hope it gets better is to say that with the now being televised broadcast now by opening it up to public scrutiny or public inspection it allows us well for the public to be able to have what to be able to criticize it it's

a little holes or whatever it is you know or some corrections or worse really what i'm going to hope to get to you know i've got my fingers crossed here so will the. corrections and i wouldn't i wouldn't i wouldn't allow i will i don't i've got i'm reading christopher's mind across the globe right now you know why because i want to know where the hearings last week and then i turned over to see you know wall to wall coverage on bubba you know this is a blockbuster the walls are coming in and then oxygen is out of the room but no i want to say hearings they put me to sleep i'm sorry christopher go ahead go ahead chris no look i mean the at the end at the end of the day at the end of the day you know this isn't about like changing hearts and minds this is about reaffirming people's already existing world belief about donald trump but there's not a single republican or independent who you know is thinking about voting for top of voter fraud who's going to be moved by this impeachment same think there's nobody

who's going to who voted against trump who hates trump who suddenly going to like him as a result of this impeachment we were at a stalemate here and again i think the professor's point about that congress sets these rules that's fine it's not a debate about whether or not congress can do what they're doing the question is should they be doing their. is this how they want impeachment to be used going forward because the moment that you make this a political weapon you're the one you when you leave it now but the tide will turn and it will be wielded against you and i don't think we need to have impeachment proceeding and that's going to have remarking about it all rather than a man or woman going forward are saying and phoenix jump in go ahead just quickly i think that's the dangerous part of all this a brutal president is being said that you can launch an impeachment encourage without an actual criminal investigation i agree that you know congress has somewhat a lot to make up their own rules as this goes but precedent has been said that this should follow an investigation by either a special counsel or

a criminal investigation we don't have that here what we have here is political theater ok. go ahead david jump in go ahead. act say that if we get to the grounds for impeachment treason bribery high crimes and misdemeanors again for good or for bad trying to give you sort of a constitutional history here that we have a pretty good idea what treason is somewhat of a good idea what bribery is obviously the whole question is what is the high crime in this demeanor and it's not necessarily the case that it has to be real it could be a lot of different things holdover from england that means anything it was malfeasance nonfeasance nonperformance corruption in office and i think the question in the united states is what is term actually the fact that we never. success. somebody you know. from office as president of the united states we still don't really. go already what i did this year is.

candidate oh yeah i'll tell you i'll but i'll tell you what it is i'll tell you how it will be decided i'll tell you how it will be decided will be decided to focus groups ok because that's exactly what's happening right now i mean every single week it's a new the goal post is moved ok and we know it was because of focus briberies more understandable christopher finish out this blog before we go to the break look at the end of the day we can have a debate about what is a high crime and misdemeanor what's the constitutional definition of it it can't be policy differences it cannot at a baseline high crimes and misdemeanors cannot be policy differences and what we're seeing played out in these impeachment hearings where it's a question of policy differences the people the career bureaucrats don't like president trump policy in ukraine the democrats don't like president trump policy in ukraine that cannot be an impeachable offense under any definition well

unfortunately c.n.n. an m s n b c would probably disagree with all of us on this panel right now during this recording and i don't i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on pietschmann say with our team. i. think.

there was an imaginary goes an enemy out there called russia during the russia gate hoax meanwhile huawei and other 5 key technologies coming out of china and other technology of china china's actually leapfrogging ahead of the us economically and now the way the currency war so now that period of focusing on russia it would be is just a waste of time we should be focusing on the actual rival americas very dominant in the u.s. now with the times. bank itself moving. this way got too tall too hot not. in the mood to describe this. and i don't know just how much of. this is

the only thing we do is music because everybody fights his way. through on the fee. given that. what i see is this is the fund that the whole company. welcome back to crossfire where all things considered i'm peter lavelle remind you we're discussing impeachment. ok let me go back to david in st paul and i'm really glad that you gave us a very short history lesson in the 1st part of the program here i think one of the

obviously one of the unique elements of this impeachment effort is that you we and christopher alluded to it earlier is that we basically have the deep state people in the executive branch undermining their boss ok over policy differences or their vision of what policy should be nobody elected any of these people here and i'm sorry from as far as i'm concerned these people they were there are a cartoon version of what an expert would be critical in the country like ukraine in even russia itself here so david i mean this is a new chapter in pietschmann process in the u.s. because you have basically state functionaries undermining the chief executive who was elected duly elected and sworn in as president of the united states go ahead and st paul. well we have a couple of things that are going on here you know what is well you know i'm not you know i'm not going to claim to be ukraine expert so in terms of whether or not they're experts or not or whether you're right or they're wrong i can't say that

this is not i feel it's not my field of knowledge there but in terms of what they're being asked to testify about i mean clearly there's a sense in which you know some of them are expressing disagreements clearly in some cases if you listen to the ambassador you know she has she has said that you know her concert was terms of whether or not perhaps there was bitter any laws broken or the u.s. is. being compromised yes the president has to make those calls and what i again maybe i'm going to sound pollyannish in this what i'm really hoping. is that the combination of the house impeached worry and possibly a senate trial that really get to this stage actually results of the size back to you or the legitimate meter ok on our insane let me go to you in phoenix here i mean one of the one of the most disturbing factors of all of this process here is

that we have people whatever term you like civil service deep state you know security state whatever whatever your choosing is here they seem to be working in unison with the media and the media is always amplifying you know he's wearing a uniform sterling career all that i don't care about any of those things those things mean nothing to me or the former ambassador how did you feel what was your feelings i don't care about your feelings who cares you lost your job you know i mean when you were not had that pleasure of the president people get fired all the time obama fired every ambassador when he came into office does anybody at c.n.n. an embassy and this i mean see every tell you that go ahead in phoenix i mean i think you hit the nail on the head mentioning how bamma fired literally every single holdover from the previous administration. why so he can craft his own foreign policy so what you see with the goalposts being moved in terms of accusations of get the program to the president but what you also see is the

goalposts being moved in terms of what power does the president have on an executive level to make sure that his diplomats or in implementing the foreign policy that he wants to implement i think the biggest mistake the democrats made was the impeachment to begin with but the 2nd biggest mistake they made was a charge creating this whole bribery thing this whole allegation of bribery now if you look at bribery bribery it was almost a good move from the democrats because initially they had this whole vacuous quid pro quo allegation but when you look at vibro bribery within the context look at adam schiff he took $350000.00 from the defense and history and then pushed down to it for an expansion of the united states' military presence so in terms of bribery it's vacuous these experts aren't experts they are defining terms what does it mean for ukraine to even be a u.s. ally it's all political theater and i think you hit the nail on the head with calling out the hypocrisy and the double standard and you know christiane i found with great amusement for my very distant perch here about.

the different channels back channels irregular channels well harry hopkins was one hell of a great intermediary for franklin delano roosevelt during the 2nd world war there were other cut outs the j.f. kennedy use during the cuban missile crisis henry kissinger while he was national security council adviser he kept everybody in the dark about nixon china policy i could go on and on and on ok it's the president's foreign policy he can ask anyone he wants the session to be to be his be his representative. correction go ahead go ahead absolutely. or. president or. elect. elect we. so for policy resident that's american for a while i think i know how to david i think or it could i think we're quibbling here we're quibbling right here i did i let it stand it wants no foreign policy

will always be within the realm of bureaucrats then why do we need elections why do we elect a president then if the bureaucracy is going to determine policy now i disagree with you on that go ahead christopher go ahead jump in looking at the end of the day foreign policy isn't set by trump when trump is no longer president he won't be setting foreign policy foreign policy is set by the president i mean the fact is we would have absolute mayhem globally if our foreign policy was set by mid level bureaucrats all over the all over the globe who decided that their ideas for foreign policy are what really matter as was pointed out earlier nobody elected these people if they have an interest in getting involved in setting the direction of american foreign policy they can get into the political arena and run for president themselves the american voters elected donald trump to set foreign policy if democrats and the deep state are unhappy with it they can go and defeat donald

trump next november at the ballot box that's the appropriate way to deal with this is not through the abuse of the constitutional process of impeachment ok david you want to clarify keep going and i have been a nice little idiology defense of the president horrible constitutional law. ok explain yourself i think the notion that that president doesn't set foreign policy is laughable that's why the term bush doctrine exists because the president i'm the runner and i'm going we have a time delay here so let's not talk over just go ahead david you have the floor go ahead. ok ok i'm sorry ok ok i'm teaching a class again this mester on the cuts costs a lot which includes constitutional law and foreign policy and again you know nice theory that you know one of your you know commentators is making here from a policy perspective from a constitutional law perspective you know in fact we don't treat the presidency or the executive branch as a unitary executive we treat is what as a system of checks and balances separation powers that includes what many

mechanisms in place i'm groups can put in place checks on presidential power it turns out he does foreign policy we're not talking about you know you're not playing but then you're told that unless. they hang on guy hang on guys here let me go to let me go to phoenix here i am not going to i'm not going to quibble with david on this here my point is i'm going to go to phoenix in a 2nd here my point is here is that the the the bureaucracy is not affording the same treatment to donald trump as they did to like brock obama or george w. bush they're denying the president the impetus the direction he wants to go to not have them they're not affording him the same thing other presidents have had that's the difference here go ahead in phoenix r.c. . i mean can you show me where in the constitution it says that the president isn't allowed to dictate foreign policy take a look at the bush doctrine take a look at what obama did with trying to normalize relations with iran look at what

reagan did every president is allowed to dictate their own foreign policy what you saw happen when president was elected was you saw a dejected washington a deck dejected of washington d.c. mostly from the bureaucratic side because they know that things are about to get shaken up and in order to prevent that you see what's happening with these impeachment hearings this week and last week ok. let me go back and let me go back to christopher in washington i'm going to make a prediction here right now. people talk about independents or people that have made up their mind in the age of trump i think just about everybody has ok just by the nature of the environment that we have here i'm not going to say that's good or bad but i think it's just a fact here does this whole process in power base because i tend i tend to think it will be this will be a reason for people to go out and vote ok because like the cabin that cabin that cabin i hearings this is another version of it here and people found that to be

fundamentally unfair and actually un-american go ahead christopher. little look it's absolutely going to motivate the president's base and is motivating the president's base middle a lot of the people who turned out to vote for the president in 2016 were people who had voted for democrats before who hadn't trishna voted for republicans the people who hadn't shown up to vote in a long time if ever because they felt like they were no longer being heard in this political system they felt like donald trump heard them well now what they're hearing is the democrats want to have to cancel their vote the democrats want to to to remove this president and have their voices no longer heard this is absolutely going to fire up the present base and by the way i would point out democrats could be doing the exact same thing they're doing right now holding hearings about this discussing this without it being under the guise of impeachment and that could have actually been a political winner for them that's an interesting way for democrats they decided to take this too far ok to muddle things now go ahead i think it's modeled more

because 1st off you know we're dealing with 3 prior cases of presidential speech in american history we don't have a lot of really good guy in terms of now process that so i hope you all can see that now 2nd is the fact that because. of the complexities that all 3 of you have raised here. and it all again leaves us with this with this perplexing question about still what is a high crime but sue does raise questions regarding the say how the process also go or and so i simple answer is to say that we don't have much more clarity from a constitutional respect regarding the peace process goes on as a result but let me let me go let me go to phoenix r.c. i want to give you the last 30 seconds here to this swamp needs to be drained it's not it's not happening last 25 seconds go to you. well it's not happening although

impeachment has been a boom for the president and republicans in terms of fundraising at the same time there is a widening kind of nks to mung strong supporters towards the president wondering why he's continuing to hire people who are never trampers and people who are quote unquote aligned with the deep state and additionally you know there are this angsty has to be resolved by the president the president needs to vet these people a little bit better and he needs to make sure that he does what he promised the american people he was going to do what donald trump made of donald trump made him famous may have made himself famous by 2 words you're fired that's all the time we have gentlemen many thanks to my guests in phoenix washington and in st paul and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. a next time and remember.

those same wrong. just don't. get to see. this day. and it. equals the trail. find themselves worlds apart. just to look for common ground. there's a tense situation in venezuela is still all over the news the problem in venezuela is not that socialism has been poorly implemented but that socialism has been faced only template for the inside venezuela things are different we're going to announce sanctions against a troll venezuela so if you. have a son of a moment you get out of that. battle so on the keep.

the moment focus the whose story isn't new nixon called henry kissinger to tell him not be tolerated in latin america. an alternative economic and social system could take hold and therefore the policy would be to make. the economy scream so wants now making the economy of venezuela screed. this is a story about what happens auster a stray bullet kills a young girl in the streets. what happens to her family and daughters in florida no mother daughter is buried in a cemetery it really messes with your head what happens to the community the public was screaming for a scapegoat the police needed a scapegoat so why not choose a 19 year old black kid with

a criminal record who better to pen this than him and what happens in court be. shocked shocked as far. as i feel. we don't know she'll share this truthful. end of this trial unfortunately you too will still love no she'll just. swedish prosecutors drop a 2010 rape case against her in a song shelter admitting they lacked evidence to charge the wiki leaks founder. in

a major policy overhaul the us causes outrage by declaring that it no longer views israeli settlements in the occupied west bank as illegal. please think international law or the law of the jungle. and in norway an antique muslim demonstration erupts into a street brawl after a copy of the koran is set on fire.