in afghanistan in particular it's very very difficult because because it's mountainous rugged. flat land sure it's not it's not poland where we're tanks would roll right across you don't have that in afghanistan it's a it's a different world there and we're seen insurgents hanging out there isis is just waiting this out. al qaeda is waiting this out kaiden taliban are still linked up together and i'll call it is actually stronger and isis is actually. going into the provinces. surrounding kabul and that borders the mountains and it borders pakistan in the in the section where a lot of their. other militants are hanging out like the let's resume the other question if we know that that kind of military strategy in this suppose of drawdown or bringing the peace table doesn't really work in the dentist and you know you and

i are smart people we see that you laid it out perfectly why why would we pick that strategy at this point well i think it's desperation at this point what what else can they what else can we do except bomb it's it's got to be primarily aerial y. and they're hitting where they think the strongholds might be and but when you do that a number of number things happen number one we don't have intelligence on the ground to do surgical strikes so you're bombing inadvertently a lot of civilians will never know the casualty rate on that although i'm sure it's going to be horrendous and it just builds in resent it you know they will they they don't really want to work with us they don't want to talk to us and it's going to it's going to build a resentment for years to come and i'm afraid that this is going to be the norm and . what we're doing right now is not the way to to move move forward and that's the action that actually. curious about because look at you and best

occasion last may found that america strike up multiple drug labs mostly run by the taliban killed wounded about there killed or wounded about 30000000 civilians i was last may. airstrikes like this like you said when they're not surgical targets when they're not when you don't know if they're really a military target now we say on the show there's not really such a thing as a smart bomb no it's a bomb. that essentially doesn't that just grow the ranks of the supposed enemy because i mean every civilian you kill there's a sister a brother a cousin she was then like well i know that these guys in my neighborhood didn't kill that person she rested sure and that's that's the reason and it can last for generations and i've seen it i've seen it in past wars i have a friend who hates the turks for example even though he and he's armenian to this day he will not go to turkey that's how long these kinds of resentments can fester and we're going to we're going to see that for years to come the question is how

then does the united states gain any influence in that region if we really belong there or even even at peace time how do we conduct ourselves and there is no plan it's all. there is no plan there's just no plan where do you feel that we went wrong i mean this is 18 years long or did we really go wrong and i mean i know it's a bit we don't have all day and what was there a moment the really jumps out to you where you're like you know what this was the turning point in this war we truly went wrong it was should we have even gone there in the 1st place the way we did well i think i think to go in and go after bin laden was probably legitimate you had a number of other countries belonging to nato who did in fact that was the only time article 5 of nato was ever invoked was was and has ever been invoked and yet what's happened now is that you have. what i think was the turning point was when we shifted attention away from afghanistan we establish. the government we

were setting up schools and everything else doing doing the the social thing that try to rebuild that country but then we switched. chairs all of a sudden and began to focus on iraq 2003 that was to me the beginning of the end and it was also the beginning of the end of a lot of other things in terms of our entire strategy in the middle east and we're now reaping the consequences and we're not and it's we're not going to see the end of it for quite some time and we see the turmoil that exists there today now and not only in afghanistan but and throughout the entire middle east it is truly incredible when you look at the u.s. history and that decision that was made you know i think there was a lot of people even that at the time. even after 911 everyone's like we're going to get the bad guys and i think a lot of people were you know did question a full military assault on afghanistan when really hardened terrorists as that's investigative that's what i want to call it we had defeated the taliban yeah they

were they were out yeah they were out it's because we it became the the forgotten war it was known as the forgotten war because of our foot focused on iraq instead and what did that bring is it brought in greater influence today of iran into that region and now we're seeing the consequences and i know russia is trying to look for ways to try and reestablish some normalcy in that in that region and it's very difficult they're trying to set up a persian gulf security and cooperation organization patterned after the o.s.c. in europe but you know if they're not getting any u.s. cooperation and u.s. and afghan and the russians also have a working group on afghanistan u.s. refuses to even attend that meeting you know it's interesting because i want to ask where do things stand with the peace talks i mean i know we just saw a prisoner exchange with the taliban they were least one american kevin king 63 i mean in australia timothy weeks were teachers at the. the university in kabul they

were abducted back in 2016 then we exchange of in free guys back to them is there any realist i mean you said they're waiting this out is there any realistic idea that we are going to find like some kind of peace deal between or are they just going to get away with one of the provisions yeah one of the u.s. conditions is that taliban talks to the existing government there and they refuse and as i said they've already begun developing their own. government and waiting just waiting for the u.s. just to pull out and that's basically what's going to happen they'll just come on back and they occupy most of the more and more than half of the provinces now when in fact we had them all cleared out and we are in spotty areas but but we've also seen that the afghan security people are still unable to this day to hold their own and that was the purpose were for training the system and that's the problem with any time you fight i think a war overseas against an enemy that you know in their home country was certainly.

a great example of the american movie right on you know when they were there back in the 1980s the russians and the cubans invade us you know these kids lose people in the mountains once they escape up to the mountains of montana or wherever it was to me it's very similar it's like you're not going to those people know the terrain you're never going to hospital ward the only successful insurgency was the french in algeria that was the only one and why if you study that you understand we did up we we basically pulled out we became as i said the forgotten war and refocused attention elsewhere in iraq they didn't the french did not in algeria and as a consequence it's more stable today then than it was back then fascinating stuff great great thank you i'm with you as always michael thank you for coming on. while the hashtag resistance house democrats have been busy patting themselves on the back for the great prizes. trump in pietschmann hearings of 2019 they appear to

have little a little thing like oh i don't know having the president the dangerous surveillance tools of the patriot act slip through the cracks yes leaders in the house and senate agreed to a deal to avoid a government shutdown on monday but the legislation they're pushing forward has sparked criticism from advocates for civil liberties who argue that both parties are failing their constituents arteries rachel blevins of the details democrats and republicans have reportedly come together to move forward with a continuing resolution that funds the government until december 20th but there is one major provision hidden in the tax that both sides seem to agree on republican congressman thomas massie addressed the added bill on twitter writing quote today while everyone is distracted by impeachment drama congress will extend warrantless data collection provisions of the patriot act by hiding this language on page 25 of the continuing resolution that temporarily funds the government he also said

democrats are suspending a chamber role which requires the text of of though the be released at least 72 hours before a vote is held in order for the resolution to be passed as quickly as possible now the patriot act was 1st passed one month after $911.00 and it was presented as legislation that would enhance national security by helping the government conduct surveillance of terrorist suspects in foreign countries however as the american civil liberties union has noted the patriot act also made it easier for the government to spy on ordinary americans by expanding the authority to monitor phone and e-mail communication collect bank and credit reporting records and track the activity of innocent americans on the internet now the inclusion of the patriot act extension is one that the overwhelming majority of the members in congress are not talking about because they're focusing on the impeachment inquiry but independent congressman just in a marsh revealed that he actually tried to stop it this week he wrote on twitter quote i endured use an amendment to strip the page. dr extensions from the spending

bill it has no business in there and just like you open your leaders damn leaders were all of my amendment out of order neither party protect your rights even though securing rights is why government exist so it seems that even the republicans and democrats appear to be on opposite sides of the spectrum they are still in the same mind when it comes to controversial legislation that how many have argued blocked crucial oversight and is blatantly unconstitutional for watching the hawks rachel bobbins artsy. gotta love the patriot act are as we go to break court watchers don't forget to let us know what you think of the topics we've covered on our social media be sure to check out watching the hawks the pod cast album spotted by apple music i know everywhere you listen to your favorite or not so favorite coming up we look back at the 41st anniversary of the jonestown massacre and the dangers of cult mentality the jonestown survivor the san francisco police officer on the williams state to.

join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guests of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. the tense situation in venezuela is still all over the news the problem in venezuela is not that socialism has been poorly implemented but that socialism has been played only implement inside then this way that things are different we're going to announce sanctions against literally is to venezuela so as you. see in the story. that. that. data to see on.

the map of the moment. the who story isn't new nixon called in henry kissinger to tell him that it would not be tolerated in latin america an alternative that konami and social system could take hold and therefore the policy would be to make the economy scream so wants to make the economy of venezuela screed. this is a story about what happens auster a stray bullet kills a young girl in the streets. what happens to her family and daughters in florida no mother daughter is buried in a cemetery in meaning messes with your head what happens to the community the public was screaming for a scapegoat the police needed a scapegoat so why not choose a 19 year old black kid with

a criminal record who better to pen this than him and what happens in court be. shocked shocked as far as i feel. we don't know she'll share this truthful. end of this trial unfortunately you 2 will still not know the actual shows. temperance to impeach and remove donald trump from the presidency have clearly divided the country this should not surprise anyone trump is probably the most divisive public figure of our time however all this division over a single person is changing in even damaging institutions is impeachment the normal

. path and planning another one of them i found its way to both the food. bank itself would have to. close in this way got to go through hard not to think of the mother disappeared this. hour and i don't want to start then if. this is the only think that we do is music because every. but he fights his own way to. the floor and you can talk the 50 miles out of his worthless woody allen where you have a whole litany of a lot of. what i think is this is the fans that is a constant thank you.

today many feel that we are no longer living in the united but the divided states of america since the election of donald trump back in 2016 and every day since many living in this country seem to be retreating deeper and deeper into their chosen political factions with cult like fervor we've seen both republican and democratic party members ostracizing in d. platforming anyone that may have had may have voiced a thought or idea that is not in lockstep with the approved agenda of party bosses and political thought leaders we've seen this cult mentality play out in our living rooms with family members and friends at our jobs with coworkers and superiors even in schools with classmates and teachers this factionalized a shit back channel izing of of the country has created

a steady rise in culture of fear and group think across the nation and on our social media which is why we hear of watching the hawks felt it is important to look back this week and recognize the 41st anniversary of the jonestown massacre which occurred on nov 18th back in the 1978 over 900 people lost their lives through mass murder and suicide at the would be utopia created by cult leader jim jones in the south american country of guyana after he and almost a 1000 of his followers fled the united states the jonestown massacre is the end result of group think an unchecked devotion to a charismatic pied piper and it's dangerous joining me today is one of the few survivors of the people's temple and the jonestown saga san francisco police department veteran you'll on the williams who managed to escape jonestown with her husband roughly a year before the tragedy occurred thank you for coming on the show today along the . thank you for having me i wanted to 1st start out and ask you how did you 1st become involved with the people's temple and what led you to pack up your things

here in the u.s. and follow jim jones down to guyana. 1st of all my father was a baptist minister here in san francisco and he has sustained a serious heart condition which was limiting his ability to go back to work and one of his clergy friends had told him about jim jones and that he was a prophet and he was able to heal people and so i was only 11 at the time and we started to. go to the people's temple location and where put valley california. and when did you know then at what point did joined up down and go you know why god about move occur and how did how did you end up on that journey. well after being a member for almost 10 years everyone who was

a member of people's temple had of course a desire for a better and brighter future a perfect utopia and so jim jones told us about that and that it was a beautiful country that was interracial and that it would be an opportunity for us to be able to live in a more comfortable suitable environment and it was for that reason that i volunteered myself and members of my immediate family to go to jonestown and to become involved in the missionary project which was relayed to us and other members of people's temple when did you 1st start realizing that something was amiss after you got there and how did you end up leaving that area before the tragedy to reporters. well i must admit after we

got to georgetown which is actually the capital of guyana. and i looked around at the airport and then walked out to a waiting vehicle for us i certainly realized that the place did not resemble anything that he had shown us the pictures and movies that he had presented to us so at that point i looked at my then husband and he looked at me and we shook our heads in disbelief and concern for what we had in the gotten ourselves into and so it was at that very moment that i realized that we had to find some type of way to get back to the united states. and thankfully you were able to do that you know coming from that and being involved in not only you know about as people would call it

a cult and you know escaping that the tragic ending happened to a lot of the people that were in that call with you when you look around today you know do you see a lot of light cult mentality in how people kind of react to things today you know i look at like you know a lot of the this weird devotion to 2 political parties in this country that kind of scares me when they put politicians or or even celebrities in this kind of mythical status you know have our political parties here in the u.s. become too cult like and their demand for money and devotion from their followers and not an idea of exchanging ideas and only one idea is the only way to go. i'm gravely concerned at the current status of our country and definitely because of the political parties but at the same time also the organized churches the requirements that have been made of people i look at gangs i look at domestic

violence situations and all of them have so many things in common with each other because each one is require you to lose your self to follow a certain appointed leader and then that leader becomes extremely sinister or narcissistic and a tyrant requiring you to do things that under normal circumstances you would even consider engaging in that's what truly is frightening about what's happening today and i think i think your story is important for people to hear and understand you know so they get a better perspective of the world around them so they're not led astray by the groups they belong to or the or the people and the people they follow and listen to i think is a great point you made about modern religion. what advice do you have for folks who are looking to get themselves or a family member out of a cold or a dangerous group or that group think mentality like what what out how can how can

people best get out of these situations. well 1st of all they have to recognize that the member of any of these types of organizations has been extremely brainwashed and 9 times out of 10 they've been isolated for periods of time from their family so the best thing that families and friends can do to support a person who might be considering wanting to get out of this type of organized group is to be there be a comforting listening ear knowing that there is going it's going to be a difficult battle it's a difficult in a battle with someone who has been involved in a cult survivorship and survivors have what i call survivor's remorse and survivorship guilt and it takes anywhere from 51015

years to really be able to process what you have been through and then to be able to move forward. and it's sometimes very difficult for an ex colt member to certainly realize that they can make decisions on their own and to realize that they do have some value and meaning because oftentimes you have lost your own personal identity based on the requirements of the cults and these organized groups you know i really applaud you for you know how you put your life back together since since since your time in the people's temple and the things that you've done in your life or we have a little bit of time left what what do you what advice do you give to other people who are individuals who have gotten out of that and what's the best road for them to follow in terms once they're out of that mentality like you're just talking

about. once you're out of it the best advice i can give you is to have faith have faith in yourself have faith in your ability to find that inner strength because everyone deserves an opportunity to live in a comfortable environment one that is safe and no one should have the right to be able to punish you and especially to inflict corporal punishment on you i'm also a survivor of many domestic violence relationships and i realize again that was me trying to punish myself because i felt the tragic loss of the 900 people that i once knew and i considered my extended family but family is very very important it most and it's important that you show love that is great and i and i think you for saying that my thank you for the hard work you've done and the work

you've done to help victims of these things are going to do it it's truly an honor to have you on the show thank you so much along the williams for coming on and talking to us about your experiences. thank you. all right everybody got is our show for you today remember everyone in this world we're not told the real of the up so i tell you all i love i robot her keep off watch faux or great day and night of. the tense situation in venezuela is still all over the news the problem in venezuela is not that socialism has been poorly implemented but that socialism has been phased only implemented for inside venezuela things were different we're going to announce sanctions against petroleum to venezuela associated. a missile that

could have a supplemental. down plus and that political battle song to keep the mass of the moment the focus of the whose story isn't new nixon called in henry kissinger to tell him that it would not be tolerated that in latin america an alternative economic and social system could take hold and therefore the policy would be to make the chilean economy scream so wants and making the economy of venezuela screed. this is a story about what happens auster a stray bullet kills a young girl in the streets. what happens to her family and daughters in florida no mother daughter is buried in a cemetery in meaning messes with your head what happens to the community the public was screaming for a scapegoat the police needed

a scapegoat so why not choose a 19 year old black kid with a criminal record who better to pen the sob than him and what happens in court be the big. shock shock as far society we feel. we don't know chill justice froogle. end of this trial unfortunately you tube will still love no bullshit all just. good food descriptions sound up to easing even for the owners so how to choose this pet food industry is telling us what to feed our pets is really more based on what they want to sell us than was necessarily good for the pet turns out pet food may not be a so for the best people believe we have animals that have you know diabetes in

arthritis they have auto immune disorders they've got allergies we are actually creating these problems and it's a huge epidemic of problems all of them i believe can be linked to fairy simple problem of diet and some dog owners so heartbreaking stories about their pets last treats the larger corporations are not very interested in proving or disproving the value of their food because they're already making it a $1000000000.00 on it and there's no reason to do that research. tough and i need another one of the highest amount huevos to assume because they could still move exterior i. was in this way got to talk so hard not to think of the mother disappeared this moment the work of a coward and i'm not going to start then if. this is the only thing that we do is

music because everybody fights his way to. the floor and you can feel the fee on this bill frist woody allen you have called the ability to put the payment on the. what i think is this is the fund that is a constant. thought. was. that.

the. swedish prosecutors drop a 2010 rape case against you in a song for admitting they lacked evidence to charge that we found. in a major policy overhaul the us causes outrage by declaring the did no longer views israeli settlements in the occupied west bank as a legal. international law with the law of the jungle. and in no way an anti muslim demonstration erupts into a street brawl after a copy of the koran was set on fire. well those are the headlines for now we're back here next hour with another round up and stay with us.