and largent process in the western balkans is the application of the more they'll and. disposability on both sides european officials don't apply as they did in the ninety's for example but also the western balkans leaders tried to escape when they ever day and the kind of a rule that would make them follow the line now 1st of all let's agree on the terms you mentioned here a piano zation what is it specifically what values what feature is make up the war of the european athens in whose image they are there is have to be remade well it's it's been set up all of the in the beginning of the ninety's and it's still like that night in $93.00 copenhagen create tyria establish are all over law functioning market economy for democracy and within democracy protection of minority rights the problem is that in the western balkans. after 2000

and especially over the past the 78 or 10 years we have of the climb better visible decline in all of these crew so the market is not functioning efficiently according to. the competitive committee of you know we have them across to decline very visible democracy decline. we have not always but we have problems with protection of minorities. in some places or at least some kind of problem with between majority and minority but the major problem is the will of law we simply not only serbia but everywhere in the western balkans have a judiciary and public prosecutors which are under the heavy influence of politicians now i know that you specifically identify state capture that is the misuse of state funds for private and political benefit as they may. obstacle to

your europeanization but some would say that this kind of france seeking and self-serving behavior could be found within the court ear itself in countries like cyprus or italy do you think you're of the old to europe has itself waived up to the standards of the europeanization that it tries to hold others to you can also have mentioned the paul or. 400 right over the past several years right the problem with the origin of the problem is that the european union these not able to solve this problem we've been utopian you know with these crimes because hungary czech republic poland are the members of the european union right now and you have stated capture there you also found the theater nation of other very important create the area to have established member they're not able to solve this there of course then they are not able to solve this in the western balkans when this is

running much much larger scale. in this country it's always been a bit counter to many observers that a former soviet satellites like bulgaria romania poland became members of the european union before the constituent parts of former and on the line yugoslavia having looked at how those various countries measure against the yardstick are you sure that it's always been a function of janey and democratic or economic development rather than let's say geo political expediency i would say that is one of the geopolitics in this process and of course the european union wants to bring to take in these countries who have some kind of shields. other countries especially russia and maybe some some other countries. i think the. in 1809 when the berlin

wall came down i think that the during the ninety's and even after 2000 the majority the prevalent mood in discounted is was that they want to join european. paul and sort of example i mean this goes without saying just like paul rudd so they wanted to join european union more than anything else because they want to solve some kind of protection from russia you know this is all that matters it's only about the countries wanting to join i mean obviously much of eastern europe and that i wanted to join not only because of the quality of democratic institutions but i assume also because of the quality of life and economic benefits but speaking about poland you mentioned that there has been a deterioration in democratic progress across eastern until within 5 cross western europe lately and. you know the popular narrative in the west is that in countries where russia is present that's understandable because russia is supporting

autocratic tendencies etc but poland is very notable. example contrary to die theory because it's been staunchly and russian for a number here is and yet as we all know there's been a backsliding on democracy how do you explain it and isn't it perhaps isn't it perhaps an indication that the way people thought about democratization. 20 years ago it is not accurate it's far more complex than perhaps violence lay near them i would say i would explain the polish case very similar to the one gettin case and some cases in the western balkans all has to do with the way the countries were democrat and what happened with the distribution of resources basic resources i think that in in polish case and other cases i mention the 1st couple of decades some of them. improving of material wealth or whatever system but the genuinely these these people they saw the whole process as unjust or unsafe there is

a polish origin political scientists. who mention this in 1901 so even the process of democratization europeanization is not fair so that everybody stand to benefit dogs who are the losers they will get back and they will the strike back so i think this is what's happening in this is what's happened what's happening i'm going to this what's happening in serbia and some western balkan balkan countries have self-awareness and germany and these are men who do you know that's right so and now they're coming to be a new a new and the enlargement process this self i think that the european officials don't really recognize that yet so they do they support i mean when it comes to the balkan countries they support the balkan out of crypts they simply play north tension to what's happening today and i think this is what is genuinely putting the whole thing in danger let me just mention one thing for example in

a couple of years back in serbia. group of masked people tore down several hacked of of houses and buildings in the downtown of belgrade. 3 years on we have no idea what happened who did that the public prosecutor is not saying and. right and the european union is not saying don't do such or. such or huge violation of the rule of law now this is the most interesting part that this could have never been told that the german in berlin this could have never been tolerated yes european officials mentioned this at no point while at this point here are not officially a member of the european every month they have an excuse of not interfering in into their fares all obey today they can into the theater because there are certain chapters which set certain standards that the aspiring countries has to fulfill and

those shots are 22242324 it's long been believed that the enlargement policy has dual objectives democratizing eastern european countries as well as fulfilling the e.u. foreign policy agenda one element of which is to keep russia at bay to keep its influence minimized and yet i get it from your writing that it it's not always working as intended and sometimes they say and to russians trick is actually contributing to the rise of autocratic leaders and these toleration of the lack of the rule of law that you mention how does it work. in some confidence you will find the other objective about having a country that look at thighs and then at the same time be. serving as a shield against russia is work for sample taken example montenegro despite very massive population support popular support for russia the monthly need again

leaders somehow managed to get the government and you go into nato and you know induction of all democratic way are right but it doesn't really have to work so supporting out the krauts in the balkans could. ends the way it did in one thing you don't solve it will it will become one day by. but the european union needs all of the part of nato but it would be it could end up in a different way so one of some of these confidence could go closer to russia so serbia is one of this country which is needed here nor there in the foreseeable future it will surely never become part of nato but will go closer to russia we don't know that public service cause a part of. the same thing of mustard on their north mustard on the under the rule of nikola whoever skit was doing the same thing so and he was heavily supported by the european official i mean one of the foreign minister was even coming to his

electoral rally a couple of days before the elections to give him pats on the back and they give him up a european supporter do i understand you correctly because i mean they became pickel a european narrative has that moscow supporting autocrats because they are more amenable to. the kremlin from the herion a. essentially saying that brussels is guilty of the same charge that it supports leaders with finds more amenable or easier to deal with about it is for stability or for geopolitical purposes i would say it's maybe not in this war but i would say if we see in the future that some balkan countries are driving away from european these asian union then going closer to russia one part of the responsibility will be with utopian the solutions so the whole process of a large meant i think have to be rethought if you will especially when it comes to

its applicability how you are ply all these standards are you consistent double standards maybe someone that's i think what should be rethought 3rd as you mentioned is an interesting example because it tries to strike a balance between the e.u. and russia and there are multiple accusations that president which is has been is european power controlling of the media etc but he also appointed. the 1st openly gay prime minister which is a major progressive milestone for this country is serbia indeed more european that is then it has to be is it being europeanized or is it just trying to look at a part you know. prime minister who is openly gay but that's all fake i mean they could terms of. promoting european values because the major thing these states capture extraction of publicly sources from private bad things and this is what's going on right now if a gay prime minister is not really putting be seen then ger the political elite

these 5 with these and with many other things right as as long as extraction is untouched the state capture is untouched everything is acceptable and even the european union is acceptable at the moment in this i think that the major thing that you have been officials have to understand the moment european officials seriously questions about extraction about state capture in the west and balk as they will get in the conflict and serious conflict with the latest well professor polish we have to take a short break we'll be back in just a few moments. good

food descriptions sound up to tell using even for the owners so how to choose this pet food industry is telling us what to feed our pets really more based on what they want to sell us then what's necessarily good for the pet turns out that food may not be a so for the best people believe we have animals that have you know diabetes in arthritis they have auto immune disorders allergies we are actually creating these problems it's a huge epidemic of problems all of them i believe can be linked to very simple problem of diet and some dog owners so heartbreaking stories about their pets less treats the larger corporations are not very interested in proving or disproving the value of their food because they're already making a $1000000000.00 on it and there's no reason to do that research. i

have concern about new technologies and i think society should and i try to help those gauged in those concerns. but we also should have concerns about doing nothing doing nothing as extraordinary risk you know world with some point 5000000000 people at a whole series of over ancient technology used to that are not necessarily suitable for a more. welcome back to worlds apart in addition pile of h. associate professor and the faculty of political science at the university of belgrade professor before the break we talked about how the large one is perceived

outside the e.u. let's now discuss about how it's seen on the inside i'm sure you've seen this latest interview 'd in the economist magazine that french president emmanuelle mccraw gave and he firmly stated that there would be no further e.u. enlargement until the membership procedures are formed do you take that as just photo sharing which is not entirely for him to mishear electron or do you think it's a wider shot as far as the e.u. neighborhood policy is concerned i think that the. french president actually expressed the idea which is pretty consistent with what we've been talking in the in the 1st part of the interview and this is that everybody sees that something is going wrong with the process of course what part of the problem is not only is not happening in the western balkans but part of the problem is with european union itself because the union is undergoing pretty huge sure. changes and i

think that some things that he mentioned in this interview hall for a total revision of the whole approach to european union rights for example one thing that i think is very important is that that is that there was a huge change in the u.s. and the u.s. was a country which basically provided security for you've been the european union russia no this country is now changing mr trump not. other term this is 4 years of this change that will be applied and everybody will feel the consequences now this calls for reform of the of the position of the european union in the world right now you have on your borders countries like russia you have chinese or some somebody there is terry k. 30 war in syria this is war ready close your door maybe we should think about

already organisation a security system and if we do this what kind of position the western balkans country should be. going to understand well what i think if it was not only about the western balkans per se i mean he was speaking about that and the larger context accepting new members and we all know that he wasn't just you know putting ideas on the table france is actually blocking membership talks for any and north of the cydonia it has come up with its own system 7 step system of i think they call it a gradual association not even accession do you think there is any chance of that system being accepted by are they are people countries given that they all called statements a historic mistake do they have a choice not to i think it's going to some version of this will be accepted because it's a very nice way to have a cake and they'd still read so they know without saying no so he will say ok we

are continuing our on our path of integrating more confidence but essential is going to be a prolonged or a long long way until we reach the 7 step right there with my beasts several decades right you could see immediately after they explicitly say as the european officials explicitly said no to the north macedonians in the binya what kind of problem it cause i mean so pretty basic people. the rule is don't say no explicitly just put it in some kind of. very nice wording good that everybody wants something in that same interview a present across the thinking about the e.u. neighborhood policy in terms of access to the e.u. was quote absurd what else could the european union offer a to this neighborhood if it's not very remote. prospect of joining them what

else. you know i don't think that. there is anything else but some kind of hope of the song or a way that these countries will become you members if this is of the mood of the table i think that we can forget about any kind of neighboring policy so. countries here want to call part of the media in the western balkans want to cooperate with them because there is some kind of. in the end of the tunnel there's a light that the light is not very 'd material i mean like you cannot feed of their life you cannot deny them to live i mean given the what you talk about extraction state extraction i mean from the point of view of relief that's. i'm just going back to my previous thought so you have to give them some kind of hope and then you will have them as somebody who will cooperate with you if you shut this down this channel down and say look we are not you are not going to be members in any foreseeable future but let's try to be neighbors i don't think this would really

help the plans that european union has for itself because as i said one has to argue the current. e.u. enlargement process is actually doing. something hurting itself so the interest that the european union has on the balkans is actually working on the long ground against european union now the reason i ask you that question was because while the prospect of enlargement in practical terms is very slim many european officials are still talking about this range and in very possessive terms for example the incoming president of the european commission their sole of one that i said just the other day that if the e.u. fails to offer a european perspective to the western balkans then others and she named china russia turkey and even saudi arabia will fill the gap do you think that you can

still. count on exclusivity or if you will monogamy on the head of the countries in this region i think is unfair to ask for that no i think it is but that's what i'm on no must go on wanted to express so we have to rethink the whole thing that i think that he didn't say anything more than that and this is very true if dupion union pulls itself out of this area or somebody else will come we'll get it doesn't have to be either or why couldn't it be you know china's influence influence here helping to build a railroad russian influence or russian presence here helping to by the 3rd been inviting european influence here helping to strengthen the institutions i mean this is how you would normally think about international cooperation and yet when it comes to the western balkans it's either you belong to me or you belong to them i would say that the countries and people function as families so there is a european family there is about the within european families about the family they

somehow feel some sort to say to your father your mother right there when there isn't a certain age when you can move out of here house and get married then to have your own children and well that's what i would always held. sort of my kids and my parents then the kids and pets i don't know by that absolutely but that doesn't mean that you absolutely should be held hostage to them and you have no rights you engage with them i don't think that anybody's health or such of the problems is that in the western balkans we have a discussion on going discussion for 30 years whether we are europeans are not humble in serbia this is very very hard to debate and we are not able ourselves to decide these issues or we in russia believe that we are here i don't know about the other. firmly believe that we are predominantly european culture which doesn't preclude us from trading with the east that in fact they have this could be an advantage of integrating both in fla. into international relations is the theater

from somebody else for another who will who is who will knock on your door and plunder and kill you or your compatibility is very is very strong for example the fear of fresh air coming in knocking on your door getting into europe. and present a threat is very very very alive still a so the large one process maybe one of the most important components is incorporate these countries which used to belong which were closer to russia in the past and have them now because you feel stronger in the families or smaller countries now the if you ask of people in poland what you feel about this 99 percent will give you the clear answer if you ask people here in serbia about this you 1000 such a clear cut answer that speaking about this fear of somebody coming and plundering

your house or killing a loved ones i'm sure it's a very salient fear in this region and i don't want to dwell on the crown's interview too much but i think it was remarkable in the in a sense of how often here for it's you sovereignty i counted 19 references now in this region in particular most of the conflicts in former yugoslavia started when people wanted to either expand or accomplish their suffering or to challenge somebody else's sovereignty given this new we rediscovered interest insolvency within the european union what implications do you how do you think it has for the western balkans when mccrone says running to think what he has in mind is to think more about the interest of the european nations rather than the interests of the us and the western balkans the i think is not still in the picture because as i said i think that he actually called for some kind of thinking about the whole the whole model of european union not only about the alone or about the and larger. now this

is the word serenity would mean we matter more we are not going to listen to what other people say other masters of our own day we decide who to be friends where so eager to serve and this could mean the followings if the european union if the united states wants to get in conflict with russia we shouldn't allow that the dis involves. incorporates us into this kind of conflict the implication of these theory is by extension that if you won and the crown specifically said that the green should be able to be. not to be enemies with the enemies of our friends if you believe that on the european level it applies to the western balkans as well you cannot claim this region only to yourself and that leads me into i guess my final question. there are people of the european union for many countries for many peoples here is not only democratic but it's also can all mc and as the e.u. economic clout in their region diminishes the cloud of many other powers be china

turkey russia saudi arabia trailer or any mention is on the rise as those powers are trying to invest in the balkans do you think the process of democratization is going to stall are they going to revert to more a very leaky author in terrorism or do you think the social development will continue you know as barack obama like to repeat the you know the they are sure history i sure hear things what the european union as i said a lot of the should understand 1st is that with such a high level of state capture in the western balkans that there won't be any kind of strong economy growth in the foreseeable future so i think that that's the that's a given right now if this doesn't it's beautiful and integration doesn't provide stronger economic growth the more material wealth or maybe as i said that some countries will turn to the east doesn't necessarily mean that they will become more

autocrat. it's may or may not i mean it's difficult to say because you know within that european integration process they become more of the cross that so you know maybe doesn't really have anything to do with whether they go east or west it seems that both sides are able to pull of a certain level of a caucus and hopefully they will also be able to encourage is that a level of democracy professor polish we have to live in there thank you very much for being with us thank you i'm very sure here is to keep this conversation going in our social media pages and hope to see the same place same time here and of all the part. of.

markets are making new all time high is interesting the money that is being forced into these. markets like green into the liver of a duck for profit arm has to come from somewhere along this list dig into those a little bit more. tough and i'm going to. sway you though from the food. bank itself mukti about. this we've got to talk so hard not to think of the how they describe this move the ok i want and i know from the start then if. this is the only thing that we do is music because everybody fights

a useful way. to screw up the $52.00 founders wolf this would be a. movie about a lot of the. what i think is this is the fun that is all come from. please. please. let. it. be.

the police. documents emerged revealing that u.s. drugmaker perjury pharma ran a campaign to suppress negative stories about his widely prescribed opioid painkillers also to come this hour the u.s. stresses his commitment to nato his mission as the french president slams the alliance is brain dead we ask parisians what they think. we're going to sort of nato is obsolete because europe no longer truly has an organized enemy on its territory i think europe needs to start have a good side when it's both political and economic experts hecht itself under british university council to talk by many speaker after students accuse her of transphobia we hear her side of the story. i don't believe i'm transcribing i don't believe.