we ship them across to decline very visible to mccarthy the climb. we have here is not always but we have problems with protection of minorities. in some and some places or at least some kind of problem with between majority and minority but the major problem is there were flaws we simply not only serbia but everywhere in the western balkans have a judiciary and public prosecutors which are under the heavy influence of politicians now i know that you specifically identify state capture that is the misuse of state funds for private and political benefit as the main obstacle to your europeanization but i would say that this kind of france seeking self-serving behavior could be found within the court ear itself in countries like cyprus or italy do you think you're of the old to europe has itself leaned up to the standards of the europeanization that it tries to hold others to you could also

have mentioned the paul or the core of hungary right over the past several years right the problem with the origin of the problem is that the european union these not able to solve this problem we've been utopian you know with these comes because hungary czech republic poland are the members of the european union right now and you. capture there are you also. the theater nation of other very important create the area to have established member they're not able to solve this there of course then they are not able to solve this in the western balkans when this is running much much larger scale. in these countries it's always been a good. many observers that former soviet satellites like bulgaria romania poland became members of the european union. for the constituent parts of

former and on the line yugoslavia having looked at how those various countries measure against the yardstick are you sure that it's always been a function of janey and democratic or economic development rather than let's say geo political expediency i would say that is one of the geopolitics in this process and of course the european union wants to bring to take in this country has become some kind of shields. other countries especially russia maybe some some other countries but i think the. in 1809 when the berlin wall came down i think that the during the night these and even after 2000 the majority of the prevalent mood in discounted is was that they want to join european. paul and sort of example i mean this goes without saying countries like paul rudd so they wanted to join european union more than anything else because

they want to sell some kind of protection from russia you know this is all that matters right now me about the countries wanting to join i mean obviously much of eastern europe and that i wanted to join not only because of the quality of democratic institutions but i assume also because of the quality of life and economic benefits but speaking about poland you mentioned that there has been a deterioration in democratic progress across eastern until within 5 cross western europe lately and. you know the popular narrative in the west is that in countries where russia is present that's understandable because russia is supporting autocratic tendencies etc but poland is very notable. example contrary to die theory because it's been staunchly anti russian for a number here is and yet as we all know there's been a backsliding on democracy how do you explain it and isn't it perhaps isn't it perhaps an indication that the way people thought about democratization. 20 years

ago is not accurate it's far more complex and perhaps violence lay near than i would say i would explain the polish case very similar to the one gettin case and some cases in the western balkans all has to do with the way how the countries were democrat and what happened with the distribution of resources basic resources i think that in in polish case and other cases i mention the 1st couple of decades some of them. improving of material wealth or whatever it is i'm but generally these these people they saw the whole process as unjust or unsafe there is a polish origin political scientists. who mention this in 1901 so even the process of democratization europeanization is not fair so that everybody stand to benefit those who are the losers they will get back and they

will the strike back so i think this is what's happening in paul and this is what's happening what's happening i'm going to this what's happening in serbia and some western balkan countries so i have to also innocent germany and these are men who do you know that's right so now there comes the opinion you and you and the enlargement process this self i think that the european officials don't really recognize that so they don't they support i mean when it comes to the balkan countries they support the balkan out of credits they simply play north tension to what's happening today and i think this is what is genuinely putting the whole thing in danger let me just mention one thing for example in a couple of years back in serbia. group of masked people tore down several factors of houses and buildings in the downtown of belgrade. 3 years on we have no idea what happened who did that the public prosecutor is not

saying and. right and the european union is not saying don't do such or. such are huge violation of the rule of law now this is the most interesting part that this could have never been told to the german in berlin this could have never been tolerated yes european officials mention this at no point while at this point here are not officially a member of a european every month they have an excuse of not interfering in into their fares all obey that they can into the theater because there are certain chapters which set certain standards that the aspiring countries has to fulfill and those shots of 22242324 it's long been believed that the enlargement policy at has dual objectives democratizing eastern european countries as well as fulfilling the e.u. foreign policy agenda one element of which is to keep russia at bay to keep its influence minimized and yet i get it from your writing that it it's not always

working as intended and sometimes they say and to russians trick is actually contributing to the rise of autocratic leaders and these toleration of the lack of the rule of law that you mention how does it work. in some confidence you will find the other objective about having a country that look at ties and then at the same time be. serving as a shield against russia is work for sample taken for example montenegro despite very massive population support popular support for russia the monthly need to be in leaders somehow managed to get the government and you go into nato and you know induction of all democratic way are right but it doesn't really have to work so supporting out the krauts in the balkans could. end the way you did in one thing you don't solve it will it will become one day. european union needs all

of the part of nato but it would be a it could end up in a different way so one of some of these countries could go closer to russia so serbia is wrong of this country which is neither here nor there in the foreseeable future it will surely never become part of making but will go closer to russia we don't know that will be conserved because a part of. the same thing is on the our north mustard on the on the rule of nickel and whoever skit was doing the same thing so and he was heavily supported by the european official i mean one of the foreign minister was even coming to his electoral rally a couple of days before the elections to give him pats on the back and they give him up a european supporter do i understand you correctly because i mean they became fickle european narratives that moscow supporting autocrats because they are more amenable to. the kremlin from the herion a. essentially saying that brussels is guilty of the same charge that it supports

a leader who finds more amenable or easier to deal with about it is for stability or for geo political purposes i would say it's maybe not in this world but i would say if we see in the future that some balkan countries are driving away from european these asian union and going closer to russia one part of the responsibility will be with utopian the solutions so the whole process of a large meant i think have to be rethought if you will especially when it comes to its applicability how you are ply all these standards are you consistent double standards maybe someone that's i think what should be rethought serbia as you mentioned is an interesting example because it tries to strike a balance between the e.u. and russia and there are multiple accusations that president of which is has been is european power controlling of the media etc but he also appointed. the 1st

openly gay prime minister which is a major progressive milestone for this country is serbia indeed more european that it then appears to be is it being europeanized or is it just trying to look at a part you know. i mean we have prime minister who is openly gay but that's all fake i mean fake in terms of. promoting european values because the major thing these states capture extraction of publicly sources for private benefits and this is what's going on right now if a gay prime minister is not really putting be seen danger the political elite is fine with us and with many other things right as as long as extraction is untouched the state capital is untouched everything is acceptable and even the european union is acceptable at the moment in this i think that the major thing that european officials have to understand the moment european officials seriously i ask

questions about extraction about state capture in the west and balak as they will get in the conflicts in serious conflict with a lot of leaders well professor polish we have to take a short break we'll be back in just a few moments thank you. bill .

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playing. very well now can see you watching us and see us. good food descriptions sound up to easing even for the owners so how to choose just pet food industry is telling us what to feed our pets really more based on what they want to sell us than was necessarily good for the pet turns out put food may not be as healthy as people believe and we have animals that have you know diabetes in arthritis they have auto immune disorders they've cut allergies we are actually creating these problems it's a huge epidemic of problems all of them i believe can be linked to very simple problem of diet and some dog owners so heartbreaking stories about their pets less

treats the larger corporations are not very interested in proving or disproving the value of their food because they're already making it a $1000000000.00 on it and there's no reason to do that research. i have a concern about new technologies and i think society should be right and i try to help those gauged in those concerns. but we also should have concerns about doing nothing doing nothing is extraordinarily risky you know world with some point 5000000000 people at a whole series of over ancient technology used to it that are not necessarily suitable for a more. welcome back to worlds apart in dishes publication associate professor and the faculty of

political science at the university of belgrade professor before the break we talked about how the large one is perceived outside the e.u. let's now discuss about how it's seen on the inside i'm sure you've seen this latest interview 'd in the economist magazine the french president a man gave and he firmly stated that there would be no further e.u. enlargement until the membership procedures are formed do you take that as just postering which is not entirely foreign to mishear electron or do you think it's a wider shot as far as the e.u. neighborhood policies concerned i think that the. french president actually expressed the idea which is pretty consistent with what we've been talking in the in the 1st part of the interview and this is that everybody sees that something is going wrong with the process of course what part of the problem is not only is not happening in the western balkans but part of the problem is in european union

itself because the union is undergoing pretty huge. changes and i think that some things that he mentioned in this interview hall for a total revision of the whole approach to european union rights for example one thing that i think is very important is that that is that there was a huge change in the u.s. and the u.s. was a country which basically provided security. for european union russia now this country is now changing mr trump wins yet another term this is 4 years of this change that will be applied and everybody will feel the consequences not this . calls for reform of the of the position of the european union in the world now you have on your borders countries like russia china is also somebody there is terry kay. war in syria this is war ready close to your door

maybe we should think about already organization a security system and if we do this what kind of position the western balkans country should be. going to understand well but i think if it was not only about the western balkans per se i mean he was speaking about that and the larger context accepting new members and we all know that he wasn't just you know putting ideas on the table france is actually blocking membership talks for any and north of us and on and it has come up with its own system 7 step system of i think they call it a gradual association not even accession do you think there is any chance of that system being accepted by are they are people countries given that they all called them across statements a historic mistake do they have a choice not to i think it's going to some version of this will be accepted because

it's a very nice way to have a cake and they'd still read so they know without saying no so he will say ok we are continuing our on our path of integrating more confidence but essential is going to be a prolonged or a long long way until we reach the 7 step right there with my beasts several decades right you could see immediately after they explicitly say x. the european officials explicitly said no to the north macedonians in the binya what kind of problem it cause i mean so pretty basic diplomatic rule is don't say no explicitly just to put it in some kind of. very nice wording good that ever. but they want something in that same interview president across the thinking about the e.u. neighborhood policy in terms of access to the e.u. was quote absurd what else could the european union offer a to this neighborhood if it's not very remold. prospect of joining them what

else. you know i don't think. that there is anything else but some kind of hope that the sooner a way that these countries will become your members if this is a move of the table i think that we can forget about any kind of neighboring policy so. countries here want to call part of the me in the western balkans want to cooperate with them because there is some kind of. in the end of the tunnel there's a light that the light is not very 'd material i mean like you cannot feed of their life you cannot and i know you have been to some to live i mean given the what you talk about extraction state extraction i mean from the point of view of relief that's. i'm just going back to my previous thought so you have to give them some kind of hope and then you will have them as somebody who will cooperate with you if you shut this down this channel down and say look we are not you are not going to

be members in any foreseeable future but let's try to be neighbors i don't think this would really help the plans that european union has for itself because as i said wanted to argue the current. e.u. enlargement process is actually doing. some very thing itself so the interest that the european union has on the balkans is actually working on the long ground against european union now the reason i ask you that question was because while the prospect of enlargement in practical terms is very slim many european officials are still talking about this range and in very possessive terms for example the incoming president of the european commission their sole of one that i said just the other day that if the e.u. fails to offer a european perspective to the western balkans then others and she named china

russia turkey and even saudi arabia will fill the gap do you think that you can still. count on exclusivity or if you will monogamy on the head of the countries in this region i think is unfair to ask for that no i think it is but that's what i'm on no must go on wanted to express so we have to rethink the whole thing that i think that he didn't say anything more than that and this is very true if dupion noonan pulls itself out of this area or somebody else will come believe that it doesn't have to be either or why couldn't it be china's influence influence here helping to build a railroad russian influence or russian presence here helping to this sort of inviting european influence here helping to strengthen the institutions i mean this is how you would normally think about international cooperation and yet when it comes to the western balkans it's either you belong to me or you belong to them i would say that the countries and people function as a family so that is

a european family that is about to within european family knows about the family they somehow feel some sort to say to your father your mother right there when there isn't a certain age when you can move out of your house and get married then to have your own children and well that's what i would always held. sort of my kids and my parents then the kids and pets i don't know by that absolutely but that doesn't mean that you absolutely should be held hostage to them and you have no rights you engage with them i don't think that anybody's health or such of the problems is that in the western balkans we have a discussion on going discussion for 30 years whether we are europeans are not humble in serbia this is very very hard to debate and we are not able ourselves to decide these issues or we in russia believe that we are here i don't know about your. firmly believe that we are predominantly european culture which doesn't preclude us from trading with the east in fact they have this could be an advantage

of integrating both in fla. into international relations the theater from somebody else for who will who is who will knock on your door and plunder and kill you or your compatibility is very is very strong for example the fear of fresh air coming in knocking on your door getting into europe. and the present a threat is very very very alive still a so the lodgment process maybe one of the most important components is incorporate these countries which used to belong which were closer to russia in the past and have them now because you feel stronger in the families the smaller countries now the if you ask of people in poland what do you feel about this 99 percent will give you the clear answer if you ask people here in serbia about this you 1000 such

a clear cut answer that speaking about this fear of somebody coming and plundering your house or killing a loved ones i'm sure it's a very salient fear in this region and i don't want to dwell on the crown's interview too much but i think it was remarkable in a in a sense of how often here for it's you sovereignty i counted 9000 references now in this region in particular most of the conflicts in former yugoslavia started when people wanted to their expand or accomplish their suffering or to challenge somebody else's sovereignty given this new we rediscovered interest insolvency within the european union what implications do you have do you think it has for the western balkans when mccrone says running to think what he has in mind is to think more about the interest of the european nations rather than the interests of the us and the western balkans the i think is not still in the big chair because as i said i think that he actually called for some kind of free thinking about the whole the

whole model of european union not only about the old and about the and larger. now that's the word serenity would mean we matter more we are not going to listen to what other people say other masters of our own day we decide who to be friends where is it and this is couldn't the followings if the european union if the united states wants to get in conflict with russia we shouldn't allow that the this involves. incorporates us into this kind of conflict the implication of this theory is by extension that if you won and the crown specifically said that we should be able to be. not to be enemies with the enemies of our friends if you believe that on the european level it applies to the western balkans as well you cannot claim this region only to yourself and that leads me into i guess my final question. there are people of the european union for many countries for many peoples here is not only democratic but it's also can all mc and as the e.u.

economic clout in their region diminishes the cloud of many other powers be china turkey russia saudi arabia trailer any mention is on the rise as those powers are trying to invest in the balkans do you think the process of democratization is going to stall are they going to revert to more a very leaky author in terrorism or do you think the social development will continue you know as barack obama like to repeat the you know the they are sure history i sure hear things what the european union as i said a lot of the should understand 1st is that with such a high level of state capture in the western balkans that there won't be any kind of strong economy growth in the foreseeable future or so i think that that's the that's a given right now. it's due to be an integration doesn't provide stronger economic growth the more material wealth or it may be as i said that some countries will

turn to the east doesn't necessarily mean that they will become more autocrat. it's may or may not i mean it's difficult to say because you know with these european integration process they become more at the crux so you know maybe doesn't really have anything to do with whether they go east or west it seems that both sides are able to pull of a certain level of a caucus and hopefully they will also be able to encourage is that a level of democracy professor polish we have to live in there thank you very much for being with us thank you and courage of yours to keep this conversation going in our social media pages and hope to see the same place same time here on the walls apart.

and planning on the going to be my way or both was absolute. panic itself moving to. closing this way got to the nothing in the distance had this look and i know you still are and i think. this is the only thing that we do is music because everybody fights his way to. the floor you can be found this will persuade you that you have given a lot of. what i think is this is the that is what comes.

markets are making new. interesting the money that is being force fed and see these. markets like draining into the liver of a duck not for profit arm has to come from somewhere a lot less let's dig into those a little bit more. with .

the. top stories and not say documents a merger of even the us drug maker. ran a campaign to suppress negative stories about why did prescribe opioid painkiller also to come in the u.s. stresses its commitment to night said it was the french president slams the lines braindead corzine what they. are going to put it is obsolete because europe no longer truly has an organized enemy on its territory i think europe needs to start having its own weapons put its political and economic to protect itself and a british university councils are told by a feminist speaker off to students accuse her of transphobia we get her side of the story. i don't believe i'm trying to fight because i don't believe.