well it's is it is it is both reading and writing of genomes which are intimately connected are on an exponential brink of explosion they are literally explode if you follow the cost curves there they're doubling in in months not years other way faster than the internet. and computing is. and that that change in cost structure and the impact it has on things that we care about $1000000.00 or the health of our children that ourselves. probably means that will it's also going to ignore well i mean i heard that you can actually conduct genome engineering at home you don't even have to be a scientist to do that right you can just order a desired d.n.a. sample over the internet it's like $10.00 get it delivered i don't inject it if that's the case why don't people a lot of themselves time to time. well you can also order all sorts of chemicals at home too but most people don't have the the know

how or the unmet need ok but people do inject themselves with gene therapy is there are a few known cases and probably on the tour level you on an amateur level people inject themselves with or with maybe some little assistance. outside of the standard medical research practice do we know what that has resulted in to date i think not much has come of it because. you know for something for most impactful medicines to take root they have to go through clinical trials i do the deal a double blind placebo controlled randomised clinical trials and that is just starting and the amateurs are not in this are likely to influence that would you be open to experiment on yourself i mean would you and jack jane fakes and tara solve and take a risk for the sake of science. yes i mean i am i have been

a guinea pig in many research. studies ever since my mother father essentially did immaturity search on me. which was probably within the law. but i would want to participate in in a study that is a randomized clinical trial something that that has some chance of producing reproducible and useful information not so something where it's a one off on controlled study if we're just doing it to myself so do i understand correctly that you're already been subject to experiments with and i've been a research subject. experiments opposed to a lot of comic spearman's like well suited change or what happened was a little more formal ones started in college and involved is in psychological works

berman's was involved in nutrition experiments and. one of the main research subjects in the personal genome projects of so very beginning with the study that i started so have your eyes become blue after that or they've behaved ever since you're more and i i have not done i'm not aware of the experiments the effect by color of the putting on contact lenses. but i probably would not participate in that kind of study because i don't remember has been a serious gene the medical therapy is now very expensive right. the price tag for the recently approved medication that can actually somehow cure inherited blindness is about like what $1000000.00 and that's something that 99 percent of population can't really afford right. does it make sense to produce something that most of the people would never able to buy. also yes

a $1000000.00 is the cost for over not just for gene therapy but for but for a variety of orphan drugs into the orphan drug the united states of things that affect rare diseases and i would certainly i've spent most of my career bringing down the costs of technologies both reading and writing genomes them and now therapeutics. and that's certainly. my ambition to bring down those costs. you don't want to deprive people of lifesaving treatment if they are part of society can't afford it but i totally agree that the goal should be to make treatments nearly free. and i and by the way gene therapy is not the only way of treating some of these diseases many of these diseases can be prevented by genetic counseling which is not a $1000000.00 but it's closer to 2 $1000.00 but let's talk about the genetic

editing a little bit because see how it's right now it's expensive i mean i don't know maybe in 10203050 years time it's going to be affordable for everyone but right now it is very expensive to tara because this sort of a surge in d.n.a. and create a genetic racism do i mean. already right now there's such a huge gap between rich and poor right so if the rich people are the only ones who can afford those kind of things i mean they will be healthier never die and then you have you know the rest of the world there are just going to be. deteriorating to see my point i don't think i worry about the same thing do you think so you think you can create that d.n.a. so no i worry russia but i think that i'm not predicting that it will happen i worry about it to prevent it and the way i think we prevent it is well 1st of all it's not racial it's rich versus poor and it's and the cast of people i. rich people versus poor people and they're always happy and healthy and you know the cast of the poor hurt has unhealthy and dying like they were right so my point is

that the solution is is not to say that it's inevitable that there will be this divide it's to say what can we do to bring down the cost and. get education an equitable distribution and we've done that for some technologies for example smallpox affects everybody in the world or all some point 5000000000 people there is no one that is exempt from that benefit we should have them and vision to do that for every subsequent medical technology and i think we can do it. probably quickly not not 50 years from now but much faster than not so when you say i'm the one working on those things and i'm i'm worried and i want to prevent all of this what exactly do you do to prevent that from happening what i do to prevent it to accelerate the arrival of equitable distribution of new technologies is to bring the cost down so we work to bring the cost of reading genomes down by $3000000.00 fold the cost of editing is plummeting at the same rate i believe that for most

genetic diseases they can be addressed by gene therapy which is more a reading and education problem that editing problem you can many and most of these can be addressed just by knowing your genome. and then another huge topic is age 2 or so and believes it's well a matter of maybe 10 years time that this is going to be really 10 jubal in terms of results what exactly do you mean i mean. are we going to get rid of wrinkles than you know. our bodies are going to be more toned all of a sudden when we're 60 or going to look like we're 20 already talking about internal organs like a heart is going to get better when we're at 20 or you know i don't plug wessels i don't know i don't consider wrinkles a public health threat so i'm like this because you know what when. i mean i realize the society that society has biases that can result in difference different

economies for the aged and therefore and having no war income could result in poor medical care so it is a health threat. that said i think what we're aiming for an aging worst one is not necessarily a decade away that we've already had evidence for aging reversal in several different. ways in. in mice and so them we are turning those into gene therapies multiple gene therapy is in testing it in predates mice and then praise dogs and then eventually human. and the goal is to to to make us more resilient to damage to our various organ systems. and to deal with the diseases of aging by hitting at the core that makes us. less functional as we get into our eighty's and there was age reversal right now

has nothing to do with the way we look at something about making our system and our organism more stable healthier and you know. resistant to diseases it could affect the way we look at those not the objective the objective is to to hit on major organ systems to that really affect your health like your immune system your heart. prevention of cancer and so forth but you know it's not it's going to be a big topic whether it's going to be only about health or the way it will look you know should do you know getting be limited to just curing illnesses because i mean i'm thinking messing with a in a worse risk for me having a bigger muscle or a blue eyes is there a line that we shouldn't cross. when it comes to. you know. i'm not i think we tend to draw lines in the wrong places doesn't mean there isn't

a law maybe it's. like for example driving a car there is no there's no real physics at $55.00 mph that is a law that we. place along a continuum it is unsafe to go 100 miles an hour boat and it's but we set the line at $55.00 and i think the same thing is true for you know if you. that we're not going to. if you want a different color hair. most of the things we want to change ourselves for fashion statement. if we want to be faster then get a fast car or a jet or you know we don't need to muscles those individual it's adequate that we can get from one place to another.

and if you stay with us. because yes if a 500 to a new high all transparency has been obliterated all sound accounting has been obliterated all economic policy that is tied to any economic school that makes any economic sense has been ignored and obliterated the rule of law has been

obliterated everything having to do with a sound society is being so hard to get a moment her to a higher level and getting so i hire level but at what cost. this is a story about what happens auster a stray bullet kills a young woman the. other daughter is very serious and terry is kneeling this is with your head what happens to the community public was screaming for a scapegoat the police need is a scapegoat so why not choose a 19 year old black kid with a criminal record who better to pen this than him and what happens in court. shot as far as a side deal. we don't know childress is frugal. and to destroy

it with you too will still love no chill just. good food descriptions it's owned up to tell using even for the owners so how to choose pet food industry is telling us what to feed our pets really more based on what they want to sell us then was necessarily good for the pet. food may not be missed people believe we have animals that have you know diabetes in arthritis they have auto immune disorders the allergies we. they are actually creating these problems and it's a huge have a demick of problems all of them i believe can be linked to the very simple problem of diet and some dog owners so heartbreaking stories about their pets less treats

the larger corporations are not very interested in proving or disproving the value of their food because they're already making a $1000000000.00 on it and there's no reason to do that research. most people think to stand out in this business you need to be the 1st one on top of the story or the person with the loudest voice of the biggest raid in truth to stand out a movie business you just need as the right questions and demand the right answer. the. question.

and we're back with professor george church talking about gene that professor so do i understand correctly that for you personally that line that shouldn't be crossed is between genome sequencing being used for a greater purposes like health purposes but definitely not something that would change the way you look physically from the outside is that fair understand i mean the winds should be drawn out of safety and i think you see both short and long term we want to make sure that what we're doing doesn't of impact future generations in a negative way it can in fact it can affect future generations but just nodded in their way and sometimes as that takes a great deal of discussion and research to figure out what that means but i would not draw a line. on mentation or appearance because those do affect your your income and hence your health. in there and they can be harmless and they're already done and so you that if you want to ban those things just beyond all means

of achieving them well you should you should prevent society for been to being discriminating based on beauty rather than a particular way of doing it so we should ban beauty products of all sorts not just once or well ok so you're not very categorical about this but then the other scientists and medical community experts that i've spoken to they're pretty much against. you know that the genome sequencing being used in terms of enhancing physical affair is and then you know i always ask them why is it ok to get a job you know but it's not ok to do that was the question jane at it and what is your sense here and what's your answer or. the different answers. what what what what would you say to that. you know i would say i would say that the. there are there are reasons to ban the entire practice across the cross you know an industry or the earth because it does consume resources while i'm spending

a lot of money. dealing with things that don't affect my health and don't affect my performance so there won't be discriminated against in a society that is based on appearance i could be spent his resources or something else but those resources include all manner of cosmetic surgery of. skin and hair care products and so forth if you don't like the loss of resources than then you should apply it across the board i'm not saying that we should it's not necessarily a harmful thing. maybe we can afford those those those resources just like we have afforded resources that are spent on entertainment and and so forth it it it is there is reasons that we want to look our best. because plastic surgery start with medical purposes like it was like for injured soldiers or burns or kids that will be born with birth defects etc and now. it's

a nasty attic industry that feeds off people's insecurities that's correct you know so that could happen with the genome that's reckless always all right we don't want . industries profiting from people's insecurities and we should ban every kind of i'm not saying we should ban them i'm saying that if. we don't like that waste the resources in that abuse of insecurities then we should ban them not say what my opinion of them to say if the right so all is that we're talking about the gene aiding and the fact that he can have fun human health. is this something permanent i mean if you you know gene at someone or instance is this does this mean that my child is no longer have inherited disease that i'm just at it or is it just a pliable to myself how does it work can you mostly modify your child while it's a new woman still. most. essential all gene therapy is

there in clinical trials right now are on adults or children that are not and and it's not imperative. you could make inherited changes. but it's technically possible it's not yet advanced enough that it's for approval. you'd have to have a good reason to do it. i don't believe it's because many things can be can either can be cruel so there are some things that cannot be corrected easily in an adult or a child so you need to do it earlier the earliest in the most preventive would be either by doing that by genetic counseling to avoiding 25 percent of children who are born with serious. genetic diseases can be avoided by age so they can also just or a few. people get married or want to have their own children than they ignored the genetic counseling up to the point that in principle you could do something on

their sperm or egg that would prevent them from passing along that disease but. the most cost effective than probably psychologically least traumatic is the do it at the matchmaking stage. because i'm thinking of this sometimes people with mental diseases don't know that i have mental this isn't it comes out with aids for instance schizophrenia i mean if you could technically when you say technically prevent that from being inherited into your kits as a something that's really far away. i would i don't think it's. beneficial to dismiss it as being close i mean it might be close in time it's not a so far away. because if we're going to deal with it we need to. not underestimate how quick how quickly it derived. i think if we had a way of avoiding extreme cases christopher ennia by genetic counseling that would

be very advantageous if we could do it with. any kind of preventative medicine that would be better than probably better than a cure. we're not equal to a cure i want to talk a bit about your new start of. that's very data information and block change technology right i mean what's the point i mean you hope to encourage people to get their genome sequenced d.n.a. code written out and then share it with the rest of the world as well the whole point is so they can avoid sharing their whole genome with anyone including their physicians matchmakers researchers what they can do is give them. part of what they need encrypted form and color and combined with many other people's. comparable data such that no one ever has. and that that the fireball piece of anybody else's genome so that level of security is just

now becoming evident how you achieve that and i think it would reassure a number of people. about ways that they can share the things that they would like to share they can now do it securely in addition there's a way of compensating the room for. participating in something to save society a lot of money so for example with 5 percent of children nurse 4 born severely genetically damaged and you can get everybody to get their own genome sequenced and secure a software that allows them to find out who they can who would be a good match for them and who would not be before they get married or you could reduce abortions you can reduce the $1000000.00 costs of dealing with these 5 percent of them which babies and that should be you should be able return it to the people. who got their genome sequenced so rather than paying $1000.00 for the

genome sequence we should pay you a $1000.00 to get your genome sequenced so the society avoids having these severely affected children do you ever come across or get in trouble with people who maybe think that you are sort of overstepping humanity's boundaries because you're working with something so big something bigger than us you know like some whatever and say that you're playing with god willing to do you come across that i think that. it is a risk but i don't i think in my particular case there's. people see that i'm trying to engage in ethical discussion discussions of the ethics safety for a long term planning trying to have 2 way conversations with broad set of people like this conversation and i think they respect that and they don't and

the they don't think that i'm playing working hard and i'm working as an engineer would do a safety engineer more than anything else so i think that. i'm not trying to reassure really want to actually try to raise the alarms as quickly as i see them and i see them sooner because i'm in deep in the trenches were working on the on the next technologies do you feel like maybe societies should have certain constraints when it comes to cutting at scientists like you or you know people like you. just because you know you could be for better or for worse changing the way humana works the way humanity is this is not a joke. well yes i have concern about new technologies and i think society should and i and i try to help them get engaged in those concerns but we also should have

concerns about doing nothing doing nothing is extraordinarily risky in a world with with some point 5000000000 people and a whole series of ancient technologies that are not necessarily suitable for. the moral. you know there's some people who believe that we are the way we are and there's a reason for it and however many lives will get one or 25000 we should go through each life their way we were born what do you think i mean i've read in one of your interests you have a special condition called narcolepsy would you want to change that in yourself or would you want to keep it the way you are. well i don't think we need to stay the way we are born i mean we in addition to that i will naturally progress. and i think we are there's anything that actually about i mean it depends on your definition of nature and natural i mean some people define nature as that which is not affected by humans well obviously humans are affected by humans we put on

clothing we we drive cars we are not accepting our nature are not accepting our ancient nature. that said what i changed my narcolepsy not at our current state of knowledge i think in fact i think one of the things we need to be very cautious about is we need lots of diversity we need people that have. problems that they can live with i think. when i was young. and i have a bunch of things wrong with me but they were tolerable and if we eliminate people we should eliminate cases where it's intolerable or they would. be in great pain to life but things are tolerable as for the rest of us that makes us great. and willing to accept the burden of my particular problems. and i think we might even need more diversity. thanks for this wonderful for this internet with everything

thank you. happened panama the flu virus to mcconnell the way you go through a food. bank itself mukti it i. was in this way got to doubt it so hard not to think of the mother disappeared this woman to look at the plate i want and i'm going to start then if. this is the only thing that we do is music because everybody fights in his room when.

the floor you can feel the fee on this bill frist would have been the you have all the ability to put the payment on the. what i think is this is the funds that is a constant. thought. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world the politics sports business i'm showbusiness i'll see that.

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