mr jordy pinera welcome to the hour exam and sure thank you for inviting me. your responsibilities in government and compass the digital column as well as the catalan civil service tell me a bit about how you're positioning catalonia as a digital hub. in the europe and the world. has been over the past the. fabric of. spain it's the most industrialized area. in the spanish state we are the only part of spain where we did the industrial revolution like you know parts of the world and now we want to be. not spain but of at least a half of east south of europe and what successes can you point to as a killer statistic you can give us which you will see how catalonia is successful

in becoming this this digital hub well it will be i think not very objective if i save myself that i will use the fetus according to all financial times right now we the south of europe the most attracting reason to invest in these new additional economy. we host in barcelona at anya the most important thing was to go in right now in the world which is the mobile world congress. we also hold this mighty well congress which is how we use these technologies in order to power better cities and more efficiency these. cities which used to provide better service to its citizens having these 2 events. creating a brand it's also another policy which makes us strong in order to. attract companies. in order to attract talent to get on the air all of the strive.

to become a digital hub to become the focus of activity and in solid europe takes place against the background of huge constitutional controversy of trouble. in catalonia doesn't that political uncertainty doesn't inhibit economic plans of the impacts that you can see in the economy of the this degree political controversy i think we see and certainly the around the world we've seen it in the u.k. we've seen in perry's all these demonstrations of the yellow shirts in the streets i think that that's not the problem the problem is whether we are serialized or not a civilized society and i think that. we've shown the world that we have our own obviously controversies with the spanish authorities. trying to solve these

controversies democratically in a civil way in a way the people from the business world understands that we've seen how we. as the 2nd most. cd that is in europe after london according to mr which is a european index tourism has been growing which is also something which people when they see riots all over the world they take. you know this isn't as according as well on what they see on the t.v. but recently the bill indications that this spanish the appalling a clamp down on the social media intercepting these messages how concerned are you as digital minister that such a draconian clamp don't make the introduce or have to say i'm very concerned but not for the catalan citizens but for the whole spanish citizens this is a practice which is more similar to turkey. he brought

a china china to what it should be a european standard i haven't seen these in any european country so we are really concerned that the spanish authorities for trying to stop a democratic movement which is us using the social media as a tool as everyone else the world the european regulations competition regularly since the freedom of expression aspects and would be all the raider spanish 10 or can the spanish say security reasons an exception to the normal standards actually what the spanish state is wants to do is that the according to the public all of the reasons or do even for economic interest they will be able to shut down the internet in any part of spain. without a lot of that just because the government will say so and it's just technically possible do you better place than most politicians to to know technically could you

you black cattle morning are from the digital expression well we will see whether they do it we've seen the war how are they doing it in turkey and other parts of the world we think that this is something which should not be accepted by european law actually we want to appeal against these the spanish government has announced regarding 2 very very important issues one is the freedom of the internet so that the access freedom of access to internet which is something you cannot just. as you want it should should be regulated. and should be respectful of the other principle which is the freedom of speech how do you see the cattle and crisis coming to a resolution i mean most observers can't believe that it can continue indefinitely in the process of. still me majority opinion for independence in cattle and the

majority opinion in the rest of spain against cattle and ambitions how can you see a resolution of the crisis and can there be any resolution before the freedom of the the imprisoned independence supporters who symbol you carry in your lapel a previous minister is in jail just for. making it possible for the people of other referendum well we think that this is a process which has been for almost 10 years right now. so that the mind of the catalan people for their beginning for more autonomy was not an independence process or that again it was just in the mind of fiscal authority for definitely more. moral donna me say spain was actually. pulled

down by the spanish government. with its constitutional court saying no to a state those new set of i don't know which had been voted by the parliament you had been voted by the spanish. parliament where the spanish were in the results of the whole spaniards and it was approved by referendum that law that neal. which was not an independent edition was ruled out by the spanish that after that people started bolting independence parties and now we have a majority in the bottom and for independence and we've had a majority for some years and i think that will continue so i mean google doodle grow if the spanish government continues on its way of not wanting to seat down and negotiate not wanting to sit down and having a dialogue we've had a lot of these but we've won elections. the coalitional party is not just the

coalition of parties who support independence. the spanish elections in catalonia you've had a referendum on all the elections for many years and you still. independents so what can be the resolution to to the cattle controversy you believe are the only solution is this has to be a political solution based on dialogue and that means that. institutionally spain is having for the last 45 years a. lot of economically and internationally. if i have 4 elections they have approved only one budget in the last 4 years eve you don't think that without solving the problem they were there one half a study lady. is that not understanding how important the lonia in the

way. of for for spain understanding what the future of. negotiating a solution maybe you can negotiate a solution for the next 1015 years the only way to solve that is through all dialogue through negotiation drafty i can bring everybody to the negotiation table but what i can do is present it will for the average salman quick 4 for appearing on the sure know where you know the drill from scotland whiskey scottish whiskey got in the quick and then you you pass over and everybody returns of negotiations thank you very much minister thank you so much join us after the break when alex speaks with international commentator les castro.

and there was only johnson. and i just got out of prison for. 41 years. i'm 72 years old now i got arrested for too many for some of my. own life just everything was taken out of. my work in the hospital it was. going to snow man that looks a little bit like me. because about. homicide want to cars. now.

we're hot tofu this. is so you're going. to go to still. do not afraid to try to frighten if you smoke you. know do something right do. you know one of the things we talk about on the show how if you read the financial press about the latest scandal it's just a new name for a recurring scandal like there's only 3 or 4 ways you can rip people off as it changes is the name they call to rip people off.

young elephants have come to us after. especially brutal budging incidents because you so often do see their mother as. killed but also be cut up and butchered. i do believe they laugh and smile i see it simply someone's home facial expression changes. welcome back the cattle an independent struggle has had a huge cut in sea and the social media world white one of the reasons for the informed reaction has been the rapid translations into english and the informed comments offered a marketable american lives castro who in her time in catalonia has embraced the independence movement alex caught up with lace in barcelona. the list castro

and the medical and bustle of the company what brought them to cross the atlantic a number used to do to experience cattle on life you know the 1st day that i walked into this office where i was looking for a job they found out that i spoke a tiny bit of couple and not very well and they never spoke to me in spanish again and it was it was a wonder they were so appreciative so welcoming and that speaking called on opened many doors for me people wanted to take me to their homes for parties to talk to me they took me on vacation they they treated me as one more person in the family and i felt like my efforts at speaking caught on in the 1980 s. as an american was one of the pieces that made that happen it was that was a special thing there weren't very many people who did that and that was surprising because in the united states you know when you go to the united states you have to speak english everybody does and nobody thinks all that's a wonderful you speak english you just take it for granted and here that's not the case so i saw this give you

a fairly unique insight religious say because you're an american coming to capitol hill but you're learning to speak the language so it gives you a very good vantage point to assess the question as cattle or the nation and the characteristics off the nation of catalonia but that's a really interesting question and it's something that i noticed right from the beginning i had traveled a fair bit in spain and i had been to madrid i had been the elysee i had been on the most here and other places and there were a number of things that were different here there's a feeling about it there is a feeling of identity is the interconnectedness of a people to be the big. list because you went back to about it to pursue this highly successful career in the web design and computer. vocative zation of the way. catalunya in 2011

so it's quite interesting to us and say there will be someone with a huge knowledge of castle or other many people of different nationalities i think you get the most severely candidate when you strip for the national assembly is that normal a lot of these people from other countries part of this the grassroots national movement somebody like me who is an american i've lived practically all my life the united states except for 10 or 15 years here can also become on and be considered for you know the national board of the cop on national assembly which is a it's a lobby it's not a political it's not it's not an elected office volunteer group. is elected because you go it was a little bit that's true but it's but i mean it's not you know it's not an elected government of government yes a governmental body but in terms of your own contribution to the national assembly the splash roots movement and clearly the your expertise. in online

masters has not been a big influence in the this bulging growth of the castle and independence movement the fact that so much more this possible in terms of causes for the with the democratization that comes with the online process i mean same people can absolutely absolutely i mean it wouldn't we wouldn't be here if it weren't for twitter and facebook and particularly what's up lately and telegram and signal and whatever else you know is coming now but you've also been a very articulate voice for the cattle and independence movement. in the media world white again you have an advantage because you know as a native english speaker you're able to translate from the cattle and then and give a view as to fight your lameduck at this are also helpful in terms of being able to spot your mesh and the cattle on movement still gives a set. degree of. you know i think it's there's good things about of them bad

things about it i mean the fact is i'm not called on i'm not from here and so sometimes it feels like it's not my place on the other hand i speak up on very well and spanish and i've lived here for a very long time and so i've seen all of things not all of them but many of the things that make up this process and it's complicated you know i've met practically all the people who are not practical i've met all the people who are in jail right now i know them personally. and i have other american friends who say you know i never met the president of the united states but i've met all of the current all of the presidents how is that is it that couple in society is more accessible is that because we're americans somehow you know that makes us you know special. i'm not i'm not exactly sure. what i do know is that. that this community aspect of couple on the. importance that people put on talking and on debating

and on deciding what they want to do and i'm listening to people that's very special and that's something that that should be celebrated and taken advantage of the closeness of personal tragedy for the named people involved of course the history teaches a great rallying call for the for the castle national movement. very seldom in history. substantial same to politicians to the benefit of those who are imposing the sentences the general rule is to the benefit of those. incarcerated who shouldn't question where do you think this is going to take the national mood. there's many things about it like you say it's a tragedy when i think about those people in jail they're just regular. people you know there are politicians who had a mandate to have

a referendum and the fact that they've been jailed for sedition violence an overthrow of the government it's just ridiculous and it really threw it across the violence wasn't established. in the charges which i suppose is quite interesting because if you look at close. this is there and sedition the something that has to be these be associated with very very few countries apart from spain sedition as an offensive self and so a lot of. freedom of speech would be pretty preeminent over all things i'm certainly they say that one of the reasons that they originally accused them of rebellion is so that they could keep them in jail because with just charging them with addition they couldn't and so the rebellion charges which involve. according to the spanish penal code you know violence real violence with weapons and it's stipulated in the statutes could be used to keep them in jail until they were

convicted the statute describes sedition as any kind of resistance using force or pressure against the government that kind of definition were also the dishes all of us i certainly am because i resist with pressure the things that my government does all the time there are plenty of things that i disagree with so if people are in jail for 9 years for that that means that there is no democracy in spain because spain will simply. apply that definition of sedition to anybody that it doesn't like and that's a step to shame and that's a that's a travesty but that is not the point when you have this contrast between popular opinion democratic opinion political opinion and general reads by the code in each of these sentences the question is still will merely speaking go against a state of the government can possibly. because a claim of the book lucy well that's

a new one. the government so you look at the institutions of european union have been pretty cool towards catalonia yeah and that kind of gives you an idea about if they're just cool about democracy because they certainly been up in arms about hong kong about democratic supporters there they're complain a lot about democracy in venezuela in any other place besides couple why because spain has a lot of influence within the european union and they don't want to be on spain's bad side but if casually and democracy is inconvenient what does that tell you about the prospects for success to be. popular support from sleet into success against institutional opposition well there's a thing about people in general i think all around the world and it's that they're not really willing to live. without freedom we're sort of waiting to see

what was going to happen with this trial you know were the judges really going to be honest and impartial and when they handed down 10 year sentences for demonstrating or for holding a referendum we realize that there was no justice in the spanish court for a couple idea but after these sentences it becomes so much more basic we want independence because we want to live in an democracy and want to be able to have freedom of expression freedom of assembly freedom of political. you know manifestation and that is not allowed today jordan who shot them drove the scientists were civil leaders i have been in jail for the last 2 years and will be in jail for 7 years or more because they participated in a nonviolent demonstration i was there i saw it it did nothing except tell people to go home and they are now jailed for sedition i would just say that. for the right to speech. freedom of assembly freedom to let your old government

become independent is that good to propel me into independence although it take a tea tax or something to the economics to move things and might delay what should a pretty well that's a good question what will it take to get spain to sit down and talk which is the demand of most people and i don't know you know spain is very very stubborn about couple on the one because it doesn't want to lose 20 percent of its g.d.p. and 2 because of pride there's definitely an emotional element involved spain cannot stand the idea that caught on don't want to be part of spain anymore really it's it's hurtful understand that it's a little bit like a divorce in that sense but that's not that's not reason to impel them to stay. violent she thought be held to circumstances we have. i think so yeah

anybody who took place took part in that october 1st referendum knows the strength of that strategy and the strength also of the common people working together to make that happen you know that's what we will do again we will join together to insist that we have a right to be heard we have a right to speak to choose our own future but that fuchsia few loses in catalonia a right to american sports to future for you so right now it's income pawning absolutely i live in the middle of barcelona with my 3 children and. i love it here you know people call me called on which i think is a great compliment i feel very much at home here i feel a part of this community that's that's you know a wonderful thing for. anyone. to lafayette the catalog revenue. that is quite a convert thank you. i do my part to the future. we will

always solve in quick. quick so loving cup of scots girl it you. should love a ball that i wouldn't dream of can pass your catalan for thank you very much well that's a treat i love whisky. in the weeks following the spanish election there is still no sign of a breakthrough in the standoff between catalonia and the madrid government where the catalan independence party is gaining ground and the extreme right wing making political progress in the rest of spain socialist prime minister sanchez may feel that he has little room to maneuver in changing tack from his hard line towards both catalan ambitions and with regards to political prisoners however this week in the news that the largest independence party the e r c are suggesting that they might be open to supporting a sign chairs government in the cortez if the prime minister is open to discussions

an independence we will watch developments with interest certainly there seems to be few more attractive options to real dialogue it is difficult to see how continuing use of the spanish judicial system is going to quieten rather further inflame independent sentiment and it is difficult to prosecute the feelings of the people with any hope of success meanwhile the independence movement has its own strategic issues to grasp can the various independence parties continue to present a united front and avoid major splits on strategy and above all can the cause hold on to its price international reputation as a nonviolent movement in the face of heightened political atmosphere of 9 marchers to the cause languishing in jail in this regard if indeed the spanish authorities really have in mind a social media campaign of the kind only previously deployed in turkey and china it seems unlikely to break the can. the line split however it would subjects made to

further international reputational damage would apportion any development in next week's program join us next time when alex interview some of the people rallying to the cattle line cause we take the temperature on the streets as catalonia debates its strategy for nationhood but until then for me alex said although the show is good bye for now and we hope to see you all next.

year we're going to go. to your. point of time in.

you know world a big part of the new law and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the bad and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. i.

believe you in t.v. says it's been ordered to take. it's not just the media it's being cracked down on by the self-appointed government of joining us so according to bolivia's former vice president. the only thing they have achieved is to create terror in the country 2 people have been killed and there was no investigation trade union leaders are hounded either way next on. a rally in the french capital to raise awareness of violence against women is itself by violence one feminist group clashes with another we talked to one of the women who took part. i was in the range we went to this demonstration because we wanted.