as fabulous issue and tie linda says i thoroughly enjoyed it the pundits and i thought very good now when an ardent tory says the tory lies need to stop then you know boris is in trouble then speaking about her 1st programme in the cities on catalonia caroline says the dignity and courage of laura and chill and most incredibly the lack of britain this was so moving i hope international pressure so far milk toast coming brought to bear on spain and that all 9 are released so the families are reunited thank you caroline now we've asked the new spanish government for a response to our 1st programme on catalonia featuring the spices of 2 of the independence campaigner sentence to long terms of imprisonment but to get to deceive a response when they reply we will cover their comment or their interview however reuters reported last month that spain socialist leader pedro sanchez was stepping up efforts to control separatist groups and party activities on the internet saying

that his government would not allow catalonia to set up a virtual independent republic online the kind of to stick of demonstrations in catalonia and indeed elsewhere has been the ability to mobilize large numbers of people into street demonstrations at very short notice using online communications online the catalan independence movement may have reigned supreme however this may be about to change with the catalan in minister of digital politics and public administration your nettle claiming that the madrid government are intent on a shipping extrajudicial powers to clamp down on social media traffic which alex who's speaking with him in barcelona. most of jordie people are welcome to the hour examine to thank you for inviting me. to your responsibilities in government and compass the digital column as well as the catalan civil service tell me a bit about how your position in catalonia is

a digital hub. in the europe and the world well catalonia has been over the past the. fabric of of spain the most industrialized area. in the spanish state we were the only part of spain and we need the natural motion like you know in england part of the world and now we want to be above not spain but of at least half of east south of europe and what successes can you point to is a killer statistic you can give us which will say how catalonia successful becoming this this digital hub. it will be i think not very objective if i said my self and i will use other figures according to financial times right now we the south of europe the most attracting region to invest in these new

additional economy. we holstein barcelona capital of at the lonia most important technological i mean right now in the world which is the mobile world congress. we also hold this massively well congress which is how we use these technologies in order to have better cities more efficiency these. cities which used technology to provide better service to its citizens having these 2 events. creating a brand it's also another policy which makes us strong in order to know to attract companies. in order to attract talent to get the money or all of the strive. to become a digital hub to become the focus of activity in the in southern europe takes place against the background of huge constitutional controversy of trouble. in catalonia

doesn't that political uncertainty doesn't inhibit economic plans of the impacts that you can see in the economy of the this agree it political controversy i think we see and certainly the around the world we've seen in the u.k. we've seen in paris all these demonstrations of the yellow shirts in the streets i think that that's not the problem the problem is whether we see realized or not a civilized society and i think that. we've shown the world that we have our own obviously controversies with the spanish authorities. trying to solve these controversies democratically in a way in a way that people from the business world understands that we've seen how we. as the 2nd most. cd that is in europe after

london according to mr which is a european index tourism has been growing which is also something which people when they see riots all over the world. you know this isn't as according as well on what they see on the t.v. but recently the indications that this appalling a clamp down on the social media intercepting these messages how concerned are you as digital minister that such a draconian clamp don't make me introduce or have to say i'm very concerned but not for the catalan citizens but for the whole spanish citizens this is a practice which is more similar to turkey. he brought a trainer to china to what it should be a utopian standard i haven't seen these in any european country so we are really concerned that the spanish authorities for trying to stop a democratic movement which is us using the social media as

a tool as everyone else the world the european regulations competition regularly since the freedom of expression aspects my ups and would be all the raider spanish temper or can the spanish say security reasons are an exception to normal standards actually what the spanish state who wants to do is that they they say that according to. not only national security reasons but according to the public all of the reasons or do even for economic interests they will be able to shut down the internet in any part of spain. without a lot of that just because the government will say so and it's just technically possible do you better place than most politicians to to know technically could you . cattle morning are from the digital expression well we will see whether they do it we've seen the words how are they doing it in turkey and other parts of the

world we think that this is something which should not be accepted by european laws actually we want to appeal against these the spanish government has announced regarding 2 very very important issues one is the freedom of the internet so that the access freedom of access to the internet which is something you cannot just. as you want. it. and should be respectful of the other principle which is the freedom of speech how do you see the cattle and crisis coming to a resolution and most observers. i can't believe that it can continue indefinitely in the process of still me majority opinion for independence and cattle and the majority opinion in the rest of spin against cattle and ambitions how can you see a resolution of the crisis and can there be any resolution before the freedom of

the the imprisoned independence supporters who symbol you carry in your lapel a previous minister is in jail just for promoting and making it possible for the people of other referendum well we think that this is a process which has been for almost 10 years right now. so the demand of people for their beginning for more autonomy was not an independence process at that again it was just a reminder of fiscal photo id for and definitely more. moral donna me say spain was actually. pulled down by the spanish government. with its constitutional court saying no to a state those new set of i don't know which had been voted by the parliament you

had been voted by the spanish. parliament where the spanish or any of these rights of the whole spaniards and he was approved by referendum that law that neal. which was not i mean the band and what addition was ruled out by the spanish was that after that people started bolting growing dependence parties and now we have a majority in the bottom and for independence and we've had the majority for some years and i think that will continue so i mean google doodle grow if the spanish government continues on its way of not wanting to see down and negotiate not wanting to sit down and having the. we've had a lot of use but we've won elections the coalition of parties not just your role you have the coalition of parties who support independence. the spanish elections in catalonia you've had a referendum on all the elections for many years and you still.

independence so what can be the resolution 2 to the cattle controversy you believe that the only solution is this has to be a political solution based on dialogue and that means that. insufficiently spain is having for the last 45 years a. lot of instability economically and internationally. if i have 4 elections they have approved only one budget in the last 4 years eve you don't think that without solving the problem they go with their one have to study. is that not understanding how important the lonia in the way. of for for spain understanding what the future of them has to be negotiating a solution maybe you can negotiate a solution for the next 1015 years the only way to solve that is through dialogue

through negotiation. broadly i can bring everybody to the negotiation table but what i can do is present you were for the other examine quick for for appearing on the sure no you know the drill from scotland whiskey scottish whiskey all it's got in the quick and then you you pass it over and everybody returns of negotiations thank you very much minister thank you so let's join us after the break when alex speaks with international commentator les castro. what politicians do something. they put themselves on the line. they get accepted or rejected. so when you want to present

a story for something i want to. watch it right. it's like a. dream to get. interested or was it belongs. to. welcome back the cattle an independent struggle has had a huge cut in sea and the social media world white one of the reasons for the informed reaction has been the rapid translations into english and the informed comments offered a marketable american list castille who in her time in catalonia has embraced the independence movement alex caught up with lace in barcelona. the list castro and the medical and. tell me what brought them to cross the atlantic

a mumble years agoo to experience cattle on life you know the 1st day that i walked into this office where i was looking for a job they found out that i spoke a tiny bit of cotland not very well and they never spoke to me in spanish again and it was it was a wonder they were so appreciative so welcoming and that speaking called on opened many doors for me people wanted to take me to their homes for parties to talk to me they took me on vacation they they treated me as one more person in the family and i felt like my efforts at speaking called on in the 1980 s. as an american was one of the pieces that made that happen it was that was a special thing there weren't very many people who did that and that was surprising because in the united states you know when you go to the united states you have to speak english everybody does and nobody thinks all that's a wonderful you speak english you just take it for granted and here that's not the case so i saw this give you a fairly unique insight religious say because you're an american coming to

catalonia but you're willing to speak the language so it gives you a very good vantage point to assess the question as catalonia nation and this ticks off the nation of catalonia but that's a really interesting question and it's something that i noticed right from the beginning i had travelled a fair bit in spain and i had been to madrid i had been the elysee i had been to in the most here and other places and there were a number of things that were different here there's a feeling about it there is a feeling of identity is the interconnectedness of people most of the big. new lives because you went back to a bit to pursue this highly successful career in the web design even computer. bucket isolation of the way. and then returned. to catalunya. 2011 so it's quite interesting us and i would say there will be someone with

a huge knowledge of castle or other many people of different nationalities i think you get the most severely can that be when you strip for the. normal a lot of these people from other countries part of this the grassroots national movement somebody like me who is an american i've lived practically all my life the united states except for 10 or 15 years here can also become on and be considered for the national board of the cop on national assembly which is a it's a lobby it's not a political it's not it's not an elected office volunteer group. is elected who should go it was a little bit that's true but it's what i mean it's not you know it's not an elective as there are government of government yes a governmental body but in terms of your own contribution to the national assembly this grassroots movement and clearly the your expertise of the. online masters has not been

a big influence in the the bulging growth of the castle and independence movement the fact that so much more this possible in terms of causes for the with the democratization that comes with the online process is that we same people can absolutely absolutely i mean it wouldn't we wouldn't be here if it weren't for twitter and facebook and particularly what's up lately and telegram and signal and whatever else you know is coming now but you've also been a very articulate voice for the cattle and independence movement. in the media world wait again you have an advantage because you know as a native english speaker you're able to translate from the catalan and and give a view as to fight your lameduck at this is also helpful in terms of being able to spot your mesh and the catalan movement still gives a set. degree of dish maybe you know i think it's there's good things about it and

bad things about it i mean the fact is i'm not couple and i'm not from here and so sometimes it feels like it's not my place on the other hand i speak up on very well and spanish and i've lived here for a very long time and so i've seen all those things not all of them but but many of the things that make up this process and it's complicated you know i've met practically all the people who are not practically i've met old people who are in jail right now i know them personally. and i have other american friends who say you know i've never met the president of the united states but i've met all of the current all of the couple of the presidents how is that that couple in society is more accessible is that because we're americans somehow you know that makes us you know special. i'm not i'm not exactly sure. what i do know is that. that this community aspect of cafagna the importance that people put on

talking and on debating and on deciding what they want to do and on listening to people that's very special and that's something that that should be celebrated and taken advantage of the person most passionate tragedy for the name people involved of course the history teacher is a great rallying call for the for the castle national movement. very seldom in history. substantial sentences of politicians what's to the benefit of those who are imposing the sentences the general rule is still benefit of those who are incarcerated who should impression where do you think this is going to take the castle our national mood. moore's there's many things about it like you say it's a tragedy and i think about those people in jail they're just regular people you know they're politicians who had a mandate to have a referendum and the fact that they've been jailed for sedition violence an

overthrow of the government it's just ridiculous and it really threw out of course the violence wasn't established in the in the charges which i suppose is quite interesting because if you look across most democracies there and sedition the something that has to be these be associated with violence the very very few countries apart from spain sedition as an offensive self and so a lot of medical freedom of speech would be preeminent to work over all things and so the they said that one of the reasons that they originally accused them of rebellion is so that they could keep them in jail because with just charging them with sedition they couldn't and so the rebellion charges which involve. according to the spanish penal code you know violence real violent. with weapons and that's stipulated in the statutes could be used to keep them in jail until they were convicted the statute described sedition as any kind of resistance

using force or pressure against the government that kind of definition were all seditious all of us i certainly am because i resist with pressure things that my government does all the time there are plenty of things that i disagree with so if people are in jail for 9 years for that that means that there is no democracy in spain because spain will simply. apply that definition of sedition to anybody that it doesn't like and that's a step to shame and that's a that's a travesty but that is not the point when you have this contrast between popular opinion democratic opinion political opinion and general reads by the podium nature of these sentences the question is still will merely speaking go against a state of the government can possibly be considered a criminal debacle see or that's a new one. the government so you look at the institutions of european union have

been pretty cool towards catalunya yeah and that kind of gives you an idea about if they're just cool about democracy because they certainly been up in arms about hong kong about democratic supporters there they're complain a lot about democracy in venezuela in any other place besides couple why because spain has a lot of influence within the european union and they don't want to be on spain's bad side but if castle in democracy is inconvenient what does that tell you about the prospects for success of in. popular support from sleet into success against institutional opposition well there's a thing about people in general i think all around the world and. but they're not really willing to live. without freedom we're sort of waiting to see what

was going to happen with this trial you know were the judges really going to be honest and impartial and when they handed down 10 year sentences for demonstrating or for holding a referendum we realize that there was no justice in the spanish court for a couple anya but after these sentences it becomes so much more basic we want independence because we want to live in an democracy we want to be able to have freedom of expression freedom of assembly freedom of political. you know manifestation and that is not allowed today jordan who shot them drove the scientists were civil leaders i have been in jail for the last 2 years and will be in jail for 7 years or more because they participated in a nonviolent demonstration i was there i saw it it did nothing except tell people to go home and they are now jailed for sedition i would just say that for the right to speech. freedom of assembly freedom to let you go to government

to come to play and that is that doing to prepare you to independence all it takes the tea tax. to to move things would not do they should have pretty well that's a good question what will it take to get spain to sit down and talk which is the demand of most people and i don't know you know spain is very very stubborn about couple on the 01 because it doesn't want to lose 20 percent of its g.d.p. and 2 because of pride there's definitely an emotional element involved spain cannot stand the idea that cough on don't want to be part of spain anymore really it's hurtful understand that it's a little bit like a divorce in that sense but that's not that's not reason to impel them to stay. violence he thought be hailed the circumstances we have. i think so yeah

anybody who took place took part in that october 1st referendum knows the strength of that strategy and the strength also of the common people working together to make that happen you know that's what we will do again we will join together to insist that we have a right to be heard we have a right to speak to choose our own future and that future for you live in catalonia right to american sports the future for us right now it's incumbent on the absolutely i live in the middle of barcelona with my 3 children and. i love it here you know people call me called on which i think is a great compliment i feel very much at home here i feel a part of this community. that's you know a wonderful thing for. anyone perhaps a lafayette of the catalogue revel that is quite a compliment thank you but to to do my part to the future of life is that you will

the. the quake's a loving cup of scots girl if you whiskey should love bug out i wouldn't dream of getting past that word in your catalog thank you very much wow that's a treat i love whiskey. in the weeks following the spanish election there is still no sign of a breakthrough in the standoff between catalonia and the madrid government where the catalan independence party is gaining ground and the extreme right wing making political progress in the rest of spain socialist prime minister sanchez may feel that he has little room to maneuver in changing tack from his hard line towards both catalan ambitions and with regards to political prisoners however this week in the news that the largest independence party the e r c are suggesting that they might be open to supporting a science as government in the cortez if the prime minister is open to discussions on independence we will watch developments with interest certainly there seems to

be few more attractive options to real dialogue it is difficult to see how continuing use of the spanish judicial system is going to quieten rather further inflame independent sentiment and it is difficult to prosecute the feelings of the people with any hope of success meanwhile the independence movement has its own strategic issues to grasp can the venous independence parties continue to present a united front and avoid major splits on strategy and above all can the cause hold on to its price international reputation as a nonviolent movement in the face of heightened political atmosphere of one marchers to the cause languishing in jail in this regard if indeed the spanish authorities really have in mind a social media content of the kind only previously deployed in turkey in china it seems unlikely to break the catalan spirit however it would subjects lead to further international reputational damage would report in any developments in next

week's program join us next time when alex interview some of the people rallying to the catalan cause we take the temperature on the streets as catalonia debates its strategy for nationhood but until then for me alex it although there sure it's good bye for now and we hope. all next week. is your media a reflection of reality. in

a world transformed. what will make you feel safe. isolation or community. are you going the right way or are you being led. direct. what is true what is faith. in a world corrupted you need to descend. to join us in the depths. for a mate in the shallows. the u.s. house of representatives has wrapped up its 1st round of impeachment hearings against president trump but it's not done with trying to oust him with new impeachment proceedings ahead is impeachment of viable strategy against the president.

yeah them belong to me so. it's all of them. can be stuck in the middle of the screen because lucy disconnects he thought the. fish are good for him for much is the deal for normal which. donna suspects will and don's of the. message will. be the infant daughter of one who could not you know be looking in on the.

awkward. discardable much of the baby. french president doubles down on his criticism of nato i think his brain. could be a wake up call for the military block. a rally in the french capital to raise awareness of violence against women is itself violence as one feminist group clashes with another we speak to one of the women who took part. i was in the rage we went to this demonstration because we wanted to defend women's rights the violence against women the protest raises questions at demonstration with the slogan all of us turns out not to be for all of us at all. believe you stop private t.v. operator says it's been ordered to take off the spot a shelf from next month the country's foremost.