allegations of the un special rapporteur. by the media in this country and indeed in the european union there's been lots of interest in the developing world well to be honest with you i think part of it is that people simply can't believe that what's we're reporting is true i think believe you in other words yes but i also think that about a year ago i probably wouldn't have believed that this is possible what's going on due to in the us what we see here is a person whose due process rights for 10 years have been violated severely and systematically in all jurisdictions and all legal proceedings against him at every stage of this proceeding and that's something that's very difficult to comprehend that that's possible in democratic states rule of law states is that the u.k. sweden in the us and will acquittal you can't rely on any authority to protect your rights and this constant threats to be extradited to a country where you face

a secret trial based on secret evidence you know judged by the jury elected in a population where 85 percent of the population works for cia n.s.a. deal d. or deal s. around alexander and mr jinnah the the infamous espionage court. duty created by the same judge as every single other national security defendant in recent years. this is not going to be a fair trial you know that so if you're in this situation this constant threat to be extradited there and then to receive a draconian punishment of 175 years or maybe to reduce it to 120 in prison in the supermax prison and we know what the conditions are like there this is this crosses the line of cruel inhuman and degrading treatment that's not just my opinion that's a consistent opinion of myself my mandate my predecessors everybody that's actually

seriously deals with that and that's the threat scenario he faced 4 years is not being taken seriously he's been ridiculed by the press he's been mobbed by the various authorities he's been accused of all kinds of things but not given a fair chance to actually defend himself we have a swedish proceeding that is in a preliminary investigation stage for 9 years well yes the media care in fairness to them said this is nothing to do with the revelations of war crimes people have seen the video that julius and his organization released of the cold blooded killing of journalists is not about that it's about the sweden. allegations and i understand you claim there are 50 perceived process violations by the swedish authorities in this case yes well i am all eyes meticulously of all the documents that were made available to me including the original 1st questioning of police reports that the of the alleged victims there all the the email correspondence that

has leaked between the crown prosecution service and the swedish prosecution service internally e-mails of the swedish police where they adapted witness statements without consulting the witnesses in order to be able to reopen the case once it was 1st closed so i had a lot of questions as. about 50 questions where i said these are factors that in in my view prove that there was to do the due process violations and the swedish authorities had nothing to say to basically answer to no one page letter saying we have no further observations now we're talking about the state responsibility for potential torture and ill treatment so responsibility means that your response ability you're able to respond to questions that are being asked so if a state cannot respond the refuses to respond to the questions of a un special rapporteur that's been mandated by states to monitor their compliance

with the treaties they have signed then i'm seriously concerned about where we're heading well we're amidst a general election campaign here there broke us in restrictions but you mentioned there the c.p.s. which of course was run at the time by the now shadow bricks and secretary. and when you talk about u.k. authorities responses to your concerns of course the tories are the incumbent what has been the reaction from british authorities to your report there right now in effect has been psychologically tortured i visited tunis and more than 6 months ago it was a month of may 2019 about 4 weeks after his arrest and the 2 medical doctors and this is all been out there i mean it was clear concerns that he showed all the symptoms that are typical for psychological torture that the pressure on him needed to be alleviated quickly and both doctors said otherwise his state of health will

enter a downward spiral very quickly and so the u.k. authorities did not respond for 5 months after him at that it and i made an urgent appeal for urgent measures to protect the innocent as health and rights and dignity . on the same day i received a tweet then foreign secretary jeremy hunt accusing me of interfering with judicial authorities in the u.k. . and basically claiming you know that the right to interfere with justices but then he invited me to conduct that visit and to report he is my counterpart so he had to expect the report now if it turned out negative and then also obviously claiming that it could have left the embassy at any time to which then i responded in a tweet which i would not usually do but when a foreign secretary all they can do in 5 months is to send a tweet to my official report or i answered in a tweet that in my view he was about as free to leave the embassy as someone

sitting in a rubber boat in a shark well now other people are saying that the world is witnessing the slow motion execution of his i'm going to visit him before his next court hearing will be able to well i have to say it it's actually exceptional that a special rapporteur on torture can visit individual prisoners usually with his visit entire countries obviously have to cover $190.00 plus countries so it's difficult for me to to repeat individual visits until it's absolutely indispensable and nano it is up to the authorities according to the convention against torture article 12 they have an unconditional obligation to investigate promptly and impartially as soon as there is so called reasonable grounds to believe that an act of torture could have been committed but that doesn't need to be evidence if the un special rapporteur on porters conclusion is not reasonable grounds i don't know what is all relevant u.k. authorities reject all your allegations there are now being allegations about

a judge involved in the case judge or both not that she has links to the u.k. ministry of defense her husband or both not one s.c. strategy a company in which a co-director was the former boss of m i 6 john scarlett basically people that concern to in the wiki leaks cables are julian as and over some of the release of. what did you make of these connections well i mean here just as in sweden every single step in the judicial proceedings beat the bill violation proceedings or the extradition that the prisons have been tainted by violations of his due process rights one of them is that you have or a sieved surely no actual violations well i think you know absolutely there have been violations of his due process rights and severe violations he has not had access to his legal documents for months how can you ask a defendant in an extradition trial to respond to the u.s. and that meant that he has not been able to read well any excuse the authorities

give here saying if you're innocent at a computer in jail you could bring the western world's intelligence agencies down that is that just doesn't work legal i don't think you need a computer to read an indictment how is it denied paper documents as well yes well it seems that now his lawyers have been able to negotiate that but we're now 6 months into his detention he has served his entire sentence for the bail of a vision without access to his legal documents. his swedish lawyer when he visited him a couple of months back from stockholm flying in from stockholm had a 2 hour slot reportedly to see him and unison was brought to him with one hour and 45 minutes to lay so he had 15 minutes to explain to him a swedish legal document of 300 pages but could not leave it with him and no translation to him so. how is that rule of law well of course in court he said it

was driven sure what was going on but if your report raised eyebrows europol will have raised eyebrows especially through an extent in the way that you talked about the british media scene you appeared to be saying the part of the psychological torture of julian assange has been committed by. newspapers like the guardian of course of newspaper that are getting supplied information to they recently had an editorial and supported your innocence but they said you don't need to like him why do you think that newspapers that received information resides continue to emphasize the fact that you may not have to like his character it's very difficult for me to understand how the mainstream media has such an important role for the integrity of institutions of state institutions as a 4th estate how they can not be interested in this case i can say that i have

offered to b.b.c. for example to do a heart talk with them so i don't have to agree with me you see if you don't agree with me do a heart talk with me ask me all the difficult questions and expose me if i'm wrong but if i'm right then you need to report on this i represent a u.n. mandate if i ask official questions according to diplomatic protocol and states refuse to engage with them and that they no longer respond to my questions which is sweep everything under the carpet well. then what does that mean we have a huge black hole where there is no longer any control over how power is being exercised but what will it mean for britain's standing in the world of indeed judaism as dies in belmarsh prison as i say what don't far from here after the un is warning the british government i think it was an absolute be an absolute tragedy 1st of all for june the self and for the cause he stands for but also for the

british society and their system and the credibility of the british state as a rule of law state that we also know that the reasons the us wants to extradite him for is a classic case of a political offense and the u.k. law prohibits extradition for political offenses the european convention against human for human rights would would would prohibit it the convention against torture would prohibit it the international covenant on civil and political rights prohibits it there is no discussion that this extradition could lawfully go forward so in my view this whole detention now at present has no legal basis we invite the us and best of london ambassador johnson on the show see if we can refute what you're saying special thank you cannot after the break the foreign minister of ecuador graham long who helped grant julian assange just phylum of his embassy in london on the so-called slow motion british execution of the wiki leaks founder as well as is evidence of a defacto 2019 british backed military coup in the lithium rich nation of bolivia

call this a balkan we have a body of going underground. we still got hundreds of times and indeed prudence needs. you're over there and you're cool with these critters and i knew you. could want to think about me think about it. canadian each of them to look at him as though. you didn't have them to eat too much haha get to be a good tone crew from the author to get those people to fail phenomenon good to go until in the fall they'd soon tire one next time you don't come follow through the

marco quitting. when official for russia is not booked sump is doing the probably what something is not doing for us all see the contrary to his predecessors he did not stop any war so probably it is it is a little bit see for a more predictable in these perspectives on the other hand all the world is changing it is achievable in force and come on it's not supposedly mr trump who is making the world the dangerous place he is just a symptom of the change that's a. good

politicians to do something to. put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president or injury. or some want to. have to be right to be for us as a white woman for 3 of them or can't be good that. i'm interested in the waters of our. good morning. welcome back 60 doctors are written to the british government warning that wiki leaks is australian founder julian assange could die in a british prison as he awaits extradition to the cia's home state of virginia of a revealing u.s. war crimes in iraq before his imprisonment in britain he was granted political asylum by the south american nation of ecuador he was in the country's embassy in london for nearly 7 years joining me now from washington d.c.

is the ecuadorian foreign minister who helped to give him asylum graham long thanks so much from a foreign minister for coming on the show your country gave asylum of course to assad i want to get on do events in your country in your hemisphere but your reaction to 60 doctors warning that the sons may die for revealing u.s. war crimes these are tragic news and ongoing injustice for julian assange and i think all this. proves that ecuador was right all along. we're going to sondra was . running the risk of facing what he's facing now ecuador gave him asylum for fear of persecution for his activities as a publisher at the head of we can leaks. i remember actually interacting with british officials and british officials telling me that we were deluded that it had nothing to do with we collect nothing to do with freedom expression nothing to do with publishing it it had everything to do with the swedish case. and now we're

seeing that we were right all along it had nothing to do with the swedish case and everything to do with this possibility of an extradition to the united states and i think it's an important global cause that we must all defend freedom for julian sanchez yes nowadays even the new york times and the guardian supporters do you care to mention who those british officials were that was saying you were deluded about. grand jury in the united states that was going to maybe imprison a son for 175 years in america generally speaking all our interaction with british diplomats with the british state. that their argument was that there was an european arrest warrant that he should go and be questioned in sweden we of course argued that he could be questioned by sweden that should be done in in the ecuador embassy that ecuador was abiding by the international rules of asylum and there

were lots of off the record conversations but every time they wanted to bring it back to the swedish case we were very suspicious of this we thought that there was something behind that and we were proven right it just shows that it was all about we can leaks from the start condemnation of crimes against humanity and wrongdoings of powerful nations in the world do you know if you are embassy in london was being bugged when you were the foreign minister of ecuador you probably read that according to police in spain your embassy in london has been bugged by a cia linked companies like to a man called david morale as of undercover global. was it bugged when you were foreign minister did this come about when lenin merino was elected president of your country i don't have evidence as to whether it was bugged when i was a foreign minister but we were certainly we felt very much that we were. diplomatic personnel was living in or working in an embassy under siege i mean certainly we

felt absolutely. we felt spied on we felt observed we felt surrounded it was very very hostile working. for ecuador and diplomats of course for mr sunshine itself now we know we have the proof as you just said that the embassy was bugged. when this started exactly i don't have the exact date i don't have the exact evidence but certainly we have a lot of hypotheses and since. missions of course julian assange helped edward snowden escape u.s. authorities for blowing the whistle on mass surveillance and amidst all of that the bolivian president of the time even more as his plane was brought down in europe trying to get a hold of edward snowden evo morales is gone your reaction to the coup d'etat or as british the british government says the proper judicial removal of president evo

morales of bolivia or you can get much more of a coup than what happened in libya you know middle class uprising turning violent a police mutiny and then the army the military century saying mr president resign that's pretty much a textbook coup and i think it was prepared i think they was you know they were ever more alice had a lot of enemies you just mentioned some of the intimidation he was a victim of many opportunity came the oas ran i think a. i'm a mission of electoral observers that had a mission and that was to discredit the. believe in elections the think tank the center of economic policy. the economic the the center for economic and policy research that i work for has just published a paper that i've coauthored actually showing that there were no evidence was

provided by the oas to suggest that there were fraud in elections or as i said that narrative completely at odds with obviously the organization of american states but also obviously nature governments like britain like washington who say it was evil morale is for acting on guns to do usually do you think one of the one of the context we should understand the coup is that bolivia has the largest sources of lithium which is used in the every phone battery every laptop battery in the world i think there are a number. elements certainly the model is government was always nationalist and sovereign it defended its national resources it nationalized its national resources particularly its gas resources. years ago so i mean lithium may have been an element. but i think more generally this bolivia. morales government was a part of what was often known as the pink tide of left this government in latin

america during the 1st decade and a half of the 21st century and if you look around in the hemisphere all those governments have been heavily punished by. you know industrial states that sort of countries from the global north for having dead to question the germany that they were subjected to few look around you know brazil with lula's incarceration ecuador with korea has exile in all sorts of pressures against the left in general in argentina and now the coup in bolivia you'll see that. you know i think the elites and their international allies and some international powers were waiting for the right moment to to to hit back and to make sure that governments that were dosed sile and that were acting you know within the sort of traditional. monro ism of the united states ally

and to the national security doctrine of united states and following the call of sort of bilateral foreign policy as opposed to wanting to integrate and having regional integration having more unity in south america in particular those governments and those leaders being the victim of serious attacks and the latest example is the coup in bolivia goes a songes also an ecuadorian citizen he was given a good dorian citizenship tell me about what you characterize the situation. in your country today because lim arena said you know it was not only as being a problem for ecuador it was your government's refusal to allow the cia base in mentor bay what we've seen over the last 2 and a half years in ecuador is a very sharp u. turn. the government is actually governing now with all the advisers all the people who were on his presidential opponent the contender in the elections in 2017

elections his contender all these advisors all those people are now the people who are in cabinet posts so what it was really done a 180 degree u. turn and governing with the elites with the right with. you know essentially moved away from his electoral promises from his electoral program and. there are a number of ways it has been expressed through economic policy through the i.m.f. coming back in and also as you mentioned through sort of foreign policy and national security doctrine and the do the job the geopolitical behavior of ecuador so granting an airstrip for. u.s. military and the sacred galapagos islands it's quite shocking after having been the largest military base u.s. military base in the region and banning it actually in the 2008 constitution the ecuadoran constitution bans foreign military presence on our territory if you look at every single issue in the western hemisphere in latin america you know ecuador

moving away from a much more sort of nonaligned foreign policy with diversifying its ties with the world to what is happening now essentially just you know trying to be try to be the best people in the us in the us both in the class a century trying to be. president trumps best friend that's how i would characterize ecuador right now just finally you mentioned the galapagos islands of course the environmental repercussions of that was shocked many people it's known for charles darwin but you mention the i.m.f. just finally you championed chinese investment in your country do you think because then in merino as joe's in the i.m.f. as is learned he will end the way that arguably so many developing country leaders have ended. basically having to be on the run because once you take money from the i.m.f. you lose your government there's a limit in those applied

a very aggressive new liberal structural adjustment program from not quite from day one but soon after. coming to power. and he's decided to do this with the company and of the i.m.f. so a $4200000000.00 loan with a lot of conditionality the same ones that the disastrous. recipes of the 1990 s. that caused so much economic instability and chaos in latin america be repeated now in latin america by the i.m.f. in ecuador and elsewhere racially and we're seeing people fight back because people have lived through something better you know 10 years 15 years depending on which country that american ecuador was for 10 years during the presidency of i 5 corridor where we had very healthy growth rates with a lot of redistribution reduction of poverty reduction of inequality without the disaster recipe book of the i.m.f. in fact without the near liberal austerity policies so people have been through

some experience something different and now that the i.m.f. has come back with this kind of age old fundamentalism of of you know slashing wages and making people poor and all that the balance the books people are fighting back so we just had a wave of protests in ecuador in the month of october i think the largest protest possibly in ecuador in history certainly in my generation. president having to flee the capital city to where your key you know and basically being rescued by the military and he. it was very very close call as to whether his government with great survive on the very briefly the do you think glimmering new as you say it to flee the capital he will finish his full term in office oh we'll have to see what happens and whether he still stubbornly tries to push these these very aggressive poor or pro-business economic reforms he's just tried to do it again now through parliament but if he does them like he did it like he did the 1st wave by decree

he's likely to have people out on the street protesting protesting these measures but certainly people in ecuador that in latin america are seeing it chile we're seeing it we're seeing in argentina through elections fortunately up or testing these nearly broke packages voted by the i.m.f. which doesn't seem to have learned the lessons of history and is just repeat. the same old repeating the same old mistake something like today it isn't my fault of our minister thank you thank you very much and that's it for the show will be back on monday when u.s. president donald trump who backs the alleged military coup against evo morales is welcome to love them for doggedly brain dead nato summit building people judged by social media and don't forget to subscribe to like john.

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